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Posted: 12/3/2020 12:56:24 AM EDT
[#1]
Everyone talking about chokes... how do chokes affect slugs?
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Posted: 12/3/2020 12:57:43 AM EDT
[#2]
The main thing is reaffirms why I built a 450bm
But I don’t think I would ever trust this stuff for home defense or shooting hogs I don’t want to shoot it out of my nicer shotguns and know the barrel isn’t bent since I can smoke waterfowl easily with it I never thought to pattern it since I had such good luck with waterfowl and or target loads |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 12:58:02 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Everyone talking about chokes... how do chokes affect slugs? OP, 00 buck is REALLY gun dependent. I have a Mossberg 590 that will pattern well with anything, and I have a Benelli M1 that will throw pellets every direction except forward unless I use Federal reduced recoil buck. That said, if I'm hunting and I actually want to eat, I would use a slug, or a rifle. If I was pursuing a 2 legged varmint at medium to long range (and 25 yards is medium range) I would use a slug, or a rifle. MAYBE If I was in my home I might consider buckshot, but probably it would be #4 to help with overpenetration issues, 00 will penetrate walls the same as a pistol. I still prefer a rifle with proper ammo in this case. |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 12:58:12 AM EDT
[#4]
I think that a lot of people dismiss shotguns all together when they hear the talk about rifles being a better choice for self defense in most situations. If you ever run into someone who used shotguns for most if not all of their gun needs you would learn that they are pretty effective killers. I've known a few people that lost track of how many dear and black bear they rolled with buckshot. There aren't many situations where a shotgun would be my first choice but there are also not many situations that I couldn't figure out with a shotgun and feel good about it.
There's a ton of advancement in shotgun ammo which is cool. As mentioned something like Vang Comp will improve the patterning of cheaper buckshot loads or you can buy the good buckshot to shoot. |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 1:02:28 AM EDT
[#5]
 Attached FileCheap buckshot seems to spread far in open cylinder bore Flite control was (not pictured) works great and almost seems too tight a pattern (not really though). |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 4:19:06 AM EDT
[#6]
Does you shotgun have a rifled barrel? A rifled barrel is for sabot slugs not rifled slugs not buckshot not bird shot. A rifled barrel spins the wad causing buckshot or bird shot to throw an extremely wide pattern. You shoot buckshot and bird shot out of barrels that do not have rifling in the barrel smooth bore only. You may need a different barrel.
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Posted: 12/3/2020 4:28:58 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted: Does you shotgun have a rifled barrel? A rifled barrel is for sabot slugs not rifled slugs not buckshot not bird shot. A rifled barrel spins the wad causing buckshot or bird shot to throw an extremely wide pattern. You shoot buckshot and bird shot out of barrels that do not have rifling in the barrel smooth bore only. You may need a different barrel. Who are you asking? The OP said he had an improved cylinder barrel. |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 4:40:51 AM EDT
[#8]
I know a guy that took a load of buckshot in the ass at 20yds on the family hunting land. His senile old prick of a step dad was walking back from his stand and spun and fired at a noise. He was in a wheel chair for a couple of years. He lost his cock and balls and needs a colostomy bag.
Buckshot will fuck you up. |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 4:46:54 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know a guy that took a load of buckshot in the ass at 20yds on the family hunting land. His senile old prick of a step dad was walking back from his stand and spun and fired at a noise. He was in a wheel chair for a couple of years. He lost his cock and balls and needs a colostomy bag. Buckshot will fuck you up. Man that is fucked up 
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Posted: 12/3/2020 4:47:38 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You need to pattern your gun.. First Post. Also "More Pellets" doesn't always equal "More Hits" if you have soft lead non-buffered pellets using poor wad / shotcup design ammo. |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 4:51:47 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do people hunt with it? You can't in NY (state motto) Y'all need to do a Obama-esque poster of Cuomo with NO YOU CAN'T for everyone in NY...  @aimless |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 4:57:40 AM EDT
[#12]
#4 buck for bobcats and coyotes
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Posted: 12/3/2020 4:58:20 AM EDT
[#13]
Tag. Good info on here.
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Posted: 12/3/2020 5:48:55 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Federal Flite Control Yes |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 6:11:17 AM EDT
[#15]
I like shotguns and grew up shooting them years before I touched off my first AR. Shotguns can and will fuck shit up.
