[ARCHIVED THREAD] - s/o Why has Cowboy Action Shooting lost so much popularity in the U.S. ? (Poll added) (Page 2 of 10)
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I have no interest in it because I don’t want to dress up like a cowboy. I’m Asian. I have my dignity. There were no Asian cowboys in the old West and I’m not going to pretend there ever was. But if they change it up to be revolver shooting and lever-action rifle shooting in a furry costume, then hellz yeah, I’m in!  Kung Fu: Caine vs 5 men |
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All of the above, plus... It's basically LARPing. |
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Fudds and civilian gamers kill everything good.
3-gun, killed by people gaming it and emphasis on things that weren't meant to be, like shotgun. Started as a mil/LE/private test of the skill and fitness, as it pertained to their work. IDPA, same thing. Points and times, to be damned with any practicallity or tactics. Cowboy, shooting barely loaded ammo, stages to match round counts, and very static (because of the old people?). |
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Our club has a fair sized base of cowboy shooters with a monthly match, as well as hosting the state match.
They dress up in authentic clothes, shoot period correct guns, use old timey nicknames, etc.. I find it somewhat ironic that they demand catered lunches, ride around in golf carts, travel in $500,000 RV's, use the indoor plumbing at our clubhouse. They're opinionated as hell too and seem to only support what's good for their shooting sport, while trying to throw everybody else under the bus. Is it obvious they piss me off? |
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I'm surprised Renaissance fairs are still a thing. Figured those would have died out long ago. I guess there are still enough over weight nerds willing to dress up like Robin Hood and Main Marian to keep those events going... |
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The costume thing is largely club dependent.
Each club sets its own requirements. Some are very simple. Jeans, boots, shirt, hat. Others are very strict. The guns are expensive as shit. Leather is too. Ammo is a great expense. Remember there is practice so it isn't just what gets shot on match day. Reloading is almost mandatory so all that expense comes in as well. Travel adds a lot of expense. |
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As a group or as a whole, when CAS'ers get into a club or range, they tried to take over the whole place. Then range/club funds get diverted into building their store front facades. Then they dictate what the other shooting disciplines can and cannot do. One local club got tired of their politic'ing bullshit and kicked them out and then tore down all their facades. The other thing that just kills it for me....for any competition is you piss away 4 hours and maybe actually get just 1 to 2 minutes of shooting in. I used to shoot USPSA at PASA Park. Us St. Louis guys would carpool 3 hours each way. Six hours of driving plus 3 hours at the range to do 2 minutes if shooting. FUCK THAT SHIT! |
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The guns aren't the issue. I mean, who needs an excuse to buy more guns?
They lose me at period attire. Jeans, ball cap, and some Merrell boots are what I've been wearing to the range lately. Steel Challenge should add some Cowboy divisions. 
ETA - OTOH, as far as costumes go, plenty of 3-gunners like to play dress-up too. 
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I'm surprised Renaissance fairs are still a thing. Figured those would have died out long ago. I guess there are still enough over weight nerds willing to dress up like Robin Hood and Main Marian to keep those events going... A festival is fine by me. I went there last year though, and sorry no costume or LARPing or anything, and it was a bunch of people with little heart in it selling way overpriced novelty items. Zero atmosphere besides people watching. And ya, those people are nerds and dorks, but they're the only reason to even go. They're having fun. How about you? I mean, ya! Bah Humbug! 
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This rare historical colorized photo proves you wrong! http://trackingboard1.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Shanghai-Noon.jpg  |
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As a group or as a whole, when CAS'ers get into a club or range, they tried to take over the whole place. Then range/club funds get diverted into building their store front facades. Then they dictate what the other shooting disciplines can and cannot do. One local club got tired of their politic'ing bullshit and kicked them out and then tore down all their facades. The other thing that just kills it for me....for any competition is you piss away 4 hours and maybe actually get just 1 to 2 minutes of shooting in. I used to shoot USPSA at PASA Park. Us St. Louis guys would carpool 3 hours each way. Six hours of driving plus 3 hours at the range to do 2 minutes if shooting. FUCK THAT SHIT! |
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The dominance of the fake old west Ruger Vaquero and other gamer bullshit is why I have no interest in it. Nothing against the people who shoot it though, most of the members of my range are CAS shooters and they are mostly good people. In 3-gun and USPSA, when I think gamer guns, I think STI Limited .40S&W double stack with the big mag well and barely major loads or Open with an EAA Witness and C-More bolted to it shooting .38 Super with a Ghost belt rig. And a Vaquero looks like a Colt SSA, Beretta Stampede, etc., at least to my untrained eye. |
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Our club has a fair sized base of cowboy shooters with a monthly match, as well as hosting the state match. They dress up in authentic clothes, shoot period correct guns, use old timey nicknames, etc.. I find it somewhat ironic that they demand catered lunches, ride around in golf carts, travel in $500,000 RV's, use the indoor plumbing at our clubhouse. They're opinionated as hell too and seem to only support what's good for their shooting sport, while trying to throw everybody else under the bus. Is it obvious they piss me off? " CAS "should" be a natural ally to Steel Challenge / USPSA / IDPA: - both involve drawing / shooting from the holster (how many Fudd ranges still prohibit "shooting from the leather?? 
