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Posted: 1/19/2021 9:44:03 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why? Because a couple internet guys say I can't? LOL. Fucking comical. Sometimes I wonder if 1/2 the people on here even shoot the guns they pretend to own. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 9:51:15 AM EDT
[#2]
Now I want to dust off the old .500 Smith and go shoot a match......
Don't let 45-seventy blow smoke up your third point of contact, sometimes he thinks He's John Wayne. ...... |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 10:18:19 AM EDT
[#3]
Paul Harrel on Youtube does a ton of videos comparing different ammo and jacket layers, etc.
Check him out. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 10:37:16 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I never shot a classifier until this past September. I shoot with my carry guns (all 1911's except a JFrame BUG). My CDP classifier was SS....but that was with a .45 ACP 1911. For fucks sake, a classifier isn't that difficult. I have spent a lifetime shooting heavy recoiling handguns. A 10 mm out of a full sized steel framed 1911 (mine is a Springfield) isn't that big of a deal. YMMV. Edit...have you shot a 10 mm in something other than a Glock? I shot a friends Glock 10 mm, and it did jump around a bit. If a Classifier isn’t that difficult why are you only an SS after shooting it with a .45? |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 11:11:36 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If a Classifier isn’t that difficult why are you only an SS after shooting it with a .45? Because that's how I shot that day? You are asking me a bunch of questions, and I am answering them honestly. Not sure what you are after. If a 10 MM is too hot for you, don't shoot one. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 11:14:47 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Deflection as expected. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why? Because a couple internet guys say I can't? LOL. Fucking comical. Sometimes I wonder if 1/2 the people on here even shoot the guns they pretend to own. What deflection? I have answered every question. Somehow you find it unbelievable that a 10 mm can be managed well enough to qualify as a carry gun. Ever shot a Smith & Wesson Model 19 with full house .357 loads? Not everyone was brought up on high capacity 9mm's |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 11:24:47 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Now I want to dust off the old .500 Smith and go shoot a match...... Don't let 45-seventy blow smoke up your third point of contact, sometimes he thinks He's John Wayne. ...... I can see that....if he can't do it, nobody can 
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Posted: 1/19/2021 12:30:58 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What deflection? I have answered every question. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 12:58:34 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Then define competent. And stop being so sensitive, Nancy. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What deflection? I have answered every question. Not sensitive at all, Senator. Competent: I can draw and shoot, putting 2 bullets in the k-zone at a reasonable range. Recoil doesn't keep me from moving to the next target in an efficient manner. I know how to operate the style of pistol (1911) very well. I can handle jams and malfunctions (if there are any) pretty efficiently. I can engage longer ranges (before the ammo shortage I shot at 50,75, and 100 yards regularly). I certainly don't intend to get in a gunfight at longer ranges, but in my rural locality, nothing would surprise me. I am certainly not John Wikking at 100 yards, but I could keep a fella's head down. Everything ok there? Anything else? |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 1:22:26 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not sensitive at all, Senator. Competent: I can draw and shoot, putting 2 bullets in the k-zone at a reasonable range. Recoil doesn't keep me from moving to the next target in an efficient manner. I know how to operate the style of pistol (1911) very well. I can handle jams and malfunctions (if there are any) pretty efficiently. I can engage longer ranges (before the ammo shortage I shot at 50,75, and 100 yards regularly). I certainly don't intend to get in a gunfight at longer ranges, but in my rural locality, nothing would surprise me. I am certainly not John Wikking at 100 yards, but I could keep a fella's head down. Everything ok there? Anything else? |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 3:04:42 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're very sensitive judging by your responses. I'm just asking because you started the argument and yet you can't quantify your competence. You say you carry a 10mm which has nothing to do with competence and you say you compete with it, but you have no point of reference such as classification, scoring, or accuracy info. What are your splits with your 10mm 1911 compared to other calibers? