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Posted: 10/6/2022 8:49:42 AM EDT
I know, I know, don't ask the internet for legal advice. I don't have anywhere else to turn.
I have a, now former, client who has apparently had some sort of mental health crisis and has decided I've done her very wrong (I haven't). She is trying to get a refund on the $5k commission she paid me on a horse sale. Work on the assumption that everything she's accusing me of has been twisted or is a blatant fabrication. Would this constitute a threat of extortion? I actually had 71.75 hours in October so you still owe me at least $250. You also owe me $750 for the labor in August that wasn’t applied towards anything. You took advantage of my generosity when I offered to help with barn chores when you told me that your wife had placenta previa and could lose her baby if she continue doing regular barn chores, and now you won’t pay me for the labor? Yesterday, I met with a Cleveland attorney who specializes in equine law. You may have a board contract for the first horse but it is unlikely, as it was never duly executed or delivered to me in the required manner. No other board agreement was offered. Additionally, even if you had a requirement for 30 day notice to vacate, you have never previously enforced it, and have told me so many times. You have set your own standard there, it is unenforceable. There IS an industry standard, as it turns out, to represent someone in the purchase of a horse. You have not met any of the standards. As you are a professional, you are deemed aware of those standards and how you have breached them. Your fiduciary obligation did not rise to the industry standard and I am entitled to a refund of the commission. I’m going to sell [horse] as quickly as I can, and because we believe you coerced me into buying that horse, including using [wife's] excitement at the “homecoming” of a horse she bred and birthed, we will also seek any loss realized when she sells, including transport and PPE fees. We do not believe that you satisfied your obligation to train any of my horses in any of the full or partial training plans paid for. We will seek a refund of some of those fees as well. The details of how you took advantage of my trust in you as a professional horseman and coerced me into buying a horse that is unsuitable for me, including the emotional abuse I suffered, watching you treat various horses (including your own) with cruelty, listening to you demean and belittle other riders and clients, and subtly threatening me by carrying a gun in the barn and refusing to discuss the need to be armed for morning barn chores at 6am when I am the the only other person there, will be detailed in the complaint. This is a final respectful and private request to settle this matter. Please Venmo $4250 today. View Quote |
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Saber rattling. Haven’t made it Untik you get one sent.
Ask a lawyer who specializes in this. Most likely tell them to get bent in letter or offer her a dollar to go away |
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Saber rattling. Haven’t made it Untik you get one sent.
Ask a lawyer who specializes in this. Most likely tell them to get bent in letter or offer her a dollar to go away |
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You: Your honor....horse chicks be crazy.
Judge: Case dismissed. |
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Not a lawyer. No, not likely extortion. Lawyer up. She has, you’re behind the power curve.
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Quoted: Not a lawyer. No, not likely extortion. Lawyer up. She has, you’re behind the power curve. View Quote Not even remotely possible unfortunately. She's a lawyer herself and we suspect she's living off the proceeds from her felon ex husband's $41 million ponzi scheme. I'll have to borrow money to pay her off. We can't afford to get into a protracted legal battle. In addition, because our sport is in the olympics,, we fall under the extra judicial jurisdiction of Safe Sport. Safe Sport has zero compunction with ruining peoples' reputations with no evidence. They've destroyed several pillars of the equestrian community based on 40+ year old allegations. |
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Quoted: I know, I know, don't ask the internet for legal advice. I don't have anywhere else to turn. I have a, now former, client who has apparently had some sort of mental health crisis and has decided I've done her very wrong (I haven't). She is trying to get a refund on the $5k commission she paid me on a horse sale. Work on the assumption that everything she's accusing me of has been twisted or is a blatant fabrication. Would this constitute a threat of extortion? I actually had 71.75 hours in October so you still owe me at least $250. You also owe me $750 for the labor in August that wasn’t applied towards anything. You took advantage of my generosity when I offered to help with barn chores when you told me that your wife had placenta previa and could lose her baby if she continue doing regular barn chores, and now you won’t pay me for the labor? Yesterday, I met with a Cleveland attorney who specializes in equine law. You may have a board contract for the first horse but it is unlikely, as it was never duly executed or delivered to me in the required manner. No other board agreement was offered. Additionally, even if you had a requirement for 30 day notice to vacate, you have never previously enforced it, and have told me so many times. You have set your own standard there, it is unenforceable. There IS an industry standard, as it turns out, to represent someone in the purchase of a horse. You have not met any of the standards. As you are a professional, you are deemed aware of those standards and how you have breached them. Your fiduciary obligation did not rise to the industry standard and I am entitled to a refund of the commission. I’m