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Posted: 4/2/2020 7:33:42 AM EDT
[#1]
The free market is a good thing.
It's surprising that more people don't know it. |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 7:35:44 AM EDT
[#2]
Even CTD-level gouging. I won't buy from them, but if somebody REALLY wanted to pay $900 for a case of M193, it was available
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Posted: 4/2/2020 7:37:14 AM EDT
[#3]
If people don't understand supply and demand, just look at oil right now. Ya know that shit that they
said we would run out of. Yesterday Trump said gas is .99 in some places, fuck me running. If that doesn't splain it, I don't know what will. |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 7:38:40 AM EDT
[#4]
Seems to me the prudent thing to do would be to limit quantities instead of raising the price. I guess it's easier to just jam the price way up and make bank off of paranoia. Fuck 'em
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Posted: 4/2/2020 7:39:45 AM EDT
[#5]
People hoarding and turning around to price gouge isn't necessarily bad either.
I'd rather an unemployed person make money selling masks than a govt handout. |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 7:40:42 AM EDT
[#6]
People would rather see empty shelves with standard price tags under them than see goods available.
People are stupid. |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 7:40:57 AM EDT
[#7]
< lol >
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Posted: 4/2/2020 7:45:27 AM EDT
[#8]
I guess that's one way to spin it. I understand it but don't try to tell me you're some moral crusader
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Posted: 4/2/2020 7:45:34 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seems to me the prudent thing to do would be to limit quantities instead of raising the price. I guess it's easier to just jam the price way up and make bank off of paranoia. Fuck 'em Price is information. If quantities are limited but price fixed, current and potential suppliers/producers see nothing that would convey to them a need to take on risk in order to increase/start supplying/producing. If the price goes up and quantities are unlimited, then the risk to start or increase supply/production is offset by the potential for added reward. This continues until demand is satisfied, either at some new higher level, or by returning to the old baseline, resulting in market equilibrium. Your solution would still result in a shortage, just a more "fair" shortage for everyone. |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 7:54:56 AM EDT
[#10]
Gouging is the price paid for being unprepared. Some will learn. Most will not.
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Posted: 4/2/2020 7:58:08 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gouging is the price paid for being unprepared. Some will learn. Most will not. I'm glad I bought every sealed battle pack Walmart had on clearance that wasn't already neckbeard. It's not a huge pallet of ammo but if I need to start dipping into my sealed stock then shit has really hit the fan. |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 8:00:50 AM EDT
[#12]
Entirely disagree because it depends on the circumstances.
Price gouging on ammo during a panic? Sure...go for it. You guys don't want to acknowledge this but thats a luxury item and the fact is no one is going to die or get sick because they didn't get 5 cases of M193. Price gouging on healthcare items needed during a pandemic? Frankly you deserve whatever comes your way...I don't know how anyone who does that shit can look at themselves in the mirror. |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 8:01:12 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess that's one way to spin it. I understand it but don't try to tell me you're some moral crusader Someone will make money selling those goods to the most desperate people. Why not me? |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 8:02:00 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Entirely disagree because it depends on the circumstances. Price gouging on ammo during a panic? Sure...go for it. You guys don't want to acknowledge this but thats a luxury item and the fact is no one is going to die or get sick because they didn't get 5 cases of M193. Price gouging on healthcare items needed during a pandemic? Frankly you deserve whatever comes your way...I don't know how anyone who does that shit can look at themselves in the mirror. Which healthcare items? |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 8:03:20 AM EDT
[#15]
The problem is the resellers that hoarded the supplies in the first place thus creating the shortage.
