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Posted: 2/19/2018 9:47:36 PM EDT
[#1]
I would only do that as a last resort. They don't penetrate very well. Maybe use them for practice and hope she doesn't notice the full house loads?
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Posted: 2/19/2018 9:54:34 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would only do that as a last resort. They don't penetrate very well. Maybe use them for practice and hope she doesn't notice the full house loads? I have read old magazine articles on reloaded ammo set up the same for PD. Anecdotal I know. |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 10:21:26 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well I knew a few old game wardens who in the revolver days kept a few hollow base wad cutters around for dispatching deer. The hollow base bullet was loaded upside down so the base was now a huge hollow point. DRT was the claim when used but that was likely head shots on a fairly immobilized car hit deer. I have read old magazine articles on reloaded ammo set up the same for PD. Anecdotal I know. Don't confuse this post as me willing to stand in front of one or six. 
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Posted: 2/19/2018 11:22:56 PM EDT
[#4]
A 148 gr DEWC is nothing to sneeze at.
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Posted: 2/19/2018 11:26:18 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A 148 gr DEWC is nothing to sneeze at. |
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Posted: 2/19/2018 11:54:16 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What DEWC stand for? I assume the WC is wad cutter |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 12:09:22 AM EDT
[#7]
Buffalo Bore offers some really hot loads using them!
Check these out! Buffalo Bore 38 Special Wad cutter standard pressure, low flash! |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 12:37:56 AM EDT
[#8]
Don't underestimate the sharp cutting wadcutter. They penetrate fairly straight and very deep even at a mild 800fps. Like the 6.5x55; they kill way better in real life than on paper.
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Posted: 2/20/2018 1:21:51 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Buffalo Bore offers some really hot loads using them! Check these out! Buffalo Bore 38 Special Wad cutter standard pressure, low flash! |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 1:22:22 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Double ended |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 5:45:48 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would only do that as a last resort. They don't penetrate very well. Maybe use them for practice and hope she doesn't notice the full house loads? |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 10:03:21 AM EDT
[#12]
Back when revolvers ruled ( understanding this was during the infancy of good defensive hollowpoint development) pretty much a wadcutter in a snubbie was everyone’s carry combination.worked the. Will work now. Shot placement trumps all other factors.
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Posted: 2/20/2018 12:35:08 PM EDT
[#13]
Not only will Winchester Train and Defend both penetrate adequately AND expand, but it's possibly the lightest recoiling defensive load I've shot through my 442. It's even milder than some plinking ammo out there.
Might be worth a look if you're wanting a more modern projectile. https://www.luckygunner.com/38-special-130-gr-jhp-winchester-train-defend-20-rounds#geltest |
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Posted: 2/20/2018 11:48:26 PM EDT
[#14]
+1+1 on underwood and buffalo bore wadcutter - google "ed harris wadcutter" - great article on WCs
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Posted: 2/21/2018 12:04:47 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
+1+1 on underwood and buffalo bore wadcutter - google "ed harris wadcutter" - great article on WCs |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 12:05:24 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not only will Winchester Train and Defend both penetrate adequately AND expand, but it's possibly the lightest recoiling defensive load I've shot through my 442. It's even milder than some plinking ammo out there. Might be worth a look if you're wanting a more modern projectile. https://www.luckygunner.com/38-special-130-gr-jhp-winchester-train-defend-20-rounds#geltest |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 12:06:26 AM EDT
[#17]
Federal makes a 148 gr wadcutter match load.
Target sports USA sells them https://www.targetsportsusa.com/federal-gold-medal-38-special-ammo-148-grain-match-wadcutter-gm38a-p-1187.aspx |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 2:13:22 PM EDT
[#18]
Assuming they are loaded hot enough to get good penetration I guess I would but then again a full wad cutter is about one of the hardest loads to reload with quickly especially if your using a speed-loader or on moonclips. I don't really see the real benefit to carrying wad cutters when you can have similar or better performance with ammunition that actually has some taper to the nose making reloads easier.
