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Posted: 2/28/2021 9:00:09 PM EDT
I found a new grey Kel Tec here in town with an inflated price (about $150 over what they used to go for, before the dark times....) and online, a Rock Island Armory XT 22 that is, with shipping included and a discount code, just over $500 new. The all steel XT looks like a better deal to me and I like the 1911 style but not having shot either gun, I figured I'd as here to see what the owners of both have to say about the pros and cons of both. Thanks!
 
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Posted: 2/28/2021 11:02:18 PM EDT
[#1]
I have the PMR30 and its fun to shoot but the cost of 22mag hurts . You don't let someone try it out with a full magazine .
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Posted: 2/28/2021 11:13:31 PM EDT
[#2]
Briefly had a CMR-30, it ran quite reliably as long as I fed it 40 grn, as the manual states.
The PMR-30 uses the same mag, though I've heard it doesn't run as smoothly as the CMR-30. 30x 40 grn .22 WMR would be a bad day for someone if needed. Tried to put my MIL in it but she couldn't rack it from a dead hammer. The RIA seems solid enough, but there's more aftermarket for the PMR - unless the RIA uses a lot of 1911 bits, which I wouldn't doubt. |
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Posted: 3/1/2021 10:26:25 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Briefly had a CMR-30, it ran quite reliably as long as I fed it 40 grn, as the manual states. The PMR-30 uses the same mag, though I've heard it doesn't run as smoothly as the CMR-30. 30x 40 grn .22 WMR would be a bad day for someone if needed. Tried to put my MIL in it but she couldn't rack it from a dead hammer. The RIA seems solid enough, but there's more aftermarket for the PMR - unless the RIA uses a lot of 1911 bits, which I wouldn't doubt. I like how you can add a red dot easily to the PMR30, and the 30 round mag capacity would be nice to have. Plus I could walk out today with it in hand and not deal with an FFL, but the inflated price ($555) makes me pause. I found out the good price on the RIA I found is for store pick up only, as they're not shipping guns out right now due to the demand.  I found another in a store in state that isn't much more. I like the all steel build and the 1911 style, though I've never had a parkerized weapon and would need to read up a bit on keeping it properly oiled up to stave off corrosion, especially in our humid summers.
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Posted: 3/1/2021 11:01:31 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like how you can add a red dot easily to the PMR30, and the 30 round mag capacity would be nice to have. Plus I could walk out today with it in hand and not deal with an FFL, but the inflated price ($555) makes me pause. I found out the good price on the RIA I found is for store pick up only, as they're not shipping guns out right now due to the demand. I found another in a store in state that isn't much more. I like the all steel build and the 1911 style, though I've never had a parkerized weapon and would need to read up a bit on keeping it properly oiled up to stave off corrosion, especially in our humid summers.Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Briefly had a CMR-30, it ran quite reliably as long as I fed it 40 grn, as the manual states. The PMR-30 uses the same mag, though I've heard it doesn't run as smoothly as the CMR-30. 30x 40 grn .22 WMR would be a bad day for someone if needed. Tried to put my MIL in it but she couldn't rack it from a dead hammer. The RIA seems solid enough, but there's more aftermarket for the PMR - unless the RIA uses a lot of 1911 bits, which I wouldn't doubt. I like how you can add a red dot easily to the PMR30, and the 30 round mag capacity would be nice to have. Plus I could walk out today with it in hand and not deal with an FFL, but the inflated price ($555) makes me pause. I found out the good price on the RIA I found is for store pick up only, as they're not shipping guns out right now due to the demand. I found another in a store in state that isn't much more. I like the all steel build and the 1911 style, though I've never had a parkerized weapon and would need to read up a bit on keeping it properly oiled up to stave off corrosion, especially in our humid summers.Looks like there's a pro version of the RIA w/ a rail on top. |
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Posted: 3/1/2021 11:52:36 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like how you can add a red dot easily to the PMR30, and the 30 round mag capacity would be nice to have. Plus I could walk out today with it in hand and not deal with an FFL, but the inflated price ($555) makes me pause. I found out the good price on the RIA I found is for store pick up only, as they're not shipping guns out right now due to the demand. I found another in a store in state that isn't much more. I like the all steel build and the 1911 style, though I've never had a parkerized weapon and would need to read up a bit on keeping it properly oiled up to stave off corrosion, especially in our humid summers.Not really. Parkerization holds up pretty darn well. Don't think I've ever oiled the outside of my RIA 1911. |
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Posted: 3/2/2021 1:32:23 AM EDT
[#6]
I have the PMR and it's nice. Mine loves the 35gr CCI A22. I paid $365 out the door so yeah $555 is steep and ammo prices are ridiculous. The one thing I don't like about it is the heel mag release due to my grip sometimes hitting it while drawing from the holster or while shooting it.