When people do that with things that people consider essential then there’s some moral dilemmas that come about. Then the slippery slope begins...if someone is withhold lifesaving medicine from someone out of greed, is it then ok to kill/rob that person out of survival? |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 8:06:31 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which healthcare items? masks, hand sanitizer, etc... Sorry...but buying that crap in bulk and selling it a retarded markup like some have been doing is douchebaggery when we are facing a crisis like this... |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 8:14:13 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People would rather see empty shelves with standard price tags under them than see goods available. People are stupid. It's that simple. |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 8:14:51 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess that's one way to spin it. I understand it but don't try to tell me you're some moral crusader That is not spin. It's fact and economic law. |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 8:17:41 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Someone will make money selling those goods to the most desperate people. Why not me? |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 8:19:46 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The problem is the resellers that hoarded the supplies in the first place thus creating the shortage. When people do that with things that people consider essential then there’s some moral dilemmas that come about. Then the slippery slope begins...if someone is withhold lifesaving medicine from someone out of greed, is it then ok to kill/rob that person out of survival? Ah, and away we go. "He was charging $3 a gallon for gas after a hurricane! He should be drug out and shot!" What price should this non-hypothetical guy be selling at? What if he decides not to sell at government enforced pricing? Should he also be forced to open and do that? And how long does the gasoline last at regular pricing in a crisis? Will the guy order another tanker truck? And on and on. But feeeeeels! |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 8:26:51 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Entirely disagree because it depends on the circumstances. Price gouging on ammo during a panic? Sure...go for it. You guys don't want to acknowledge this but thats a luxury item and the fact is no one is going to die or get sick because they didn't get 5 cases of M193. Price gouging on healthcare items needed during a pandemic? Frankly you deserve whatever comes your way...I don't know how anyone who does that shit can look at themselves in the mirror. |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 8:29:18 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That is not spin. It's fact and economic law. |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 8:43:29 AM EDT
[#23]
What you meant to say is why the law of supply and demand is a good thing...
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Posted: 4/2/2020 8:45:01 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Everything can be spun. Like I said I understand it and don't necessarily disagree with it. Just don't expect me to consider the guy hoarding baby formula to extort desperate families in order to make a profit during a crisis to be a saint He’s risking his capital, he reaps the reward of said risk. Don’t like his price, buy elsewhere or don’t buy it. |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 8:47:38 AM EDT
[#25]
I'm ok with retailers raising their prices to meet demand but the neckbeards that buy up everything at retailers to flip it can go DIAF.
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Posted: 4/2/2020 8:48:29 AM EDT
[#26]
Price gouging is a fabricated bullshit term.
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Posted: 4/2/2020 8:53:59 AM EDT
[#27]
Non-essential items and supplies... I don’t think IGAF how much price gouging goes on.
Essentials (food, water, gas) or certain items uniquely important to the situation (hand sanitizer, PPE) ought to be rationed and/or apportioned appropriately. |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 8:55:51 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Non-essential items and supplies... I don’t think IGAF how much price gouging goes on. Essentials (food, water, gas) or certain items uniquely important to the situation (hand sanitizer, PPE) ought to be rationed and/or apportioned appropriately. Who would you suggest is in charge of this rationing and apportionment? |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 8:59:03 AM EDT
[#29]
Demand responsive pricing is not price gouging.
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Posted: 4/2/2020 9:04:07 AM EDT
[#30]
I dont want to see it with some healthcare or medicine. That malaria drug is like $5 but if it could be gouged it would be $5k or above a treatment if free market decides that.
Stuff like gas, TP, ammo, hand sanitizer, masks, I dont care. If hospitals decided it was a great idea to have 2 days worth of PPE on hand then so be it. |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 9:05:22 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even CTD-level gouging. I won't buy from them, but if somebody REALLY wanted to pay $900 for a case of M193, it was available However, a year into the panic after Sandy Hook I had a 3 gun match and training session to attend back to back. I needed ammo and my LGS, Academy, Wal Mart, and Cabelas were all bare. However, CTD had exactly what I needed with no quantity restrictions. Yeah I paid $1 per round for 5.56 but I was able to train and compete. I also learned a valuable lesson. Stockpile when things are good to prepare for when things are bad. |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 9:06:47 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seems to me the prudent thing to do would be to limit quantities instead of raising the price. I guess it's easier to just jam the price way up and make bank off of paranoia. Fuck 'em Why? Most of the sellers of so-called gouged items don't have to worry about paying off the last shipment they themselves received, nearly as much as having to pay for the next shipment they'll receive. ETA: high prices in a disaster area also create an incentive for someone in the unaffected area to buy up a bunch of whatever where it's not scarce and bring it to where it is. Would you do that without a shot at making a profit? They also incentivize people who have large stashes of whatever to sell their bottled water rather than sit on it. And light a fire under the producers of same to crank up production even if it means suspending production of some other profitable item. And force people to think about whether they need this gallon of off-highway diesel to runa generator to watch television more than the guy who's going to run his generator to power a fridge full of insulin. Higher prices also keep the good from running out entirely. Every good and service has a market-clearing price. Fix the price below it and run out. Fix the price above the market-clearing price and goods rot in the warehouse. |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 9:13:33 AM EDT
[#33]
What's with all these threads defending price gouging? Are people attempting to quell their consciences and rationalize to themselves their own greed?
