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Posted: 12/3/2020 5:58:07 AM EDT
[#1]
Do what you want and are comfortable with.
We got forced to switch to RMRs on our duty weapon so I had mine milled. I bought a non-MOS Glock 45 to carry off duty and had it milled the same and got the same RMR to use. This way, I carry pretty much the same off duty and on duty and am used to it. |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 6:16:13 AM EDT
[#2]
I’ve heard this issue online but I’ve not ever seen it referenced in a court case. A good shoot is a good shoot.
I use custom stuff. I shoot better with it, I enjoy it, and the more I enjoy it the more I shoot with it. So I get better with it. I don’t get the idea of carrying something cheap or not nice on the off chance that if you need it and it’s taken you never get it back. My Baer wears ivory grips and was not cheap but shoots well and I like it. If I lose it after needing it I will go buy another the same day. Same with custom parts. Buy what you like and practice with it, carry proudly |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 10:53:00 AM EDT
[#3]
I'll start with the idea that you pistol is reliable and no upgrades needed to insure that.
1. Sights. Sights you can use in all weather and light conditions. 2. Grip. Be sure the grip aides you in keeping control of your pistol. Under any conditions. 3. Holster. Be sure the holster you choose to use keeps you pistol where you want it till you need it and is easy to get the pistol out of when you want it out. 4. Ammo. Be sure your pistol is reliable with the ammo you choose to carry. My carry pistol(s) have RMRs/Holosun red dots and back up sights on them. The magazine in the pistol is a standard capacity mag. for that pistol (easier to conceal with the shorter magazine) but the back up (IWB pouch) has an extended base on it for more rounds (it's even a magazine for the full sized pistol version of my compact with an extended base, so even more rounds). I was completely satisfied with my pistols grip/texture and sort of laughed about people complaining that model needed something else to improve the grip. One day at the range is was so hot/humid that I sweated to the point that it was getting that slick/slimy feel to it and I noticed I was having to reacquire my grip position every 2 or 3 shots. I went home and ordered a talon grip panel for it. No issues like that since. Good luck with your pistol/upgrades. When you consider the costs of the upgrades, put that down side by side on a piece of paper with what you feel your life is worth. Life will win out over the pistol/upgrade costs. |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 12:57:36 PM EDT
[#4]
I wouldn't put a trigger that is any lighter on it or engrave "death to all that oppose me" on the slide but otherwise do what you want. Personally I like stock because I own multiples and don't want to have to customize each one.
Best upgrades are a good light, quality holster and belt plus a red dot. |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 1:53:26 PM EDT
[#5]
Yea, that was my main thought too. Like I said, only really interested in getting an aftermarket slide so I don't have to get my slide milled. Stock frame, Glock OEM slide parts kit.
Good to hear it's not as bad a idea as a lot of the old guys I hang around 
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Posted: 12/4/2020 4:47:18 PM EDT
[#6]
Glock 19? Perfection already.
Add a quality light. If you are willing to put in the work and expense then adding an optic is an increasingly good option. Other than that I wouldn't waste a bunch of money on it. What makes the biggest difference is a quality holster suited for your method of carry. And a good belt. |
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Posted: 12/5/2020 9:22:44 PM EDT
[#7]
I hear the gen 5 trigger is the best glock trigger so far. I run a gen three with a glock minus connector, maritime spring cups, glock night sights, wolf comp return spring.