The rule of thumb for C or IC barrels and regular ammo is that you get about an inch of spread for every yard of distance. So at 25 yards you had a ~25” cluster of pellets. If a goose is 10” across and you aimed dead center 4 pellets in there is pretty good. Replace with a choke or use good flight control ammo and you could tighten that group considerably, most likely keep all pellets in 10” depending on your gun. 00 buck is just shy the size of a 9mm bullet. You get 8 of them going at the speed of sound every time you pull the trigger. So imagine a target getting hit with the entire load out of an M&P shield at once. Gets it done. That said buck is impossible to find right now so you could probably sell your flats for 3x what you paid and pick up some flight control when the prices come back down |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 6:15:58 AM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: So I’ve been a believer of buckshot for years Actually used it today on a goose sized gel target at about 25 yards. 00 3” IC 20” barrel Amazed at how few pellets made contact with the gel, maybe 4 pellets that I could recover Is buckshot legal for deer anywhere? I have a ton of this crap in 2.75 and 3 just because it was cheap If you have a need to get rid of it IM me. 
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Posted: 12/3/2020 6:19:29 AM EDT
[#17]
Back bore the barrel and choke it correctly = world of difference.
Federal with the flight control wad is da shit.   
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Posted: 12/3/2020 6:25:47 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have seen it with buckshot and slugs. However, in the early 2000s this stuff called PolyShok was issued which was designed for hostage rescue teams. That shit will straight rip a dude in half. I have no idea why it all disappeared. Maybe cost. I still have quite a bit of it tucked away. They (Polyshok) went out of business.... It was just birdshot inside a plastic casing that stayed together. So at 25 yds you get a slug sized hit, that instantly frags completely. We used a shitload of it for door breaching and training as it is perfect for that as well. Kind of a bummer when they went out of business. Some agencies went back to everyone carrying two different rounds for two different purposes again. Edit to add- Federal Flight Control is absolutely the biggest improvement in Buckshot ever. So long as you hit the target, they are going to be messed up seriously. |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 6:29:59 AM EDT
[#19]
Buckshot.
Now this is what my instructors called a “clue.” Chop the word in half. Buck. Shot Buck, in context is not a dollar or a stand for sawyering. It is, however, a word for a male hoofed ruminant mammal in the family Cervidae. In short, tasty critters. Shot in this case is a projectile intended to make eating male hoofed ruminant mammals of the family Cervidae easier than trying to eat them whilst they are alive and able to object. So buckshot is what you use to make tasty critters easier to eat. |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 6:35:34 AM EDT
[#20]
I killed my first deer with buckshot...this was almost 50 years ago.
My Dad knew next to nothing about guns, all we had were shotguns and .22's. He was a meat hunter, and killed a ton of rabbits and pheasants, but was not a deer hunter. When I came of age, I wanted to hunt deer. He obliged, largely I think because at that time a deer was a rare occurrence around here. I don't think he had any idea we would actually kill one. I took his old Stevens 311 side x side, and started shooting slugs and buck shot from it, just to see what it would do. Somehow, in my pre-teen brain, I decided that slugs out of the full choke barrel and buckshot out of the modified barrel was just the ticket. The day after Thanksgiving I found a deer track, and followed it. And followed it. I followed that deer all day, to the point where it quit paying attention to me. Late in the afternoon I bumped it at about 20 yards. It stood broadside staring at me, I gave it the buckshot barrel right on the shoulder. It went down and I still think that was the deadest deer I have ever killed. Granted it was just a yearling, and they aren't as durable as a mature deer, but it just went limp. DRT. Point being...figure out how your gun throws buckshot. It is definitely a close range proposition, and the "blow him across the room" nonsense you see on TV is nonsense. But in the right application, it kills stuff dead as dead can be. ALL OF THAT SAID....try some slugs out of your shotgun also. You will undoubtedly get better performance from an IC barrel with slugs at 25 yards than with buckshot. |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 6:46:08 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does you shotgun have a rifled barrel? A rifled barrel is for sabot slugs not rifled slugs not buckshot not bird shot. A rifled barrel spins the wad causing buckshot or bird shot to throw an extremely wide pattern. You shoot buckshot and bird shot out of barrels that do not have rifling in the barrel smooth bore only. You may need a different barrel. This is what I was thinking. Also as the Ga op noted I'm in SC and we use it quite often. I have a 18" Mossburg and shot a 3x choke. With 3.5" I have killed multiple slick heads over 100 yards screaming across a field in front of a pack of hounds. You have to find the right set up. When you said there was no choke I immediately thought you have a rifled barrel or either you didn't know the choke is on the inside of the barrel, but after reading more of your posts I opted for scenario 1. 2.5" will group fine out of that gun as well but if your going for accuracy via volume the 3.5" have more pellets. Interestingly enough that gun has to have the choke changed for it to eat 3" with any accuracy. The 100 yard is the far extreme, but just to show it can be done. But you should be able to eat up 50-60 yards all day. Again, get a barrel that can be choked. At 25 same gun will take a deer head and turn it into one of those watermelons back from the days of Mail Call. I've actually missed deer with gun at distances under 15 due to the pattern being so tight and me underestimating how fast said deer was running. Moral of the story get a new barrel that you can choke and I bet you can shoot said cheap 00Buck |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 6:48:57 AM EDT
[#22]
Used here in the marsh for Sika deer.