- both involve rapid fire (again, Fudd ranges often prohibit it) - both use steel targets (and steel targets are certainly safe) Despite the CAS surge here in the Mid-Atlantic / DC area a few years back, the sport has really crashed locally - inclusding the once-huge "end of trail" shoot up in MD. At that particular host range, there were a small group of complete A-hole CAS shooters who constantly tried to shut down USPSA & IDPA at that range. Major dick-head Fudds who hurt the entire cause of gun ownership. But that small group wasn't the cause of th decline in CAS nationally. I will start a S/O topic on there CAS decline." |
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if there was a local club that did it Id totally be down for it That looks like the greatest and most fun form of larping
I asked one guy if I could shoot without the outfit and I thought he was gonna swing at me 
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I'm surprised Renaissance fairs are still a thing. Figured those would have died out long ago. I guess there are still enough over weight nerds willing to dress up like Robin Hood and Main Marian to keep those events going... Quoted:
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All of the above, plus... It's basically LARPing. |
| Because there are two types of people who shoot it. Those who are there to have fun and play dress up, and those that are serious about winning. There is also a distinct age difference between the two(usually). Guess which group has the most money and time? I'll give you a hint, they're old and retired. Guess which group likes to bitch that they never win anything? |
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I have no interest in it because I don’t want to dress up like a cowboy. I’m Asian. I have my dignity. There were no Asian cowboys in the old West and I’m not going to pretend there ever was. But if they change it up to be revolver shooting and lever-action rifle shooting in a And I don't know how much dignity I have left. |
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Its basically a medium for fat chicks to wear a corset and show off their boobs. Quoted:
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All of the above, plus... It's basically LARPing. |
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Guessing from an outsider perspective. Western movies haven't been a popular genre in movies (as in common releases) for around 40 years. So the majority of the people that would be interested would probably be 50 and up. If the core group is aging and they aren't getting replacements it's going to die off. Everything in life is one generation from extinction. No replacements stuff ends. Besides that the leverguns are expensive the pistols aren't badly priced though. it's cheaper to get an AR a pistol that can be used for multiple things (who's gonna cc a 1873?) and go shoot 2 or 3 gun which makes it easier for younger people to go that route plus since younger people grew up on call of duty et all they will have more interest in that sort of shooting anyways to begin with. My reenactment group did some live fire drills, but it wasn't pervasive in the reenactment community. |
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It especially appealed to folks who grew up watching westerns. That’s an aging population now.
Add to that the cost of the gear and cosplay outfit and the cost of reproduction guns. Most younger folks would rather do action style shooting of some kind without having to be judged on the realism of their costume while shooting mouse fart loads at targets 5 feet away (slight exaggeration). Steel challenge gives the same thing without the expensive guns, costume or special ammo. You can do SC, USPSA or IDPA with a $400 Gun you bought yesterday. |
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I'm pretty ignorant of SASS and single actions, so forgive the question, but... how is a Ruger Vaquero "gamer bullshit"? In 3-gun and USPSA, when I think gamer guns, I think STI Limited .40S&W double stack with the big mag well and barely major loads or Open with an EAA Witness and C-More bolted to it shooting .38 Super with a Ghost belt rig. Quoted:
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The dominance of the fake old west Ruger Vaquero and other gamer bullshit is why I have no interest in it. Nothing against the people who shoot it though, most of the members of my range are CAS shooters and they are mostly good people. In 3-gun and USPSA, when I think gamer guns, I think STI Limited .40S&W double stack with the big mag well and barely major loads or Open with an EAA Witness and C-More bolted to it shooting .38 Super with a Ghost belt rig. Eta: I don't hate Vaqueros or anything. I even own one. But they are not period correct at all. |
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If I could just buy the guns and some leather and go shoot in normal clothes I probably would, the whole dress up thing and having to buy all that crap kills any interest in it. Do you own boots, jeans and a long sleeve shirt? |
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As a group or as a whole, when CAS'ers get into a club or range, they tried to take over the whole place. Then range/club funds get diverted into building their store front facades. Then they dictate what the other shooting disciplines can and cannot do. One local club got tired of their politic'ing bullshit and kicked them out and then tore down all their facades. The other thing that just kills it for me....for any competition is you piss away 4 hours and maybe actually get just 1 to 2 minutes of shooting in. I used to shoot USPSA at PASA Park. Us St. Louis guys would carpool 3 hours each way. Six hours of driving plus 3 hours at the range to do 2 minutes if shooting. FUCK THAT SHIT! But now my sons all about competitive shooting, so back into the fray I go. |
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With all the young people and the Call of Duty effect, I'm really surprised a WWII action shooting group hasn't been started. My reenactment group did some live fire drills, but it wasn't pervasive in the reenactment community. Then there's the fact that most of the "cool" guns in Call of Duty are rare in the wild. Who has regular access to MP-40/MP-44s? Thompsons? BARs? |
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Shelling out for more guns is one thing. Okay, four things. I can do that.
