FN Five-seven pistol?

I think I have the answer for you as I know a woman that has the exact same issues as your wife. The folks that are suggesting the 357 with light recoiling 38 loads are close but in my wife's friends case, the heavy revolver was part of the problem. So after extensive trial and error this is what we did. We borrowed a taurus 38 revolver with 4" barrel from my Dad. It has an aftermarket rubber grip that is fairly small and fit her hand really well. The handgun is not too heavy and had a trigger job to give it a very smooth double action trigger. Now the key is we started with some handloads using 125gr JHP that were only doing about 600fps and had very light recoil. We let her shoot 50 rounds of that and she actually did pretty good and by that I mean she kept all shots on a silhouette target from 7 yards.

Then what we did was work her up over the next 3 or 4 trips to the range from the really light 38 loads to a regular 38special load using the same 125gr JHP at around 800fps.  By the end of the last trip, she was keeping 6 rapid fire shots inside 12" at 7 yards every time. That was plenty good self defense accuracy for her. Granted there are plenty of better choices for self defense but I think 2 or 3 shots of 38special in the chest will get the job done.

My wife was kind of the same way.   What type of 9mm pistols has your wife tried.  My wife tried a few and hated the recoil on most of them.  She has small hands too and was sensitive to the noise and recoil of most pistols.  When she shoots, I have her use both foam ear plugs and headsets to reduce the noise.  I took her to the gunshop and let her pick out a full size 9mm pistol.  She picked the M&P out because of the grip.  I taught her to grip the slide and push on the frame of the pistol forward to chamber a round.  As far as recoil, the M&P is excellent and she had no problems hitting clay pigeons at 7 yards the first time out.  

As far as her mindset to protect herself, your wife just wants to do it on her terms.   If you get her the 22 revolver to leave loaded, just get her a pistol lock box to keep it in.

I think this, along with the suggestions made earlier by Unk, are my next step.

I've ordered a Hogue bantam grip to replace the large Pachmayr that is currently on the Model 66.  She liked the finger grooves on my 386NG with the Ahrends boot grips, but liked the grippiness of the rubber - so the Hogue Bantams seemed a good compromise.

I also ordered a box of Federal Match .38 Wadcutters - 148gr at 710 fps.  We'll give those a try and see how she does.  We'll also try the Federal Reduced Recoil .38 rounds.  If either of those work out well, I'll make those her "defense" round for now.  If it's the wadcutters, I'll try to work her up to full-powered .38's over time.

Thanks much for the suggestions everyone.  I'll update this once we get back out to the range and she gives it a try.

Technically they work better than on TV.  The demo units and police units stun for 5 seconds.  The personal ones stun for 30 seconds so you can drop it an run away.  They can also be used against multiple attackers (darts in one, and then can use it as a contact stun gun).  I would absolutely get her a Taser and then you can worry about handguns (at least she'll have something she can use).  I bought my wife and stepdaughter Tasers and think they are awesome.  Get at least one extra cartridge so she can test fire it.

Not sure about the legal aspect re: Michigan.  You can try to force a handgun on her, or get her something she will almost certainly be able and willing to use.

Every woman should own a Taser. (and I don't work for or own stock in the company )

I have verified that they are currently illegal to own/use in Michigan if you're not police and a few other select groups.

And for the umpeenth time in this thread, no one is forcing a gun on her.  She wants me to help her find something that she is comfortable with.  Hell she initiated this!

is a pistol caliber carbine out of the question?

I think the suggestions to not give her gun because she may get hurt herself are not because she will be afraid to use it but because she may be not be effective with it. If she shoots someone and doesn't kill them they might not just run away. I wouldn't trust even my own life to 6 shots of .22 let alone my wife.
Dustin

Might check out the S&W 351 PD seven shots (very light) in 22 mag.  Designed as a BUG.  Alloy J frame with 17/8" bbl.  With Hornady's new 22mag Critical Defense ammo the test results were similar to a 380 HP (recent test in a gun magazine).  Best choice for self defense?  No, but better than not having a pistol.    JD

I think any intruders would be a heck of a lot more likely to run away if she's armed and shooting.

