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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:22:41 PM EDT
[#1]
Wolfschanze in East Prussia, Poland now. Hitler’s main headquarters of super bunkers blown up by the SS late 1944. Ruins galore and history galore. There are buildings all over Berlin with shell, bullet and fragment damage.
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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:24:47 PM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:26:27 PM EDT
[#3]
Flak towers…
ETA…I want to build my own flak tower… 
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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:26:34 PM EDT
[#4]
Berlin flak towers.....They were so tough the ones that they tried to destroy was more work than it was worth.
About all they could wit them was cover them with dirt.  |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:26:41 PM EDT
[#5]
I've been to Normandy. I remember thinking the craters left in the earth were so much bigger than I imagined they'd be. All covered in grass now. It was very cool.
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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:28:38 PM EDT
[#6]
When we went to the WW1 Belleau wood cemetery, a local tour guide said that, "during WW2 a french tank was driving past the memorial when a German anti tank crew fired at it and missed, blowing a hole in the wall".
Pretty sobering experience walking that battlefield. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:29:32 PM EDT
[#7]
A lot of cool WW2 stuff. But it's incredible how much the land is still scarred from WW1.
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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:31:34 PM EDT
[#8]
Lots of stuff to still see. Plenty of WWI stuff as well.
On one of my trips we passed some WWI, WWII, and old Roman fortifications in France on the same day. It's all on how much time and money you have to see it all. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:32:59 PM EDT
[#9]
In several large German cities, ruins have been deliberately left (or incorporated into modern architecture) as memorials.
The ones that spring to my mind are two churches in Berlin and Hamburg. Most of those particular churches were destroyed by Allied bombing, but the spires/towers remain. I also remember a big Flak tower in Hamburg. My recollection is that it was still standing because it was so solidly built that it would be a nightmare to demolish. I think it's some sort of art center or collective these days.
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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:36:43 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A lot of cool WW2 stuff. But it's incredible how much the land is still scarred from WW1. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/33962/original_jpg-2159530.JPG Amazing! Is that Belleau Wood, or Verdun? |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:39:57 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In several large German cities, ruins have been deliberately left (or incorporated into modern architecture) as memorials. The ones that spring to my mind are the churches in Berlin and Hamburg. Most of the churches were destroyed by Allied bombing, but the spires/towers remain. I also remember a big Flak tower in Hamburg. My recollection is that it was still standing because it was so solidly built that it would be a nightmare to demolish. I think it's some sort of art center or collective these days.The hill/hills in one of the Berlin parks are actually Flak towers covered with rubble and dirt, then planted over. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:41:06 PM EDT
[#12]
The wife and I want to do the trip as well, so we're watching this thread closely.
I can't wait to see Europe. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:43:38 PM EDT
[#13]
Kelsteinhaus in Berchtesgaden was pretty cool. Beautiful town and surrounding mountains as well.
ETA: If you're seeing Dachau, you'll be nearby it. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:44:17 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here...allow me to present you with this rabbit hole: http://www.thirdreichruins.com/index.htm Thanks to you I'll now have to spend the next two hours of my time on that website.
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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:44:26 PM EDT
[#15]
Google Earth point Du Hoc. The hate they threw at that cliff to knock out those guns before sending in the Rangers is impressive
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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:46:33 PM EDT
[#16]
When I was in Berlin you could tell where bombs had hit .rows of old buildings with new ones right in the middle or all kinds of new buildings with one old one
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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:46:33 PM EDT
[#17]
I last went to Germany in 2004.