Price gouging is immoral, period. Aside from that, the argument is fallacious. If the goal is to help people, then limiting purchases is the answer--not astronomically raising prices. Raise prices too high, and now normal people can't get stuff because they simply can't afford it--not because others have hoarded it all. The loss in supply is artificial due to vastly unequal distribution. This situation is really bringing out the selfish sociopath in a lot of people. Another thing--the people doing the price gouging are really just hoarders themselves--they're hoarding everyone else's cash, which then gives them the resources to actually hoard lots of supplies. It's greed, fear, and selfishness all rolled into one. At the rate this is all going, people will have to start selling themselves into slavery just to keep food on the table. That's what will happen when the supply chain totally breaks down, the police are all gone, and organized crime starts taking claiming territory. |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 9:19:27 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What's with all these threads defending price gouging? Are people attempting to quell their consciences and rationalize to themselves their own greed? Price gouging is immoral, period. Aside from that, the argument is fallacious. If the goal is to help people, then limiting purchases is the answer--not astronomically raising prices. Raise prices too high, and now normal people can't get stuff because they simply can't afford it--not because others have hoarded it all. The loss in supply is artificial due to vastly unequal distribution. This situation is really bringing out the selfish sociopath in a lot of people. Another thing--the people doing the price gouging are really just hoarders themselves--they're hoarding everyone else's cash, which then gives them the resources to actually hoard lots of supplies. It's greed, fear, and selfishness all rolled into one. At the rate this is all going, people will have to start selling themselves into slavery just to keep food on the table. That's what will happen when the supply chain totally breaks down, the police are all gone, and organized crime starts taking claiming territory. So, you’re ok with selling your house for 1/10th of market value to someone that doesn’t have a house because that’s all they can afford? I mean, to sell your good at a price determined by the supply and demand and market derived price would be rather selfish and sociopathic of you otherwise... |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 9:20:57 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The free market is a good thing. It's surprising that more people don't know it. No such thing as a free market. |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 9:21:31 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Demand responsive pricing is not price gouging. This. The gubment seems to be now defining price gouging as “hoarding necessary health & safety products then reselling at a profit.” simply raising prices doesn’t seem to qualify. |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 9:24:27 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What's with all these threads defending price gouging? Are people attempting to quell their consciences and rationalize to themselves their own greed? Price gouging is immoral, period. Aside from that, the argument is fallacious. If the goal is to help people, then limiting purchases is the answer--not astronomically raising prices. Raise prices too high, and now normal people can't get stuff because they simply can't afford it--not because others have hoarded it all. The loss in supply is artificial due to vastly unequal distribution. This situation is really bringing out the selfish sociopath in a lot of people. Another thing--the people doing the price gouging are really just hoarders themselves--they're hoarding everyone else's cash, which then gives them the resources to actually hoard lots of supplies. It's greed, fear, and selfishness all rolled into one. At the rate this is all going, people will have to start selling themselves into slavery just to keep food on the table. That's what will happen when the supply chain totally breaks down, the police are all gone, and organized crime starts taking claiming territory. I doubt it. |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 9:24:41 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ah, and away we go. "He was charging $3 a gallon for gas after a hurricane! He should be drug out and shot!" What price should this non-hypothetical guy be selling at? What if he decides not to sell at government enforced pricing? Should he also be forced to open and do that? And how long does the gasoline last at regular pricing in a crisis? Will the guy order another tanker truck? And on and on. But feeeeeels! do people argue free market economics at a armed angry crowed and expect results where you get paid in a time of crisis? |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 9:34:07 AM EDT
[#39]
OP is missing a third concept: the price gouger may/could/should suffer reputation damage and lose future sales in proportion to how much they increased prices. That's a completely normal response that businesses and individuals shouldn't be protected from. It keeps prices from going too high when demand is unlimited.