I'm still concerned with the unwillingness to take a firearms class from a professional training instructor or agency.   In my opinion purchasing a firearm is putting the cart before the horse.   The women specific courses as well as many other basic pistol and home defense classes will cover the different pistols available, and let the student handle them.

Until there is proper training and learning the search for a low/no recoil and low noise pistol will be a frustrating hit or miss experience.   What is plan B and plan C if the grip change does not help or the low recoil ammunition does not work?

She is unwilling to take a training class right now.  Perhaps I can get her to take one in the future - but right now, she has no interest in doing so.   Maybe if she finds a handgun that she enjoys shooting, she'll be more interested in taking a class.  We'll see.

Understand that we have plenty of firearms in this  house right now.  And that if someone broke in today, she WOULD grab one of them.  She'd then be armed with a handgun that she is uncomfortable with, can't shoot well, etc.  So the choice here is between Gun She's Not Comfortable With or Gun She Likes and Can Shoot Well.

My goal here is that if she has to grab one, she grabs a gun that she is confident she can use well.  If the 66 with wadcutters doesn't make her happy, then I'll look at something like a 351PD .22 WMR.  Once she finds something she likes to shoot, I'm hoping she'll go to the range more.  And if she goes to the range more, I'm hoping she'll work up to better defensive calibers, and training.

But I'll be damned if I'm going to tell her, "Unless you go get some formal training, I'm changing the combination to the safe and you're not allowed to use a firearm to defend yourself."

Like others have sugested a 6 " mid sized 686 or similar.
Beretta storm carbine
How about a .410 pump with slugs or buck.
Surpriseingly many women like the 1911. I believe it has to do with the slim grip and recoil being a big long shove as opposed to the wicked fast snap of a 40 or 9

I do pistol courses and have found many women to be highly sensitive to noise,many times percieving it to be recoil.
Double up with foam plugs under a good set of ear muffs(I sugest peltor ultimate 10)
Avoid shot barrel guns and open outdoor ranges will be beter than a tight booth of a indoor range

I am not trying to imply that she not be allowed to have access to a firearm to defend herself.   My suggestion is the training will provide her with the knowledge to be able to better choose and use a firearm.   I am also concerned with the gun in the safe plan.   If she has trouble with the anticipation of recoil will she be able to recall and operate the safe lock?   Will the weapon be loaded in the safe and will it be the right weapon chosen?

Having done a lot of dynamic entries for search warrants very few people are prepared for a home invasion type situation.   In my house everyone is carrying a pistol in a holster this makes it readily available,  they can evacuate the area while still being armed, and no kids or guests can obtain control of the weapon.  

Everyone has been through formal training and train regularly weekly or biweekly.  

Training still seems to me to the elephant in the room.  Maybe your wife would watch some youtube videos of Tori Nonaka or another young female shooter and see if that would motivate her to take training.   Also taking a class with friends may make it lees intimidating.

Currently we have teenage children in the house, so we prefer the firearms be locked unless we're home.  I imagine she'd have the gun vault open during the day when she's home and in the study.



That's ideal, but we are far, far away from her carrying nonstop while at home.   Also, we have some decent security measures that would at least slow down someone trying to bust in, hopefully giving her plenty of time to arm herself and call 911.



Agreed, but I cannot make her do anything, only encourage.  She has talked about going to a Ladies-only night at the local indoor range, which has female instructors those evenings, but that hasn't happened so far. Again, I think a handgun she feels is "hers" and that she enjoys shooting would make her much more interested in doing something like that, which might lead to more formal training.

Good luck in your search for handgun.

Im going to go agianst the grain here. I was in the same situation you are in. At first my wife disliked guns in general and only went to the range to humor me. She especially disliked recoil.

