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Originally Posted By SCR556: Are you part of any of the churches in Asia? Originally Posted By SCR556: Originally Posted By Bishop3: The Book of Revelation itself is addressed to His bondservants and the seven churches in Asia. It is a message for the churches. Are you part of any of the churches in Asia? Galations is written to us so this applies to us. Actually the book of Galatians is written specifically to churches in Galatia. Are you a part of a church in Galatia? I mean, if you’re going to advocate for silly interpretations of scripture at least be consistent with the silliness. |
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Originally Posted By RunsonCLP: @Bishop3 How can I tell if I am obeying what Jesus said to do. If you read the threads you, and others, post one would believe you need a doctorate in theology and ME history to understand the Bible. I do read quite a few of your posts trying to figure them out. And it is in those that I see even the most learned here do not agree with many biblical ideas. So, how is an ignorant layman such as my self supposed to find salvation if those talking about salvation cannot always agree on the path. Originally Posted By RunsonCLP: Originally Posted By Bishop3: Does God give His Holy Spirit only to those who obey Him? @Bishop3 How can I tell if I am obeying what Jesus said to do. If you read the threads you, and others, post one would believe you need a doctorate in theology and ME history to understand the Bible. I do read quite a few of your posts trying to figure them out. And it is in those that I see even the most learned here do not agree with many biblical ideas. So, how is an ignorant layman such as my self supposed to find salvation if those talking about salvation cannot always agree on the path. @RunsonCLP Ahhh...! was my very thoughts this morning with the 'doublesplusgood' post. Yes, sir and thank you. You see my friend knowing God isn't necessarily an intellectual requirement at all. Jesus is the Son of God. You do not have to be an intellectual or a theologian. To know God, this isn't theology it is kneeolgy. Reaching out (prayer) to God through His Son - a Father Son relationship. God is a Father, you know this through His Holy spirit, because Jesus is the Son of God. Agreement is most important; do we agree with God? That is a form of repentance. His Way not ours. My sinful ways never brought me near God. Jesus is the Way. I will to daily surrender to His will. God relates to us through His Word and our spirit. Now, do I want to study His Word? Yes, His Word is Truth. 2 Timothy 2:15 NASB1995 [15] Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. https://bible.com/bible/100/2ti.2.15.NASB1995 Jesus is alive. We have an inner witness, He is the Holy Spirit. I'll follow up on this I'm at my place of employment. Thank you again. Eta: grammar, spelling |
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Originally Posted By RunsonCLP: @Bishop3 How can I tell if I am obeying what Jesus said to do. If you read the threads you, and others, post one would believe you need a doctorate in theology and ME history to understand the Bible. I do read quite a few of your posts trying to figure them out. And it is in those that I see even the most learned here do not agree with many biblical ideas. So, how is an ignorant layman such as my self supposed to find salvation if those talking about salvation cannot always agree on the path. Originally Posted By RunsonCLP: Originally Posted By Bishop3: Does God give His Holy Spirit only to those who obey Him? @Bishop3 How can I tell if I am obeying what Jesus said to do. If you read the threads you, and others, post one would believe you need a doctorate in theology and ME history to understand the Bible. I do read quite a few of your posts trying to figure them out. And it is in those that I see even the most learned here do not agree with many biblical ideas. So, how is an ignorant layman such as my self supposed to find salvation if those talking about salvation cannot always agree on the path. Hey. I’ve graded enough math papers to know that just because a lot of people get the answer wrong doesn’t mean that there isn’t right answers. So the basics? Repent of your sins and trust in the finished work of Jesus Christ who is God in flesh. One can neither obey or even fully understand the Bible outside of a relationship with Jesus Christ. Get plugged into a church that takes Bible teaching seriously. Christianity is a team sport and is meant to be lived in community with other believers. Read your Bible. Just like anything, you’re going to struggle at first. But the more you read the more you understand. When you find yourself stuck, read books written by other believers- that’s a part of the whole living in community thing I mentioned before. A couple good ones that will help get you started is How to Read the Bible and Bible Doctrines |
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Originally Posted By JAD762: Actually the book of Galatians is written specifically to churches in Galatia. Are you a part of a church in Galatia? I mean, if you’re going to advocate for silly interpretations of scripture at least be consistent with the silliness. Originally Posted By JAD762: Originally Posted By SCR556: Originally Posted By Bishop3: The Book of Revelation itself is addressed to His bondservants and the seven churches in Asia. It is a message for the churches. Are you part of any of the churches in Asia? Galations is written to us so this applies to us. Actually the book of Galatians is written specifically to churches in Galatia. Are you a part of a church in Galatia? I mean, if you’re going to advocate for silly interpretations of scripture at least be consistent with the silliness. It is soooo freeing to know that if we are not one of the people that books in the Bible were originally addressed to, then those uber-restrictive verses don't apply to us. I wish I had known that when I was a Protestant. A few weeks before becoming Catholic, the deacon teaching RCIA asked us to go to confession to see what it was like. When I walked into what serves as a confessional at that church, I told the priest why I was there. He told me I wasn't Catholic and I should not be there to confess sins until I was Catholic. I replied, "So, what you're telling me is that between now and the time I become Catholic, I've got carte blanche to do whatever I want?" The look on his face told me that he had never met someone so skilled in the art of finding exceptions to the rule. I have been surpassed in this thread. |
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Originally Posted By monadh: It is soooo freeing to know that if we are not one of the people that books in the Bible were originally addressed to, then those uber-restrictive verses don't apply to us. I wish I had known that when I was a Protestant. A few weeks before becoming Catholic, the deacon teaching RCIA asked us to go to confession to see what it was like. When I walked into what serves as a confessional at that church, I told the priest why I was there. He told me I wasn't Catholic and I should not be there to confess sins until I was Catholic. I replied, "So, what you're telling me is that between now and the time I become Catholic, I've got carte blanche to do whatever I want?" The look on his face told me that he had never met someone so skilled in the art of finding exceptions to the rule. I have been surpassed in this thread. Originally Posted By monadh: Originally Posted By JAD762: Originally Posted By SCR556: Originally Posted By Bishop3: The Book of Revelation itself is addressed to His bondservants and the seven churches in Asia. It is a message for the churches. Are you part of any of the churches in Asia? Galations is written to us so this applies to us. Actually the book of Galatians is written specifically to churches in Galatia. Are you a part of a church in Galatia? I mean, if you’re going to advocate for silly interpretations of scripture at least be consistent with the silliness. It is soooo freeing to know that if we are not one of the people that books in the Bible were originally addressed to, then those uber-restrictive verses don't apply to us. I wish I had known that when I was a Protestant. A few weeks before becoming Catholic, the deacon teaching RCIA asked us to go to confession to see what it was like. When I walked into what serves as a confessional at that church, I told the priest why I was there. He told me I wasn't Catholic and I should not be there to confess sins until I was Catholic. I replied, "So, what you're telling me is that between now and the time I become Catholic, I've got carte blanche to do whatever I want?" The look on his face told me that he had never met someone so skilled in the art of finding exceptions to the rule. I have been surpassed in this thread. Ok my dude, it’s been a long day and my social battery is pretty drained so I’m just going to ask… Are playing along with my sarcasm or not picking up my sarcasm here? |
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Originally Posted By RunsonCLP: @Bishop3 How can I tell if I am obeying what Jesus said to do. If you read the threads you, and others, post one would believe you need a doctorate in theology and ME history to understand the Bible. I do read quite a few of your posts trying to figure them out. And it is in those that I see even the most learned here do not agree with many biblical ideas. So, how is an ignorant layman such as my self supposed to find salvation if those talking about salvation cannot always agree on the path. Originally Posted By RunsonCLP: Originally Posted By Bishop3: Does God give His Holy Spirit only to those who obey Him? @Bishop3 How can I tell if I am obeying what Jesus said to do. If you read the threads you, and others, post one would believe you need a doctorate in theology and ME history to understand the Bible. I do read quite a few of your posts trying to figure them out. And it is in those that I see even the most learned here do not agree with many biblical ideas. So, how is an ignorant layman such as my self supposed to find salvation if those talking about salvation cannot always agree on the path. In following up with your question about obedience. We are saved because of the perfect obedience of Christ. He has given us His Holy Spirit, He is our counselor, comforter; He teaches us and leads into all truth. The Holy Spirit is how we know, our hearts are assured. Ephesians 4:30 NASB1995 [30] Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. https://bible.com/bible/100/eph.4.30.NASB1995 Acts 5:32 NASB1995 [32] And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him.” https://bible.com/bible/100/act.5.32.NASB1995 Hebrews 5:7-9 NASB1995 [7] In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety.  Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. [9] And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation, https://bible.com/bible/100/heb.5.7-9.NASB1995 1 John 3:18-24 NASB1995 [18] Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. [19] We will know by this that we are of the truth, and will assure our heart before Him [20] in whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things. [21] Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; [22] and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight. [23] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. [24] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. https://bible.com/bible/100/1jn.3.18-24.NASB1995 God bless you. |