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Posted: 2/21/2018 2:51:58 PM EDT
[#19]
Yeah, I wouldn't want to use them for reloads, but I think if you get a wadcutter with enough velocity, it should penetrate well. Maybe there are some super powder puff ones out there that might not be a good choice. But yeah, I think lucky gunner covers which ones might work well.
I wouldn't hesitate to use those wadcutters for the first 5 shots. But that's just me. The loads I carry are not ideal. The most ideal loads are the Gold Dot +p's and the corbon +p's. Both of them make me wince each shot and I always feel better off with something that won't induce a flinch. I carry hornady's 125 grain american gunner. They are known to penetrate well and not really expand much. I'd rather lean towards that. Even them are a little on the stiff side. But manageable in my 442. I actually have some remington Golden saber 125 +p's in my gun right now because they don't recoil much more than the Hornady's. Way better than the other 2 I mentioned. Either way the only way I enjoy shooting my 442 is with soft ammo. At the range the PMC 130 FMJ's are not bad at all. And yeah, the Train and Defend are not bad at all either. Some day I want to try those hornady Lite loads. You may want to try them for your wife. https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/hornady-critical-defense-lite-38-special-ftx-90-grain-25-rounds?a=1588975&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Dynamic+Search+Ads+-+DSA&utm_term=&pm2d=SEM-SPG-DSA-SITE&mkwid=sVMUYy4i1&pcrid=138294797190&mtype=b&devicetype=c&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIoamzk9e32QIVG7jACh2Itw_NEAAYASAAEgL5TvD_BwE |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 8:54:27 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, I wouldn't want to use them for reloads, but I think if you get a wadcutter with enough velocity, it should penetrate well. Maybe there are some super powder puff ones out there that might not be a good choice. But yeah, I think lucky gunner covers which ones might work well. I wouldn't hesitate to use those wadcutters for the first 5 shots. But that's just me. The loads I carry are not ideal. The most ideal loads are the Gold Dot +p's and the corbon +p's. Both of them make me wince each shot and I always feel better off with something that won't induce a flinch. I carry hornady's 125 grain american gunner. They are known to penetrate well and not really expand much. I'd rather lean towards that. Even them are a little on the stiff side. But manageable in my 442. I actually have some remington Golden saber 125 +p's in my gun right now because they don't recoil much more than the Hornady's. Way better than the other 2 I mentioned. Either way the only way I enjoy shooting my 442 is with soft ammo. At the range the PMC 130 FMJ's are not bad at all. And yeah, the Train and Defend are not bad at all either. Some day I want to try those hornady Lite loads. You may want to try them for your wife. https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/hornady-critical-defense-lite-38-special-ftx-90-grain-25-rounds?a=1588975&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Dynamic+Search+Ads+-+DSA&utm_term=&pm2d=SEM-SPG-DSA-SITE&mkwid=sVMUYy4i1&pcrid=138294797190&mtype=b&devicetype=c&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIoamzk9e32QIVG7jACh2Itw_NEAAYASAAEgL5TvD_BwE |
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Posted: 2/21/2018 9:08:34 PM EDT
[#21]
Get some hard cast wadcutters and bump up the speed just a touch and it will make holes that will take 2 corks to slow down the bleeding.
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Posted: 2/22/2018 1:44:17 AM EDT
[#22]
I carried a 38 with 148 wadcutters for years. As far as self defense, probably the best choice for inflicting pain. The chances of over penetration like hitting an innocent behind the perp is minimal. If she shoots well with the wadcutters buy or if set up for, cast some hollow based and load them backwards. A trick often used by 1940-50's police limited by dept policy to 38 Special revolvers. If you're a handloader you'll likely have to exceed published data that is listed maximum for shot to shot accuracy. I used a published load recommended for 158gr lead. I'm guessing so verify with published data for safety reasons 3.5grs of Bullseye. I used 2.8 BE for target shooting.