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Posted: 12/3/2020 6:56:10 AM EDT
[#23]
A swarm of .380s addressed "to whom it may concern" after 15 yards with one trigger pull isn't obvious enough?
 Kharn |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 6:57:46 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Used here in the marsh for Sika deer. I thought slug was required for all deer in MD, or is that only whitetail? Kharn |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 7:00:52 AM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: 00 buck is just shy the size of a 9mm bullet. You get 8 of them going at the speed of sound every time you pull the trigger. So imagine a target getting hit with the entire load out of an M&P shield at once. Gets it done. It’s really not like 9mm though. 32 acp would be a better comparison but still not a good fit with how light buckshot pellets are. |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 7:02:10 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ...and also try several different loads, you may be surprised how different the pattern varies in size between loads. This |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 7:02:18 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fixed choke barrel so not like I can do anything Zero issues using typical bird loads I have many other options but I was hoping to use it on hogs just because I have a couple flats Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You need to pattern your gun.. Fixed choke barrel so not like I can do anything Zero issues using typical bird loads I have many other options but I was hoping to use it on hogs just because I have a couple flats |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 7:11:40 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought slug was required for all deer in MD, or is that only whitetail? Kharn Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Used here in the marsh for Sika deer. I thought slug was required for all deer in MD, or is that only whitetail? Kharn @Kharn Dorchester county. Started hunting there in the '70s. Still get over there occasionally. Folks been known to use buck in a blackpowder shotgun during ML season. Phrag is thick, shots are sudden and close. "Shotgun ammunition used for deer hunting must shoot a single solid projectile except in Dorchester County, where #1 buckshot or larger may be used. " |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 7:19:40 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Kharn Dorchester county. Started hunting there in the '70s. Still get over there occasionally. Folks been known to use buck in a blackpowder shotgun during ML season. Phrag is thick, shots are sudden and close. "Shotgun ammunition used for deer hunting must shoot a single solid projectile except in Dorchester County, where #1 buckshot or larger may be used. " Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Used here in the marsh for Sika deer. I thought slug was required for all deer in MD, or is that only whitetail? Kharn @Kharn Dorchester county. Started hunting there in the '70s. Still get over there occasionally. Folks been known to use buck in a blackpowder shotgun during ML season. Phrag is thick, shots are sudden and close. "Shotgun ammunition used for deer hunting must shoot a single solid projectile except in Dorchester County, where #1 buckshot or larger may be used. " Dorchester, always carving out special exceptions for themselves.  Kharn |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 7:23:09 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dorchester, always carving out special exceptions for themselves. Kharn Don't know if you recall Senator Fred Malkus from over there. That's his work. Used to hunt their land. He'd pull up in his Oldsmobile, Pabst in hand. Early in the am.... |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 7:27:22 AM EDT
[#31]
Needs a full choke gun.
People shoot bucks with buckshot here all the time. It’s not my thing but it is very common in the low country. |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 7:27:54 AM EDT
[#32]
It's not for birds...
