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Posted: 12/3/2018 1:29:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2018 2:10:08 PM EDT by Dominion21]
Maybe some localities have seen growth, but nationally, the sport of speed-shooting Steel targets with old-west style "cowboy" guns seems on the decline.

I've never tried a match, but I am curious to hear from the insiders as to why the sport seems to be dying out?

Is it growing in places like California, where the single-action six-shooters and lever guns have not been as heavily targeted by gun-grabbers?
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 1:31:39 PM EDT
Ran out of cool nicknames?

Honestly, it seemed corny as fuck. There can only be so many Katie-Bar-The-Doors.

Link Posted: 12/3/2018 1:31:56 PM EDT
The old people died.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 1:32:47 PM EDT
When they moved their headquarters to New Mexico, I lost most interest in it. I really liked that annual world championship match and get together at Rahauges in CA.

I have to drive too far for my local matches.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 1:33:59 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By wildearp:
When they moved their headquarters to New Mexico, I lost most interest in it. I really liked that annual world championship match and get together at Rahauges in CA.

I have to drive too far for my local matches.
View Quote
Same reason reenacting died.....its corny, and the participants either died or are in prison.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 1:36:12 PM EDT
I'm going to guess an aging population?

The same thing that is killing a lot of things, especially firearm oriented. The lion's share of of young people have little interest in historical or antiquated objects, hence the decline in value of a lot of antiques and vintage collectibles.

I suspect the decline in Harley sales is for somewhat of the same reasons.......
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 1:36:21 PM EDT
Love to shoot my single action pistols and lever action rifles.

But ...

Dressing up like cowboys and shooting with others similarly dress seemed ... silly.

Did cowboys dress up like pilgrims and have blunderbuss competitions?
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 1:36:28 PM EDT
Stupid costumes and names.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 1:37:17 PM EDT
I have zero of the guns or gear required to shoot CASS, how much will it reasonably cost for me to get started? How useful are those firearms otherwise? How well do the skills and techniques learned translate to the “real world”? These are the primary obstacles it faces.

People would rather shoot with guns and gear they already own, like an AR-15 or a semi-automatic handgun. And they feel like the skills they learn shooting those arms are more practical. Also, shooting 9mm and 5.56 for matches is cheap. Pretty much all the CASS shooters at my club reload to make their match ammo cheap, but that’s a whole other massive upfront cost.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 1:38:48 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By shaggy:
Required Stupid costumes and names.
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Fixt.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 1:39:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2018 1:40:15 PM EDT by cttb]
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Originally Posted By jagdkommando:
The old people died.
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This, plus good LARPing leaves room for plausible deniability.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 1:40:20 PM EDT
My totally wild ass guess is that as more and more boomers who were weaned on Roy Rodgers, The Lone Ranger, Gunsmoke, John Wayne etc either are growing too old and or passing away.
As someone who grew up at the tail end of the tv western era it's something I've always wanted to get into, but much like my love for hunting I don't have the time to indulge like I would like to.

(The downside of working for yourself is that when you're not working you're not getting paid and I have kids I'm putting through college and child support on one that's graduating this year.)
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 1:40:51 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Tier1BeanCounter:
I have zero of the guns or gear required to shoot CASS, how much will it reasonably cost for me to get started? How useful are those firearms otherwise? How well do the skills and techniques learned translate to the “real world”? These are the primary obstacles it faces.

People would rather shoot with guns and gear they already own, like an AR-15 or a semi-automatic handgun. And they feel like the skills they learn shooting those arms are more practical. Also, shooting 9mm and 5.56 for matches is cheap. Pretty much all the CASS shooters at my club reload to make their match ammo cheap, but that’s a whole other massive upfront cost.
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Having to buy more guns is a feature not a bug.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 1:42:03 PM EDT
IMHO. It got expensive
Unless you owned authentic cowboy clothes (expensive, kind of like authentic WW2 garb) you were kind of looked down on
Like a guy showing up at a bike riding event in gym shorts on a huffy
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 1:42:13 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By jagdkommando:
The old people died.
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Those Walkers blocked the natural speed swing needed for quick draw...