going to sell [horse] as quickly as I can, and because we believe you coerced me into buying that horse, including using [wife's] excitement at the “homecoming” of a horse she bred and birthed, we will also seek any loss realized when she sells, including transport and PPE fees. We do not believe that you satisfied your obligation to train any of my horses in any of the full or partial training plans paid for. We will seek a refund of some of those fees as well. The details of how you took advantage of my trust in you as a professional horseman and coerced me into buying a horse that is unsuitable for me, including the emotional abuse I suffered, watching you treat various horses (including your own) with cruelty, listening to you demean and belittle other riders and clients, and subtly threatening me by carrying a gun in the barn and refusing to discuss the need to be armed for morning barn chores at 6am when I am the the only other person there, will be detailed in the complaint. This is a final respectful and private request to settle this matter. Please Venmo $4250 today. View Quote View Quote Not extortion. Just plain old business dealings that you may have to address in civil court. No name of any lawyer just a Cleveland attorney. She didn't meet with any attorney, she would have named names and the attorney would be contacting you as the meeting with an attorney would have cost something. She is not asking for attorney's fees. Sounds like a disgruntled client I think you have 3 options.......... 1. ignore it 2. offer to meet face to face without attorney's and come to some agreement. 3. get an attorney on retainer for possible civil litigation |
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Quoted: I know, I know, don't ask the internet for legal advice. I don't have anywhere else to turn. I have a, now former, client who has apparently had some sort of mental health crisis and has decided I've done her very wrong (I haven't). She is trying to get a refund on the $5k commission she paid me on a horse sale. Work on the assumption that everything she's accusing me of has been twisted or is a blatant fabrication. Would this constitute a threat of extortion? I actually had 71.75 hours in October so you still owe me at least $250. You also owe me $750 for the labor in August that wasn’t applied towards anything. You took advantage of my generosity when I offered to help with barn chores when you told me that your wife had placenta previa and could lose her baby if she continue doing regular barn chores, and now you won’t pay me for the labor? Yesterday, I met with a Cleveland attorney who specializes in equine law. You may have a board contract for the first horse but it is unlikely, as it was never duly executed or delivered to me in the required manner. No other board agreement was offered. Additionally, even if you had a requirement for 30 day notice to vacate, you have never previously enforced it, and have told me so many times. You have set your own standard there, it is unenforceable. There IS an industry standard, as it turns out, to represent someone in the purchase of a horse. You have not met any of the standards. As you are a professional, you are deemed aware of those standards and how you have breached them. Your fiduciary obligation did not rise to the industry standard and I am entitled to a refund of the commission. I’m going to sell [horse] as quickly as I can, and because we believe you coerced me into buying that horse, including using [wife's] excitement at the “homecoming” of a horse she bred and birthed, we will also seek any loss realized when she sells, including transport and PPE fees. We do not believe that you satisfied your obligation to train any of my horses in any of the full or partial training plans paid for. We will seek a refund of some of those fees as well. The details of how you took advantage of my trust in you as a professional horseman and coerced me into buying a horse that is unsuitable for me, including the emotional abuse I suffered, watching you treat various horses (including your own) with cruelty, listening to you demean and belittle other riders and clients, and subtly threatening me by carrying a gun in the barn and refusing to discuss the need to be armed for morning barn chores at 6am when I am the the only other person there, will be detailed in the complaint. This is a final respectful and private request to settle this matter. Please Venmo $4250 today. View Quote View Quote I would tell her to pound sand! |
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Thats a lot of accusations. I wonder how much if any of it is true.
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I don't think extortion.
Note all her complaints and be prepared to address them in court. If you have a lawyer message her and tell her any further communication can be sent to counsel. If you don't, politely express that you consider the matter closed and bid her good day. Read up on OH small claims court procedures. Her claim falls under the 6K limit. I don't think I'd lawyer up as it will rapidly cost you more money than even a judgment against you. |
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Horse boarding, horse selling and quasi-legal semi-compensated barn chores in exchange for boarding?
These shit shows are always amazing clusterfucks of self-inflicted damage by all parties. |
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Extortion or not, it's a bluff.
If she had spent the money on a lawyer and had a case he wouldn't have told her to make a demand to be paid via Venmo. |
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I’m not a lawyer, but I wouldn’t consider that extortion.
Stop responding to her. You aren’t going to accomplish anything by entertaining her bullshit. |
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The one part that seems threatening is the criticism of your wearing a firearm to do chores and how it will be “discussed”.