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Posted: 3/2/2021 9:54:41 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have the PMR and it's nice. Mine loves the 35gr CCI A22. I paid $365 out the door so yeah $555 is steep and ammo prices are ridiculous. The one thing I don't like about it is the heel mag release due to my grip sometimes hitting it while drawing from the holster or while shooting it. Yeah, the price of the KT is what's making me keep from grabbing it after seeing them hundreds lower in the past, and some online are at that price but all sold out of course. I really like the looks and build of the AIR XT but with not having a ton of ammo to shoot right now for it (I used to have an AMT years ago and still have some of the ammo) it would probably need to be oiled up and would live in its case. |
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Posted: 3/2/2021 11:20:36 AM EDT
[#8]
How did the AMT run?
Prices are nuts right now. Market price is market price. See if you find a store that can order one, and wait. |
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Posted: 3/2/2021 11:58:37 AM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: How did the AMT run? Prices are nuts right now. Market price is market price. See if you find a store that can order one, and wait. Well, the first one I had went "full auto" on me a few times at the range after I first got it. I was shooting and it would do a three round burst all of a sudden. It did it a few times, I assumed maybe caused by the extractor hitting the edge of the rounds, so back to the store it went. I got a new one ordered in and it was fine. It was fun to shoot when it wasn't jamming, which was quite a bit. I ended up trading it off years ago. I'm leaning toward the Kel Tec since it would be a little less of a hassle to keep clean, plus it's American made and comes with two magazines and as said earlier by another member, it's got more aftermarket things for it. I have a red dot I could use on it if I pick up a mounting plate. |
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Posted: 3/4/2021 1:38:04 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have the PMR and it's nice. Mine loves the 35gr CCI A22. I paid $365 out the door so yeah $555 is steep and ammo prices are ridiculous. The one thing I don't like about it is the heel mag release due to my grip sometimes hitting it while drawing from the holster or while shooting it. I can see how that could be a problem. I'd worry about the plastic mag dropping out on to the ground and breaking if on a concrete or paved surface. I seem to remember some bottom plate you could add that was supposed to make the release a little less easy to bump and release. I had watched a video about a company that makes a different slightly modified heel release button that pushes the magazine up a tiny bit to push the rounds up a bit, making them feed better. They also have a polished feed ramp out of stainless steel that they put in and it looked a lot better and smoother than the standard one. I went up to the local guns shop yesterday to look at the new grey ones they had, and the more I look at them, the more I like them. As was said before, there is a lot more aftermarket stuff for them, lights, lasers, threaded barrel, etc, and I like to customize things I buy. |
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Posted: 3/5/2021 10:43:22 AM EDT
[#11]
While I have plenty of experience with RIA 1911's, I have not shot their XT22 yet.