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Originally Posted By monadh: It is soooo freeing to know that if we are not one of the people that books in the Bible were originally addressed to, then those uber-restrictive verses don't apply to us. I wish I had known that when I was a Protestant. A few weeks before becoming Catholic, the deacon teaching RCIA asked us to go to confession to see what it was like. When I walked into what serves as a confessional at that church, I told the priest why I was there. He told me I wasn't Catholic and I should not be there to confess sins until I was Catholic. I replied, "So, what you're telling me is that between now and the time I become Catholic, I've got carte blanche to do whatever I want?" The look on his face told me that he had never met someone so skilled in the art of finding exceptions to the rule. I have been surpassed in this thread. Originally Posted By monadh: Originally Posted By JAD762: Originally Posted By SCR556: Originally Posted By Bishop3: The Book of Revelation itself is addressed to His bondservants and the seven churches in Asia. It is a message for the churches. Are you part of any of the churches in Asia? Galations is written to us so this applies to us. Actually the book of Galatians is written specifically to churches in Galatia. Are you a part of a church in Galatia? I mean, if you’re going to advocate for silly interpretations of scripture at least be consistent with the silliness. It is soooo freeing to know that if we are not one of the people that books in the Bible were originally addressed to, then those uber-restrictive verses don't apply to us. I wish I had known that when I was a Protestant. A few weeks before becoming Catholic, the deacon teaching RCIA asked us to go to confession to see what it was like. When I walked into what serves as a confessional at that church, I told the priest why I was there. He told me I wasn't Catholic and I should not be there to confess sins until I was Catholic. I replied, "So, what you're telling me is that between now and the time I become Catholic, I've got carte blanche to do whatever I want?" The look on his face told me that he had never met someone so skilled in the art of finding exceptions to the rule. I have been surpassed in this thread. I hadn't really thought of that... Reconciliation is usually the second sacrament kids receive, and necessary before they ever do Communion. So, I think of the only sacramental "prerequisite" as Baptism. So I hadn't really thought through how a baptized Protestant who hadn't been confirmed yet to "reconcile" with a Church he hadn't "conciled" with yet. Mind. Blown. Oh, and I agree that it looks like JAD762's sarcasm went over your head. |
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Originally Posted By Bishop3: In following up with your question about obedience. We are saved because of the perfect obedience of Christ. He has given us His Holy Spirit, He is our counselor, comforter; He teaches us and leads into all truth. The Holy Spirit is how we know, our hearts are assured. Ephesians 4:30 NASB1995 [30] Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. https://bible.com/bible/100/eph.4.30.NASB1995 Acts 5:32 NASB1995 [32] And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him.” https://bible.com/bible/100/act.5.32.NASB1995 Hebrews 5:7-9 NASB1995 [7] In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety. Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. [9] And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation, https://bible.com/bible/100/heb.5.7-9.NASB1995 1 John 3:18-24 NASB1995 [18] Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. [19] We will know by this that we are of the truth, and will assure our heart before Him [20] in whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things. [21] Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; [22] and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight. [23] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. [24] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. https://bible.com/bible/100/1jn.3.18-24.NASB1995 God bless you. Originally Posted By Bishop3: Originally Posted By RunsonCLP: Originally Posted By Bishop3: Does God give His Holy Spirit only to those who obey Him? @Bishop3 How can I tell if I am obeying what Jesus said to do. If you read the threads you, and others, post one would believe you need a doctorate in theology and ME history to understand the Bible. I do read quite a few of your posts trying to figure them out. And it is in those that I see even the most learned here do not agree with many biblical ideas. So, how is an ignorant layman such as my self supposed to find salvation if those talking about salvation cannot always agree on the path. In following up with your question about obedience. We are saved because of the perfect obedience of Christ. He has given us His Holy Spirit, He is our counselor, comforter; He teaches us and leads into all truth. The Holy Spirit is how we know, our hearts are assured. Ephesians 4:30 NASB1995 [30] Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. https://bible.com/bible/100/eph.4.30.NASB1995 Acts 5:32 NASB1995 [32] And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him.” https://bible.com/bible/100/act.5.32.NASB1995 Hebrews 5:7-9 NASB1995 [7] In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety. Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. [9] And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation, https://bible.com/bible/100/heb.5.7-9.NASB1995 1 John 3:18-24 NASB1995 [18] Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. [19] We will know by this that we are of the truth, and will assure our heart before Him [20] in whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things. [21] Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; [22] and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight. [23] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. [24] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. https://bible.com/bible/100/1jn.3.18-24.NASB1995 God bless you. Obey, obey, obey. And yet you persistently dismiss the very idea of obedience and the sacramental life and make constant insinuations about those who advocate for it. 1 Corinthians 11: 23-28 For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took a loaf of bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me." In the same way he took the cup also, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me." For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the LORD's death until he comes. Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be answerable for the body and blood of the Lord. Examine yourselves, and only then eat of the bread and drink of the cup. |
History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which Trump is always right.
Modern life is one steep, perpetual tax on the mathematically impaired
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Originally Posted By JAD762: Ok my dude, it’s been a long day and my social battery is pretty drained so I’m just going to ask… Are playing along with my sarcasm or not picking up my sarcasm here? Originally Posted By JAD762: Originally Posted By monadh: Originally Posted By JAD762: Originally Posted By SCR556: Originally Posted By Bishop3: The Book of Revelation itself is addressed to His bondservants and the seven churches in Asia. It is a message for the churches. Are you part of any of the churches in Asia? Galations is written to us so this applies to us. Actually the book of Galatians is written specifically to churches in Galatia. Are you a part of a church in Galatia? I mean, if you’re going to advocate for silly interpretations of scripture at least be consistent with the silliness. It is soooo freeing to know that if we are not one of the people that books in the Bible were originally addressed to, then those uber-restrictive verses don't apply to us. I wish I had known that when I was a Protestant. A few weeks before becoming Catholic, the deacon teaching RCIA asked us to go to confession to see what it was like. When I walked into what serves as a confessional at that church, I told the priest why I was there. He told me I wasn't Catholic and I should not be there to confess sins until I was Catholic. I replied, "So, what you're telling me is that between now and the time I become Catholic, I've got carte blanche to do whatever I want?" The look on his face told me that he had never met someone so skilled in the art of finding exceptions to the rule. I have been surpassed in this thread. Ok my dude, it’s been a long day and my social battery is pretty drained so I’m just going to ask… Are playing along with my sarcasm or not picking up my sarcasm here? Yep, same Soul Train congo line, I'm just not at the start. |
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Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam: Obey, obey, obey. And yet you persistently dismiss the very idea of obedience and the sacramental life and make constant insinuations about those who advocate for it. 1 Corinthians 11: 23-28 Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam: Originally Posted By Bishop3: Originally Posted By RunsonCLP: Originally Posted By Bishop3: Does God give His Holy Spirit only to those who obey Him? @Bishop3 How can I tell if I am obeying what Jesus said to do. If you read the threads you, and others, post one would believe you need a doctorate in theology and ME history to understand the Bible. I do read quite a few of your posts trying to figure them out. And it is in those that I see even the most learned here do not agree with many biblical ideas. So, how is an ignorant layman such as my self supposed to find salvation if those talking about salvation cannot always agree on the path. In following up with your question about obedience. We are saved because of the perfect obedience of Christ. He has given us His Holy Spirit, He is our counselor, comforter; He teaches us and leads into all truth. The Holy Spirit is how we know, our hearts are assured. Ephesians 4:30 NASB1995 [30] Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. https://bible.com/bible/100/eph.4.30.NASB1995 Acts 5:32 NASB1995 [32] And we are witnesses of these things; and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him.” https://bible.com/bible/100/act.5.32.NASB1995 Hebrews 5:7-9 NASB1995 [7] In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety. Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered. [9] And having been made perfect, He became to all those who obey Him the source of eternal salvation, https://bible.com/bible/100/heb.5.7-9.NASB1995 1 John 3:18-24 NASB1995 [18] Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue, but in deed and truth. [19] We will know by this that we are of the truth, and will assure our heart before Him [20] in whatever our heart condemns us; for God is greater than our heart and knows all things. [21] Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; [22] and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight. [23] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. [24] The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. https://bible.com/bible/100/1jn.3.18-24.NASB1995 God bless you. Obey, obey, obey. And yet you persistently dismiss the very idea of obedience and the sacramental life and make constant insinuations about those who advocate for it. 1 Corinthians 11: 23-28 For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took a loaf of bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me." In the same way he took the cup also, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me." For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the LORD's death until he comes. Whoever, therefore, eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be answerable for the body and blood of the Lord. Examine yourselves, and only then eat of the bread and drink of the cup. I recieve the Lord's Supper in/ with the 'body of Christ'. this I do this in remembrance of Him; proclaiming His death until his return. (see Luke 22:14-23 and 1 Corinthians 11:26) We are to love our brother; haven't you yet properly discerned the body of Christ? I personally have no reason to believe in a doctrine of 'transubstantiation'. I called on the name of the Lord and He rescued me. I believe in Him, the Holy Spirit is my witness. 1 Corinthians 11:29 NASB1995 [29] For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. https://bible.com/bible/100/1co.11.29.NASB1995 Now... 1 Corinthians 12:27 NASB1995 [27] Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it. https://bible.com/bible/100/1co.12.27.NASB1995 2 Corinthians 13:5-6 NASB1995 [5] Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test? [6] But I trust that you will realize that we ourselves do not fail the test. https://bible.com/bible/100/2co.13.5-6.NASB1995 ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle You sir might tear at your clothing throw the dirt up in the air in a raging fit, could call me ugly names, and accuse me, even spit on me, and slap me until I bleed. You might even kill me. *Jesus Christ saved me. He saved a sinner! He has shown me mercy. Jesus, He is alive. I believe the presence of Christ is in me. He has not abandoned me. He is Faithful and True. 2 Timothy 2:11-13 NASB1995 [11] It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him; [12] If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us; [13] If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself. https://bible.com/bible/100/2ti.2.11-13.NASB1995 'Christ in you, the hope of glory' Jesus Christ is a real man. Son of Man Son of God. Acts 2:21 NASB1995 [21] AND IT SHALL BE THAT EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.’ https://bible.com/bible/100/act.2.21.NASB1995 ~ Peter the Lord's Apostle (quoting the prophet Joel) Romans 10:13 NASB1995 [13] for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.” https://bible.com/bible/100/rom.10.13.NASB1995 ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle Jesus, He is the Judge of the living and of the dead. Thank you Lord for giving us your body. I remember. Love is the greatest. God bless you. ETA for the posterity: Luke 22:14-23 NASB1995 [14] When the hour had come, He reclined at the table, and the apostles with Him. [15] And He said to them, “I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer; [16] for I say to you, I shall never again eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.” [17] And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He said, “Take this and share it among yourselves; [18] for I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine from now on until the kingdom of God comes.” [19] And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” [20] And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood. [21] But behold, the hand of the one betraying Me is with Mine on the table. [22] For indeed, the Son of Man is going as it has been determined; but woe to that man by whom He is betrayed!” [23] And they began to discuss among themselves which one of them it might be who was going to do this thing. https://bible.com/bible/100/luk.22.14-23.NASB1995 ~ the Lord Jesus Christ 1 Corinthians 11:26 NASB1995 [26] For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes. https://bible.com/bible/100/1co.11.26.NASB1995 ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle |
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Originally Posted By Bishop3: I recieve the Lord's Supper in/ with the 'body of Christ'. this I do this in remembrance of Him; proclaiming His death until his return. (see Luke 22:14-23 and 1 Corinthians 11:26) We are to love our brother; haven't you yet properly discerned the body of Christ? I personally have no reason to believe in a doctrine of 'transubstantiation'. I called on the name of the Lord and He rescued me. I believe in Him, the Holy Spirit is my witness. 1 Corinthians 11:29 NASB1995 [29] For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly. https://bible.com/bible/100/1co.11.29.NASB1995 Now... 1 Corinthians 12:27 NASB1995 [27] Now you are Christ’s body, and individually members of it. https://bible.com/bible/100/1co.12.27.NASB1995 2 Corinthians 13:5-6 NASB1995 [5] Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test? [6] But I trust that you will realize that we ourselves do not fail the test. https://bible.com/bible/100/2co.13.5-6.NASB1995 ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle You sir might tear at your clothing throw the dirt up in the air in a raging fit, could call me ugly names, and accuse me, even spit on me, and slap me until I bleed. You might even kill me. *Jesus Christ saved me. He saved a sinner! He has shown me mercy. Jesus, He is alive. I believe the presence of Christ is in me. He has not abandoned me. He is Faithful and True. 2 Timothy 2:11-13 NASB1995 [11] It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him; [12] If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us; [13] If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself. https://bible.com/bible/100/2ti.2.11-13.NASB1995 'Christ in you, the hope of glory' Jesus Christ is a real man. Son of Man Son of God. Acts 2:21 NASB1995 [21] AND IT SHALL BE THAT EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.’ https://bible.com/bible/100/act.2.21.NASB1995 ~ Peter the Lord's Apostle (quoting the prophet Joel) Romans 10:13 NASB1995 [13] for “WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.” https://bible.com/bible/100/rom.10.13.NASB1995 ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle Jesus, He is the Judge of the living and of the dead. Thank you Lord for giving us your body. I remember. Love is the greatest. God bless you. ETA for the posterity: Luke 22:14-23 NASB1995 [14] When the hour had come, He reclined at the table, and the apostles with Him. [15] And He said to them, “I have earnestly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer; [16] for I say to you, I shall never again eat it until it is fulfilled in the kingdom of God.” [17] And when He had taken a cup and given thanks, He said, “Take this and share it among yourselves; [18] for I say to you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine from now on until the kingdom of God comes.” [19] And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” [20] And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood. [21] But behold, the hand of the one betraying Me is with Mine on the table. [22] For indeed, the Son of Man is going as it has been determined; but woe to that man by whom He is betrayed!” [23] And they began to discuss among themselves which one of them it might be who was going to do this thing. https://bible.com/bible/100/luk.22.14-23.NASB1995 ~ the Lord Jesus Christ 1 Corinthians 11:26 NASB1995 [26] For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes. https://bible.com/bible/100/1co.11.26.NASB1995 ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle Amen to Truth! And this is of no private interpretation. For the same HOLY SPIRIT who raised JESUS from the dead has quickened your spirit, made you alive from the dead. Sealed you, filled you. Taught you and led you into all the "same" Truth. And will also raise you. Glory to GOD! |
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Originally Posted By Raidersgone: Amen to Truth! And this is of no private interpretation. For the same HOLY SPIRIT who raised JESUS from the dead has quickened your spirit, made you alive from the dead. Sealed you, filled you. Taught you and led you into all the "same" Truth. And will also raise you. Glory to GOD! Psalms 34:8 NASB1995 O taste and see that the LORD is good; How blessed is the man who takes refuge in Him!https://bible.com/bible/100/psa.34.8.NASB1995 Yes sir, Amen. Jesus is Lord.  Come To The River - Housefires II (Lyric Video) Come receive! |
USMC 85-'93 Amphibious YAT-YAS
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Originally Posted By monadh: Yep, same Soul Train congo line, I'm just not at the start. Originally Posted By monadh: Originally Posted By JAD762: Originally Posted By monadh: Originally Posted By JAD762: Originally Posted By SCR556: Originally Posted By Bishop3: The Book of Revelation itself is addressed to His bondservants and the seven churches in Asia. It is a message for the churches. Are you part of any of the churches in Asia? Galations is written to us so this applies to us. Actually the book of Galatians is written specifically to churches in Galatia. Are you a part of a church in Galatia? I mean, if you’re going to advocate for silly interpretations of scripture at least be consistent with the silliness. It is soooo freeing to know that if we are not one of the people that books in the Bible were originally addressed to, then those uber-restrictive verses don't apply to us. I wish I had known that when I was a Protestant. A few weeks before becoming Catholic, the deacon teaching RCIA asked us to go to confession to see what it was like. When I walked into what serves as a confessional at that church, I told the priest why I was there. He told me I wasn't Catholic and I should not be there to confess sins until I was Catholic. I replied, "So, what you're telling me is that between now and the time I become Catholic, I've got carte blanche to do whatever I want?" The look on his face told me that he had never met someone so skilled in the art of finding exceptions to the rule. I have been surpassed in this thread. Ok my dude, it’s been a long day and my social battery is pretty drained so I’m just going to ask… Are playing along with my sarcasm or not picking up my sarcasm here? Yep, same Soul Train congo line, I'm just not at the start. My man. |