Dresden was mostly still decaying GDR concrete buildings. I imagine many have been replaced now, but the paucity of pre-1945 buildings tells you everything you need to know about RAF Bomber Command's effectiveness. Berlin was interesting also for its Cold War relics. At that time, most of the wall was still standing and I was able to just pick pieces off as a souvenir (my wife was bemused by that gift). Colditz Castle is now a museum, complete with mock-up of the escape glider in the attic. Most interesting were the mundane things. At that time, driving from West to East, the autobahns declined rapidly. The former-FRG sections were the best in the World, no speed limits. As soon as you crossed into the former-GDR, the autobahns were just crumbling 2-lane concrete disasters with a strict speed limit for safety. Probably all replaced now, but it stuck in my mind at the time. Your tour sounds interesting, but the driving may be ambitious. While the distances don't seem much by US standards, the traffic around major cities can be horrendous, especially if you go during the summer holidays there. On the other hand, some places can be seen quite efficiently - I did all the Normandy landing sites and quite a few museums in one day (no wife or family in tow). Then again, I did Rome in a day also, so maybe I'm just a high-energy person 
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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:48:34 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Amazing! Is that Belleau Wood, or Verdun? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A lot of cool WW2 stuff. But it's incredible how much the land is still scarred from WW1. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/33962/original_jpg-2159530.JPG Amazing! Is that Belleau Wood, or Verdun? The hellscape of Verdun. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:48:55 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The hill/hills in one of the Berlin parks are actually Flak towers covered with rubble and dirt, then planted over. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: In several large German cities, ruins have been deliberately left (or incorporated into modern architecture) as memorials. The ones that spring to my mind are the churches in Berlin and Hamburg. Most of the churches were destroyed by Allied bombing, but the spires/towers remain. I also remember a big Flak tower in Hamburg. My recollection is that it was still standing because it was so solidly built that it would be a nightmare to demolish. I think it's some sort of art center or collective these days.The hill/hills in one of the Berlin parks are actually Flak towers covered with rubble and dirt, then planted over. Warsaw has a chunk of the ghetto wall left. The Saints Cyril and Methodius Cathedral in Prague has a bullet scarred window to its crypt from the manhunt following Operation Anthropoid. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:48:55 PM EDT
[#20]
I went on a self guided tour back in 03 and there were lots to see, but sometime you could look right at it and not know. There is a Michelin battle field map-get it.
Im really good at finding bunkers and missile production bunkers etc, the germans painted them up and many in the hurtgen forest still have it. All those funny holes around the corners of buildings and windows in many towns-are bullet holes. WW1 battle fields are really interesting too and turn up a massive amount of stuff every day. Will try to add more info after work. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:52:14 PM EDT
[#21]
Been to Dachau, don't miss that. Munich still has some bombed out stuff and rebuilt with old original façades and most buildings have pictures of what they looked like after the war. Spent most of my time in the south, Stuttgart, Baden Baden, Oberammergau, the walled cities on the Romantic road. Beautiful country.
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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:52:29 PM EDT
[#22]
 First World War - Lochnagar Crater |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:55:19 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I last went to Germany in 2004. Dresden was mostly still decaying GDR concrete buildings. I imagine many have been replaced now, but the paucity of pre-1945 buildings tells you everything you need to know about RAF Bomber Command's effectiveness. Berlin was interesting also for its Cold War relics. At that time, most of the wall was still standing and I was able to just pick pieces off as a souvenir (my wife was bemused by that gift). Colditz Castle is now a museum, complete with mock-up of the escape glider in the attic. Most interesting were the mundane things. At that time, driving from West to East, the autobahns declined rapidly. The former-FRG sections were the best in the World, no speed limits. As soon as you crossed into the former-GDR, the autobahns were just crumbling 2-lane concrete disasters with a strict speed limit for safety. Probably all replaced now, but it stuck in my mind at the time. Your tour sounds interesting, but the driving may be ambitious. While the distances don't seem much by US standards, the traffic around major cities can be horrendous, especially if you go during the summer holidays there. On the other hand, some places can be seen quite efficiently - I did all the Normandy landing sites and quite a few museums in one day (no wife or family in tow). Then again, I did Rome in a day also, so maybe I'm just a high-energy person Fascinating. Apparently the drab concrete buildings of the GDR can still be seen in some eastern cities. However, google street view for Dresden shows quite the renaissance of architecture Different rabbit hole, but I like to watch urban exploration YT videos. Plenty of cold war bunkers to explore in Germany and Poland. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:55:51 PM EDT
[#24]
I would absolutely love to travel to Europe and see the old battlefields that I have read so much about. I am too chicken to leave the basement though.