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Posted: 12/28/2020 2:52:28 AM EDT
[#8]
I feel that a good shoot is a good shoot and a bad shoot is a bad shoot. I think the only way it may matter is if you do something like alter the trigger pull then have a negligent discharge or something similar
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Posted: 1/14/2021 4:59:52 AM EDT
[#9]
Carry what you shoot well and are confident with including 100% reliability
I’m a Glock guy on and off duty and I shoot about once a week sometimes more. When I’m off it’s usually a G43X or G48 with a spare mag (G19 with a X300U in the truck console safe) At work it’s a G45 with X300U or G34 ( I work plain clothes so I’m not stuck carrying our issued G17 since I prefer my Dawson sights) |
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Posted: 1/14/2021 11:40:28 AM EDT
[#10]
Every now and then I run into someone who preaches against carrying with modifications, but I carry a G19.4 (MOS) with an RMR, X300U and a bunch of different aftermarket parts including trigger. I shoot better with these upgrades. The way I look at, if you can justify any changes you've made, and havent negated any safety features, you should be fine. About the only thing I wouldn't do is put a back plate with any writing on it that could be construed negatively, or a punisher skull for example.
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Posted: 1/16/2021 8:55:23 PM EDT
[#11]
OP, what you propose is sound, so long as you vett it for reliability.
Don't stress over legalities. Aftermarket slide is nothing that could be used against you. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 2:58:23 PM EDT
[#12]
I think the legality parts comes into play after the shoot. First thing after you have called 911 and cops are on scene and everything is deescalated shut your mouth. Only thing you should say is I was the shooter, I was in fear of my life, I am willing to give a full statement and cooperate in any way I can, and you request to have legal representation present to answer any questions or give your statement. Everything you say will be used against you in a court of law not in your favor. So you say I accidentally shot or I did not mean to do this that looks like negligence. So if you find yourself in a shooting and survive your survival depends on your statement as well. So SHUT YOUR MOUTH and wait till you are not cranked up on adrenaline or coming down from the adrenaline high. Do not talk to your friends, wife, or family about it immediately afterwards keep to the facts I was involved in a defensive shooting, I am ok, I love you, and I will tell you more when I can.
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Posted: 1/19/2021 5:52:05 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think the legality parts comes into play after the shoot. First thing after you have called 911 and cops are on scene and everything is deescalated shut your mouth. Only thing you should say is I was the shooter, I was in fear of my life, I am willing to give a full statement and cooperate in any way I can, and you request to have legal representation present to answer any questions or give your statement. Everything you say will be used against you in a court of law not in your favor. So you say I accidentally shot or I did not mean to do this that looks like negligence. So if you find yourself in a shooting and survive your survival depends on your statement as well. So SHUT YOUR MOUTH and wait till you are not cranked up on adrenaline or coming down from the adrenaline high. Do not talk to your friends, wife, or family about it immediately afterwards keep to the facts I was involved in a defensive shooting, I am ok, I love you, and I will tell you more when I can. This. Don't say a damn thing. You might think you have all the data, but you don't. Your mind will make up things to fill voids, but it will seem like it all makes sense and is real. Then, 72 hours later when your brain has processed all the data, you'll realize you said some things that weren't correct, and now you look like a liar or someone who can't make up his mind. There might be someone there after the event who tries to act like a friend and just wants to make you comfy so you'll talk. They want you to make a statement so they can get their jobs "done". Please don't. No matter what. I say this, knowing it is much easier to say than it ever would be to do if I ever - God forbid - find myself in this situation. 
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Posted: 1/20/2021 11:39:39 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve heard this issue online but I’ve not ever seen it referenced in a court case. A good shoot is a good shoot. Unfortunately, this isn’t how it always works in the real world. Overzealous prosecutors will try and find any reason to fry you, no matter how justifiable the shooting might have been. |
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Posted: 1/24/2021 12:12:58 AM EDT
[#15]
I mainly carry a G23, the only internal change I made was a Ghost Connector. I just got a laser/light combo the O-Light Baldr mini. Really like it, had a crimson trace rail master pro before & that was a POS. I've also got a Technaclip on it. I put the grip plug in as well and painted the rear sights with green glo-on & the front with red glow paint from a different mfg'er as I couldn't find glo-on in any other colors at the time I ordered. One other thing that's not really a change to the pistol but to the mag is the X-Grip adapter to hold a G22 mag without the gap.