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Originally Posted By JAD762: Actually the book of Galatians is written specifically to churches in Galatia. Are you a part of a church in Galatia? I mean, if you’re going to advocate for silly interpretations of scripture at least be consistent with the silliness. It is only silly if you do not know why the books of the Bible are arranged the way they are: Galatians is the corresponding correction Epistle of the doctrinal Epistle of Romans and reproof Epistles of Corinthians (considered a single Epistle according to II Tim. 3:16): Romans sets the doctrine for the individual born again believer. Corinthians is the corresponding reproof epistle to Romans - providing reproof for practical error from Romans. Galatians is the correction epistle - providing correction for doctinal error in deviating from Romans. Ephesians is the doctrinal epistle for the body of Christ - functioning as a household. Philippians is the reproof epistle for Ephesians. Colossians is the correction epistle. Thessalonians stands alone as the doctrinal epistle for the mature believer and does not require a reproof or correction epistle. These are the Church Epistles for the born again believer. They apply to us in the here and now - beginning with the Day of Pentacost and ending at the gathering together when Jesus Christ returns for his saints. Revelation is at the very end of the Bible and describes the events of the end times and will aply to that day and that time. |
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absurd: adjective - Of a thing: against or without reason or propriety; incongruous, unreasonable, illogical. absurdity: noun - The state of being absurd. Sometimes practiced by some for self entertainment but never out of malice. See TROLL / CHAOS AGENT / SHITPOSTER |
Good morning, friends.  Thank you Lord! You are the all-time, undisputed, undefeated champion of Love! You are the greatest! God is Love. So be it. John 15:12-17 NASB1995 [12] “This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. [13] Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. [14] You are My friends if you do what I command you. [15] No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. [16] You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. [17] This I command you, that you love one another. https://bible.com/bible/100/jhn.15.12-17.NASB1995 ~ Jesus Christ, Son of Man Son of God 2 Corinthians 6:1-2 NASB1995 [1] And working together with Him, we also urge you not to receive the grace of God in vain— [2] for He says, “AT THE ACCEPTABLE TIME I LISTENED TO YOU, AND ON THE DAY OF SALVATION I HELPED YOU.” Behold, now is “THE ACCEPTABLE TIME,” Behold, now is “THE DAY OF SALVATION ”— https://bible.com/bible/100/2co.6.1-2.NASB1995 ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle Today is a good day to give the devil a bad day! *also today (9/11) is a memorial day for all those who died in the terrorist attack; and for those who selflessly ran into the towers (they are champions of love) Love God, love people, shine ...shine His Light (Jesus is the Light of the world) Be blessed in the name of the Lord! Maranatha |
USMC 85-'93 Amphibious YAT-YAS
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Originally Posted By SCR556: It is only silly if you do not know why the books of the Bible are arranged the way they are: Galatians is the corresponding correction Epistle of the doctrinal Epistle of Romans and reproof Epistles of Corinthians (considered a single Epistle according to II Tim. 3:16): Romans sets the doctrine for the individual born again believer. Corinthians is the corresponding reproof epistle to Romans - providing reproof for practical error from Romans. Galatians is the correction epistle - providing correction for doctinal error in deviating from Romans. Ephesians is the doctrinal epistle for the body of Christ - functioning as a household. Philippians is the reproof epistle for Ephesians. Colossians is the correction epistle. Thessalonians stands alone as the doctrinal epistle for the mature believer and does not require a reproof or correction epistle. These are the Church Epistles for the born again believer. They apply to us in the here and now - beginning with the Day of Pentacost and ending at the gathering together when Jesus Christ returns for his saints. Revelation is at the very end of the Bible and describes the events of the end times and will aply to that day and that time. Originally Posted By SCR556: Originally Posted By JAD762: Actually the book of Galatians is written specifically to churches in Galatia. Are you a part of a church in Galatia? I mean, if you’re going to advocate for silly interpretations of scripture at least be consistent with the silliness. It is only silly if you do not know why the books of the Bible are arranged the way they are: Galatians is the corresponding correction Epistle of the doctrinal Epistle of Romans and reproof Epistles of Corinthians (considered a single Epistle according to II Tim. 3:16): Romans sets the doctrine for the individual born again believer. Corinthians is the corresponding reproof epistle to Romans - providing reproof for practical error from Romans. Galatians is the correction epistle - providing correction for doctinal error in deviating from Romans. Ephesians is the doctrinal epistle for the body of Christ - functioning as a household. Philippians is the reproof epistle for Ephesians. Colossians is the correction epistle. Thessalonians stands alone as the doctrinal epistle for the mature believer and does not require a reproof or correction epistle. These are the Church Epistles for the born again believer. They apply to us in the here and now - beginning with the Day of Pentacost and ending at the gathering together when Jesus Christ returns for his saints. Revelation is at the very end of the Bible and describes the events of the end times and will aply to that day and that time. Ok. So between this silliness and your silliness with Revelation, I’ve got to ask - are you an acolyte of that idiot Victor Paul Wierwille from The Way International or one of its affiliates or have you just read too much Bullinger? Because one is just a silly dispensationalist and the other is a legitimate departure from the faith. And for the record, the New Testament is loosely organized by recipient and length. You really don’t have to hyper spiritualize everything. |
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Originally Posted By JAD762: Ok. So between this silliness and your silliness with Revelation, I’ve got to ask - are you an acolyte of that idiot Victor Paul Wierwille from The Way International or one of its affiliates or have you just read too much Bullinger? Because one is just a silly dispensationalist and the other is a legitimate departure from the faith. Originally Posted By JAD762: Ok. So between this silliness and your silliness with Revelation, I’ve got to ask - are you an acolyte of that idiot Victor Paul Wierwille from The Way International or one of its affiliates or have you just read too much Bullinger? Because one is just a silly dispensationalist and the other is a legitimate departure from the faith. Departure from what faith? And for the record, the New Testament is loosely organized by recipient and length. You really don’t have to hyper spiritualize everything. If we are the recipients of Revelation (as you claim), then why separate it so far from the Epistles? Then why isn't Jude the last book of the NT - given its brevity? The Bible is a spiritual book - doesn't it seem odd not to treat it as such? Based on your behavior, you are the one deviating from the faith as you ridicule others. |
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Originally Posted By SCR556: Departure from what faith? If we are the recipients of Revelation (as you claim), then why separate it so far from the Epistles? Then why isn't Jude the last book of the NT - given its brevity? The Bible is a spiritual book - doesn't it seem odd not to treat it as such? Based on your behavior, you are the one deviating from the faith as you ridicule others. Originally Posted By SCR556: Originally Posted By JAD762: Ok. So between this silliness and your silliness with Revelation, I’ve got to ask - are you an acolyte of that idiot Victor Paul Wierwille from The Way International or one of its affiliates or have you just read too much Bullinger? Because one is just a silly dispensationalist and the other is a legitimate departure from the faith. Departure from what faith? And for the record, the New Testament is loosely organized by recipient and length. You really don’t have to hyper spiritualize everything. If we are the recipients of Revelation (as you claim), then why separate it so far from the Epistles? Then why isn't Jude the last book of the NT - given its brevity? The Bible is a spiritual book - doesn't it seem odd not to treat it as such? Based on your behavior, you are the one deviating from the faith as you ridicule others. lol. Thanks for letting me know that I hit the nail on the head without saying I hit the nail on the head. First. Revelation is separated from the general epistles because it’s an apocalypse. Like another poster mentioned, revelation is specifically addressed to the churches in Asia Minor. (1:4) But in chapters 2 & 3 were repeatedly told “He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” So while the letter is addressed to these churches, it isn’t limited to them. It’s for all that have ears to hear it. Then at the end of Revelation, this is reiterated. Jesus says I have sent my angel to testify to you these things in the churches. (22:16) Revelation is Christian scripture written to Christians for the edification and instruction of Christians. While it contains prophecy about Israel, it is not addressed to Israel in any way, shape, or form. If you disagree, I’d encourage you to quote a passage in revelation where Jesus or an angel or anyone tells John to send a message to the tribes of Israel. You can’t because it’s not there. The only way you can conclude that revelation is written to the tribes of Israel is to have a false preconceived framework that you have to shoehorn the book in to. Second, I’m glad that you brought up the book of Jude, it’s a perfect example of what I’m talking about. Jude doesn’t really fit into a larger category, but it’s short, so it’s put at the end of the general epistles. Then comes revelation because it’s a different genre (apocalyptic lit), and it serves as a natural conclusion to the NT. It’s like you’re picking up what I’m saying, even if it’s not entirely clicking with you yet. Third, point of order. I didn’t say the Bible isn’t a spiritual book, I said you don’t have to over spiritualize everything. If you’re going to argue with me at least have the integrity to argue with what I actually said, not some strawman you create. The Bible is clear and straightforward. There are no secret Bible codes, there is no hidden meaning behind the order of books. At best that’s the vain speculative nonsense Paul repeatedly tells us to avoid. At worst that’s a claim to a gnosticesque secret knowledge. Finally, if me poking fun of your hermeneutical hypocrisy or calling a false teacher an idiot gives you the vapors, you had better take a Xanax before reading what Elijah said to the prophets of Baal or what Paul said the circumcism party should do to themselves. I get it. People have itching ears and surround themselves with people who will affirm them. And then when they run into someone who doesn’t they get upset about it. But, at times like this I remember what Ed SR used to say - no one cares about the color of your skin here, just its thickness. If me telling you the truth makes you upset, maybe you should take a long look in the mirror to figure out why. |
