Quoted:
So FMG will be fine?
I was told to stay away from HP as they have trouble with the hide. That true?

To summarize, we have found 37 verified cases where pistols were used to defend against bear attacks. Included, for complete data reporting, are two cases where bears were shot at with both rifles and pistols, making it difficult to determine the efficacy of pistols alone.

Of the 35 strictly pistol defense cases, one was a clear failure. That is the use of the .357 against an Alaskan grizzly by a geologist on 20 June, 2010. It is likely the bear was not hit in that incident.

There are four successful defenses with 9 mm pistols. The three grizzly bears were killed, the black bear was wounded and ran off.

Two of the three uses of the .357 were successful. One was against a grizzly that was stopped with one shot, but then escaped. The other grizzly was killed with six shots fired.

There were three uses of .40 caliber pistols, all against black bears, all successful, all of the bears were killed.

There was one use of a 10 mm pistol against a grizzly. 4 or 5 shots were fired.  It was successful and the bear was killed.

There were two uses of .41 magnum revolvers. Both were against grizzly bears, both were successful and the bears were killed.

There were twelve uses of .44 magnum revolvers. All were successful. One was against a black bear, it was mortally wounded but finished off with shotgun slugs. Eleven were against grizzly bears.  Two were driven of with “warning shots”. One was driven off, without evidence of being wounded.  One was wounded and not recovered.  One was wounded and finished off at the scene with a shotgun slug. Six were killed without further assistance.

There were four uses of .45 caliber pistols against bears. All were successful. One was against a black bear, which was killed with additional shots, probably from another handgun. The other three were grizzly bears killed with multiple hits from the .45 caliber pistols.

There was one use of a .45 Super pistol. It was successful. The grizzly bear was killed with one shot.

There was one use of a .454 Casull revolver. 4 or 5 shots were fired and the grizzly bear was finished off at the scene with a rifle brought by the defender's wife.

There were three cases of pistol defenses against bears where the pistol caliber was not identified.  One was a grizzly, which ran off. It was not determined if the bear was wounded or not. The other two were black bears that were killed with the pistol fire.

There was one case where both .357 magnum and .44 magnum revolvers were used. The grizzly bear was killed.

In total, there were 8 defenses against black bears and 27 defenses against grizzly bears.

One pistol failure out of 35 cases translates to a 97% success rate for the use of handguns against bears.

Successful bear defenses with a pistol are probably under-reported, much like successful firearm defenses against criminals. If a predatory black bear is shot and runs off, there are strong incentives for the shooter not to report the incident.  Incidents, where no human is injured, are seldom considered news. This creates a strong selection bias against successful pistol defenses against bears.

Predatory black bear attacks are the most common fatal black bear attacks in North America.  Only 8 of the pistol defenses listed above are defenses against black bears or 23%. It is reasonable to believe there should be about twice that number.  Black bear predatory attacks often give potential victims good opportunities to use a pistol effectively.

I have two reported instances of successful bear defenses with a .38 special revolver. One against a black bear, and one against a grizzly. I have not been able to verify either. I have found two more reported cases of the successful use of the 10 mm pistol, and one more for the .357 magnum, but have not been able to verify them.

Even in the age of the Internet, reports can become difficult to find after a few years. I recall an incident where an Alaskan State Trooper killed a grizzly bear with his duty pistol, while an associate with a 12 gauge shotgun did not fire. I have not been able to find that report. It may have been the 2013 incident where unarmed Thomas Puerta was killed and eaten. I am not certain.

If anyone has sources for that incident, or of others not recorded here, either successes or failures, please let us know.

Pistol defense failures against bears should be widely reported. When humans are injured by bears, it is news.

In this compilation of incidents, one was a failure. The .357 magnum was fired three times. The shooter was mauled after the first shot and after the second and third shots. It seems likely the shooter missed all three shots. It is the only bear defense with a pistol, that failed, that we have found.

One failure out of 35 incidents is better than a 97% success rate for pistol defenses against bears.  Using a pistol to defend against bear attacks seems to be a viable option.

The often cited Efficacy of firearms for bear deterrence in Alaska by Tom S. Smith, Stephen Herrero, and others, included 37 instances of a handgun being present when a bear attacked a human.  The instances collected were from 1883 to 2009.  They recorded 6 failures to stop the attack out of the 37 instances. That is an 84% success rate. Pistol and ammunition technology have greatly improved since 1883.