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Posted: 1/24/2021 12:22:24 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unfortunately, this isn’t how it always works in the real world. Overzealous prosecutors will try and find any reason to fry you, no matter how justifiable the shooting might have been. Do you have any real world examples? |
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Posted: 1/24/2021 7:57:38 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Unfortunately, this isn’t how it always works in the real world. Overzealous prosecutors will try and find any reason to fry you, no matter how justifiable the shooting might have been. Please post links. Like I said, I’ve heard it online but never read it anywhere official |
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Posted: 1/24/2021 8:29:58 AM EDT
[#18]
The only issue I've ever seen with any after market parts following a shooting was an inscription Don't do this
Otherwise if it is a part to make your gun more accurate or effective, do it. As others have said don't say anything above "i was afraid for my life and defended myself. I'll answer everything else with my attorney present. " |
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Posted: 1/24/2021 11:23:45 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only issue I've ever seen with any after market parts following a shooting was an inscription Don't do this Otherwise if it is a part to make your gun more accurate or effective, do it. As others have said don't say anything above "i was afraid for my life and defended myself. I'll answer everything else with my attorney present. " That cop had more issues than that stupid dust cover. An attorney saying shit to the papers is different than getting a conviction because of two words on a dust cover. Would I put stupid shit like that on a gun? Nope, I am not 12 years old, or a moron, but convicting someone of murder because of it is wrong and even more stupid. Nothing in the elements of the crime say anything about decorations on a gun. |
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Posted: 1/24/2021 6:14:09 PM EDT
[#20]
The story of Harold Fish in Arizona some years back. Used a 10MM to defend himself and went south from there.
https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/terrifying-and-true-harold-fish-story https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/guns-appearances-matter |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 1:33:28 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The story of Harold Fish in Arizona some years back. Used a 10MM to defend himself and went south from there. https://www.buckeyefirearms.org/terrifying-and-true-harold-fish-story https://armedcitizensnetwork.org/guns-appearances-matter Sounds more like a prosecutor problem than a gun "appearance" problem. A 10mm 1911 is not unreasonable to use for self defense. The 10mm was developed by the fbi specifically for self defense. |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 3:39:20 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sounds more like a prosecutor problem than a gun "appearance" problem. A 10mm 1911 is not unreasonable to use for self defense. The 10mm was developed by the fbi specifically for self defense. The FBI didn't develop the 10mm, Jeff Cooper did. The FBI adopted AFTER the 1986 Miami incident. Then they realized the females & smaller agents couldn't handle the recoil. S&W along with Winchester then developed the 40cal after the FBI requested a 10mm downloaded, but even then the FBI didn't request a new caliber, just wanted a 10mm round with less recoil. |
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Posted: 1/25/2021 5:43:36 PM EDT
[#23]
The only aftermarket part I would use on a Glock is night sights and a WML.
Otherwise, they've been perfect through five generations  .
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Posted: 1/25/2021 5:47:50 PM EDT
[#24]
Basically, the only "upgrades" that are "somewhat lawyer proof" are those that you would find on your local PD's firearms. Restated: night sights and a light. It can even be argued that you spent extra money to be "safer" by being able to see your sights and identify your target.
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Posted: 1/26/2021 7:29:24 PM EDT
[#25]
I upgraded my carry G19 MOS and G17 MOS with suppressor sights, FCD RMR mount, Type2 RM06, and Kagwerks raised slide stops to prevent my support palm from activating/holding down the stock slide stop.
Ive been wondering about upgrading triggers because Glocks are terrible by every way you can measure a trigger, but the Gen5's are much more palatable than previous gems for me, so I don't think about it much these days. Mod it to make it work better for you, not to be cool and you'll be golden. |
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Posted: 1/29/2021 5:34:07 PM EDT
[#26]
Night sights and a light. It’s dark half the day, and bad guys like the dark.