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Not sensitive at all, Senator. Competent: I can draw and shoot, putting 2 bullets in the k-zone at a reasonable range. Recoil doesn't keep me from moving to the next target in an efficient manner. I know how to operate the style of pistol (1911) very well. I can handle jams and malfunctions (if there are any) pretty efficiently. I can engage longer ranges (before the ammo shortage I shot at 50,75, and 100 yards regularly). I certainly don't intend to get in a gunfight at longer ranges, but in my rural locality, nothing would surprise me. I am certainly not John Wikking at 100 yards, but I could keep a fella's head down. Everything ok there? Anything else? I have given you an example of my competence, you either believe it or you don't. I don't really care. I didn't start this argument. One of you fellows stated very authoritatively that he has never seen anyone competent with a 10 mm. I disagreed. Then Know It All # 2 started asking about my rating and scores. I've answered everything. No, I don't know my "splits". So let me ask you: What do you carry daily? Do you shoot IDPA with that, or do you have a designated IDPA pistol with all the bells and whistles? What is YOUR measure of competence? If you carry daily, why? What do you expect to encounter? I shoot IDPA at a local club, for the express reason of staying familiar with what I carry, to shoot what I carry. They recently started Steel Challenge, and we are doing that as well. Steel Challenge seems boring as hell compared to IDPA. I watch the guys with the tricked out guns, watch their malfunctions, and kinda laugh. To each his own, but race gun nonsense is not for me. For a couple of guys trying to sound so "in the know"....it's hilarious to me that you can't conceive of a regular shooter who has trained with a full sized steel framed 1911 in 10 mm and feels competent to carry it. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 3:35:17 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have given you an example of my competence, you either believe it or you don't. I don't really care. I didn't start this argument. One of you fellows stated very authoritatively that he has never seen anyone competent with a 10 mm. I disagreed. Then Know It All # 2 started asking about my rating and scores. I've answered everything. No, I don't know my "splits". So let me ask you: What do you carry daily? Do you shoot IDPA with that, or do you have a designated IDPA pistol with all the bells and whistles? What is YOUR measure of competence? If you carry daily, why? What do you expect to encounter? I shoot IDPA at a local club, for the express reason of staying familiar with what I carry, to shoot what I carry. They recently started Steel Challenge, and we are doing that as well. Steel Challenge seems boring as hell compared to IDPA. I watch the guys with the tricked out guns, watch their malfunctions, and kinda laugh. To each his own, but race gun nonsense is not for me. For a couple of guys trying to sound so "in the know"....it's hilarious to me that you can't conceive of a regular shooter who has trained with a full sized steel framed 1911 in 10 mm and feels competent to carry it. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 4:18:33 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're just a guy that got his feelings hurt. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have given you an example of my competence, you either believe it or you don't. I don't really care. I didn't start this argument. One of you fellows stated very authoritatively that he has never seen anyone competent with a 10 mm. I disagreed. Then Know It All # 2 started asking about my rating and scores. I've answered everything. No, I don't know my "splits". So let me ask you: What do you carry daily? Do you shoot IDPA with that, or do you have a designated IDPA pistol with all the bells and whistles? What is YOUR measure of competence? If you carry daily, why? What do you expect to encounter? I shoot IDPA at a local club, for the express reason of staying familiar with what I carry, to shoot what I carry. They recently started Steel Challenge, and we are doing that as well. Steel Challenge seems boring as hell compared to IDPA. I watch the guys with the tricked out guns, watch their malfunctions, and kinda laugh. To each his own, but race gun nonsense is not for me. For a couple of guys trying to sound so "in the know"....it's hilarious to me that you can't conceive of a regular shooter who has trained with a full sized steel framed 1911 in 10 mm and feels competent to carry it. You have yet to answer any of my questions, and I have answered all of yours, to the best of my ability. Not a chance in heck you could hurt my feelings on this subject. You probably have a circle of buddies at the range who hang on your every word. I'm not one of them. Don't let it bother you, Senator. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 5:52:50 PM EDT
[#14]
I always get questioned about which do I think is more important, speed or accuracy.
I shot PPC for 6 years on my dept. I shot IDPA before that. I like to answer that by saying..... "Surviving a lethal force encounter hinges on finding a good medium ground where accuracy and speed don't over power either when you have only one chance to win the encounter and that Real world pressure hits you for the first time and you just thought you were ready...." Don't find yourself on the ground bleeding because you're still waiting on the beep from your timer to say it's time to shoot. Muscle memory can mean hearing also... Will have to piss off some folks and start a new discussion about how nobody can shoot a 10mm in a competitive setting, let alone carry one for protection and survive a gun fight. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 6:07:10 PM EDT
[#15]
Uh, I've now forgotten the point of this thread.
How about the thin apple skinned folks move on and respect the OP? Eh? |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 6:14:32 PM EDT
[#16]
This thread affirms my decision that I will never shoot any type of competition.
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Posted: 1/19/2021 6:21:45 PM EDT
[#17]
Apologies to the OP.
Got caught up defending 10mm for full time carry, let alone winter carry. New thread started in HG discussion. |
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Posted: 1/19/2021 6:46:41 PM EDT
[#18]
My apologies to OP....thread got derailed.