Link Posted: 12/3/2018 1:46:16 PM EDT
The dominance of the fake old west Ruger Vaquero and other gamer bullshit is why I have no interest in it. Nothing against the people who shoot it though, most of the members of my range are CAS shooters and they are mostly good people.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 1:46:53 PM EDT
I'd probably try it if I could use a modern revolver (with appropriate ammo) and didn't have to play dress up.
Buying special repro guns and wearing a costume kills any interest I would have in it.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 1:47:23 PM EDT
I don’t want to dress up like a Toy Story character in order to participate.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 1:47:40 PM EDT
All the SASS shooters at my range hung up their spurs for 3 gun rigs.

One of the guys had a saying that Cowboy action was the only shooting discipline where the girls talked about guns and the guys talked about clothes....
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 1:47:43 PM EDT
Guessing from an outsider perspective. Western movies haven’t been a popular genre in movies (as in common releases) for around 40 years. So the majority of the people that would be interested would probably be 50 and up. If the core group is aging and they aren’t getting replacements it’s going to die off. Everything in life is one generation from extinction. No replacements stuff ends.

Besides that the leverguns are expensive the pistols aren’t badly priced though. it’s cheaper to get an AR a pistol that can be used for multiple things (who’s gonna cc a 1873?) and go shoot 2 or 3 gun which makes it easier for younger people to go that route plus since younger people grew up on call of duty et all they will have more interest in that sort of shooting anyways to begin with.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 1:50:21 PM EDT
Myself, my better half, eight year old boy and 5 year old daughter are working on getting into it. From going to some matches and watching we observed that they are real nice people. Everyone wants to see our kids shooting even though the girl will have to wait a couple of years and it is something we can do together. Our normal clothes work for this but I can see my family wanting to dress up at some point.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 1:50:32 PM EDT
As mentioned above, cost is one thing.

I'd say media as well. Once in a while we get really good Westerns that get people into the idea, or video games like RDR. Consider how many Westerns you see today vs 50 or 60 years ago though, back when you had great actors pumping out Western after Western. TV also had Westerns. Today? Nada
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 1:51:37 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By jagdkommando:
The old people died.
View Quote
True. My club was involved in CAS until about 12 years ago, when it died for lack of interest. In my 40s at the time, I was one of the younger shooters. The guys who were the most active are now dead or barely able to get around.

Cost was a big factor, too. To be one of the cool kids, needed two SA revolvers, expensive belt with holsters, lever-action, pistol-caliber rifle and a shotgun, double-barrel or Model 1897 Winchester. Unless you reloaded, cost of ammo, particularly .44 or .45, was an issue.

Younger guys, not raised watching Gunsmoke or Have Gun, Will Travel, didn't have the connection to westerns and cowboys.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 1:51:56 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Zebra120:

Same reason reenacting died.....its corny, and the participants either died or are in prison.
View Quote
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 1:54:37 PM EDT
The shooting part seems fun

The dress up not so much.

Actually not at all

And the price of the guns is crazy lately
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 1:54:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2018 2:09:37 PM EDT by TheNorth]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By DOW:
Ran out of cool nicknames?

Honestly, it seemed corny as fuck. There can only be so many Katie-Bar-The-Doors.

View Quote
Why is it corny? If someone finds it enjoyable who are you to call them corny?
I could take a look at your life and probably pick out at least 5 things you do, enjoy, and how you do it and call you corny, or a fool, or a LARPer for it.
It's all subjective.

I've never done it myself, but I'd probably have a lot of fun with it.
Not everything in life has to be "training" while LARPing a SEAL like some corny fool.

Link Posted: 12/3/2018 1:56:02 PM EDT
Because 17 rounds are better than 6 rounds. Because 30 round semiautos are better than lever actions.

If i wanted to do cowboy larping I would go larping.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 1:56:50 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By TC6969:
Fixt.
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Originally Posted By TC6969:
Originally Posted By shaggy:
Required Stupid costumes and names.
Fixt.
This right here. Shooting single actions is fun, but why do I have to dress up.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 1:59:53 PM EDT
This




reminds me too much of

this
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 2:03:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2018 2:04:34 PM EDT by HellifIknow]
Previous posters have it.

1.) The demographic raised on TV and Movie westerns is aging out. The folks most interested are dying off. Not enough new blood coming in because...…...

2.) It's damned expensive to get into. And damned expensive to participate in.