I do have a PMR (along with a CMR30 and CP33) and love it. Mine runs best with high velocity copper 40 grain copper plated ammunition. It didn't like the lighter 36 grain stuff even from CCI. Plus what's not to like about having 30 round magazines that you can also use in a rifle. One thing about the Kel-Tec PRM30, CMR 30 (same mags) and the CP33 is that you do have to follow the instruction manual and make sure to load the magazines correctly. What I have done with all of my magazines is to load them to full capacity and let them sit for a few days before use. That does help. |
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Posted: 3/5/2021 12:21:06 PM EDT
[#12]
I never had a problem loading the CMR's mag. It didn't like 30 grn loads, though, but I'm told after breaking it in w/ 1k rounds it'll run em.
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Posted: 3/5/2021 1:01:06 PM EDT
[#13]
I may go for the PMR since I can get one local though the price is painful. Nothing is in stock online anywhere at a good price which sucks.
Plus I like the fiber optic sights, the capacity and the ease of disassembly, and that it's been around long enough to have gone through growing pains and they've figured out a lot of the problems. And as others mentioned, the accessories and parts are easy to find for it. |
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Posted: 3/5/2021 1:16:52 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I may go for the PMR since I can get one local though the price is painful. Nothing is in stock online anywhere at a good price which sucks. Plus I like the fiber optic sights, the capacity and the ease of disassembly, and that it's been around long enough to have gone through growing pains and they've figured out a lot of the problems. And as others mentioned, the accessories and parts are easy to find for it. Just remember that unless something has changed they sell a threaded barrel but they do not recommend shooting it suppressed. Supposedly it'll break the gun. I'd have one if I could shoot it suppressed w/o worrying about breaking it. |
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Posted: 3/5/2021 2:13:06 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just remember that unless something has changed they sell a threaded barrel but they do not recommend shooting it suppressed. Supposedly it'll break the gun. I'd have one if I could shoot it suppressed w/o worrying about breaking it. Thanks for that info, I didn't know about that with the suppressors. Is the threaded barrel they sell more for adding a flash hider? I saw some with one added on to cut the muzzle blast a bit. |
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Posted: 3/6/2021 12:20:33 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for that info, I didn't know about that with the suppressors. Is the threaded barrel they sell more for adding a flash hider? I saw some with one added on to cut the muzzle blast a bit. There's only two reasons for a threaded bbl: suppressor or muzzle brake. As already mentioned, Kel-Tec specifically says in the owners manual to NOT use a suppressor. Your grand-children will go blind if you do. A .22mag really doesn't generate enough recoil to warrant a muzzle brake, IMO. I suppose one could add it in order to acquire the TAPCO merit badge but why bother???? 
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Posted: 3/6/2021 12:48:25 AM EDT
[#17]
I will never buy another Kel Tec after awful experiences with the PMR30 and the PF9. Gave the factory a chance to fix them and that didn't work out at all. Persona non grata for me now.
So go with Rock Island if those are your only two choices. |
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Posted: 3/6/2021 11:20:10 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's only two reasons for a threaded bbl: suppressor or muzzle brake. As already mentioned, Kel-Tec specifically says in the owners manual to NOT use a suppressor. Your grand-children will go blind if you do. A .22mag really doesn't generate enough recoil to warrant a muzzle brake, IMO. I suppose one could add it in order to acquire the TAPCO merit badge but why bother???? You forgot flash hiders, linear comps, and flash cans. A flash can on the PMR30 @ night would be a hoot. |
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Posted: 3/6/2021 12:42:54 PM EDT
[#19]
Missed the deals that sold out on the black XT, so I grabbed the last KT at the store. If I don't like it, in todays market I'm sure I can sell it quickly.
