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Posted: 3/27/2024 12:41:49 PM EDT
[#1]
In.
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Posted: 3/27/2024 12:41:56 PM EDT
[#2]
Ah shit….
In befor DF3 lock for wrong forum. Also MiHec or MP molds are sexxx. I have several, hollowpoint pins both pentagonal and round and the FP offerings for each mold. Lee 6 cavity will get you in the game and making shitloads of projos in no time |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 12:45:47 PM EDT
[#3]
Ok. Lead, pure lead is best for BP shooting. For modern shit, alloy with some tin or antimony. Common scrounger sources are hallmarked pewter from thrift stores or yardsales. Antimony best found in old print type letters.
Tin helps fill the mold better and prevent bullet wrinkles. Sizing dies: they all work, a micrometer will prove that. Star makes the best sizer out there but is $$$. Lee sizers work just fine. A dedicated single stage press helps. Powder coat: if memory serves the black airsoft bbs from walmart work perfect. Harbor freight red sticks the best. You want a separare thermometer in your oven to ensure priper curing temp. Size after PC |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 12:54:18 PM EDT
[#4]
There are some good threads in the reloading forum on casting/coating.
You will need to harden dead soft lead unless you are casting for a muzzle loader. https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Bullet-casters-Do-you-resize-your-projectiles-after-casting-/42-549907/ https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Loading-Powdercoated-Bullets/42-549033/ https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Powder-Coating-101/42-543212/ https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/Considering-getting-into-casting/42-470022/ |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 12:54:40 PM EDT
[#5]
Gas checks should not be considered if you are powder coating. It is redundant and not needed. The gas check was in place to prevent flash melting the lead, powder coating does the same shit without the extra device on the bullet.
Temp your lead, too hot creates lead vapors. Too cold prevents clean looking bullets. Preheat your mold, first few castings get recycled. Once the mold is casting nice projos run it until they look frosty and then let the mold cool a bit. Mold material has a big impact in getting up to temp. Alum molds are quickest to get clean bullets but also quickest to get frosty. Steel (lyman for example) take a little longer but can prolong a casting session before overheating. Weigh your projos aftter, it will deviate from the mold. 147 9mm mold may cast 153gr projectiles. This variance is due to the alloy being used. Helps with reload data if chronos are involved I typically rotate two molds during a session, letting one cool on the furnace while casting with the second and swapping. If sourcing wheel weights, separate clip on weights from stick on. Stick on are more pure lead and need different amounts if goodness. Clip on are pretty much castable once melted and cleaned with wax or other flux. Flux all your raw shit, sawdust or wax are my go-to options |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 12:55:21 PM EDT
[#6]
Ok. Thumbs are tired. Ill check in later.
Eta: Lunch beers engage: Powder coat is a cheap ziploc tupperware container, about 3 layers of airsoft bbs and a few .45acp chells full of powder. Plop in raw casting and shake that bitch. Once covered, put in toaster oven at proper cure temp and time for PC being used. It differs from where you source your PC so pay the fuck attention to that shit. Size after curing. If PC’ing then ignore all the fuckers saying “water cool” to add hardness. Pc bonds like a motherfucker and watercooling is just a waste of time. Load and shoot, pistol rounds dont really get to deformation velocities. If casting .224 projos there is some trial and error WRT hardness and velocity. PC is replacing a jacket for your projectile. It does not transfer to your barrel if cured correctly. Shoot steel and go pick up your PC lead pancakes to prove this point |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 12:56:19 PM EDT
[#7]
I made hard cast bullets for a manufacturer in the early 90s.
