Being retired I have entirely too much time on my hands now.
I am looking to do some 80% lowers and making knife blanks , possibly other little bullshit.
Please overwhelm me with info

A few years ago I bought a Precision Matthews bench top mill (manual) - it weighs about 950 lbs - larger and more capable than a mini mill, smaller than a Bridgeport.

Do you want to do manual or CNC? Precision Matthews also has CNC versions - but if I had the $$ I would at least consider a Tormach (if not a ‘real’ industrial CNC mill)

I bought a cheap ($1k) chicom import bench top mini-mill.  While it was great for learning, I would have been farther ahead buying a Bridgeport.  That said, the power, size and cost can be intimidating.  I knew before I ever bought into any of it that I wanted a Bridgeport (or clone), having owned less, I know the difference.  Sure there's better, but damn they can be found for the right price if you're patient.  

My Milling Evolution

I looked at their website. I sa one for 3k. But is that what I want/need for the above listed wants.
If need be I will enroll in a shop class to learn. As I said I have plenty of time

I’m just an occasional hobby machinist - and not particularly skillful compared to other, more knowledgeable and experienced hobbyists that I have met - but the way that I built my knowledge (ten years ago - time goes by too quickly) was by completing a couple of “Introduction to Machine Tool Technology” classes at a local community college (which had a machining lab with a dozen Bridgeports and an equal number of decent sized manual lathes). Blueprint reading, review of trigonometry, feeds and speeds, safety, hands-on training and projects, and more.

I would highly recommend such an approach rather than just jumping in (but of course YMMV).

Also, BTW, you might want to check to see if you may have a nearby “makerspace” (community workshop) that offers access to machining equipment and has members who have appropriate skills - My local ‘space has a Bridgeport which I can use for projects that are beyond the capabilities of my own equipment (mine has a $50 monthly membership fee, which is typical, but they also have open-to-the-public night once or twice per week).

Oh, one last item and then I will let other, more capable folks give guidance - many will tell you that the milling machine itself is only the tip of the iceberg and they are right - accessories, tooling, measuring equipment, jigs, etc. add up very quickly...

The price tag on a mill or a lathe is just part of what you pay to play. Tooling will get expensive, initially and over time.

A digital readout (DRO) will make life a whole lot easier. You don't need CNC for milling the FCG pocket on an AR lower.

I cut my teeth on manual machines without DRO's.  I will use the DRO on occasion (especially when I have metric dimensions to work with), but the dials work well enough.  You just need to make sure of your backlash when positioning.

In general, the bigger the casting means a more rigid machine.  A more rigid machine makes holding dimensions much easier.

As mentioned above, the cost of the machine is only the first part.  But, it is the thing that does not wear out very quickly, and can last a couple of lifetimes if taken care of.  Nor do the hold downs, vices, indexers, rotary tables and the like wear out quickly.  What does wear out are the cutters.  Carbide cutters do wear longer, but will break if you look at them cross eyed. Plus they are much more expensive than highspeed steel cutters. And, you need a good assortment of cutters.  

Two things that you need right away are a drill chuck and a milling vise.  You will find that the mill will replace just about any drill press.

Calipers, micrometers, combination set (12 inch scale, 90/45 degree, head, centering head, and protracting head), parallels, 1-2-3 blocks. and v-blocks are things that you will need to start as well.


Note: Though I really like milling stuff, lathes are much more useful for most things.  One can get quite creative and actually mill stuff on a lathe even without a milling attachment.  Turning stuff on a mill is generally much more awkward; it can be done, however.

Is there a reputable dealer to get a used one?  They seem to range in the 30k and up range and vastly vary with size and features.  I have looked at the Tormach stuff, looks nice but I hear some of the specs they claim are off (I would go back to you get what you pay for).  The nice thing is they have a unit that runs on 110v, not sure how much impact it is when working with more than aluminum though.  If it takes longer and has to make more passes so be it but if I am going to burn something up I will pass.  I would love to have the ablity to do titanium stuff but that seems to a "a whole new level" for even commercial stuff, not sure.

I paid $7500 for my Fadal.  Rigid tap, 10k rpm, 21 tools, 20hp, it'll interpolate a bore or boss within .001" TIR.  Mine is on 3ph, but there are 4020's converted to run on single phase (not cheap but is doable) and some of the smaller mills had single phase from the factory.  Parts are cheap, tech support is free.  I'd be hard pressed to think of a better starting point for a new cnc mill.

Humm searching around Fadal seems to be pretty good.  They look almost perfect for someone that doesn't need pure speed and doesn't have a huge budget for any parts that break or need replacing due to wear.  

I have pretty much given up on keeping a single phase effort, 3 phase looks to be the best if you want a decently powerful motor and not burn something up.  I would love to have a 6030 or slightly larger but it seems the 4020 is 11k Lbs and the 6030 is around 33k Lbs and they climb from there (these weights are based off the brochure data).  This is a huge difference, I mean if I had to go pick one up I can get 11k but 33k is out of my league.  There is a 99% chance I would get it shipped either way but 33k .  

From looking it seems they started making the 4020 around 1992 and the last ones were in 2017 (just guessing from used sales).  The model seems to have changed from 4020 to eventually the 4020B II.  They had a few other models in there with HT and other identifiers but so far I have not found what each of the identifiers mean and if they really matter.  I have only found downloads of the 4020B II and it says it has USB port which if your going to import a design to mill seems the best option.  I doubt a 1992 model has that but does it matter?  If anyone can give me a better rundown of all the differences it would be appreciated.  There might be a better forum to ask but some members here seem to know just as much if not more.

Go to practical machinist, in the cnc mill general forum type in a search for Fadal or 88hs and be prepared to read until your eyeballs fall out.

But like you stated, they're great for making good, accurate parts when time isn't your biggest concern.

Thanks, I saw that website last night.  I wasn't sure if that was the best source but it had more hits for Fadal than anything else.  I just went an posted a question.  To surf that I would die before I got to the end of it..

You need a 40 taper machine next.  Way more rigid than a Bridgeport.

Agreed.  Need to add on a dedicated machine shop.  That's when I'll start really spending $

Oh course the correct answer is get both.  I actually have 3, but I'll leave the VN out of it for now since it's not really an option.

I have a J head Bridgeport.  It's nice, I wish it had better spindle speed choices, but it works.  These machines are more than enough for anyone working at home.  It's light years ahead of any table top machine in capacity and rigidity.

When it's time to get serious, I switch over to the K&T Model H.  4000+ pounds of serious metal removal.  5 hp and 50 taper can handle anything here that I will ever need to do.

It's also at the limit of my power availability.  When I bought the H, they had a K for the same money, I estimated it weighed over 6000 lbs and I passed on it, just couldn't move it.

The 2nd picture shows the size difference between the R8 collet and a 50 taper end mill holder.

Jason