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Originally Posted By JAD762: lol. Thanks for letting me know that I hit the nail on the head without saying I hit the nail on the head. Originally Posted By JAD762: lol. Thanks for letting me know that I hit the nail on the head without saying I hit the nail on the head. You disparaged two Christian men who put far more time into researching the Word than you or I. Not very Christian of you. First. Revelation is separated from the general epistles because it’s an apocalypse. Like another poster mentioned, revelation is specifically addressed to the churches in Asia Minor. (1:4) But in chapters 2 & 3 were repeatedly told “He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.” So while the letter is addressed to these churches, it isn’t limited to them. It’s for all that have ears to hear it. Then at the end of Revelation, this is reiterated. Jesus says I have sent my angel to testify to you these things in the churches. (22:16) Do you mean apocalypse in the true definition or "end of the world" definition? If the later, then you just proved my point that the book is not intended for us to interpret for this day and time. Revelation is Christian scripture written to Christians for the edification and instruction of Christians. While it contains prophecy about Israel, it is not addressed to Israel in any way, shape, or form. If you disagree, I’d encourage you to quote a passage in revelation where Jesus or an angel or anyone tells John to send a message to the tribes of Israel. You can’t because it’s not there. The only way you can conclude that revelation is written to the tribes of Israel is to have a false preconceived framework that you have to shoehorn the book in to. Prophesy of the scripture often has an immediate meaning and a more metaphoric one for the future. For example, there was a king of Tyrus, but in Ezekiel, the king of Tyrus is describing the devil. In other places there is scripture which made no sense at one time, but makes perfect sense once certain events take place. For example: in two places in Isaiah, there are references to stammering lips and other tongues - which made no sense to anyone until the Day of Pentacost when the Apostles first spoke in tongues. Revelation is just like that. A lot of it won't make any sense until the events of that timeframe take place. Second, I’m glad that you brought up the book of Jude, it’s a perfect example of what I’m talking about. Jude doesn’t really fit into a larger category, but it’s short, so it’s put at the end of the general epistles. Then comes revelation because it’s a different genre (apocalyptic lit), and it serves as a natural conclusion to the NT. It’s like you’re picking up what I’m saying, even if it’s not entirely clicking with you yet. I do get what you are saying - what I don't understand is that you are making my point and missing it at the same time. Third, point of order. I didn’t say the Bible isn’t a spiritual book, I said you don’t have to over spiritualize everything. If you’re going to argue with me at least have the integrity to argue with what I actually said, not some strawman you create. The Bible is clear and straightforward. There are no secret Bible codes, there is no hidden meaning behind the order of books. At best that’s the vain speculative nonsense Paul repeatedly tells us to avoid. At worst that’s a claim to a gnosticesque secret knowledge. The Bible is a very simple book to read - if you read it without reading into it. I never claimed there were any secret codes - only pointing out the reason why the Church Epistles are in the order that they are. Finally, if me poking fun of your hermeneutical hypocrisy or calling a false teacher an idiot gives you the vapors, you had better take a Xanax before reading what Elijah said to the prophets of Baal or what Paul said the circumcism party should do to themselves. I get it. People have itching ears and surround themselves with people who will affirm them. And then when they run into someone who doesn’t they get upset about it. Actually, the works of Bullinger are quite sound for the most part. I have found little that I question about his research. Wierwille also has done some extensive and impressive research as well. What makes you think they are false teachers and idiots? Can you be specific? It doesn't give me vapors, I am reproving you your un-Christian-like behavior...which you choose to ignore (Prov. 12:1). But, at times like this I remember what Ed SR used to say - no one cares about the color of your skin here, just its thickness. If me telling you the truth makes you upset, maybe you should take a long look in the mirror to figure out why. You haven't told much truth here, only ridiculed. |
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Originally Posted By SCR556: You disparaged two Christian men who put far more time into researching the Word than you or I. Not very Christian of you. Do you mean apocalypse in the true definition or "end of the world" definition? If the later, then you just proved my point that the book is not intended for us to interpret for this day and time. Prophesy of the scripture often has an immediate meaning and a more metaphoric one for the future. For example, there was a king of Tyrus, but in Ezekiel, the king of Tyrus is describing the devil. In other places there is scripture which made no sense at one time, but makes perfect sense once certain events take place. For example: in two places in Isaiah, there are references to stammering lips and other tongues - which made no sense to anyone until the Day of Pentacost when the Apostles first spoke in tongues. Revelation is just like that. A lot of it won't make any sense until the events of that timeframe take place. I do get what you are saying - what I don't understand is that you are making my point and missing it at the same time. The Bible is a very simple book to read - if you read it without reading into it. I never claimed there were any secret codes - only pointing out the reason why the Church Epistles are in the order that they are. Actually, the works of Bullinger are quite sound for the most part. I have found little that I question about his research. Wierwille also has done some extensive and impressive research as well. What makes you think they are false teachers and idiots? Can you be specific? It doesn't give me vapors, I am reproving you your un-Christian-like behavior...which you choose to ignore (Prov. 12:1). You haven't told much truth here, only ridiculed. Yes, yes, I know the drill, everyone who calls balls and strikes fair is a big meany to people trying to cheat. Everyone says they wish Christians would speak straight and tell the truth no matter what, until they do. As for your fanboying, Bullinger was probably an honest guy who took dispensationalism to its craziest, natural ending while staying within the bounds of Christianity (though his late in life teachings about baptism and the lords supper sure puts him on the razor edge of that). Even other dispys say he was a nut. Wierwille, on the other hand, went farther and denied the divinity of Christ. So no, he was not a Christian, though he was very much a false teacher. So, good job on picking people to be impressed by. And listen, all this nonsense can be put to rest if you do one simple thing - provide biblical proof that the book of revelation was written to the tribes of Israel as you claimed. I backed up my claims with Scripture, why wont you? Don't worry, we already know the answer, its because you're wrong and because there is no Scriptural evidence that it was written to the 12 tribes. So now you find yourself at a great time of self discovery. The Bible contradicts what you believe, so will you trust the Bible or will you keep trusting a false teacher? Now is the time you get to find out if you're really a Biblicist or just cosplaying one. |
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Originally Posted By JAD762: Ok. So between this silliness and your silliness with Revelation, I’ve got to ask - are you an acolyte of that idiot Victor Paul Wierwille from The Way International or one of its affiliates or have you just read too much Bullinger? Because one is just a silly dispensationalist and the other is a legitimate departure from the faith. And for the record, the New Testament is loosely organized by recipient and length. You really don’t have to hyper spiritualize everything. Originally Posted By JAD762: Originally Posted By SCR556: Originally Posted By JAD762: Actually the book of Galatians is written specifically to churches in Galatia. Are you a part of a church in Galatia? I mean, if you’re going to advocate for silly interpretations of scripture at least be consistent with the silliness. It is only silly if you do not know why the books of the Bible are arranged the way they are: Galatians is the corresponding correction Epistle of the doctrinal Epistle of Romans and reproof Epistles of Corinthians (considered a single Epistle according to II Tim. 3:16): Romans sets the doctrine for the individual born again believer. Corinthians is the corresponding reproof epistle to Romans - providing reproof for practical error from Romans. Galatians is the correction epistle - providing correction for doctinal error in deviating from Romans. Ephesians is the doctrinal epistle for the body of Christ - functioning as a household. Philippians is the reproof epistle for Ephesians. Colossians is the correction epistle. Thessalonians stands alone as the doctrinal epistle for the mature believer and does not require a reproof or correction epistle. These are the Church Epistles for the born again believer. They apply to us in the here and now - beginning with the Day of Pentacost and ending at the gathering together when Jesus Christ returns for his saints. Revelation is at the very end of the Bible and describes the events of the end times and will aply to that day and that time. Ok. So between this silliness and your silliness with Revelation, I’ve got to ask - are you an acolyte of that idiot Victor Paul Wierwille from The Way International or one of its affiliates or have you just read too much Bullinger? Because one is just a silly dispensationalist and the other is a legitimate departure from the faith. And for the record, the New Testament is loosely organized by recipient and length. You really don’t have to hyper spiritualize everything. Forgive my ignorance of Reformed theological history, but did Bullinger teach that stuff about the epistles and Revelation? I always saw that era's Reformed guys as still having a more covenantal understanding, maybe more like Presbyterians. Not familiar with this Victor Paul Wierwille, just googled him. Seems like quite the character. |
History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which Trump is always right.