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Posted: 3/6/2021 4:18:19 PM EDT
[#20]
    
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Posted: 3/6/2021 8:24:29 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You forgot flash hiders, linear comps, and flash cans. Not much flash on a .22mag, IMO. No clue what a linear comp is either. |
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Posted: 3/6/2021 9:10:44 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not much flash on a .22mag, IMO. No clue what a linear comp is either. A linear compensator works internally as a compensator, but channels all the excess gas to a ring of ports that surround the muzzle, thus directing the gas forward. It doesn't reduce recoil, but it pushes the blast away from you. Flash cans do the same thing w/ less weight, but tend to accentuate the flash - shooting a PMR-30 at night w/ a flash can attached would be a hoot. |
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Posted: 4/7/2021 7:52:15 AM EDT
[#23]
I own both, I’d recommend either but the biggest differences are:
Weight. The XT is a full size full weight 1911, the PMR is a featherweight. Accuracy. My XT beats my PMR30, mainly due to the fixed barrel XT vs a very loose lockup on the tilt barrel PMR30 Reliability. Kind of ‘equal but different’. The PMR had a long break in and still has some brands that aren’t 100% reliable. The XT ran great on day one with CCI 40 gr round nose copper washed loads but wouldn’t extract Hornady C&D or Armscor at all. Both have a good light single stage pull, the RIA should smooth out over time if it’s like any of my other RIA 1911s, Both really prefer to run clean, but the PMR reliability drops faster as it gets dirty. Good quality ammo will make a difference. |
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Posted: 4/7/2021 9:48:01 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I own both, I’d recommend either but the biggest differences are: Weight. The XT is a full size full weight 1911, the PMR is a featherweight. Accuracy. My XT beats my PMR30, mainly due to the fixed barrel XT vs a very loose lockup on the tilt barrel PMR30 Reliability. Kind of ‘equal but different’. The PMR had a long break in and still has some brands that aren’t 100% reliable. The XT ran great on day one with CCI 40 gr round nose copper washed loads but wouldn’t extract Hornady C&D or Armscor at all. Both have a good light single stage pull, the RIA should smooth out over time if it’s like any of my other RIA 1911s, Both really prefer to run clean, but the PMR reliability drops faster as it gets dirty. Good quality ammo will make a difference. I thought the PMR-30 had a sliding bbl w/ no lockup other than case friction. You say it has a tilting bbl? |
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Posted: 4/7/2021 11:28:39 AM EDT
[#25]
I have the CMR and its an awesome package for its intended purpose. I will get a PMR some day.
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Posted: 4/7/2021 11:49:21 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have the CMR and its an awesome package for its intended purpose. I will get a PMR some day. I really liked the CMR-30, and while it was boringly reliable w/ 40 grns, it wasn't w/ 30s - and that's what you need to kick em out over 2200 fps. So I sold it. |
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Posted: 4/7/2021 1:15:12 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have the CMR and its an awesome package for its intended purpose. I will get a PMR some day. |
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Posted: 4/7/2021 7:12:12 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a CMR which I like. I'd get a PMR if I could run a suppressor on it. I'd buy a CMR pistol w a brace as soon as I found one available if they'd sell them. Or even one w/o the brace and stock where I could SBR it easily and add the stock. I think the only way to run a suppressor on the PMR-30 would be to add a piston, or you'd end up tearing case rims. I wish they'd make a .17 HMR, but I understand that's a mite difficult. |
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Posted: 4/7/2021 7:16:03 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think the only way to run a suppressor on the PMR-30 would be to add a piston, or you'd end up tearing case rims. I wish they'd make a .17 HMR, but I understand that's a mite difficult. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have a CMR which I like. I'd get a PMR if I could run a suppressor on it. I'd buy a CMR pistol w a brace as soon as I found one available if they'd sell them. Or even one w/o the brace and stock where I could SBR it easily and add the stock. I think the only way to run a suppressor on the PMR-30 would be to add a piston, or you'd end up tearing case rims. I wish they'd make a .17 HMR, but I understand that's a mite difficult. From what I've read Keltec says don't do it because it will break the gun, not don't do it because it wouldn't run. The 2nd might be a challenge. The first is a no go. |
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Posted: 4/7/2021 7:29:38 PM EDT
[#30]
As an owner of both I'd say the PMR-30.