Plumber's lead will make for a soft bullet that will lead up your guns. You'll want to mix it at least 50/50 with Linotype, which is an alloy they used to use in newsprint. It consists of Lead (84%), Antimony (12%) and tin (4%). This will give you a good hard cast bullet. Linotype is too brittle on its own so you mix it with plumbers lead, wheel weights, etc. at a 50/50 ratio. But I made some pretty fun loads with quenched antimony and linotype, too. We used to molycoat bullets and sold them as "Enviro" bullets for indoor ranges. We used to pound the powder into the bullet by mixing freshly cast bullets with the powder and steel bb shot in a cement mixer; then bake them in an oven and finally lube and size. I've probably forgotten more about it than I remember. Hit me up if you have specific questions, I actually have handwritten notebooks that I've been meaning to turn into articles or books for over 25 years. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 1:01:52 PM EDT
[#8]
I have a bunch of lead just in case and made some buckshot loads witha buddy of mine a while ago. But after doing some math I've decided to just buy plated bullets. Between the extra work and extra time the savings just aren't worth it to me.
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Posted: 3/27/2024 1:21:18 PM EDT
[#9]
Lots of good tips so far. I cast for handguns, shotgun, rifle and muzzleloader.
It's time consuming. Lead and mold both need to be hot. If they're cold, you get wrinkled/deformed bullets that must be remelted. If you go too hot, they frost and may sag oblong if they're on a hard surface. (This is actually why I water drop, though I did use it for increasing hardness before powder coating made alloy less important). Now I just want enough tin for good mold fill out. Powder coat is another layer of PITA, but it allows you to use cheap, soft lead with a little tin, as you can essentially get the benefits of soft alloys (consistent obturation/fit/gas seal even if throat/cylinder sizing is slightly off) without the downside of poor fitting hard bullets (leading). OP has already passed the first rule of casting: "Have lots of lead". |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 1:22:32 PM EDT
[#10]
I use hitek for coating
Theres not too much to it imho. You melt the lead and pour it into your mold. The first pile of stuff you make you basically just throw it back in until the mold is up to temp. The bullets wont have little wiggly lines and such. Youll know when they look right. If they get a kind of frosty look that means youre getting too hot.  
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Posted: 3/27/2024 1:25:25 PM EDT
[#11]
How do you control the hardness of the cast lead when you're dealing with lead scrap of unknown hardness? How do you know how much antimony to add?
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Posted: 3/27/2024 1:28:35 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How do you control the hardness of the cast lead when you're dealing with lead scrap of unknown hardness? How do you know how much antimony to add? You guess and play with it Hardness doesnt seem to be as important as others have made out in my experience. Granted Im not shooting 2K FPS with my cast stuff |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 1:29:21 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 3/27/2024 1:31:14 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How do you control the hardness of the cast lead when you're dealing with lead scrap of unknown hardness? How do you know how much antimony to add? Melt in batches. Pre-ingot gets everything. Usually 50# in a cast iron dutch oven for me. You blend each source with all the others. From the ingot, you know what that batch is and add the alloy by weight to meet your needs in the casting pot. I have two separate vessels for basic cleaning/ingot making and one for final casting. My ingots weigh x.x lbs so I add the proper amount of alloy materials for each ingot going in the mix. It wouldnt pass muster with a scientist but the percentage variance is miniscule. Especially if Im casting 9mm for uzi/range food. Lee sells a hardness tester. I never cared about it until i got one at a yardsale  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 1:38:01 PM EDT
[#15]
You are headed down the road I just went down OP.
I have a source of lead from a local place and it is all fired bullets, so it has a little alloying in it, but I dont really track it. I am running Lee molds, I havent gotten any others yet. I use a Lee pot for casting bullets and a larger cast iron one for melting the raw lead down into ingots. I have been using Lee sizing dies in one of the little $30 Lee single stage presses. I also started doing powder coat from the start and have been really happy with that. I am using the powder from Eastwood, specifically the blue. The red and white dont seem to do as well. My usual process is: cast the bullet -> powder coat -> size -> load Thats all there is to it. I am going to start trying to coat the bullets better, but for now I shake them in a yogurt container with the powder and put them in a chicken wire tray to bake. I have to break them apart after baking, but I havent seen any other problems from doing them in a big pile. You get some small places that lose the coating to the bullet next to them, but they are small and havent caused any problems. I am doing bullets for .45ACP, .38SPL, 300BO and 45-70 so far. I have dies for 9mm, but Im not bothering at this point. Its a lot of fun! 