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Posted: 12/3/2020 7:43:49 AM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: So I’ve been a believer of buckshot for years Actually used it today on a goose sized gel target at about 25 yards. 00 3” IC 20” barrel Amazed at how few pellets made contact with the gel, maybe 4 pellets that I could recover Is buckshot legal for deer anywhere? I have a ton of this crap in 2.75 and 3 just because it was cheap Pattern your shotgun. Find a load it likes. in my 870 Express (28 in barrel) I use two loads... 3' #1 buck (24 pellet Win. Super X) with a Modified choke effective out to 40 yds. And 3" 00 buck (15 pellet Remington Express) with a BuckKikker Extra full choke that will put 15 pellets that you can cover with a spread hand at 50 yds. I have killed numerous deer with these two loads, in front of dogs and just regular hunting. When used correctly out of a patterned shotgun buckshot is effective as hell on deer. |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 8:03:30 AM EDT
[#34]
Quoted: So I’ve been a believer of buckshot for years Actually used it today on a goose sized gel target at about 25 yards. 00 3” IC 20” barrel Amazed at how few pellets made contact with the gel, maybe 4 pellets that I could recover Is buckshot legal for deer anywhere? I have a ton of this crap in 2.75 and 3 just because it was cheap! 1. Pattern your gun 2. How far away were you? 3. Try flitecontrol shells. I have a serbu with an 8 inch barrel that will produce astonishingly tight, like full choke tight, groups at 25 yards with flitecontrol. That shit is da bomb! |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 8:10:06 AM EDT
[#35]
2 weeks ago my 16 year old son killed a bear at 15 yards with double ought buckshot.
Bear was running towards him, one shot and it was dead. He then fired 3 more and seemed to miss it. Guess a mix of excitement and fear took over. Hit it in the neck and head. Only found 3 plated 00 pellets and 1 lead 00 pellet in the bear. Bear was 205 lbs. |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 8:12:51 AM EDT
[#36]
I live in a “Buckshot Only” county. I have dropped deer DRT with Remington 3” Premier 00 at 35 yards with a Modified choke.
What was your actually pellet spread? |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 8:19:19 AM EDT
[#37]
OP said "I have tons of this.." and "IC" fixed choke barrel so no need to suggest anything but test patterning at different distances. As others have said, 25 yds is close to the outer limit of 00 buck. I wouldn't be afraid to use this on hogs but be ready to haul ass if you miss
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Posted: 12/3/2020 8:21:59 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You need to pattern your gun.. Quote HistoryQuoted: You need to pattern your gun.. Yup. I use buckshot in my 590A1 for home defense. It’s really only good for 10 - 15 yards if that. Anything beyond that and it opens up. Quoted: Flite control wad This is what I use and I still think 25 yards with Flite Control is pushing it. |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 8:24:33 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you are losing buckshot hits at 25 yards on a man sized target you are aiming too high. Bead the belly. Not sure what a gel goose looks like. smaller than a spam lamb |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 8:34:45 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For me, 35 yards is about the limit to get all 9 center mass.. Plated buckshot works best in a VangComp barrel. FCW rounds will not do as well but in a standard barrel they work great. Yep, I got flustered once with a brand new 870 Police. Prior to our shotgun qual we grounded the long guns on the line in the sun for our safety brief. The guns got quite hot baking in the sun, when we went to start I couldn’t load my mag tube, the plastic follower stuck to the tube. Senior range gun had to take the new gun and hammer the follower out, sanded it and reinstalled it. Me holding up the line rushed and loaded my buck instead of slugs. At 50 yards I was still getting 7 of 9 on the silhouette. I cannot swear to it but we might have been usung flite control by then. |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 8:36:23 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Flite control wad That sounds...........kinky. |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 8:37:17 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you are losing buckshot hits at 25 yards on a man sized target you are aiming too high. Bead the belly. Not sure what a gel goose looks like.  |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 8:40:09 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Flite control wad |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 8:41:51 AM EDT
[#44]
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Posted: 12/3/2020 8:48:10 AM EDT
[#45]
Here's my 2 cents.