If the Mrs is recoil sensitive, consider jacketed 110gr hollow points. The 110's were favored by some detectives carrying snubbys for their milder recoil and minimal chance of over penetration. |
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Posted: 2/22/2018 1:53:31 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Get some hard cast wadcutters and bump up the speed just a touch and it will make holes that will take 2 corks to slow down the bleeding. |
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Posted: 2/22/2018 9:02:46 AM EDT
[#24]
If you guys are pushing up the velocity, aren't you defeating the purpose? Also, if you do this, use DEWCs. Pushing HBWCs too hard might blow the skirts off.
I love wadcutters. I shoot thousands a year. But, if dedicated defense ammo is an option, that'd be my choice. YMMV |
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Posted: 2/22/2018 7:50:53 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have loaded some like that myself. Accuracy was marginal. I have seen 148s stopped by a 2x4. If it was the apocalypse, or if I was hunting small game, I would happily use HBWCs. The only time I would personally recommend them for self defense would be for handicapped people or if nothing else was available. Don't confuse this post as me willing to stand in front of one or six. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Well I knew a few old game wardens who in the revolver days kept a few hollow base wad cutters around for dispatching deer. The hollow base bullet was loaded upside down so the base was now a huge hollow point. DRT was the claim when used but that was likely head shots on a fairly immobilized car hit deer. I have read old magazine articles on reloaded ammo set up the same for PD. Anecdotal I know. Don't confuse this post as me willing to stand in front of one or six. |
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Posted: 2/22/2018 9:48:43 PM EDT
[#26]
If your wife can handle the gun and accurately shoot it with the 148gr wadcutters, then so be it. Im sure there are some better ammo choices out there but for a lightweight 5 shot revolver, I wouldn't worry about it.
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Posted: 2/22/2018 11:31:29 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If your wife can handle the gun and accurately shoot it with the 148gr wadcutters, then so be it. Im sure there are some better ammo choices out there but for a lightweight 5 shot revolver, I wouldn't worry about it. |
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Posted: 2/23/2018 12:53:06 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If your wife can handle the gun and accurately shoot it with the 148gr wadcutters, then so be it. Im sure there are some better ammo choices out there but for a lightweight 5 shot revolver, I wouldn't worry about it. |
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Posted: 2/23/2018 6:13:27 PM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 2/23/2018 6:32:56 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
get her some new HST https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/2275/3C9A5CFB-4579-4A64-BB94-DC078F3FD3C6-462070.JPG I am curious though, what advantage flush seated +P has over regular +P, much less 148 WC. I would be interested in hearing a report on recoil comparison. At $1.00 a pop you should give us a detailed report. 
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Posted: 2/23/2018 6:36:47 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They don't penetrate very well. To the OP, based on my own real world experience I'll take a 148gr full wadcutter in the 700-800fps range over ANY modern expanding 'wonder bullet'. I'm specifically speaking out of shorter barrels and especially lightweights. Light recoil leads to fast follow-ups and they will out penetrate HP's, yet cause far more permanent damage. |
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Posted: 2/23/2018 6:47:07 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Don't underestimate the sharp cutting wadcutter. They penetrate fairly straight and very deep even at a mild 800fps. Like the 6.5x55; they kill way better in real life than on paper.
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Posted: 2/23/2018 8:05:41 PM EDT
[#33]
I've enjoyed the contributions to this post. Shot some Fiocchi 148 grain today again, almost no recoil. Only advertised at 730 FPS so I ordered some Underwood 150 grain WC. That ought to be the sweet spot.
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Posted: 2/23/2018 8:12:08 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's interesting. I am curious though, what advantage flush seated +P has over regular +P, much less 148 WC. I would be interested in hearing a report on recoil comparison. At $1.00 a pop you should give us a detailed report. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
get her some new HST https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/2275/3C9A5CFB-4579-4A64-BB94-DC078F3FD3C6-462070.JPG I am curious though, what advantage flush seated +P has over regular +P, much less 148 WC. I would be interested in hearing a report on recoil comparison. At $1.00 a pop you should give us a detailed report.  Federal HST Micro 130gr 38 Special +P Ballistic Gel Test (HD) |
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Posted: 2/23/2018 9:29:13 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote History |
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Posted: 2/24/2018 12:17:28 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote History |
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Posted: 2/25/2018 2:39:18 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's interesting. I am curious though, what advantage flush seated +P has over regular +P, much less 148 WC. I would be interested in hearing a report on recoil comparison. At $1.00 a pop you should give us a detailed report. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
get her some new HST https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/2275/3C9A5CFB-4579-4A64-BB94-DC078F3FD3C6-462070.JPG I am curious though, what advantage flush seated +P has over regular +P, much less 148 WC. I would be interested in hearing a report on recoil comparison. At $1.00 a pop you should give us a detailed report. It is what I currently use in my Ruger LCR. 