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Posted: 11/8/2021 1:58:33 PM EDT
[#25]
The first ruin that caught my eye was the synagogue in Kitzingen am Main. Just a rock shell with a plaque that described what happened to it on Kristallnacht.
Finding old ordnance, equipment, etc., out in the field was always cool. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 2:05:56 PM EDT
[#26]
It's subtle, but if you walk around Paris you can see lots of bullet impact craters in the walls.
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Posted: 11/8/2021 2:11:06 PM EDT
[#27]
Oradour-sur-Glane is a must-see. Nothing like it anywhere else as far as I know. And the 'new' town there is a good French small-town, non-touristy experience as well.
The gun emplacements at Longues-sur-Mer are intact and a great experience. Base yourself in Bayeaux (great cathedral there too, as well as the Bayeaux tapestry museum) and there are tons of stuff nearby. Mauthausen concentration camp in Austria is largely intact and definitely worth a visit. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 2:23:21 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's subtle, but if you walk around Paris you can see lots of bullet impact craters in the walls. Yep. Check out the city hall (Hotel de Ville). Lots of bullet holes from the gun battles of August 1944. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 2:23:42 PM EDT
[#29]
Atlantic Wall you say?
I live a few miles from part of it. When we lived in Bremen there were a couple flak towers around the huge city park. They still find bombs everywhere too. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 2:27:53 PM EDT
[#30]
Are you using a tour or guide or planning the trip yourself op?
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Posted: 11/8/2021 2:34:05 PM EDT
[#31]
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Posted: 11/8/2021 2:36:33 PM EDT
[#32]
The Cologne Cathedral is pretty cool. They've fixed it up mostly, but you can still admire the bomb shrapnel spray patterns on the stone inside. Also, the Cologne Gestapo HQ is pretty freaky with the basement lockup cells.
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Posted: 11/8/2021 2:37:38 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you using a tour or guide or planning the trip yourself op? So far, self-planning. I'd love to come next summer, but summer or fall 2023 much more likely. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 2:38:52 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here...allow me to present you with this rabbit hole: http://www.thirdreichruins.com/index.htm Bookmarked for later. Thanks! |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 2:42:38 PM EDT
[#35]
Dresden would be a place worth visiting. The former DDR (born there) was always behind the West and it still shows to the day in the infrastructure. It has come a long long way from 1989 but you do not just undo 50 years of communism overnight.
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Posted: 11/8/2021 2:59:20 PM EDT
[#36]
Double tap
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Posted: 11/8/2021 3:00:51 PM EDT
[#37]
Dachau is very moving - Give yourself at least 4 hours there, 6-8 would be better.
The Eagle's nest (Kehlsteinhaus) as already mentioed is also very interesting - I ate lunch there and walked around the grounds outside. If you are Nuremburg, there is the former Nazi party rally grounds right next to a large convention center that is open and largely intact In Barcelona I stumbled across some abandoned gun turrets which were pretty interesting. I think they were in the process of making them some sort of exhibit, but when I was there around 5 years ago it was wide open for anyone to walk around. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 3:17:51 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Amazing! Is that Belleau Wood, or Verdun? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: A lot of cool WW2 stuff. But it's incredible how much the land is still scarred from WW1. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/33962/original_jpg-2159530.JPG Amazing! Is that Belleau Wood, or Verdun?