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Posted: 3/27/2024 1:42:21 PM EDT
[#16]
Mix it with pure lead. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 1:48:29 PM EDT
[#17]
I don't use mixed scrap. You really cannot tell what the hell you are getting hardness wise from batch to batch. When you get it wrong you spend the weekend scrubbing lead out of a rifle bore.
 I buy old sailboat keel weights. It's a 5% antimony mix and is plenty hard enough for rifle rounds. I don't use gas checks anymore since powdercoating became a thing. The sailboat yard will even load it in your truck for you with a forklift. I only cast rifle rounds. Commercial pistol bullets are incredibly cheap and not worth the time. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 1:50:44 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Midway sells lead hardening bars Mix it with pure lead. Roto Metals also has alloying bars and is probably cheaper. roto Metals bullet casting alloys You could probably call them and ask how much hardening alloy you will need for the amount of pure lead you have. Generally speaking, a Brinell hardness of 11 is about right for pistol bullets. Pure lead is about 5 on the Brinell hardness scale. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 2:02:29 PM EDT
[#19]
Whatever you're casting, do a few at first and test them in whatever you're planning to use them in. I have a 6 hole Lee RNFP 120gr .358 mold that I size to .356 for 9mm, but some of my guns don't like them. I have a 1 hole 120gr truncated cone mold (I forget the brand, old mold) I found on Ebay that works in everything. Go figure. Lee molds do work well, 150gr gas checked HiTek coated .308 in my 30-30 are 1moa with room for improvement.
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Posted: 3/27/2024 2:07:54 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Melt in batches. Pre-ingot gets everything. Usually 50# in a cast iron dutch oven for me. You blend each source with all the others. From the ingot, you know what that batch is and add the alloy by weight to meet your needs in the casting pot. I have two separate vessels for basic cleaning/ingot making and one for final casting. My ingots weigh x.x lbs so I add the proper amount of alloy materials for each ingot going in the mix. It wouldnt pass muster with a scientist but the percentage variance is miniscule. Especially if Im casting 9mm for uzi/range food. Lee sells a hardness tester. I never cared about it until i got one at a yardsalehttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/150826/IMG_7976_jpeg-3170939.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/150826/59781304020__DFB2E67E-42BB-4783-8224-338-3170941.JPG How did you get your powder to stick so much and so evenly? My powder refused to stick to the bullet, and when I baked them, it came out clumpy and looked like so bad of shit, I dont think I even have a picture of them. HF Black PC, put in a tupperware with airsoft pellets and shook the everloving shit out of them. would not stick to my casts. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 2:19:57 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How did you get your powder to stick so much and so evenly? My powder refused to stick to the bullet, and when I baked them, it came out clumpy and looked like so bad of shit, I dont think I even have a picture of them. HF Black PC, put in a tupperware with airsoft pellets and shook the everloving shit out of them. would not stick to my casts. Black airsoft bbs. HF black was notoriously garbage in the early PC days. Switch to their red. And make damn sure you are using the black bbs. The green and blue were purchases from castboolits. Critical ingreds are the black BBs. And not the HF black. Red was the only one that was worth a shit. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 2:21:28 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How did you get your powder to stick so much and so evenly? My powder refused to stick to the bullet, and when I baked them, it came out clumpy and looked like so bad of shit, I dont think I even have a picture of them. HF Black PC, put in a tupperware with airsoft pellets and shook the everloving shit out of them. would not stick to my casts. @pestilence12 In addition to above, there is something about the static buildup of that combination (black bbs and HF red) that did not exist witg the black PC |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 2:25:49 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @pestilence12 In addition to above, there is something about the static buildup of that combination (black bbs and HF red) that did not exist witg the black PC Ok, so its