Modern life is one steep, perpetual tax on the mathematically impaired
Modern life is one steep, perpetual tax on the mathematically impaired
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Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam: Forgive my ignorance of Reformed theological history, but did Bullinger teach that stuff about the epistles and Revelation? I always saw that era's Reformed guys as still having a more covenantal understanding, maybe more like Presbyterians. Not familiar with this Victor Paul Wierwille, just googled him. Seems like quite the character. So, EW Bullinger was an anglican priest who was a hyperdispensationalist, so much so that a lot of people push his beliefs into its own category (Bullingerism). So even though he was in the reformedism stream I don't think its really fair to call him reformed in the traditional sense, though one of his ancestors was a Swiss Reformer. But yeah, he was fond of this stuff, though Wierwille took it farther. If you really want to pull at that thread check out his How to Enjoy the Bible to read about his hermeneutical framework. |
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Originally Posted By JAD762: So, EW Bullinger was an anglican priest who was a hyperdispensationalist, so much so that a lot of people push his beliefs into its own category (Bullingerism). So even though he was in the reformedism stream I don't think its really fair to call him reformed in the traditional sense, though one of his ancestors was a Swiss Reformer. But yeah, he was fond of this stuff, though Wierwille took it farther. If you really want to pull at that thread check out his How to Enjoy the Bible to read about his hermeneutical framework. Originally Posted By JAD762: Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam: Forgive my ignorance of Reformed theological history, but did Bullinger teach that stuff about the epistles and Revelation? I always saw that era's Reformed guys as still having a more covenantal understanding, maybe more like Presbyterians. Not familiar with this Victor Paul Wierwille, just googled him. Seems like quite the character. So, EW Bullinger was an anglican priest who was a hyperdispensationalist, so much so that a lot of people push his beliefs into its own category (Bullingerism). So even though he was in the reformedism stream I don't think its really fair to call him reformed in the traditional sense, though one of his ancestors was a Swiss Reformer. But yeah, he was fond of this stuff, though Wierwille took it farther. If you really want to pull at that thread check out his How to Enjoy the Bible to read about his hermeneutical framework. Oh, I was thinking the Zwingli/Calvin-associated Bullinger.  Never heard of this other guy either. |
History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which Trump is always right.
Modern life is one steep, perpetual tax on the mathematically impaired
Modern life is one steep, perpetual tax on the mathematically impaired
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Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam: Oh, I was thinking the Zwingli/Calvin-associated Bullinger. Never heard of this other guy either. Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam: Originally Posted By JAD762: Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam: Forgive my ignorance of Reformed theological history, but did Bullinger teach that stuff about the epistles and Revelation? I always saw that era's Reformed guys as still having a more covenantal understanding, maybe more like Presbyterians. Not familiar with this Victor Paul Wierwille, just googled him. Seems like quite the character. So, EW Bullinger was an anglican priest who was a hyperdispensationalist, so much so that a lot of people push his beliefs into its own category (Bullingerism). So even though he was in the reformedism stream I don't think its really fair to call him reformed in the traditional sense, though one of his ancestors was a Swiss Reformer. But yeah, he was fond of this stuff, though Wierwille took it farther. If you really want to pull at that thread check out his How to Enjoy the Bible to read about his hermeneutical framework. Oh, I was thinking the Zwingli/Calvin-associated Bullinger. Never heard of this other guy either. I’m with you. I believe you’re thinking of the ancestor of the guy I’m talking about. He did not have these views on revelation or the epistles. |
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Originally Posted By JAD762: Yes, yes, I know the drill, everyone who calls balls and strikes fair is a big meany to people trying to cheat. Originally Posted By JAD762: Yes, yes, I know the drill, everyone who calls balls and strikes fair is a big meany to people trying to cheat. But you aren't calling balls and strikes - you are just name calling. As for your fanboying, Bullinger was probably an honest guy who took dispensationalism to its craziest, natural ending while staying within the bounds of Christianity (though his late in life teachings about baptism and the lords supper sure puts him on the razor edge of that). Even other dispys say he was a nut. You just have to keep up with the insults, don't you? Dispensations - or more accurately, administrations are essential to understanding the Bible. Otherwise, it makes no sense. Wierwille, on the other hand, went farther and denied the divinity of Christ. So no, he was not a Christian, though he was very much a false teacher. So, good job on picking people to be impressed by. So if you do not believe Jesus Christ is God, then you cannot be a Christian? Well, then all the Apostles were screwed. BTW, Wierwille operated all nine manifestations of holy spirit - how is this possible if he were not a Christian? How do you reconcile that belief with perhaps the most famous verse of the Bible: John 3:16? What did John mean when he called Jesus Christ "the lamb of God"? Did you know that Wierwille was a firm believer in the divinity of Christ and set out to write a book proving by scripture that it was true? By the time he finished his research, the book was retitled Jesus Christ is not God. You might want to just read the intro to this book before you start hurling more insults. While there are a few dozen verses in the Bible that could be used to prove the divinity of Christ, there are more than 900 verses that prove he is actually God's only begotten son. I'm not going to tell you what to believe, but that you should research it on your own to make that determination. If you are right - great. No harm, no foul. But if you are wrong, then you demean both God and Christ. There would be no possibility of God failing to redeem man, but a man could fail...but didn't fail. So you would be demeaning Jesus Christ's accomplishments as a man. You would also be demeaning God because it is far easier to sacrifice yourself than to sacrifice your own child. And listen, all this nonsense can be put to rest if you do one simple thing - provide biblical proof that the book of revelation was written to the tribes of Israel as you claimed. I backed up my claims with Scripture, why wont you? Revelation is written about the end times and the "apocalypse". What you provided as scripure references that it applies to us only makes sense if you don't believe in dispensations/administrations. If that is so, then the whole book would be profitable for us today instead of a few verses. What role do we play in the "end times" if you don't believe in dispensations/administrations? Rev. 1:3 reads: Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. What time is at hand? Verse 7: Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. This refers to the return of Christ. Has he returned? Not yet. Like the example I gave above about speaking in tongues in Isaiah - it didn't make any sense until the Day of Pentacost and Revelation won't make any sense until that time comes. When it does, we will be gathered together as described at the end of the fourth chapter of I Thes. Who will remain after that? Not any Christians. The Kingdom of Heaven was basically "paused" when Jesus was crusified. That dispensation (which you seem to not believe in) will resume after the gathering together. It will be those left behind who will have the Book of Revelation as their guide. It is not described in the Bible as to how, but in some way, the Judean bloodline will somehow re-manifest and the 12 tribes will have one more chance to accept the Christ they rejected the first time around. So now you find yourself at a great time of self discovery. The Bible contradicts what you believe, so will you trust the Bible or will you keep trusting a false teacher? Now is the time you get to find out if you're really a Biblicist or just cosplaying one. There you go again with the insults. |
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Originally Posted By SCR556: But you aren't calling balls and strikes - you are just name calling. You just have to keep up with the insults, don't you? Dispensations - or more accurately, administrations are essential to understanding the Bible. Otherwise, it makes no sense. So if you do not believe Jesus Christ is God, then you cannot be a Christian? Well, then all the Apostles were screwed. BTW, Wierwille operated all nine manifestations of holy spirit - how is this possible if he were not a Christian? How do you reconcile that belief with perhaps the most famous verse of the Bible: John 3:16? What did John mean when he called Jesus Christ "the lamb of God"? Did you know that Wierwille was a firm believer in the divinity of Christ and set out to write a book proving by scripture that it was true? By the time he finished his research, the book was retitled Jesus Christ is not God. You might want to just read the intro to this book before you start hurling more insults. While there are a few dozen verses in the Bible that could be used to prove the divinity of Christ, there are more than 900 verses that prove he is actually God's only begotten son. I'm not going to tell you what to believe, but that you should research it on your own to make that determination. If you are right - great. No harm, no foul. But if you are wrong, then you demean both God and Christ. There would be no possibility of God failing to redeem man, but a man could fail...but didn't fail. So you would be demeaning Jesus Christ's accomplishments as a man. You would also be demeaning God because it is far easier to sacrifice yourself than to sacrifice your own child. Revelation is written about the end times and the "apocalypse". What you provided as scripure references that it applies to us only makes sense if you don't believe in dispensations/administrations. If that is so, then the whole book would be profitable for us today instead of a few verses. What role do we play in the "end times" if you don't believe in dispensations/administrations? Rev. 1:3 reads: Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. What time is at hand? Verse 7: Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. This