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Posted: 2/2/2021 8:14:07 AM EDT
[#27]
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Posted: 2/2/2021 11:41:07 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you have any real world examples? Yes. Study deadly force law, there are countless examples, way too in depth to describe here. Masad Ayoob is a good resource, as is Andrew Branca. I also have a close friend who was involved in a self defense shooting and was put through the ringer by the prosecution. His gun, the ammo he used, and other details that a lot of people would consider completely irrelevant, were placed under extreme scrutiny during his trial. The concept that “a good shoot is a good shoot” is a fallacy in the real world, and to believe otherwise is purely ignorant. |
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Posted: 2/3/2021 1:27:59 AM EDT
[#29]
So was your friend convicted because of the gun, bullets or parts involved in the shooting, or was he found not guilty in trial because of the elements of the shooting under the law?
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Posted: 2/3/2021 9:21:01 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So was your friend convicted because of the gun, bullets or parts involved in the shooting, or was he found not guilty in trial because of the elements of the shooting under the law? Not guilty. But that doesn't mean that specific physical equipment properties are irrelevant in a court of law. It just takes one sharp prosecutor with an agenda, coupled with a not so great defense attorney, to convict you of murder based on evidence that common sense says shouldn't matter. |
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Posted: 2/3/2021 10:23:58 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not guilty. But that doesn't mean that specific physical equipment properties are irrelevant in a court of law. It just takes one sharp prosecutor with an agenda, coupled with a not so great defense attorney, to convict you of murder based on evidence that common sense says shouldn't matter. Must have been some circumstance or doubt why it was not a good shot to go all the way to trial. Like your buddy opening his mouth or witness statements that made the shoot questionable. They indicted him on something... What was the case I would like to read it. |
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Posted: 2/4/2021 11:32:38 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not guilty. But that doesn't mean that specific physical equipment properties are irrelevant in a court of law. It just takes one sharp prosecutor with an agenda, coupled with a not so great defense attorney, to convict you of murder based on evidence that common sense says shouldn't matter. I am really trying to understand this statement. The elements of murder and manslaughter are pretty well defined in the code of law, and nowhere that I have read do accessories on a firearm apply to those elements. It is my personal experience knowing two separate people who were involved in self defense shootings, neither one reached an actual trial, as they met the elements for self defense. The firearms, one a shotgun and the other a pistol, were not critical parts of the evidence taken to the grand jury. |
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Posted: 2/4/2021 7:16:57 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am really trying to understand this statement. The elements of murder and manslaughter are pretty well defined in the code of law, and nowhere that I have read do accessories on a firearm apply to those elements. It is my personal experience knowing two separate people who were involved in self defense shootings, neither one reached an actual trial, as they met the elements for self defense. The firearms, one a shotgun and the other a pistol, were not critical parts of the evidence taken to the grand jury. If it went to trial something happened and we are not getting the whole story. Maybe bar fight that escalated or road rage escalation. If he would share the name of the case it is public record we could look it up. I am thinking join date might tell us all we need to know possible troll or just making up something to sound cool. |
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Posted: 2/4/2021 7:20:01 PM EDT
[#34]
Post the link to the story or otherwise it’s internet BS
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Posted: 2/4/2021 11:11:43 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Post the link to the story or otherwise it’s internet BS Or even the court case that is all public record. I like reading about defensive shoot court cases. That is why it is so important to keep your mouth shut more people get themselves in trouble by opening their pie hole. @GimmeLibertee |
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Posted: 2/4/2021 11:29:12 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Post the link to the story or otherwise it’s internet BS wtf ever. I’m not posting any info about this, it involves a very close friend of mine. If you want to believe it’s BS so be it, I really don’t give a shit. |
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Posted: 2/4/2021 11:32:22 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If it went to trial something happened and we are not getting the whole story. Maybe bar fight that escalated or road rage escalation. If he would share the name of the case it is public record we could look it up. I am thinking join date might tell us all we need to know possible troll or just making up something to sound cool. No, nothing like that at all. News flash...good people get put into bad situations all the time, hence my point. Again, a “good shoot is a good shoot” is a fantasy. ETA: join date...right. Believe whatever you want. Internet bullshit is judging someone’s credibility based on their internet screename’s join date. Because trust me, I’ve got nothing better to do with my time then make up stories on the internet for strangers.  .