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Quoted: The one part that seems threatening is the criticism of your wearing a firearm to do chores and how it will be “discussed”. View Quote That's one of my biggest concerns too. Like I said, we've had issues with the tweaker that leaves in front of our farm, thus I carry. She's now claiming that constitutes a threat towards her. Thanks for the other posts guys. I should have mentioned that herself is a lawyer (estates) as well. To the poster above suggesting it will go to small claims, it would be over $6k with everything she's talking about going after me for. $5k commission, and multiple thousands in reference to losses incurred from selling the horse at a loss. I've reached out to the attorney handling another suit we're involved in regarding the fire that destroyed our barn a few years back. |
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Extortion?
No. It's someone saying you owe them money, or they owe you less money, or whatever, and for whatever reasoning... ... and they are going to file suit if some agreement isn't reached. |
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Quoted: Thats a lot of accusations. I wonder how much if any of it is true. View Quote Essentially none of it is factual. I performed my duties as a trainer representing her in the sale as a buyer. I could subpoena 30 other trainers that would back me up on that. She has decided that the horse is "too good for her" and that she won't be able to do it justice. Quoted: Horse boarding, horse selling and quasi-legal semi-compensated barn chores in exchange for boarding? These shit shows are always amazing clusterfucks of self-inflicted damage by all parties. View Quote Yeah, this has pretty much destroyed any remaining trust I have in clients. I truly did nothing but try this woman to the best of my abilities to help her achieve her goals. This has crushed my wife and me. |
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Quoted: Extortion? No. It's someone saying you owe them money, or they owe you less money, or whatever, and for whatever reasoning... ... and they are going to file suit if some agreement isn't reached. View Quote Again, that's what I figured, just haven't dealt with this degree of insanity yet. |
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I doubt she has a lawyer. The lawyer would have sent the letter.
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Hire a lawyer to accept a letter from her attorney
Send her the address of said attorney and to contact them in all future correspondents You wont hear from her again |
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Quoted: Not even remotely possible unfortunately. She's a lawyer herself and we suspect she's living off the proceeds from her felon ex husband's $41 million ponzi scheme. I'll have to borrow money to pay her off. We can't afford to get into a protracted legal battle. In addition, because our sport is in the olympics,, we fall under the extra judicial jurisdiction of Safe Sport. Safe Sport has zero compunction with ruining peoples' reputations with no evidence. They've destroyed several pillars of the equestrian community based on 40+ year old allegations. View Quote It sounds like you have already made up your mind. And.. it sounds like she knows this, and thats why she feels entitled to come at you. If you are in the right, and she is lying.. then fight. I'd rather fight and sleep at night, then cave to someone trying to rob me. Just saying.. In my business, I have. And yes, it sucks, but when you are in the right, you usually win eventually. And learn from it... at the least, get a lawyer to draw up your boarding policies and contracts, and have everyone sign them. Get ironclad. |
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Quoted: I doubt she has a lawyer. The lawyer would have sent the letter. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Snip Thanks for the other posts guys. I should have mentioned that herself is a lawyer (estates) as well. Snip |
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Tell her to contact your attorney. If you don't have one you need to find one.
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She spoke with an attorney, and yet you're hearing from her.
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Quoted: Hire a lawyer to accept a letter from her attorney Send her the address of said attorney and to contact them in all future correspondents You wont hear from her again View Quote This. Plus if she had hired an attorney the demand letter would have come from them. The firearm issue is just loud talk from someone who is trying to bolster her weak facts. |
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Quoted: Hire a lawyer to accept a letter from her attorney Send her the address of said attorney and to contact them in all future correspondents You wont hear from her again View Quote Exactly what I was going to say. It's a bunch of passive-aggressive nonsense. Tell her since she mentioned an attorney that you can no longer discuss this with her and it will have to go through your attorney. Give her contact information to the law offices of Dewey, Cheatum and Howe. |
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Jesus, I just bought a couple horses for a stack of cash and brought them home in a rusty stock trailer.
Guessing you deal in more money? Reads like a lot of legaleze bluffing. Re-write as a list, and include point by point responses. Couldn't hurt to see if there are any lawyers familiar with that part of law to do a consult. Could easily be money well spent, and may be cheaper than you think. |
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This is not a criminal matter of extortion based upon what you described. It is a civil contractual dispute. You do need a lawyer.
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Quoted: Essentially none of it is factual. I performed my duties as a trainer representing her in the sale as a buyer. I could subpoena 30 other trainers that would back me up on that. She has decided that the horse is "too good for her" and that she won't be able to do it justice. Yeah, this has pretty much destroyed any remaining trust I have in clients. I truly did nothing but try this woman to the best of my abilities to help her achieve her goals. This has crushed my wife and me. View Quote |
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The good advice here is to get an attorney and let them deal with it.
But yeah, horse chicks, crazy. Dated one and in bed it was the best of times, otherwise, the worst of times. She was crazy all the way around. |
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Was this sent to you as an email or a text, as a first-class, letter, or as a certified letter?
