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Posted: 1/16/2021 2:06:18 AM EDT
[#1]
Probably waiting to see if the gov will give them the axe. Happy times ahead
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Posted: 1/16/2021 2:06:34 AM EDT
[#2]
The entire industry is standing by for higher regulation, restriction and operating liability. Nobody is increasing anything.
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Posted: 1/16/2021 2:07:11 AM EDT
[#3]
No fucking way.
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Posted: 1/16/2021 2:10:33 AM EDT
[#4]
I see them manufacturing as much ammo as possible given their current equipment. 24/7 production.
Will they add machines and facilities to increase production even further? Highly unlikely as it would likely be a very poor investment long term. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 2:14:45 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I see them manufacturing as much ammo as possible given their current equipment. 24/7 production. Will they add machines and facilities to increase production even further? Highly unlikely as it would likely be a very poor investment long term. ^^^This! Not a chance in hell with the uncertainty of their future. They will produce maximum capacity with what they currently have. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 2:18:54 AM EDT
[#6]
Damn, was hoping someone would say “yes.”
Going to be a bunch of grown men purchasing airsoft guns then I guess. What about increasing importation from overseas? |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 2:19:55 AM EDT
[#7]
Not if they are smart
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Posted: 1/16/2021 2:24:33 AM EDT
[#8]
Add debt for a problem that comes up every 4 years so that in time between it's idled and they sell at minimal margins? Sure.....
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Posted: 1/16/2021 2:29:05 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Add debt for a problem that comes up every 4 years so that in time between it's idled and they sell at minimal margins? Sure..... So you think demand will return to 2019 levels? I know some of this demand is a bubble, but not all of it. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 2:38:39 AM EDT
[#10]
Maybe a little but I wouldn’t expect too much, the demand in their industry moves way too much for millions $ in machinery and people
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Posted: 1/16/2021 2:38:54 AM EDT
[#11]
There are many levers they can pull to increase throughput and add capacity, but many of those levers require significant investment into new infrastructure and capital equipment.
Now i'm sure that if you're a domestic producer you have probably ramped up your hiring/training practices, purchased all the raw material you can possibly get your hands on, and likewise done your best to increase safety stock and employee segmentation to protect against CoV-19 related supply chain impacts. That being said, I bet many of these same manufacturers understand this is a boom/bust industry. Setting up a new manufacturing line isn't cheap and my guess is it isn't done quickly (although purchasing a new facility may have a special allure during these times of dirt cheap comm real estate) They may be afraid to make capital heavy investments if they may not materialize and increase throughput until we're half way through a very uncertain Biden Administration. I know nothing about the ammunition industry, but that would be my take in terms of what their thoughts are. Business as usual with all facilities running at max capacity |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 2:39:53 AM EDT
[#12]
Capacity as in extra shifts maybe. Not extra equipment and space I wouldn't think.
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Posted: 1/16/2021 2:53:03 AM EDT
[#13]
Just got 2k of wolf x39. Mfg date on box is 10/20 that’s not too bad imo. From factory to my door in 2-3 months.
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Posted: 1/16/2021 2:53:45 AM EDT
[#14]
I wouldn’t.
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Posted: 1/16/2021 2:56:32 AM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 1/16/2021 2:59:16 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What about increasing importation from overseas?  Attached FileOne of the easiest things to ban. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 3:01:47 AM EDT
[#17]
Probably not. Investing in quality employees and materials would be my guess.
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Posted: 1/16/2021 3:05:05 AM EDT
[#18]
Is it just domestic producers that are slammed or overseas too?
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Posted: 1/16/2021 3:08:07 AM EDT
[#19]
Why add capacity when sales will be mostly banned soon.