The authors of the Efficacy of firearms have not released their data.  There could be as many as six instances of overlap between the Efficacy of firearms data set and our collection, so a combination of the data is not useful unless the Effficacy of firearms data set is released. We cannot know how many of the six “failures” of the efficacy study might be because the handgun was never attempted to be used, was unable to be accessed because it was buried in a pack, or for other reasons.

All of the instances cited in this article can be verified independently.

©2018 by Dean Weingarten: Permission to share is granted when this notice is included.

Quoted:
If I am camping, then there is no reason not to have a 12-gauge.

For hiking, then I would pick a 230 grain hard cast bullet.

Quoted:

This.

Even 230 grain ball would be fine.

Hard cast in .45 ACP is not all that useful.

Quoted:
Camping in bear country.
I’m going camping in Yellowstone in a few weeks.
We will have bear spray with us but if the bear likes the taste of peppers I want something as a backup.
The largest caliber hand gun I have is a Glock 21 in .45 ACP.
No I can’t buy a 44 mag at this time so this is what we need to take. Yes I know bear attacks are rare.
Hard cast seems to be what is recommended and there are a few brands that make them.

Question is.
What brand, power and weight do you use and why?
What is the best place to buy them?

I have two Glock 21s one compensated and one not. Will it make any difference?
Will hard cast bullets be ok in Glocks octagonal barrel?

Quoted:

You've been wanting (secretly, of course ) to get a Glock 10mm anyway, now here's your perfect reason and opportunity.

For bear country, you want a fast, deep penetrating, and relatively heavy bullet (200gns-220gns). It doesn't have to be the heaviest out there, but it does have to reach vital organs and punch thru bone.  Energy-wise, the 10mm dwarfs any offering in .45acp.

I'd recommend the Gen4 G20 just for the portability and handiness, but the 6.2" longslide G40 really pumps up the velocities of hot 10mm loads from Buffalo Bore, DT, and Underwood.  With either one, you want to be carrying it in a center-chest rig. There are good ones on the market that'll keep it secure while leaving your hands free to do whatever.

Load your Glock up with 15+1 10mm cartridges topped with hardcast or FMJ  slugs  - you want deep penetration that cuts thru the surface hide and tissue, then sinew and muscle, and then breaks bone.

As far as shooting hardcast boolits per se thru Glock factory tubes, you can do it to a limited extent if you clean the barrel afterward so there's no cumulative build-up of residue ...  But if you handload, the poly-coated HC boolits (from, e.g., SNS Casting) don't lead-up the barrel at all and the poly-coating makes for slick-feeding going up the ramp.

Good luck!

Quoted:

The Alaskan bush isn't a 'normal carry' area. It's not like EDC-ing into a WallyMart in Ann Arbor MI on a Sunday afternoon.

You ever actually try a C-C rig?  It gives you immediate & unobstructed access to the weapon, at a time when your hands are likely doing other things, from simple camp chores to fishing off a river bank for salmon or grayling -  any of which can distract your attention just as Mr. Grizz comes sneakin' round the bend  - and you can't get over to your rifle or 12ga in time.

If you do the research, you'll find C-C rigs for handguns are the go-to set-up for AK pilots, guides, and locals who frequent the boonies, river areas, remote fly-in camps, and the hunting & fishing venues generally.

I'm not recommending any particular C-C holster, but you might want to check out Diamond-D's website for his version which is leather. He's an AK resident and he makes a ton of them for various handguns, including the big monster wheelguns. Just FYI ...

Quoted:

And the wide flat meplat is going to suck penetration off that bullet very quickly.

A low pressure round like a .45 ACP does NOT need hard cast for anything.

Quoted:

And the wide flat meplat is going to suck penetration off that bullet very quickly.

A low pressure round like a .45 ACP does NOT need hard cast for anything.

Quoted:
Camping in bear country.
I’m going camping in Yellowstone in a few weeks...

Quoted:
Shockwave or Tac-14 with a brace, and slugs.  I wouldn't trust my life to a handgun dealing with bears, other than possibly koalas.

Quoted:
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSTsuKOoeQQg-WygC_61_Iez1LmNn9LJYoMuobmeGosEK5hClaQ

Quoted:
I don't think 12 gauges ride nicely in shoulder and chest holstets either so hence why many guides and sportsman use pistols and revolvers. It's a compromise especially when your hands are full with a fishing rod or performing some other sport activity.

Quoted:
Hard cast 45 supers from buffalo bore.

Quoted:
Even if the hands are empty, sometimes you just don't want to carry all that bulk. Sometimes you just want to enjoy a hike without a long gun.

Quoted:
Even if the hands are empty, sometimes you just don't want to carry all that bulk. Sometimes you just want to enjoy a hike without a long gun.