Mags for the XT are expensive and difficult to obtain. They're half the capacity of the Kel-Tech. The XT has fixed sights. Of the two I have owned both were not sighted in correctly. On one of them impact was so far off I had to have the slide milled and an adjustable sight installed. Accuracy was about the same for both. The XT is heavy as a brick. Standard 1911 grips do not fit it. When you field strip the XT there is a teeny tiny little detent and spring between the barrel liner and the barrel shroud. DO NOT lose these parts. Getting replacements is a bitch. Please do not ask me how I know this. The Kel-Tec will run even if dirty. The XT's chamber must be kept very clean to insure functioning. The XT does NOT lock open on last round. XT costs more to buy. |
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Posted: 4/7/2021 7:36:24 PM EDT
[#31]
Never even seen the RA in person, but I have both a PMR30 and CMR30. Reliability and accuracy is not a problem with either.
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Posted: 4/12/2021 9:09:38 PM EDT
[#32]
So having had both in the past I would vote the PMR. The XT22 is an OK gun and is fairly accurate but is not as fun as the Keltec. It has better sights, more capacity, and the boom and fireball is impressive. If you are looking for the RIA to be a 1911 .22 substitute it is not. The KT does need to be stripped and cleaned, and then regreased and it will fly.
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Posted: 4/22/2021 2:58:45 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not much flash on a .22mag, IMO. No clue what a linear comp is either. You must not be shooting the same ammo I've shot in the PMR-30, which produces a wonderfully big fireball...  I have a couple of the PMR-30s and have had great luck with them. I thought pretty seriously about the RIA when it first came out, but had only seen pictures of it from the side (which makes it look pretty M1911ish (something positive in my mind). However, when I saw the gun from the top with the round exposed barrel and 'open-topped' slide, my zest for one quickly waned since I think it looks pretty ugly (yes, I know, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and beauty is as beauty does). I just couldn't get past the look... My PMR-30s have been extremely reliable. I know nothing about the reliability of the RIA gun. Forrest |
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Posted: 5/20/2021 6:32:26 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought the PMR-30 had a sliding bbl w/ no lockup other than case friction. You say it has a tilting bbl? Not so much a tilt barrel, but like a 1911 there’s play in it depending on how tight the end of the barrel fits to the slide when it’s in battery. On my PMR, it’s a bit sloppy. The XT22 has a solid heavy steel barrel that doesn’t move at all, like a Ruger MKI or Buckmark. Now it may just be mine. I also have a CP-33 that’s a very good shooter. |
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Posted: 6/8/2021 12:08:22 AM EDT
[#35]
If you get the PMR, I'd highly advise getting a Nest Speedloader. It will save your fingers. I have them for both my PMR and CP33/50. Money well spent and almost foolproof.
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Posted: 6/8/2021 11:18:38 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you get the PMR, I'd highly advise getting a Nest Speedloader. It will save your fingers. I have them for both my PMR and CP33/50. Money well spent and almost foolproof. Yes, this^. I have one for mine and it greatly simplifies loading. Just remember to seat the rounds every four or five. My PMR30.  |
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Posted: 6/10/2021 11:16:31 AM EDT
[#37]
I had issues with my PMR30 when I was using an aluminum mount and Swampfox Kingslayer optic, it was too much weight and I would start to get misfeeds once the pistol started to get dirty (5th or 6th mag) I have since switched to a polymer mount and a Sig Romeo Zero and haven't had any issues. Total weight of the mount and Romeo Zero is right at 0.65 ounces. With any rimfire pistol using a reciprocating slide, every tenth of an ounce matters.
And as far as comps go, I can say that the Tandemkross Game Changer Pro does work even with 22LR and 22WMR. I have one on my Kel-Tec CP33 and it did make a noticeable difference. |
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Posted: 6/10/2021 12:10:41 PM EDT
[#38]
Wish someone would make a .17 HMR bbl, springs, & additional slide weights if necessary for the PMR-30.
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