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Posted: 1/19/2021 7:32:33 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why? Because a couple internet guys say I can't? LOL. Fucking comical. Sometimes I wonder if 1/2 the people on here even shoot the guns they pretend to own. I'm sure most do, just many of them "shoot" them when playing call of duty. My daughters were shooting G23's quite proficiently when they were still in grade school, yet if you listen to the interwebz eck-spurts anything in 40 cal is impossible to control. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 4:00:36 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I always get questioned about which do I think is more important, speed or accuracy. I shot PPC for 6 years on my dept. I shot IDPA before that. I like to answer that by saying..... "Surviving a lethal force encounter hinges on finding a good medium ground where accuracy and speed don't over power either when you have only one chance to win the encounter and that Real world pressure hits you for the first time and you just thought you were ready...." Don't find yourself on the ground bleeding because you're still waiting on the beep from your timer to say it's time to shoot. Muscle memory can mean hearing also... Will have to piss off some folks and start a new discussion about how nobody can shoot a 10mm in a competitive setting, let alone carry one for protection and survive a gun fight. I hear this argument quite a bit and I’ll ask the same question I’ve never heard a response to: Has this ever happened in human history even a single time? If it has, please provide documentation. As someone who has been a competitive shooter most of my life and has also spent time on the two way range, I believe it to be a created issue. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 5:53:05 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This thread affirms my decision that I will never shoot any type of competition. That’s interesting, why? It’s an excellent way to actually see how factors like weight and recoil effect real world performance under stress. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 6:11:32 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s interesting, why? It’s an excellent way to actually see how factors like weight and recoil effect real world performance under stress. I agree with 45-Seventy.....competition, even local competition causes stress that you can't get on the flat range. I watched some guys at a steel challenge shoot just walk off when their gun jammed. Seriously? How do you not train for that? Good luck in a Walmart parking lot at midnight if your gun jams. Training/competition is HUGE |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 6:22:00 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s interesting, why? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This thread affirms my decision that I will never shoot any type of competition. That’s interesting, why? For two reasons. You people came off like a bunch of assholes in this thread. I think this is a reflection of how a lot of you are at the range. Competition shooters are like the Jehovah Witnesses of the gun community. "Do you shoot competition? You should. We practice every . You should come by. If you give me your email I can send you some info." Not everyone wants to join your cult. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 6:31:04 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For two reasons. You people came off like a bunch of assholes in this thread. I think this is a reflection of how a lot of you are at the range. Competition shooters are like the Jehovah Witnesses of the gun community. "Do you shoot competition? You should. We practice every . You should come by. If you give me your email I can send you some info." Not everyone wants to join your cult. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: This thread affirms my decision that I will never shoot any type of competition. That’s interesting, why? For two reasons. You people came off like a bunch of assholes in this thread. I think this is a reflection of how a lot of you are at the range. Competition shooters are like the Jehovah Witnesses of the gun community. "Do you shoot competition? You should. We practice every . You should come by. If you give me your email I can send you some info." Not everyone wants to join your cult. Our argument had nothing to do with competition. The club I go to is 100% welcoming of shooters at all levels. Nobody gives anyone any shit, ever. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 7:06:55 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Our argument had nothing to do with competition. The club I go to is 100% welcoming of shooters at all levels. Nobody gives anyone any shit, ever. Exactly. I don’t think I’ve actually run into a club which doesn’t love to have new shooters. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 10:17:20 AM EDT
[#26]
Shooting in the competition mindframe has taught me a lot over many years, being around experienced shooters was also very helpful,
One does not have to shoot competition to be effective or a competent shooter. Just so long as you actually train with what you carry. I see a lot of people buy a gun, have the guy load it for them and they never handle it again....to me that's more of a liability than not having one. I am sorry if I came across that way, it was not the intended outcome other than a couple of hard heads trying to get through to each other.... (wife says my noggin is still up armored from Iraq) |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 1:26:43 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Has this ever happened in human history even a single time? If it has, please provide documentation. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I always get questioned about which do I think is more important, speed or accuracy. I shot PPC for 6 years on my dept. I shot IDPA before that. I like to answer that by saying..... "Surviving a lethal force encounter hinges on finding a good medium ground where accuracy and speed don't over power either when you have only one chance to win the encounter and that Real world pressure hits you for the first time and you just thought you were ready...." Don't find yourself on the ground bleeding because you're still waiting on the beep from your timer to say it's time to shoot. Muscle memory can mean hearing also... Will have to piss off some folks and start a new discussion about how nobody can shoot a 10mm in a competitive setting, let alone carry one for protection and survive a gun fight. I think people forget what they're training for. For the majority of people, it's self-defense while out running their errands, not special operations zombies utilizing squad tactics. I have long wondered why it's so hard to buy regular gear that isn't "tactical" -and who's buying all that tactical gear and what are they doing with it. Then someone left one of those combat tactical magazines with the glossy ads, and just thumbing through it made me want to go spend $6,000 on a fancy AR, plate carrier, etc.  |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 2:25:50 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ironically, we'd have a very hard time trying to find an incident where an average citizen defending his/her life with a handgun ever needed to reload. Yet reload speed is something competitors and non-competitors practice regularly. I think people forget what they're training for. For the majority of people, it's self-defense while out running their errands, not special operations zombies utilizing squad tactics. I have long wondered why it's so hard to buy regular gear that isn't "tactical" -and who's buying all that tactical gear and what are they doing with it. Then someone left one of those combat tactical magazines with the glossy ads, and just thumbing through it made me want to go spend $6,000 on a fancy AR, plate carrier, etc. Did the magazine propaganda work? |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 3:58:34 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Did the magazine propaganda work? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ironically, we'd have a very hard time trying to find an incident where an average citizen defending his/her life with a handgun ever needed to reload. Yet reload speed is something competitors and non-competitors practice regularly. I think people forget what they're training for. For the majority of people, it's self-defense while out running their errands, not special operations zombies utilizing squad tactics. I have long wondered why it's so hard to buy regular gear that isn't "tactical" -and who's buying all that tactical gear and what are they doing with it. Then someone left one of those combat tactical magazines with the glossy ads, and just thumbing through it made me want to go spend $6,000 on a fancy AR, plate carrier, etc. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 4:08:49 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ironically, we'd have a very hard time trying to find an incident where an average citizen defending his/her life with a handgun ever needed to reload. Yet reload speed is something competitors and non-competitors practice regularly. I think people forget what they're training for. For the majority of people, it's self-defense while out running their errands, not special operations zombies utilizing squad tactics. I have long wondered why it's so hard to buy regular gear that isn't "tactical" -and who's buying all that tactical gear and what are they doing with it. Then someone left one of those combat tactical magazines with the glossy ads, and just thumbing through it made me want to go spend $6,000 on a fancy AR, plate carrier, etc. Yeah... I’m going to go ahead and still practice reloads. Also, my comments was with regards to the argument against using a timer in training. If you aren’t training to standards, you’re just shooting stuff. |
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Posted: 1/22/2021 7:50:36 PM EDT
[#31]
I'm going to keep training reloads, malfunctions, and multiple targets.
I am pretty sure I will never need any of those skills, or even my pistol. But if I do..... |
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Posted: 1/24/2021 10:44:38 AM EDT
[#32]
I think it was Todd Green who said you need to reload anyways. Might as well practice being efficient.
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Posted: 1/24/2021 3:55:31 PM EDT
[#33]
I feel like competition is a great way to train in a high(er) stress environment. Multiple targets, shooting on the move, and reloading quickly under stress are all important or useable skills. Hell they're fun then why not. And honestly I think the 10mm is a decent carry option, especially with the milder factory ammo. I can shoot a g20 loaded with hot ammo faster and more accurately than I can my 686 10mm isn't too different than 357mag, and thats a highly touted carry caliber. but thats just my 2 cents, just to derail the topic some more
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Posted: 1/24/2021 5:13:01 PM EDT
[#34]
I don't change ammo with seasons, 9mm 124 HST in pistols and .38 wadcutters in snubbie revolvers all year round.
As for the competition thing Jim Cirillo saw plenty of value in competition and when I was at Bragg I knew plenty of high speed guys in Group that competed. The key is to take what is useful from competition and leave the rest. The useful parts are having a chance to practice both mechanical skills (draws, reloads, muzzle control while moving, picking the right sight picture for the target you are engaging, malfunction drills) and perform mentally under stress (the timer and in direct competition with other people). |
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Posted: 1/24/2021 5:15:55 PM EDT
[#35]
Whoops, my phone hadn't refreshed so I didn't see MfK's post otherwise mine would have been shorter
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Posted: 1/26/2021 4:38:43 PM EDT
[#36]
I'm using 9mm 115gr Gold Dots or 45 200gr Hornady XTP's all year round.
But I carry my Glock 36 most of the time. |
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