just the black specifically? I can get the other colors and try it. Side note. How the f do you get baked on shit-ass PC off of perfectly good lead casts? Recast them? |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 2:29:48 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How did you get your powder to stick so much and so evenly? My powder refused to stick to the bullet, and when I baked them, it came out clumpy and looked like so bad of shit, I dont think I even have a picture of them. HF Black PC, put in a tupperware with airsoft pellets and shook the everloving shit out of them. would not stick to my casts. Some of the HF powder doesn’t work with the shake and bake method. Swirling in the container rather than shaking is supposed to be better. I get my powder from Smoke over at Castboolits. ETA: Powder that works for bullets |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 2:29:53 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How did you get your powder to stick so much and so evenly? My powder refused to stick to the bullet, and when I baked them, it came out clumpy and looked like so bad of shit, I dont think I even have a picture of them. HF Black PC, put in a tupperware with airsoft pellets and shook the everloving shit out of them. would not stick to my casts. Some powders do poorly tumbled, and HF black is known to be one of them. I recall their red works just fine. I think white was also bad. I've been buying Eastwood and other slightly blingier coatings for years. While HF worked fine, the others look cooler and the cost of coating is damn near negligible. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 2:30:01 PM EDT
[#26]
I tried all kinds of squirrley shit. Pics below from 2015 or earlier
Cant find any pics of my .38 tuna cans (75gr wc) duplex loads. That shit was awesome. Two 75gr projectiles stacked in a .38 special load.  Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 2:31:45 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, so its just the black specifically? I can get the other colors and try it. Side note. How the f do you get baked on shit-ass PC off of perfectly good lead casts? Recast them? Recasting is the only way. Once pc is on there it is on for the ride. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 2:32:20 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Recasting is the only way. Once pc is on there it is on for the ride. Copy that, thank you |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 2:42:37 PM EDT
[#29]
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Posted: 3/27/2024 2:52:12 PM EDT
[#30]
Plan carefully to match your mold, powder coat, sizer dies, and weapon systems for perfection. Resizing and or stuffing oversize 458 into brass is a job.
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Posted: 3/27/2024 2:55:50 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Plan carefully to match your mold, powder coat, sizer dies, and weapon systems for perfection. Resizing and or stuffing oversize 458 into brass is a job. Or cast a metric shitton of 9mm Load said shitton of 9mm Feed same shitload into 9mm platforms errewhere. I realize to get max performance you can slug your barrel, match sizing die, label brass and marry each lot to the gun it is intended for. Buck19delta doesnt seem like that type of loader. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 2:59:17 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok. Lead, pure lead is best for BP shooting. For modern shit, alloy with some tin or antimony. Common scrounger sources are hallmarked pewter from thrift stores or yardsales. Antimony best found in old print type letters. Tin helps fill the mold better and prevent bullet wrinkles. Sizing dies: they all work, a micrometer will prove that. Star makes the best sizer out there but is $$$. Lee sizers work just fine. A dedicated single stage press helps. Powder coat: if memory serves the black airsoft bbs from walmart work perfect. Harbor freight red sticks the best. You want a separare thermometer in your oven to ensure priper curing temp. Size after PC This. I'm always scrounging pewter from thrift stores. It melts just as easily as lead. Cast with the same ingot mold and mark accordingly. It's been a while so I forget at what percentages you mix for various hardness, but I'm sure that info is available online. I use Lee bullet sizing dies. They work fine for what I do. As a matter of fact, I've got a Lee .361 bullet sizer on the way for some 38 S&W I'm going to work up. Best place for all info on this subjects is castboolits.gunloads.com |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 3:04:17 PM EDT
[#33]
I used to powder coat.