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Posted: 2/4/2021 11:34:38 PM EDT
[#38]
delete
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Posted: 2/5/2021 7:00:03 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: wtf ever. I’m not posting any info about this, it involves a very close friend of mine. If you want to believe it’s BS so be it, I really don’t give a shit. An unsubstantiated claim with no backing info is not really how we do things here outside GD. Post an article/court transcript with the names redacted if you have to. But otherwise I’m not really buying the “gun mods will bind you up” narrative. |
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Posted: 2/5/2021 9:27:08 AM EDT
[#40]
Yep.
plus join date. |
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Posted: 2/5/2021 3:24:21 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, nothing like that at all. News flash...good people get put into bad situations all the time, hence my point. Again, a “good shoot is a good shoot” is a fantasy. ETA: join date...right. Believe whatever you want. Internet bullshit is judging someone’s credibility based on their internet screename’s join date. Because trust me, I’ve got nothing better to do with my time then make up stories on the internet for strangers. .You made the claim and the court case is already public record anyone can read. Not sure what your issue is the point of this forum is to share information as it is considered a technical forum. When you post something that you are claiming as a fact that it happened and not an opinion you will want me to verify what you are saying is valid, not misunderstood, a lie, or multitude of different things. You are claiming that modifications got your friend bound up but not giving much of any detail so it comes off as a completely baseless claim. So if you want to support your argument post the court case so we can look at the facts of the case. Otherwise what you are saying is internet bullshit because you will not cite anything. Same goes if you were turning in a paper for school you would have to cite your sources for example you would cite XYZ vs State of Virginia or Commonwealth of Virginia. Join date does say a lot as with this thread you posted a baseless claim which is very noobish. We are judging you on your post just so happens join date often correlates with what people post(see your post for example). In the end all you will do is ruin your credibility and no one will take your serious here when you do things like this. Now I know some here can come off as harsh or like dicks but after awhile we get tired of reading baseless claims and just want some evidence or source cited. |
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Posted: 2/5/2021 3:44:13 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Carry what you shoot well and are confident with including 100% reliability I’m a Glock guy on and off duty and I shoot about once a week sometimes more. When I’m off it’s usually a G43X or G48 with a spare mag (G19 with a X300U in the truck console safe) At work it’s a G45 with X300U or G34 ( I work plain clothes so I’m not stuck carrying our issued G17 since I prefer my Dawson sights) Pretty much my exact setup. Except we aren't approved lights on duty stuff yet. Don't get me started. |
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Posted: 2/8/2021 4:14:07 PM EDT
[#43]
Zev slides are fantastic!
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Posted: 2/12/2021 12:42:37 PM EDT
[#44]
Just from a reliability standpoint (any potential legal issues aside), I think choosing a milled aftermarket slide from a reputable manufacturer and using Glock factory parts to complete it is a good way to try out an RMR for the first time. I'd be confident carrying an aftermarket slide from one of the well-known brands, but I'd personally start with OEM parts in it to eliminate any additional variables until I've confirmed that the slide is 100% reliable. I bought a Brownells RMR cut slide for exactly that reason - to try out my first RMR without having to modify a Glock factory slide - but I don't know if I would personally carry that brand just because the finish on their slide serrations tends to be pretty rough.