After several trips to the range she started to warm to the Browning Buckmark .22, but wanted the simplicity of our S&W model 19. She did not want to shoot .38's in the Model 19 however. She wanted a .22 revolver. My wife is pretty darn stubborn - so if she wanted a .22 revolver thats what she got. I went to gun broker and got her a S&W model 18 .22LR.

With more range time she gut more confident with the .22. I felt that 6 CCI .22's are better than a whole lot of nothing. One day I came home with a new impulse buy. A Colt 1903 in .32 ACP, made in 1925. I wanted it just because, but for some reason she liked it the first time she saw it. So she started practicing with the .32. Then it became her house gun with loaded with Gold dots. Later she did move up to .38's in the Model 19 and 115 grain 9mm's in our Beretta and 1911 conversion. She still will not fire .45ACP in the 1911.

Same story with the long guns. She only wanted to shoot the 10/22 for the longest time, then moved up to a M1 Carbine and a 20 gauge loaded with #3 buck. She still has no desire to shoot the AR or the Benelli 12 Gauge, and thats fine.

Bottom line, get her what she wants and let her progress at her own speed. I agree that the .22 is far from ideal but its better than nothing and will get her started. Get her a nice 4" K frame S&W model 18 with the old style thin grips or a 3" or 4" S&W J frame like the model 34. They are expensive, but I think she will love it.

Nice Model 18:  http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=261176305

Nice model 34: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=260989637

Nice model 51 .22 Mag:  http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=260815690

This is exactly what I'm hoping will happen.  Our wives sound very similiar in this regard.  

For a lot of the popular autos they make "slide-racker" handles that extends sideways from the pistols slide to make it easier to rack the slide, mostly while using a scope mount, etc for competitions. One of them might make it easier for her to rack a slide on a auto? You could get a Glock with a .22lr slide for her to train with, easy to rack the slide, same trigger pull etc, then use a full caliber upper for home defence?

I also think that a .22lr is better than nothing, and a revolver gets around a few of the major weekness's of a rimfire. If a round is a dud, a DA trigger pull then rotates the next round into place, also they are more reliable than most .22 autos. Many here are talking about 6rds of .22lr, while there are many .22lr revolvers out there that hold upwards of 10rds of .22lr. If I was stuck with a .22lr for defense I would use 40gr Velociters or Aguila Intercepters or 60grSSS.

There are also pistols out there like the Tip-up barrel Beretta 86 where you dont have to rack a slide to chamber a round. Something like a .357 Rossi Ranch Hand/Mares Leg using 2 hands and shooting .38specials?

NO WAY. Don't get a .22 LR.

Rimfire ammo is nowhere close to as reliable as centerfire. If you need to go with that light of a recoil impulse than a big +1 to the FN 5.7 pistol. Forget that .22 LR crap for anything other than plinking range/training ammo.

Would never bet my life on rimfire.

While I agree that a more powerful round should be used for defensive purposes, the bottom line is she is not willing to shoot anything else right now. I also agree that a FiveSeven would be a better defensivechoice. The OP stated that she does not want an automatic - she wants a .22 revolver. Ive been there with my wife before. If she can get comfortable with shooting the .22, hopefully she will graduate to larger calibers.

Yes rimfire is not as reliable as centerfire, but if she has a revolver she can just pull the trigger again. Revolvers also rarely 'jam'. Im 45 now, have been shooting since I was 5, and while I have seen plenty of rimfire misfires - I have never seen 6 rimfire misfires in a row.

What I have seen is plenty of people turned off to shooting by others trying to force a certian type of gun or a larger caliber that they dont like on them.

There is a lot of bad advice in this thread.  You already have the answer.  Buy her a S&W, Taurus, or Ruger  .22LR or .22 Mag revolver with an 8+ shot cylinder.  Load it with the hottest SOLIDS you can buy.  Do not load with HP, since you MUST have penetration.  Get the gun worked on by a reputable smith for a smooth DA pull, but keep full power springs for reliability.  