If the first three, ignore it and don't respond. Chances are she hasn't consulted with anyone. If the latter, she's getting serious but hasn't met with an attorney yet (unless she talks to herself). If you get a demand letter from a real attorney who specializes in contract disputes then it's time to start worrying. As an aside, I do have a contract attorney for my business. I wouldn't contact her over a $6k demand as her retainer is higher than that. |
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https://www.yourohiolegalhelp.com/other-ohio-lawsuits-attorney-lawyerequine-law/
No idea if it's legit, but I know I see adds for lawyers for anything from free initial consults to a few hundred in a variety of fields. And most lawyers I've talked to that aren't brand new pick up on legal nuance way quicker than I can. I bet they would read that letter and have a solid response in a couple of minutes, maybe with a question or two for you. Seriously, talk to a lawyer. There may be one closer to you, that was just a first result from googling "equine lawyer ohio" |
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No lawyer worth his salt will tell a client to fire off a nasty gram. They don’t get paid for that.
Step 1: ignore her. Don’t reply. Say nothing to her or anyone else about it. Nobody. Step 2: preserve your documentation. Screenshot the texts and print them off. Step 3: live life. |
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Horses and anything associated with them draw massive amounts of drama and horseshit. ( Pun intended ) Get as far away from stupid ass horses and associated drama as you can. Your life will be far better off for it.
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Quoted: After I went back and read what she said a few more times trying to figure out what she was saying It sounds like she boarded a horse with you and paid you a commission when buying another horse, maybe traded some labor in exchange for some of your fees. Now she doesn't want the horse she bought and going to sell it and wants you pay her back all her money plus whatever she loses in the sale. Yea she sounds like a freaking nut! I hope it all works out for you. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Essentially none of it is factual. I performed my duties as a trainer representing her in the sale as a buyer. I could subpoena 30 other trainers that would back me up on that. She has decided that the horse is "too good for her" and that she won't be able to do it justice. Yeah, this has pretty much destroyed any remaining trust I have in clients. I truly did nothing but try this woman to the best of my abilities to help her achieve her goals. This has crushed my wife and me. That's it in a nutshell. She wants us to reimburse her for the commission she paid to me representing her as the buyer in a sale. |
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Quoted: No lawyer worth his salt will tell a client to fire off a nasty gram. They don’t get paid for that. Step 1: ignore her. Don’t reply. Say nothing to her or anyone else about it. Nobody. Step 2: preserve your documentation. Screenshot the texts and print them off. Step 3: live life. View Quote Now that you say that, I remember a few telling me it's like a warning shot. Don't threaten the lawsuit, if you are going to sue, just sue. Otherwise you just look like a blustering fool. |
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Quoted: Was this sent to you as an email or a text, as a first-class, letter, or as a certified letter? If the first three, ignore it and don't respond. Chances are she hasn't consulted with anyone. If the latter, she's getting serious but hasn't met with an attorney yet (unless she talks to herself). If you get a demand letter from a real attorney who specializes in contract disputes then it's time to start worrying. As an aside, I do have a contract attorney for my business. I wouldn't contact her over a $6k demand as her retainer is higher than that. View Quote She sent it via text this morning. Quoted: After consulting a specialist in equine law, which I can only imagine is somehow related to bird law. https://media1.tenor.com/images/1493636f391a486ca2e960b4de698d1d/tenor.gif?itemid=8142507 View Quote Quoted: Horses and anything associated with them draw massive amounts of drama and horseshit. ( Pun intended ) Get as far away from stupid ass horses and associated drama as you can. Your life will be far better off for it. View Quote I wish I could. I've been a professional in this industry for almost 20 years. I don't know anything else. I eat, sleep, and breath horses. This shitstorm may have broken me though. I did nothing but try to help this woman realize her goals. All I wanted was for her to succeed. And I get this shit. |
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Put a horse head in her bed while she's sleeping.
Contract dispute 101. |
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Quoted: Now that you say that, I remember a few telling me it's like a warning shot. Don't threaten the lawsuit, if you are going to sue, just sue. Otherwise you just look like a blustering fool. View Quote I agree with this - She's bluffing. I've sued a couple of lawyers and won, many think that the mere fact they are lawyers is a huge intimidation factor. Don't be afraid of her, make her pull the trigger, I highly doubt she will sue, and if she does it would be in small claims court. Just my opinion |
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Quoted: She sent it via text this morning. View Quote Don't even respond. She's a former client throwing around shit and dropping lawyer bombs. Give her nothing. The only action I would take is to make sure you have backups of all communications between you and her, and a copy of your commission/buyer's agreement with her stashed somewhere safe both hard and soft copies, maybe offsite or in a Google drop box. |
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