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Posted: 1/16/2021 3:17:04 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No fucking way. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 3:22:45 AM EDT
[#21]
... "wanna buy a dime bag?"
 |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 3:24:30 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is it just domestic producers that are slammed or overseas too? We buy the world's supply of ammo too |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 3:25:39 AM EDT
[#23]
Quoted: So you think demand will return to 2019 levels? I know some of this demand is a bubble, but not all of it. How do you know that? What makes you think it won't calm down again? |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 3:28:16 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We buy the world's supply of ammo too Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is it just domestic producers that are slammed or overseas too? We buy the world's supply of ammo too Afraid of that. So we are the neck beards of the world? |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 3:30:54 AM EDT
[#25]
It's not even showing up on shelves anywhere anymore.
It sure seems like they stopped production for the public, even if that's not the case. HR 127 seems to mandate registration of all ammo. This bill is not good. In the past i would say it would have no chance of passing. But in the current circumstance..who knows. https://www.unclesamsmisguidedchildren.com/hr-127-firearm-ammunition-licensing-registration-and-banning-of-certain-ammunition/ |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 3:32:47 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The entire industry is standing by for higher regulation, restriction and operating liability. Nobody is increasing anything. This. I wouldn't if I were them. Also I keep hearing raw materials are a big part of the problem. More production line capacity doesn't solve that. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 3:33:32 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Afraid of that. So we are the neck beards of the world? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is it just domestic producers that are slammed or overseas too? We buy the world's supply of ammo too Afraid of that. So we are the neck beards of the world? We're the only ones with shitloads of guns and ammo everywhere |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 3:34:50 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I see them manufacturing as much ammo as possible given their current equipment. 24/7 production. Will they add machines and facilities to increase production even further? Highly unlikely as it would likely be a very poor investment long term. This. Let alone the fact that the machines are essentially custom built and take around a year to be made and another several months in shipping, calibration, and testing. That's not even touching the massive price tag. That said, there are several outfits that have presses about to come online because they were ordered a few years ago and delivered during the coof shutdowns. Federal/CCI and Hornady if memory serves right. The chokepoint is primer production though. Unless regs have changed in the last few years, the production rate was severely cut after a factory kaboomed in Europe several years back. Something like 1/10 of what the machines are designed for. Sure they can still knock out thousands of primers a minute, but it's still significantly less than what they could do at capacity. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 4:37:58 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: Are the ammo manufacturers going to add manufacturing capacity or are they holding off tooling up for that based on a belief that this is a bubble? I’m no longer convinced that all the demand is a bubble. I think we’re looking at a new normal spawned by the addition of a lot of new gun owners. What do you guys think? Any relief in sight or $0.70 a round of 9mm forever? I don’t think so... |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 4:50:57 AM EDT
[#30]
Adding manpower to try and keep up with demand, yes. Once the demand has dropped, the ammo manufacturers can either let the extra workers go or reorganize them.
Adding more warehouses and/or equipment to keep up with the temporary demand, highly unlikely and just a bad business decision. Unfortunately we just need to wait until this is over. Once that's done, start buying a little at a time so you have some stock for the next surge in demand. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 7:01:37 AM EDT
[#31]
Doubt it they are raking in the cash right now.
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Posted: 1/16/2021 7:04:58 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What about increasing importation from overseas? Under Biden? 
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Posted: 1/16/2021 7:09:39 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Damn, was hoping someone would say “yes.” Going to be a bunch of grown men purchasing airsoft guns then I guess. What about increasing importation from overseas? They will ban ammo importation with an executive order. Expect it by March. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 7:17:17 AM EDT
[#34]
No, they will be producing less under a Biden administration.
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Posted: 1/16/2021 7:21:47 AM EDT
[#35]
When is the Remington line in Arkansas supposed to be back online? That will help some and probably the closest thing to "adding capacity" that we're going to get in the near term.
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Posted: 1/16/2021 7:22:45 AM EDT
[#36]
Ammo mfg’rs are just holding their breath. Definitely not the environment one wants to start investing in capital equipment.
Their only hope is to land an exclusive govt contract. If that contract involved ceasing all civilian ammo sales there’s not a single mfg’r that wouldn’t give a salute and spout a hearty “Yes, Sir!!” |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 7:26:05 AM EDT
[#37]
I would think this has increased to a point where global manufacturing has hired more and increased capacity - they aren't worried about US regulating a manufacturer - just import restrictions which are also coming.