Now, back to your original comments about 38 our of  a .357 being too much for your wife.  You never said what ammo you had her use and I don't recall what you said about her hearing protection.  If you used powder puff wadcutters, there was no recoil so that was not the real issue.  I suspect it was psychological and perhaps in response to the sound impulse.  She needed plugs AND muffs.  If you haven't used the WCs and double hearing protection in the past, do so in the future.

A .22 is FAR better than nothing, especially with 8 - 10 rounds on tap in a gun she might actually enjoy shooting.  Do keep in mind to double hearing protection with the .22 Mag, as it is louder than 22LR.

I'm pretty sure someone makes a revolver in 9mm (Ruger?)

Smith and Wesson Model 547.

I dont think that they have been in production for a long time. Hard to find but around if you really want one: http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=260992491

Pretty sure Ruger made a 9mm cylinder for some .38./.357 single action revolvers.

Then why in the hell are you looking at handguns? If she's not willing to carry at home, let alone away from home, what good is a handgun? The ONLY strength a handgun has is its small size and portability. If the firearm is to be used exclusively for home defense, you should be looking at rifles and shotguns. Since she appears to be recoil sensitive you should focus primarily on PCCs or an AR, if she's comfortable with it. For the PCC here are a few ideas:

Kel-Tec Sub 2000
Marlin Camp 9
Ruger PC
Beretta Storm
Lever action .357 firing .38



But before you spend one more red cent on guns, you need to give her the opportunity to shoot more and tell you what she likes. If she asks for a .22lr revolver, then get her one but keep going to the range and shoot all of your guns and your friends'. Go rent guns, if you can. Stop treating range trips like a science project and just have fun. Lose the IDPA targets and put some balloons, pop cans, melons, and other fun targets out there but no farther than 7 yards. Let her goof off and just have fun. Just keep stuffing mags and let her shoot whatever she feels like shooting, even if that's just the .22s. When you take all the BS out of it and stop trying to teach or demonstrate, when she starts to have fun, she won't notice the recoil from a .480. If, a couple years from now, she still doesn't like anything but a .22lr, fine. Having a .22lr that she likes shooting and is competent with is a whole HELL of a lot better than anything else.

You should also find out where she got hung up on the revolver idea. Odds are she picked it up from you or a friend and now thinks that only revolvers are reliable and only revolvers are appropriate for wimmen folk or some other such nonsense.

Or twelve. In .22lr there is no reason to limit yourself to six rounds in a revolver.

Damn good point.

I mean go with a pistol carbine then if you're not looking for something you can carry around with ya. Plenty of quality 9mm carbines with pretty much no recoil and IMO it takes more skill and training to be competent with a pistol than a rifle you can shoulder. I find that women have an easier time loading and reloading carbines as well.  Easier to slap a red dot on most carbines as well.

Still going to say I don't like .22LR for anything other than plinking/training. Not only because of the great reliability of centerfire, but the .22LR just isn't designed in shape to be a great defensive round.

I can't believe this thread is still going.. lol

There is a MAJOR reason for not recommending a long gun - - HER DESIRE IS FOR A .22 REVOLVER.  SHE is the one that is going to be shooting it.  If she doesn't even go to the range more than twice a year she is not going to remember how to work a magazine fed long gun.

This lady may have issues we would all like her to move past.  However, pushing her into something she doesn't want or can't handle (at this point) is only going to cause problems.  I say give her what she wants and let her advance at her pace.    

Thank you.

The .38 Federal Match wad cutters arrived, as did the smaller grip.  I installed it on the Model 66 and she likes how it feels. Hopefully that and the lower recoil ammo will appease her and we'll be good to go for now.  Hope to get her to the range this week, since we're both on vacation.

You'll note that my preference is for what the shooter wants. Still, it's important to delve into the thought process to find out WHY she's stuck on the idea of a revolver because there is likely faulty logic at work. Ideally she'd be rockin' a suppressed 12" AR and a G19 or 1911. On the other end, what she's asking for indicates she may be operating with some faulty information. Best plan is to go shooting and have fun with the .22s and talk about why she thinks a revolver is good or a handgun in general if she's not even going to carry it.