Cheap buckshot is better than no buckshot. Cheap buckshot is generally good for 15 yards on deer (going off pattern, I've never hunted with it). 25 yards on bipedal varmints. Good buckshot (flight control) is good for about 30 yards on deer, or 40 on biped. Some loads pattern better than others. There seems to be something about 8p low recoil that everyone has great luck with. The magnum loads usually pattern for shit, but at close range, it doesn't matter. Some 3" 15p hot loads will wake your ass up. Sometimes, take what you can get. I bought a couple cases of s&b #4 low recoil, like 25 or 27p. Patterns a little big, but makes up for it in density. I bet it'll kill anything smaller than elk no problem. Probably not enough oomph for bears though. I have serious concerns about using buckshot on game animals as intended, because of the major risk of gut shot. While ideally the deer will be dead pretty quick, by the time you field dress it, it will probably be a disgusting mess of stomach contents. I've gut shot a deer before. It sucks, trust me, you want nothing to do with that literal shit. Rifled slugs can be just as picky. I have had no luck with the fancy tru-ball from federal. The best performers out of my two 12s and the wifes 20 are generic winchester white box. Because my 590 is picky and has to have the 3" shells, that's what I stock in 12ga. The 12ga-500 will shoot 2¾ slightly better, but not enough for me to bother. The 20ga-500 isn't very picky. I have some PMC low recoil slugs, they shoot OK, but much lower than the others. Almost 2' at 50yds low. Other slugs tend to just be a little low from the 3" winchesters. It's not the velocity, in other guns they all shoot on the same paper. There's a certain voodoo to the scattergun, which is why there's so many different shells. Nobody knows why the patterns will change so drastically between similar loads with similar technology. You just have to try it. It can really suck blowing all that money on shells that don't work, and punishing your shoulder like that, but you have to do it. |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 8:48:14 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Personally, I use Buckshot for 2 legged varmints. I use a 35 Whelen for Deer. But yes, it is legal and effective on Deer under the right circumstances Another member or the 35 Whelen club. Have three: Remington 750 auto carbine Remington 7600 pump carbine Remington 7600 pump rifle Remember I’m in the mountains not flat open ground. |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 8:48:45 AM EDT
[#47]
Works great for pigs if you don't plan on eating them. I killed 11 of the bastards in 3 shots a couple of years ago. 40-70lb. each at 60 yds. with 3.5 in. 00 buck & full choked SBEII.
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Posted: 12/3/2020 8:49:59 AM EDT
[#48]
op's shotgun sucks.
i can put a full shell of buckshot into a pie plate at 25 yards.. buckshot is badass.. as long as you are realistic about its effective range. |
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Posted: 12/3/2020 8:55:34 AM EDT
[#49]
Yes people hunt with it to great success. Some states don’t allow it for hunting. Most southern states do we have thick swamp areas and shots are close. It is very effective within reasonable as designed distances.
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Posted: 12/3/2020 9:00:09 AM EDT
[#50]
Quoted: If you're using Cylinder, or Improved Cylinder they don't affect anything. If you use a modified or full choke you will probably kill the barrel. OP, 00 buck is REALLY gun dependent. I have a Mossberg 590 that will pattern well with anything, and I have a Benelli M1 that will throw pellets every direction except forward unless I use Federal reduced recoil buck. That said, if I'm hunting and I actually want to eat, I would use a slug, or a rifle. If I was pursuing a 2 legged varmint at medium to long range (and 25 yards is medium range) I would use a slug, or a rifle. MAYBE If I was in my home I might consider buckshot, but probably it would be #4 to help with overpenetration issues, 00 will penetrate walls the same as a pistol. I still prefer a rifle with proper ammo in this case. Quoted: If you're using Cylinder, or Improved Cylinder they don't affect anything. If you use a modified or full choke you will probably kill the barrel. OP, 00 buck is REALLY gun dependent. I have a Mossberg 590 that will pattern well with anything, and I have a Benelli M1 that will throw pellets every direction except forward unless I use Federal reduced recoil buck. That said, if I'm hunting and I actually want to eat, I would use a slug, or a rifle. If I was pursuing a 2 legged varmint at medium to long range (and 25 yards is medium range) I would use a slug, or a rifle. MAYBE If I was in my home I might consider buckshot, but probably it would be #4 to help with overpenetration issues, 00 will penetrate walls the same as a pistol. I still prefer a rifle with proper ammo in this case. @Deadtired this my general experience also. Slug shooting is cylinder or rifled bored with iron or optic sights. Buckshot needs to be patterned. |
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