The only thing I'll contribute to the legality / liability discussion is that I've heard / read several comments from reputable trainers, including Massad Ayoob, that it's a good practice to find out what brand / type of ammunition your local law enforcement, state police, etc. carry for duty use, such as Gold Dots, HSTs, etc. Using that same ammunition for personal defense makes it hard to question in court, if you can articulate that you chose it because it had been vetted and used by local law enforcement agencies. |
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Posted: 2/14/2021 3:23:58 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You made the claim and the court case is already public record anyone can read. Not sure what your issue is the point of this forum is to share information as it is considered a technical forum. When you post something that you are claiming as a fact that it happened and not an opinion you will want me to verify what you are saying is valid, not misunderstood, a lie, or multitude of different things. You are claiming that modifications got your friend bound up but not giving much of any detail so it comes off as a completely baseless claim. So if you want to support your argument post the court case so we can look at the facts of the case. Otherwise what you are saying is internet bullshit because you will not cite anything. Same goes if you were turning in a paper for school you would have to cite your sources for example you would cite XYZ vs State of Virginia or Commonwealth of Virginia. Join date does say a lot as with this thread you posted a baseless claim which is very noobish. We are judging you on your post just so happens join date often correlates with what people post(see your post for example). In the end all you will do is ruin your credibility and no one will take your serious here when you do things like this. Now I know some here can come off as harsh or like dicks but after awhile we get tired of reading baseless claims and just want some evidence or source cited. I was just offering my opinion based on some real world experience. People can take it or leave it but no way in hell am I providing info on the actual court case of a very close friend, just to prove to internet strangers that I’m not full of shit, it’s not that important to me. It’s BS like this that reminds me why I left this forum years ago. |
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Posted: 2/14/2021 3:40:34 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That cop had more issues than that stupid dust cover. An attorney saying shit to the papers is different than getting a conviction because of two words on a dust cover. Would I put stupid shit like that on a gun? Nope, I am not 12 years old, or a moron, but convicting someone of murder because of it is wrong and even more stupid. Nothing in the elements of the crime say anything about decorations on a gun. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The only issue I've ever seen with any after market parts following a shooting was an inscription Don't do this Otherwise if it is a part to make your gun more accurate or effective, do it. As others have said don't say anything above "i was afraid for my life and defended myself. I'll answer everything else with my attorney present. " That cop had more issues than that stupid dust cover. An attorney saying shit to the papers is different than getting a conviction because of two words on a dust cover. Would I put stupid shit like that on a gun? Nope, I am not 12 years old, or a moron, but convicting someone of murder because of it is wrong and even more stupid. Nothing in the elements of the crime say anything about decorations on a gun. No doubt the guy had more issues, but that didn't help. The point was don't be a moron and you won't have issues |
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Posted: 2/14/2021 3:43:12 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was just offering my opinion based on some real world experience. People can take it or leave it but no way in hell am I providing info on the actual court case of a very close friend, just to prove to internet strangers that I’m not full of shit, it’s not that important to me. It’s BS like this that reminds me why I left this forum years ago.  Attached File |
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Posted: 2/14/2021 4:08:43 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The FBI didn't develop the 10mm, Jeff Cooper did. The FBI adopted AFTER the 1986 Miami incident. Then they realized the females & smaller agents couldn't handle the recoil. S&W along with Winchester then developed the 40cal after the FBI requested a 10mm downloaded, but even then the FBI didn't request a new caliber, just wanted a 10mm round with less recoil. I hate to interrupt a good myth, but the FBI never issued full power 10mm ammo. Before any 10mm pistol was ever issued, the Firearms Training Unit realized the extra recoil of full power ammo was not needed to meet their criteria. Blaming “females & smaller agents” for using mid-level ammo is not accurate either. FBI agents shoots hundreds of rounds a day during training. Even manly men would be worn out from shooting this much full power 10mm, when that level of recoil is not needed. |
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Posted: 2/17/2021 7:48:17 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was just offering my opinion based on some real world experience. People can take it or leave it but no way in hell am I providing info on the actual court case of a very close friend, just to prove to internet strangers that I’m not full of shit, it’s not that important to me. It’s BS like this that reminds me why I left this forum years ago. So internet myth is exactly what this will stay. If it were true you would share the court case as it is completely public record. Or the alternative is your close friend was involved in a case of when assholes collide and you do not want to share because it would spoil your internet claim. BS like what you are doing is what is wrong with the site baseless claims with no source cited. If you hate this site so much why are you here just to pollute the site with internet myths? |
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