Now all I use is Hitec Bullet Coating. Much easier than spraying and works great. Resize after coating using a cheap lyman push through resizer. NOE bullet moulds are great. There's also a european company that makes excellent brass moulds (just can't remember their name). Lead wheel weights (if you can find them) for casting lead. I've casted countless thousands of bullets. It's the only way I can afford to shoot.  Sig-P320-Legion by Colo CJ, on Flickr
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Posted: 3/27/2024 3:33:53 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You guess and play with it Hardness doesnt seem to be as important as others have made out in my experience. Granted Im not shooting 2K FPS with my cast stuff Having your bullets properly sized to the throat is more important than hardness in preventing leading. |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 3:35:08 PM EDT
[#35]
If you find a need to resize a cast bullet to a non-standard size to make it work better, buy a Lee sizing die slightly smaller than what you need, then use a sanding roll in a drill to open it up. I peel off the outer paper until it just fits the hole slightly snug, and hone it out, testing it as I go until it produces the size I need. Polish as needed when done, and mark the new size. I use something like these, with a fine grit roll.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 3/27/2024 3:38:04 PM EDT
[#36]
Lead casting is fun. It's a little unnerving at first. I use lee molds for 9mm and .45LC. RCBS for .45ACP. I don't have issues with either. For pistol rounds I don't worry about hardening the lead. I just powder coat.
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Posted: 3/27/2024 3:56:45 PM EDT
[#37]
Pure lead is soft for pistol or gas checked rifle bullets. You're going to want to add something to harden it. Tin / Antimony is most common. I had been getting 92/6/2 hardball lead from a foundry when I lived in AZ.
I have 2 casters. A master caster from magma engineering and I have a Ballisticast Mark X which is no longer available. I dry tumble powder coat and bake a single coat 1 time. My wife and I have shot over 150k of my cast bullets in USPSA and they got me to Master so they produce sufficient accuracy. You will want to cast at about .002 - .003 over. My 9mm are water dropped at .358 and I size down to .356. Same with .40, .45 and .300 BO. There is a ton of info available on the web. CastBoolits is invaluable.    Mark X video |
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Posted: 3/31/2024 9:27:41 PM EDT
[#38]
I'm curious whether .30 cal lead wire is something relevant to reloading?
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Posted: 3/31/2024 9:36:00 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm curious whether .30 cal lead wire is something relevant to reloading? It would be used with a cutter to cut cores to be swaged into jackets. You can cast cores too but cut wire would be more consistent. Few people swage bullets nowadays, the dies and presses are available but it's time consuming and not particularly economical unless you have something very particular in mind. I sold my old setup with a derimming die for 224 bullets back during covid for an absurd profit... if I made more than a few hundred bullets with it in the several years I had it I'd be surprised. If you did have something particular in mind, you'd probably be better off building the dies yourself anyway. Nothing special about them and they can be built from readily available blank die bodies with some heavy modifications if you have a lathe and perhaps a mill. |
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Posted: 3/31/2024 9:42:17 PM EDT
[#40]
As others have recommended, the Cast Boolits forum has hundreds of lifetimes worth of casting experience.
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Posted: 3/31/2024 11:35:10 PM EDT
[#41]
Cool, thanks. Just picked it up at a garage sale and wondered about it.
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Posted: 3/31/2024 11:47:53 PM EDT
[#42]
Yep.
I cast for my 45-70 and 45-90, and have been for over a decade.  Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 2:45:22 PM EDT
[#43]
iv scored around 100lbs of soft lead over the last month, could have gotten much more, but working on other stuff too. they dont have a BUNCH, or get in a bunch of lead, but they do get lead in, mainly plumbers roofing lead, car battery clamps, some wheel weights, and oddball lead chunks / objects people cast on their own, fishing weights, and occasionally / rarely lead bars. .75 cents a lb isnt bad. i never mess with the wheel weights as these days its mainly zinc, i lean towards soft lead, plumbers lead, etc so i can be pretty sure it doesnt contain zinc. its not hard to tell, two lead blocks, drop one, clunk ! knife cuts deeply, yeah, ill take this one. bar 2, TING ! knife can barely scratch it, nope, dont want it.