3.) Stupid Fudd rules.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 2:06:53 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By jagdkommando:
The old people died.
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If something gets young people involved, it would probably be Red Dead Redemption 2.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 2:08:58 PM EDT
I have no interest in it because I don’t want to dress up like a cowboy. I’m Asian. I have my dignity. There were no Asian cowboys in the old West and I’m not going to pretend there ever was.

But if they change it up to be revolver shooting and lever-action rifle shooting in a furry costume, then hellz yeah, I’m in!
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 2:10:46 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By jagdkommando:
The old people died.
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Pretty much this.

They’ve been known to do that.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 2:10:59 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HellifIknow:
Previous posters have it.

1.) The demographic raised on TV and Movie westerns is aging out. The folks most interested are dying off. Not enough new blood coming in because...…...

2.) It's damned expensive to get into. And damned expensive to participate in.

3.) Stupid Fudd rules.
View Quote
Yes, yes and yes.

Do I think it might be fun to shoot a SASS stage once in a while? Absolutely. Does it seem fun enough to justify the cost of gear and needing to dress up in a costume and use silly names? Not a bit.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 2:11:36 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By jagdkommando:
The old people died.
View Quote
Yep. Old guys doing old guy shit. These are the same guys who design their gun club t-shirts with crossed canons, every time.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 2:12:08 PM EDT
It's been said plenty already but it can't be said enough. The corny bullshit and stupid costumes are the problem.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 2:15:22 PM EDT
In the competition world centered around revolvers, I'd rather shoot ICORE.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 2:15:26 PM EDT
First racquetball, now CAS? What's next to go the way of the DoDo, golf?
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 2:16:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/3/2018 2:16:38 PM EDT by AeroScout23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By placedesjardins:
I have no interest in it because I don’t want to dress up like a cowboy. I’m Asian. I have my dignity. There were no Asian cowboys in the old West and I’m not going to pretend there ever was.

But if they change it up to be revolver shooting and lever-action rifle shooting in a furry costume, then hellz yeah, I’m in!
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My LGS owner is Chinese by birth. He lives CAS. He also takes BW photos in a tux holding a Thompson.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 2:18:06 PM EDT
The western genre was #1 in literature and film here for like the first 80 years of the 20th century.

Naturally as that has fallen off the number of people raised around it has fallen off so interest has fallen off.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 2:18:28 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By placedesjardins:
I have no interest in it because I don't want to dress up like a cowboy. I'm Asian. I have my dignity. There were no Asian cowboys in the old West and I'm not going to pretend there ever was.

But if they change it up to be revolver shooting and lever-action rifle shooting in a furry costume, then hellz yeah, I'm in!
View Quote
This rare historical colorized photo proves you wrong!

Link Posted: 12/3/2018 2:22:00 PM EDT
If I could just buy the guns and some leather and go shoot in normal clothes I probably would, the whole dress up thing and having to buy all that crap kills any interest in it.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 2:22:20 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By godzillamax:
This rare historical colorized photo proves you wrong!
http://trackingboard1.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Shanghai-Noon.jpg
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Originally Posted By godzillamax:
Originally Posted By placedesjardins:
I have no interest in it because I don't want to dress up like a cowboy. I'm Asian. I have my dignity. There were no Asian cowboys in the old West and I'm not going to pretend there ever was.

But if they change it up to be revolver shooting and lever-action rifle shooting in a furry costume, then hellz yeah, I'm in!
This rare historical colorized photo proves you wrong!
http://trackingboard1.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Shanghai-Noon.jpg
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 2:22:42 PM EDT
I used to shoot CAS.
One of the things that torqued me off was the retarded B.S. regarding the actual firearms allowed.

Supposedly the rule was the gun had to exist during the "Frontier Period". 1890 or prior.

OK. What about all the 1897 Winchester pumps? Those damn sure were NOT on the Frontier. STFU I was told.
One fellow turned up with a no shit 1886 Spencer pump shotgun that was most certainly a frontier period gun. He was DQ'ed.
Another guy tried to use an 1880's British Webley. NOPE! Not allowed.

I always thought there should be a .22LR classification allowed.
This would allow for low cost, entry level folks as well as another class for experienced shooters to play in.
But NOOOOOOOOOOO.
The gamers could shoot mouse fart centerfire loads all day long but .22lr "wasn't in the spirit of the game".

Had my fill and walked away.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 2:23:09 PM EDT
I think from a younger perspective it's very cringeworthy. High cost of entry and it's really strange that the loads are so low on a lot of the ammo.