Please don't judge me. I have a lot more ammo than that. That is just a little bit I keep on hand at one of my places. 
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Posted: 2/25/2018 2:51:06 AM EDT
[#38]
If one does have issues with recoil, one extremely low recoil load is the Federal 125 Nyclad load.
IF there is a round to fire indoors, in a revolver, for self defense, without a suppressor/ear protection, this is it. And, while I can handle recoil, this round makes me ask "why". 
Just understand, it is discontinued and almost impossible to get. |
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Posted: 2/25/2018 9:18:24 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Please don't judge me. I have a lot more ammo than that. That is just a little bit I keep on hand at one of my places.
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Posted: 2/25/2018 1:19:20 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You have to start somewhere. 
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Posted: 2/25/2018 1:27:35 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep. A bit at a time, here and there. https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4710/40436835162_203c62c617_z.jpg https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4698/40436850712_ab0cb17bba_z.jpg 
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Posted: 2/25/2018 4:33:45 PM EDT
[#42]
http://www.doubletapammo.net/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=555
This is what I carry in my 642. Double Tap's 148 solid WC, hits 740fps out of a snub barrel. They're hard cast, MUCH harder than your typical pure lead WC so they don't deform. They are 100 fps faster than your typical light target WC but still recoil less than +p 125-130 grain loads. Testing on a road killed deer showed they would completely shoot through a deer skull as well as shoot through a shoulder and out the other side leaving a nice full caliber hole. I find them sufficient. |
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Posted: 2/25/2018 7:30:22 PM EDT
[#43]
I'm jelly. My .38 stash is getting low..... And the budget is squeeky tight. I got some 9mm for Christmas because I anticipated switching to a new G43. However, I'm not sure I'm going to actually do that..... I just can't bring myself to do it. In my mind and in theory I want to. But everything else in my being says to just keep carrying the 442 and that it's "good enough" for most scenarios.
I don't know. I'm probably dumb. But it's always there at my 1 oclock if I have pants on. I'm not sure I want to do that with the G43. I would probably switch to 4 oclock and I don't like it as much. Anyways.... need to sell some stuff to buy more .38. My Mom has this huge stash of 158 grain LRN that was my Step Dad's that I can use in a pinch though. For practice. It's super old and stinky though. |
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Posted: 3/5/2018 2:24:46 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hard cast best for target shooting. The pressure is not high enough to obturate the hard lead and seal the bore very well. |
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Posted: 3/5/2018 2:42:38 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hard cast and low pressure loads (like target loads) are a bad combination. The pressure is not high enough to obturate the hard lead and seal the bore very well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Hard cast best for target shooting. The pressure is not high enough to obturate the hard lead and seal the bore very well. It works. |
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Posted: 3/6/2018 12:09:08 AM EDT
[#46]
My Underwood 150 grain wad cutters came in, tried them out and they're what I'm going to carry.
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Posted: 3/26/2018 11:43:58 PM EDT
[#47]
A hard cast full wadcutter with no skirt at regular velocity is load not to be trifled with. It will penetrate and cause a wound cavity. I just read about a police officer who had a wad cutter from practice in his gun, he shot a perp and the perp dropped like a sack of lead with one shot. If I could not get jacketed hollow points for my 638, I would load any wheel weight cast bullet flat end first. Loading skirted wadcutter backwards will not work.
http://www.grantcunningham.com/2011/11/ed-harris-revisiting-the-full-charge-wadcutter/ |
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