ill have to probably splurge for a hardness tester eventually to control hardness, and round up a bunch of pewder, or linotype, etc for adding hardness. basically just been obtaining raw supplies for years, and some lee molds occasionally, but i definately need more molds and would like some nice brass molds eventually, and add powder coating, and equipment for sizing bullets. found a heavy gage aluminum pot recently, and also have a cast iron one too, might add a spout pour to it with valve lever like a lee pot has for melting lead in bulk into ingots. whuich i do when i have 200-400 lbs in a pile of random lead objects to melt into 1lb ingots. |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 3:21:49 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: iv scored around 100lbs of soft lead over the last month, could have gotten much more, but working on other stuff too. they dont have a BUNCH, or get in a bunch of lead, but they do get lead in, mainly plumbers roofing lead, car battery clamps, some wheel weights, and oddball lead chunks / objects people cast on their own, fishing weights, and occasionally / rarely lead bars. .75 cents a lb isnt bad. i never mess with the wheel weights as these days its mainly zinc, i lean towards soft lead, plumbers lead, etc so i can be pretty sure it doesnt contain zinc. its not hard to tell, two lead blocks, drop one, clunk ! knife cuts deeply, yeah, ill take this one. bar 2, TING ! knife can barely scratch it, nope, dont want it. ill have to probably splurge for a hardness tester eventually to control hardness, and round up a bunch of pewder, or linotype, etc for adding hardness. basically just been obtaining raw supplies for years, and some lee molds occasionally, but i definately need more molds and would like some nice brass molds eventually, and add powder coating, and equipment for sizing bullets. found a heavy gage aluminum pot recently, and also have a cast iron one too, might add a spout pour to it with valve lever like a lee pot has for melting lead in bulk into ingots. whuich i do when i have 200-400 lbs in a pile of random lead objects to melt into 1lb ingots. Just powder coat, and hardness/alloy & buying antimony become nearly irrelevant at handgun/pcc velocities. With PC you can load cheap 98/2 lead/tin and shoot with no leading and all of the advantages a softer bullet has (namely better bore fit/seal as it expands easily). The sole use for antimony at that point is to harden for a heavy hunting bullet that doesn't expand, or possibly for rifles over 2000fps-ish. |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 3:24:14 PM EDT
[#45]
Just turn them on a lathe from tungsten; so much more penetration.
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Posted: 4/10/2024 3:27:34 PM EDT
[#46]
Do it! It is almost as fun as shooting.
I make a lot of 45 colt, 45-70 and 38/357 rounds. Powder coating is great. For my old guns I do nearly pure lead and natural bullet lube. Super fun and makes shooting things like a 45-70 affordable. |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 3:28:19 PM EDT
[#47]
Wheel weights are your best option for cheap hard lead. 1/2 COWW and 1/2 soft lead makes great pistol bullets. You can try and track down some linotype or monotype but neither are cheap anymore.
I still have about 1000lbs of water pipe left to melt down. Done about 800lbs of COWW and another 800lbs of various soft lead so far this winter.  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 3:49:37 PM EDT
[#48]
The experts...
It is easy to start but there are a shitload of rabbit holes to go down. I suggest starting with water quenched wheel weights eventually getting to polycoating. Swaging, home made jacketed are bridges too far for me but hey, go for it if you want. |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 5:31:44 PM EDT
[#49]
For powder coating - do not use the Harbour Freight stuff. There's a member on Cast Boolits no that sells good powder and I've used Eastwood. The Lynn Cast bullet manual is a great reference tool.
So far the only lead bullets I pc's and gas checked were the Lee Bators. Finally after a lot of trial and error got decent accuracy AND cycling. |
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Posted: 4/10/2024 5:32:23 PM EDT
[#50]
For powder coating - do not use the Harbour Freight stuff. There's a member on Cast Boolits no that sells good powder and I've used Eastwood. The Lynn Cast bullet manual is a great reference tool.
So far the only lead bullets I pc's and gas checked were the Lee Bators. Finally after a lot of trial and error got decent accuracy AND cycling. And yes you should be asking in the reloading sub forum. |
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