I'm a grown-ass man. I'm not playing dress up unless it's to humor my daughter, and maybe not even then. And I'm damn sure not going to go around in public asking people to call me Rootin' Tootin' Fresh and Frootin' Centrarchidae. It doesn't help that... Okay, see my signature. Then add a damn dress code. Any shooting discipline I can't do in my New Balances, cargos, and lucky Grateful Dead Summer Tour 1990 t-shirt, I want no part of. And since this is Post 3006, to the guy who mentioned WWII action shooting, a few friends and I shot an IDPA rifle side match with Garands just to be smartasses. They worked, I guess, up until we got yelled at about tactical reloads. FWIW. |
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It is a fully modern design that, IMO, totally defeats the purpose of what the sport was/is supposed to be. It only looks like a Colt Single Action Army. Mechanically they are totally different. They use them because they are easier to tune and are perceived to be safer due to having a transfer bar (though they only load 5 anyway). Eta: I don't hate Vaqueros or anything. I even own one. But they are not period correct at all. The 1873 Winchester is also horiffically gamed. Different lifters/levers and presto! the lever only needs to move 2 inches to cycle. Now, couple these gamer guns with gamer ammo that are akin to gallery loads at best and you get competitive SASS. The rounds I shoot are by no means magnum loads, but there is a world of difference in the sound of a "tink" of a gamer 32 vs the "thud/clang" of a 250g 45LC. Gamers also don't like real BP shooters. I really like them. CAS is one of the few times I regularly see BP pistols being shot. |
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All of the above.
My main reason for not joining was the requirement of western clothes. I'll use a goofy name, but looking like somebody playing cowboy is a bit much for my liking. I shot the course once the competition was over. I would have done OK considering I was a first timer. (read: not last )
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The costume thing is largely club dependent. Each club sets its own requirements. Some are very simple. Jeans, boots, shirt, hat. Others are very strict. The guns are expensive as shit. Leather is too. Ammo is a great expense. Remember there is practice so it isn't just what gets shot on match day. Reloading is almost mandatory so all that expense comes in as well. Travel adds a lot of expense. If they were smart they'd have options for shooting stages with single guns. In the real west people didn't run around with carts carrying a bunch of guns. They made due with one or two. |
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Quoted: Its the targets. SASS shoot lead bullets at steel targets. A WWII rifle like the Garand, G-43, Mosin, etc. would shred steel targets. If you're shooting at any distance, then the time to register scores becomes an issue. Then there's the cost. 100 rounds of M-2 Ball makes 45LC look cheap. Then there's the fact that most of the "cool" guns in Call of Duty are rare in the wild. Who has regular access to MP-40/MP-44s? Thompsons? BARs? A USPSA jacketed open bullet (a 124 grain at 1330+ FPS) will tent to crater some CAS steel with one shot. There are a few steel manufacturers who use AR500 steel for their CAS targets. Some, but not all. |
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Vaqueros are a modern design. You run a old Colt too fast/hard and parts will break. Vaqueros use modern coil springs. They're far easier to tune, polish, customize. I've seen vaqueros with free spin pawls that had such polished cylinders that the rounds would just fall out with no need to use the ejector. Spring packages make cocking and trigger release a breeze and it takes no effort to install. To get a SAA to function like that it will take a gunsmith who knows what they're doing. The 1873 Winchester is also horiffically gamed. Different lifters/levers and presto! the lever only needs to move 2 inches to cycle. Now, couple these gamer guns with gamer ammo that are akin to gallery loads at best and you get competitive SASS. The rounds I shoot are by no means magnum loads, but there is a world of difference in the sound of a "tink" of a gamer 32 vs the "thud/clang" of a 250g 45LC. Gamers also don't like real BP shooters. I really like them. CAS is one of the few times I regularly see BP pistols being shot. Quoted:
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It is a fully modern design that, IMO, totally defeats the purpose of what the sport was/is supposed to be. It only looks like a Colt Single Action Army. Mechanically they are totally different. They use them because they are easier to tune and are perceived to be safer due to having a transfer bar (though they only load 5 anyway). Eta: I don't hate Vaqueros or anything. I even own one. But they are not period correct at all. The 1873 Winchester is also horiffically gamed. Different lifters/levers and presto! the lever only needs to move 2 inches to cycle. Now, couple these gamer guns with gamer ammo that are akin to gallery loads at best and you get competitive SASS. The rounds I shoot are by no means magnum loads, but there is a world of difference in the sound of a "tink" of a gamer 32 vs the "thud/clang" of a 250g 45LC. Gamers also don't like real BP shooters. I really like them. CAS is one of the few times I regularly see BP pistols being shot. |
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I am 34 and grew up on old westerns, Gunsmoke, John Wayne and Clint. I love the era and the firearms.
Expensive and pretty much what everybody else is saying. I did stumble upon mounted cowboy action shooting at the state fair... now that was pretty interesting. Yeah they used wax bullets but it was pretty cool to watch. |
| Old people dying. It's killed a lot of hobbies. Even flying. All of the pilots in our club are fast approaching the age where they can't fly anymore and there's almost no enthusiasm among young people to learn to fly. I guess sitting on your ass, staring a cell phone is more fun than knowing how to fly a plane... you know, something useful. |