refers to the return of Christ. Has he returned? Not yet. Like the example I gave above about speaking in tongues in Isaiah - it didn't make any sense until the Day of Pentacost and Revelation won't make any sense until that time comes. When it does, we will be gathered together as described at the end of the fourth chapter of I Thes. Who will remain after that? Not any Christians. The Kingdom of Heaven was basically "paused" when Jesus was crusified. That dispensation (which you seem to not believe in) will resume after the gathering together. It will be those left behind who will have the Book of Revelation as their guide. It is not described in the Bible as to how, but in some way, the Judean bloodline will somehow re-manifest and the 12 tribes will have one more chance to accept the Christ they rejected the first time around. There you go again with the insults. Originally Posted By SCR556: But you aren't calling balls and strikes - you are just name calling. You just have to keep up with the insults, don't you? Dispensations - or more accurately, administrations are essential to understanding the Bible. Otherwise, it makes no sense. So if you do not believe Jesus Christ is God, then you cannot be a Christian? Well, then all the Apostles were screwed. BTW, Wierwille operated all nine manifestations of holy spirit - how is this possible if he were not a Christian? How do you reconcile that belief with perhaps the most famous verse of the Bible: John 3:16? What did John mean when he called Jesus Christ "the lamb of God"? Did you know that Wierwille was a firm believer in the divinity of Christ and set out to write a book proving by scripture that it was true? By the time he finished his research, the book was retitled Jesus Christ is not God. You might want to just read the intro to this book before you start hurling more insults. While there are a few dozen verses in the Bible that could be used to prove the divinity of Christ, there are more than 900 verses that prove he is actually God's only begotten son. I'm not going to tell you what to believe, but that you should research it on your own to make that determination. If you are right - great. No harm, no foul. But if you are wrong, then you demean both God and Christ. There would be no possibility of God failing to redeem man, but a man could fail...but didn't fail. So you would be demeaning Jesus Christ's accomplishments as a man. You would also be demeaning God because it is far easier to sacrifice yourself than to sacrifice your own child. Revelation is written about the end times and the "apocalypse". What you provided as scripure references that it applies to us only makes sense if you don't believe in dispensations/administrations. If that is so, then the whole book would be profitable for us today instead of a few verses. What role do we play in the "end times" if you don't believe in dispensations/administrations? Rev. 1:3 reads: Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand. What time is at hand? Verse 7: Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. This refers to the return of Christ. Has he returned? Not yet. Like the example I gave above about speaking in tongues in Isaiah - it didn't make any sense until the Day of Pentacost and Revelation won't make any sense until that time comes. When it does, we will be gathered together as described at the end of the fourth chapter of I Thes. Who will remain after that? Not any Christians. The Kingdom of Heaven was basically "paused" when Jesus was crusified. That dispensation (which you seem to not believe in) will resume after the gathering together. It will be those left behind who will have the Book of Revelation as their guide. It is not described in the Bible as to how, but in some way, the Judean bloodline will somehow re-manifest and the 12 tribes will have one more chance to accept the Christ they rejected the first time around. There you go again with the insults. Cosplay it is then. Originally Posted By SCR556: So if you do not believe Jesus Christ is God, then you cannot be a Christian? Yes. Absolutely. Denying the divinity of Christ is the textbook definition of denying Christ. Period. I don't know what to say at this point dude. You've managed to discredit everything you believe so much better than I ever could. I guess all that's left is to say I really hope you come to a point that you repent, trust in Jesus, and join a Bible believing fellowship. Mark this down as one of the times I called it and really wish I wasn't right. |
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Originally Posted By JAD762: Cosplay it is then. Originally Posted By JAD762: Cosplay it is then. Keep those insults going. Yes. Absolutely. Denying the divinity of Christ is the textbook definition of denying Christ. Period. I Cor. 12:3 tells me otherwise. So should I believe what the Word says or what you claim? So you deny Jesus is the only begotten son of God? Because he is either God or the son of God - he can't be both. Why did God announce He was well pleased with His son when John baptized him? Why did John call Jesus "the lamb of God"? Why was Jesus referred to as "the last Adam" in Corinthians? Why was Jesus doing the will of his Father instead of his own will if he were God? Did he have a split personality? If Jesus was God all this time, then why did it take the Council of Nicaea to make it doctrine about 300 years after the Apostles died? I don't know what to say at this point dude. You've managed to discredit everything you believe so much better than I ever could. How so? If Revelation is written to us, please share an example of how it applies in your life? I guess all that's left is to say I really hope you come to a point that you repent, trust in Jesus, and join a Bible believing fellowship. Mark this down as one of the times I called it and really wish I wasn't right. Does your ego know no bounds? I have been born again for about 30 years now - thank you very much. I speak in tongues , I have received revelation from God, I have been witness to and been a part of miraculous healings, I participate in fellowship - including teaching and I have never treated a Christian as poorly as you have. |
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Originally Posted By SCR556: Keep those insults going. I Cor. 12:3 tells me otherwise. So should I believe what the Word says or what you claim? So you deny Jesus is the only begotten son of God? Because he is either God or the son of God - he can't be both. Why did God announce He was well pleased with His son when John baptized him? Why did John call Jesus "the lamb of God"? Why was Jesus referred to as "the last Adam" in Corinthians? Why was Jesus doing the will of his Father instead of his own will if he were God? Did he have a split personality? If Jesus was God all this time, then why did it take the Council of Nicaea to make it doctrine about 300 years after the Apostles died? How so? If Revelation is written to us, please share an example of how it applies in your life? Does your ego know no bounds? I have been born again for about 30 years now - thank you very much. I speak in tongues , I have received revelation from God, I have been witness to and been a part of miraculous healings, I participate in fellowship - including teaching and I have never treated a Christian as poorly as you have. Originally Posted By SCR556: Originally Posted By JAD762: Cosplay it is then. Keep those insults going. Yes. Absolutely. Denying the divinity of Christ is the textbook definition of denying Christ. Period. I Cor. 12:3 tells me otherwise. So should I believe what the Word says or what you claim? So you deny Jesus is the only begotten son of God? Because he is either God or the son of God - he can't be both. Why did God announce He was well pleased with His son when John baptized him? Why did John call Jesus "the lamb of God"? Why was Jesus referred to as "the last Adam" in Corinthians? Why was Jesus doing the will of his Father instead of his own will if he were God? Did he have a split personality? If Jesus was God all this time, then why did it take the Council of Nicaea to make it doctrine about 300 years after the Apostles died? I don't know what to say at this point dude. You've managed to discredit everything you believe so much better than I ever could. How so? If Revelation is written to us, please share an example of how it applies in your life? I guess all that's left is to say I really hope you come to a point that you repent, trust in Jesus, and join a Bible believing fellowship. Mark this down as one of the times I called it and really wish I wasn't right. Does your ego know no bounds? I have been born again for about 30 years now - thank you very much. I speak in tongues , I have received revelation from God, I have been witness to and been a part of miraculous healings, I participate in fellowship - including teaching and I have never treated a Christian as poorly as you have. My dude. You’re the one calling God a liar. I don’t think my ego is one you should be worried about. |
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Originally Posted By SCR556: Unwilling/unable to answer any of my questions? I will answer all your questions as soon as you answer the one I asked. Provide Scriptural proof that revelation was written to the 12 tribes like you claimed. Its become crystal clear that you care not for scripture or truth, just having your devotion to a false teacher affirmed. ETA – OK, I’m going to bite because why not. When I said Denying the divinity of Christ is the textbook definition of denying Christ. You responded by saying, “I Cor. 12:3 tells me otherwise. “ Lets take a look at 1 Corinthians 12:3. Here’s the first three verses of the chapter just to give us some background on what’s going on. 1Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. So in this passage Paul is talking about spiritual discernment, particularly in terms of spiritual gifts. He makes a contrast between pagans influenced by idols which are demonic, and Christians influenced by the Holy Spirit. Paul tells us that you can differentiate between the two not by who speaks in tongues or whatever, but based on how they respond to Jesus. Those indwelt by the Holy Spirit will affirm that Jesus is Lord, because none speaking by the Holy Spirit can curse Jesus. Here’s the neat thing. That word “Lord” there is the Greek word “kyrios”, which in the New Testament is used to refer to God and in Greek translations of the Old Testament, is the word used for the personal name of God. Thus, according to 1 Corinthians 12:3, anyone who is indwelt by the Holy Spirit will affirm that Jesus is God. The converse of course being that anyone who cannot affirm that Jesus is God curses him and is not indwelt by the Holy Spirit, but are instead influenced by the demonic like the pagans. Ergo, we must conclude that Wierwille and his followers both lack the Holy Spirit and are possibly even demonically possessed because they do not affirm that Jesus is God. Im going to be honest, citing a passage of Scripture that says you can tell who’s a Christian based on their affirmation that Jesus is God when you’re trying to prove that he’s not is a really weird self own. |