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Posted: 11/8/2021 3:20:19 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted: I'm a huge WW2 geek, and have planned on going to Europe. Had planned on going next summer, but we will see. Probably more like Summer 2023 at this point. I've seen plenty of pictures of bombed out churches in Germany that still stand, as a reminder of the war, I'm probably thinking of Kaiser Wilhelm in Berlin. Also, read something on Reddit that there are still ruins in eastern Germany that have not been renovated or destroyed. I guess the East German government had more pressing issues in the post war, like spying on it's citizens. My list of things to see are pretty typical: Normandy, Atlantic wall, Dachau, Oradour-sur-Glane in France and many others. Still, I wonder if one can see unpreserved ruins in Europe. I would imagine they would be more prevalent in eastern Europe. Any suggestions, experiences? Berlin  Brest  Volgograd  Victory Park, Moscow  Rzhev  |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 3:37:42 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In several large German cities, ruins have been deliberately left (or incorporated into modern architecture) as memorials. The ones that spring to my mind are two churches in Berlin and Hamburg. Most of those particular churches were destroyed by Allied bombing, but the spires/towers remain. I also remember a big Flak tower in Hamburg. My recollection is that it was still standing because it was so solidly built that it would be a nightmare to demolish. I think it's some sort of art center or collective these days.Are you talking about the mostly melted church in downtown Berlin? I think it was only a few minutes from the gates. When I lived in Stuttgart, they had a man made mountain located outside of town with a huge cross on top. It was all the war debris carted outside the city and they made a mountain out of it, mostly from aerial bombing. Out back my house in the woods they still had an old german concrete bunker we use to sit on and drink beer. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 4:25:37 PM EDT
[#41]
Don't go to that third reich in ruins site. I just returned...barely.
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Posted: 11/8/2021 5:54:33 PM EDT
[#42]
I did Normandy on a three day weekend, but could have easily spent a week. I imagine "Hell's Highway" in Holland could also take close to a week.
I'd also like to see the battlefield at Agincourt. |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 6:06:23 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dachau is very moving - Give yourself at least 4 hours there, 6-8 would be better. The Eagle's nest (Kehlsteinhaus) as already mentioed is also very interesting - I ate lunch there and walked around the grounds outside. If you are Nuremburg, there is the former Nazi party rally grounds right next to a large convention center that is open and largely intact In Barcelona I stumbled across some abandoned gun turrets which were pretty interesting. I think they were in the process of making them some sort of exhibit, but when I was there around 5 years ago it was wide open for anyone to walk around. A photo I took when I visited Dachau in 1975.  Attached File |
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Posted: 11/8/2021 6:15:06 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dachau is very moving - Give yourself at least 4 hours there, 6-8 would be better. The Eagle's nest (Kehlsteinhaus) as already mentioed is also very interesting - I ate lunch there and walked around the grounds outside. If you are Nuremburg, there is the former Nazi party rally grounds right next to a large convention center that is open and largely intact In Barcelona I stumbled across some abandoned gun turrets which were pretty interesting. I think they were in the process of making them some sort of exhibit, but when I was there around 5 years ago it was wide open for anyone to walk around. I’ve been to the parade grounds in Nuremburg....... if you look carefully you can still see the eagle and swastika on the concrete where they etched it off |
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Posted: 11/9/2021 9:14:34 AM EDT
[#45]
Fascinating post WW2 pics (1945-48?) from Atlantic Magazine.
https://www.theatlantic.com/photo/2011/10/world-war-ii-after-the-war/100180/ ETA: As mentioned, I'm a huge WW2 buff/nerd, could keep this discussion going for a long time. Really appreciate everyone's input, and especially those whom were stationed in Europe during the Cold War. I could have been stationed near Landstuhl (Kaiserslautern?) had I reenlisted. ETS'ed and got married instead lol. Should have dragged my wife to be to Germany instead. |
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Posted: 11/9/2021 9:21:27 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryBeat me to it. I was going to mention that one. Those World War 1 mines are incredible. |
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Posted: 11/9/2021 9:34:16 AM EDT
[#47]
You sounds like a nerd/buff of late stages of WW2 in western Europe.
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Posted: 11/9/2021 9:41:57 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You sounds like a nerd/buff of late stages of WW2 in western Europe. yep, fascinated by the 1944/45 invasion and push into Germany. Also, intrigued by the Cold war period. |
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Posted: 11/9/2021 9:53:33 AM EDT
[#49]
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Posted: 11/9/2021 10:09:32 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryVerdun. The amount of UXO there is probably staggering. Place is basically uninhabitable. Hell, probably more so than Chernobyl or Pripyat. |
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