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Posted: 4/2/2020 9:45:09 AM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: The law of supply and demand tells us...yabba, dabba, doooo! Enjoy your cavity search and federal property seizure. Brooklyn Man Arrested by FBI for Hoarding N95 Masks and Price Gouging Video: FBI Warehouse Raid A Brooklyn man claiming to be infected with the coronavirus coughed on FBI agents who were investigating him for hoarding medical supplies, the US Attorney’s Office said Monday. Baruch Feldheim, 43, is facing charges of assault and making false statements to the feds on Sunday outside his Borough Park home where he allegedly peddled and stored massive amounts of N95 respirator masks, federal officials said. Feldheim is also accused of price-gouging. On March 18, he’s suspected of selling a New Jersey doctor about 1,000 of the masks for $12,000, a markup of roughly 700 percent, authorities said. |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 9:46:44 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: do people argue free market economics at a armed angry crowed and expect results where you get paid in a time of crisis? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Ah, and away we go. "He was charging $3 a gallon for gas after a hurricane! He should be drug out and shot!" What price should this non-hypothetical guy be selling at? What if he decides not to sell at government enforced pricing? Should he also be forced to open and do that? And how long does the gasoline last at regular pricing in a crisis? Will the guy order another tanker truck? And on and on. But feeeeeels! do people argue free market economics at a armed angry crowed and expect results where you get paid in a time of crisis? Either your post is unclear or I'm screwed up: are you claiming that right and wrong are determined by which side can raise the largest angry mob? |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 9:48:46 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Even CTD-level gouging. I won't buy from them, but if somebody REALLY wanted to pay $900 for a case of M193, it was available No one cares that CTD raised prices. People care that CTD canceled already placed orders at the lower prices to resell the goods at the vastly higher prices. |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 9:49:27 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Seems to me the prudent thing to do would be to limit quantities instead of raising the price. I guess it's easier to just jam the price way up and make bank off of paranoia. Fuck 'em Limiting quantities doesn't temper demand with the truth about supply. If the quantities are limited people are more likely to buy up to the limit whether they need the item or not because of human nature. The limit on purchases reinforces their belief that the item is in peril or running out and therefore they should buy the most they can right now. With a higher cost that same person would be inclined to buy only what they actually need rather than hording whatever they can get at the time. |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 9:51:42 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Enjoy your cavity search and federal property seizure. Brooklyn Man Arrested by FBI for Hoarding N95 Masks and Price Gouging Video: FBI Warehouse Raid Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The law of supply and demand tells us...yabba, dabba, doooo! Enjoy your cavity search and federal property seizure. Brooklyn Man Arrested by FBI for Hoarding N95 Masks and Price Gouging Video: FBI Warehouse Raid A Brooklyn man claiming to be infected with the coronavirus coughed on FBI agents who were investigating him for hoarding medical supplies, the US Attorney’s Office said Monday. Baruch Feldheim, 43, is facing charges of assault and making false statements to the feds on Sunday outside his Borough Park home where he allegedly peddled and stored massive amounts of N95 respirator masks, federal officials said. Feldheim is also accused of price-gouging. On March 18, he’s suspected of selling a New Jersey doctor about 1,000 of the masks for $12,000, a markup of roughly 700 percent, authorities said. Emotionally price gouging "feels" like it's wrong to the non-thinking public. Therefore political organizations such as the FBI will make sure that the person using good economic principles is punished for wrongthink. |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 9:56:48 AM EDT
[#45]
To those here that don’t understand the difference between capitalism and exploitation of a deadly crisis for profit, enjoy your new laws because they ARE coming.
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Posted: 4/2/2020 9:59:53 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: To those here that don’t understand the difference between capitalism and exploitation of a deadly crisis for profit, enjoy your new laws because they ARE coming. By people that confuse feelings with facts and don't understand basic economics. I'll refer you to Thomas Sewell's writings on the matter. https://townhall.com/columnists/thomassowell/2004/09/14/price-gouging-in-florida-n944053 |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 10:01:52 AM EDT
[#47]
As usual, OP is spot on. People who complain about things like price gouging are a huge part of the reason we can't have nice things.
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Posted: 4/2/2020 10:31:29 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Everything can be spun. Like I said I understand it and don't necessarily disagree with it. Just don't expect me to consider the guy hoarding baby formula to extort desperate families in order to make a profit during a crisis to be a saint Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That is not spin. It's fact and economic law. Would you rather have those families do without? High prices ensure availability when demand increases. Price controls create sustained shortages. |
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Posted: 4/2/2020 10:32:23 AM EDT
[#49]
72hr auction
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Posted: 4/2/2020 10:34:56 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Non-essential items and supplies... I don’t think IGAF how much price gouging goes on. Essentials (food, water, gas) or certain items uniquely important to the situation (hand sanitizer, PPE) ought to be rationed and/or apportioned appropriately. Define and explain "apportioned" for me if you would... |
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