It becomes more of a cosplay thing than shooting very quickly.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 2:23:26 PM EDT
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By HellifIknow:
Previous posters have it.

1.) The demographic raised on TV and Movie westerns is aging out. The folks most interested are dying off. Not enough new blood coming in because...…...

2.) It's damned expensive to get into. And damned expensive to participate in.

3.) Stupid Fudd rules.
View Quote
Mostly #3. I wanted to get involved years ago but found the costume rules/requirements were utterly ridiculous....maybe they've relaxed them since then. No short sleeved shirts, no felt hats in this division, no straw hats in that division, no modern blue-jeans, blue-jeans must have a flap over the back pocket, no modern anything....It seemed that if you want to shoot multiple divisions it would be extremely expensive.

If it weren't for the costume rules, I'd probably shoot it.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 2:23:57 PM EDT
All of the above, plus...

It's basically LARPing.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 2:25:59 PM EDT
Probably a combination of everything the OP listed. I would love to try it, but I have other guns I want to buy before I get a single action revolver and a lever gun. I the idea of having to dress in period clothes seems a bit silly to me at this stage of my life, maybe when I was younger I would be more open to it.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 2:26:43 PM EDT
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Perfect examples of why there is decreasing popularity.
Imagine updating it to the 21st century. You sit in the passenger seat of a moving golf cart while doing a drive by at some stationary targets. Costume to wear would be baggy jeans, Nike Air basketball shoes, gold jewelry, LA Dodgers baseball cap, and wife beater shirt... or something similar. Of course, just like in Western shooting, the people with more expensive costumes look down on the people with cheaper costumes.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 2:27:28 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By TheNorth:
Why is it corny? If someone finds it enjoyable who are you to call them corny?
I could take a look at your life and probably pick out at least 5 things you do, enjoy, and how you do it and call you corny, or a fool, or a LARPer for it.
It's all subjective.

I've never done it myself, but I'd probably have a lot of fun with it.
Not everything in life has to be "training" while LARPing a SEAL like some corny fool.

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Originally Posted By TheNorth:
Originally Posted By DOW:
Ran out of cool nicknames?

Honestly, it seemed corny as fuck. There can only be so many Katie-Bar-The-Doors.

Why is it corny? If someone finds it enjoyable who are you to call them corny?
I could take a look at your life and probably pick out at least 5 things you do, enjoy, and how you do it and call you corny, or a fool, or a LARPer for it.
It's all subjective.

I've never done it myself, but I'd probably have a lot of fun with it.
Not everything in life has to be "training" while LARPing a SEAL like some corny fool.

Dressing up in out of date clothing that have no functionality, and you would never wear in your every day life is just silly for me personally.

I don't look down on anyone doing it, but that wasn't the question pertaining to this thread. Dropping a bunch of coin to play dress up for no other reason than just to "look the part" is a legitimate claim as to why the popularity is decreasing in my opinion.
Link Posted: 12/3/2018 2:27:53 PM EDT
I haven't shot SASS/CAS for about 2 years. I've been thinking of getting back into it.

The main reasons I think people don't shoot it already have been stated:
1. Dressing up - I don't mind it and have put together several outfits
2. expense of arms - The days of cheap uberti revolvers are long gone.
3. Gamerisms - This is kinda why I quit. Having grown men shooting gamer 38's with barely enough powder to register as a mouse fart is lame. To be more gamer they've even came up with a special 45 load that uses brass shorter than schoefield or 45ACP.
4. Not popular - Westerns aren't popular anymore

Shooting CAS I like how the matches are run. It doesn't take long to reset ranges for the next shooter. Most shoots were 4-7 stages and the match doesn't drag since stages can be reset from shooter to shooter so fast. Usually shoot starts at 10am, over by 2pm.

Yes some of the stages can be hokey, and having alias is cheesy, but most shooting sports are. I've seen an IDPA/IPSC (don't remember) match where you start the stage lying down in bed. Its a game, nothing more.

I wish they would open up the rulebook for period correct arms. The rules are written in such a manner to drive everyone to the same guns. Can't use a 45-70 in main matches, rifles and shotguns have to have exposed hammers, etc. There's plenty of period correct arms that would be fun to use; Krags, 95 Winchesters, 86 Winchesters, Martini Henrys, double action pistols like Webley, etc....all forbidden.
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