I'd think China (who can't import ammo legally) and Russia (who can and does) would be glad to undermine the US by throwing huge piles of ammo in an effort to create strife and money. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 7:48:01 AM EDT
[#38]
Quoted: Are the ammo manufacturers going to add manufacturing capacity or are they holding off tooling up for that based on a belief that this is a bubble? I’m no longer convinced that all the demand is a bubble. I think we’re looking at a new normal spawned by the addition of a lot of new gun owners. What do you guys think? Any relief in sight or $0.70 a round of 9mm forever? No. Expanding quickly for a short bubble of demand during a Dim administration that is defined by economic uncertainty is a certain way to piss away money. This is the Third Cycle in modern history. Learn from it, and make corrections in your habits when supply becomes normal. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 7:56:04 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The entire industry is standing by for higher regulation, restriction and operating liability. Nobody is increasing anything. Exactly. Business thrives on certainty as to what the rules and regulations and laws will be. (That's why business loves gridlock in Washington. Nothing changes). We don't have much of that right now. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 8:04:46 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know nothing about the ammunition industry. Which should have been the entirety of your response. 
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Posted: 1/16/2021 8:10:31 AM EDT
[#41]
Did they get rem/umc spun back up yet?
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Posted: 1/16/2021 8:21:25 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Add debt for a problem that comes up every 4 years so that in time between it's idled and they sell at minimal margins? Sure..... I guess you haven't been paying attention. This is now permanent problem. The left successfully stole an election there's now nothing stopping them from remaining in power indefinitely. We're now ruled by a totalitarian regime. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 8:23:11 AM EDT
[#43]
I have no information myself but if I were in the business, I would be waiting. Kind of foolish to invest in equipment, materials and staff if the government is going to impose such draconian new laws that will cut demand for my product. Even if such laws were eventually found unconstitutional, it would take years for the cases to work their way through the courts and that is money that could be invested elsewhere.
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Posted: 1/16/2021 8:23:22 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The entire industry is standing by for higher regulation, restriction and operating liability. Nobody is increasing anything. +1 This is a business. They don’t care if you personally don’t have ammo. They are going to do what’s in their best financial interest. If the environment allows them to increase capacity, they will do so. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 8:24:14 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Damn, was hoping someone would say “yes.” Going to be a bunch of grown men purchasing airsoft guns then I guess. What about increasing importation from overseas? “Watch this one neat trick.” ~ Biden |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 8:25:52 AM EDT
[#46]
Most have already said they won't invest in more infrastructure because they have seen these bubbles before and that finding and training more employees that can be trusted is the hardest part and takes up to one year of experience.
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Posted: 1/16/2021 8:27:22 AM EDT
[#47]
Nope they are investing in beanie babies
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Posted: 1/16/2021 8:27:30 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Afraid of that. So we are the neck beards of the world? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Is it just domestic producers that are slammed or overseas too? We buy the world's supply of ammo too Afraid of that. So we are the neck beards of the world? @veritas_rasa The U.S. appetite for guns/mags/ammo is insatiable. Think of all the surplus that we’ve soaked up from around the world as well as new production. It’s quite a sight to see! |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 8:30:04 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you think demand will return to 2019 levels? I know some of this demand is a bubble, but not all of it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Add debt for a problem that comes up every 4 years so that in time between it's idled and they sell at minimal margins? Sure..... So you think demand will return to 2019 levels? I know some of this demand is a bubble, but not all of it. No it has to be a slightly higher demand than 2019. 39 million NICS checks last year. Those newbs need to stockpile a little ammo and shoot some. That's why this panic is so long. |
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Posted: 1/16/2021 8:46:49 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The entire industry is standing by for higher regulation, restriction and operating liability. Nobody is increasing anything. Biden / BloJo will cripple every business but Green. |
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