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Originally Posted By SCR556: Keep those insults going. I Cor. 12:3 tells me otherwise. So should I believe what the Word says or what you claim? So you deny Jesus is the only begotten son of God? Because he is either God or the son of God - he can't be both. Why did God announce He was well pleased with His son when John baptized him? Why did John call Jesus "the lamb of God"? Why was Jesus referred to as "the last Adam" in Corinthians? Why was Jesus doing the will of his Father instead of his own will if he were God? Did he have a split personality? If Jesus was God all this time, then why did it take the Council of Nicaea to make it doctrine about 300 years after the Apostles died? How so? If Revelation is written to us, please share an example of how it applies in your life? Does your ego know no bounds? I have been born again for about 30 years now - thank you very much. I speak in tongues , I have received revelation from God, I have been witness to and been a part of miraculous healings, I participate in fellowship - including teaching and I have never treated a Christian as poorly as you have. Originally Posted By SCR556: Originally Posted By JAD762: Cosplay it is then. Keep those insults going. Yes. Absolutely. Denying the divinity of Christ is the textbook definition of denying Christ. Period. I Cor. 12:3 tells me otherwise. So should I believe what the Word says or what you claim? So you deny Jesus is the only begotten son of God? Because he is either God or the son of God - he can't be both. Why did God announce He was well pleased with His son when John baptized him? Why did John call Jesus "the lamb of God"? Why was Jesus referred to as "the last Adam" in Corinthians? Why was Jesus doing the will of his Father instead of his own will if he were God? Did he have a split personality? If Jesus was God all this time, then why did it take the Council of Nicaea to make it doctrine about 300 years after the Apostles died? I don't know what to say at this point dude. You've managed to discredit everything you believe so much better than I ever could. How so? If Revelation is written to us, please share an example of how it applies in your life? I guess all that's left is to say I really hope you come to a point that you repent, trust in Jesus, and join a Bible believing fellowship. Mark this down as one of the times I called it and really wish I wasn't right. Does your ego know no bounds? I have been born again for about 30 years now - thank you very much. I speak in tongues , I have received revelation from God, I have been witness to and been a part of miraculous healings, I participate in fellowship - including teaching and I have never treated a Christian as poorly as you have. At the risk of stating the obvious... you have zero idea of the most fundamental concepts of Christian trinitarianism. Yes. Jesus is the son of God. yes, Jesus is God. yes, the Holy Spirit is the spirit of God. Yes, the Holy Spirit is God.  As the creed professes, I believe in one God. The Father almighty maker of heaven and earth. I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten son of God. Born of the Father before all ages. God from God. Light from Light. True God from True God. Begotten, not made. Consubstantial with the Father. Through him all things were made. At least demonstrate half a clue about what you are arguing against if you are going to claim to have discovered proof that everyone has had this wrong since the earliest years of the Church. I'm embarrassed for you. |
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I knew someone who joined "The Way" back in the 1970s, and I was surprised by what he had come to believe. The belief that Jesus is not fully God and fully man undermines everything else they may say or do. Of course you have the opposite take where you have God the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit, but they are all another manifestation of Jesus. Jesus is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. One question that comes up: If Wierwille's followers practice "the gifts of the Spirit", and they deny that Jesus is God, what exactly are they practicing? This question may not mean much to most here, but coming from a charismatic background with traditional Trinitarian beliefs, there are only two possible sources for any spiritual gift. |
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Originally Posted By monadh: I knew someone who joined "The Way" back in the 1970s, and I was surprised by what he had come to believe. The belief that Jesus is not fully God and fully man undermines everything else they may say or do. Of course you have the opposite take where you have God the Father, God the Son, and God the Spirit, but they are all another manifestation of Jesus. Jesus is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. One question that comes up: If Wierwille's followers practice "the gifts of the Spirit", and they deny that Jesus is God, what exactly are they practicing? This question may not mean much to most here, but coming from a charismatic background with traditional Trinitarian beliefs, there are only two possible sources for any spiritual gift. I agree with you on most points you have made here sir. I would like to point out that I think that there might be 3 sources for 'spiritual gifts' the first is God (He has given good gifts to men), the other two manifestations are the flesh and or satan (counterfeit gifts). This is a good reason every believer should have some level of exercising discernment (judgment). Test all things. We do not have to rely on every human teacher. Always the Holy Spirit and the Word will agree. We have the Word of God! The Holy Spirit is our Teacher. Psalms 143:10 NASB1995 [10] Teach me to do Your will, For You are my God; Let Your good Spirit lead me on level ground. https://bible.com/bible/100/psa.143.10.NASB1995 Something else; I was looking into (examining) the Scriptures last night, w/ Grudem's Systematic Theology and it was this the exact phrasing 'God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit'. Grudem uses this phrasing in his work. In the NASB1995 'God the Father' is written 15 times and in the ESV written 18 times (Bible Gateway key word searches). Slight differences between the two translations arise from wording variations in a few parallel passages (e.g., how certain greetings or references are rendered). However in the Bible there isn't the phrase 'God the Son' or 'God the Holy Spirit'. These phrases came later to uphold the doctrine of the Trinity. I may be nerdy when it comes to things like this, because, discernment is important to me. We have good gifts, we have the Holy Spirit and the Word of God. His Word is living and active. It is written... Satan could use the word and twist it to decieve. 'If you are the son of God...' (Luke 4). We must believe God; His Word without any doubt every Word of God is pure... I trust Him. The Holy Spirit is our witness. I do not want to stray far from the original post topic. I might could explain more before someone goes into a tirade that I'm blasphemous or should be burned at the stake for heresy. Jesus is Lord. Jesus, He is the Judge of the living and of the dead. He came to my rescue. Jesus Christ came to save! If I stand corrected please show me in the Scriptures. God bless you. Eta: I've been born again. God is my Father. I will pray to Him, in the name of Jesus, through His Holy Spirit. The Spirit intercedes for us! Mark 12:29-31 NASB1995 [29] Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD; [30] AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.’ [31] the second is this, ‘YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.” https://bible.com/bible/100/mrk.12.29-31.NASB1995 ~ Jesus, Son of Man Son of God 2 Corinthians 5:17-19 NASB1995 [17] Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. [18] Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, [19] namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. https://bible.com/bible/100/2co.5.17-19.NASB1995 ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle |
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Originally Posted By JAD762: When I said Denying the divinity of Christ is the textbook definition of denying Christ. You responded by saying, “I Cor. 12:3 tells me otherwise. “ Lets take a look at 1 Corinthians 12:3. Here’s the first three verses of the chapter just to give us some background on what’s going on. 1Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. So in this passage Paul is talking about spiritual discernment, particularly in terms of spiritual gifts. He makes a contrast between pagans influenced by idols which are demonic, and Christians influenced by the Holy Spirit. Paul tells us that you can differentiate between the two not by who speaks in tongues or whatever, but based on how they respond to Jesus. Those indwelt by the Holy Spirit will affirm that Jesus is Lord, because none speaking by the Holy Spirit can curse Jesus. If you keep reading I Cor. 12 (and not stopping with just the first three verses), the whole context of what Paul is talking about are the manifestations of holy spirit - which includes speaking in tongues. On the Day of Pentacost, what was the first thing the Apostles did when they became the first born again believers? Acts 2:4 - And they were all filled with the holy ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Another example of speaking by the spirit: I Cor. 14:2 - For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. Speaking in tongues is a sign that you are born again: I Cor. 14:22a - Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: Here’s the neat thing. That word “Lord” there is the Greek word “kyrios”, which in the New Testament is used to refer to God and in Greek translations of the Old Testament, is the word used for the personal name of God. "Kyrios" means "Lord" or "Master". In the Septuigent, the tranlaters substituted kyrios in place of God's name "Yahweh". Not sure why they did it, but they did. Thus, according to 1 Corinthians 12:3, anyone who is indwelt by the Holy Spirit will affirm that Jesus is God. The converse of course being that anyone who cannot affirm that Jesus is God curses him and is not indwelt by the Holy Spirit, but are instead influenced by the demonic like the pagans. You missed the "speaking by the spirit" in your explanation. Ergo, we must conclude that Wierwille and his followers both lack the Holy Spirit and are possibly even demonically possessed because they do not affirm that Jesus is God. There you go with the insults again. You keep avoiding answering my questions about that. Im going to be honest, citing a passage of Scripture that says you can tell who’s a Christian based on their affirmation that Jesus is God when you’re trying to prove that he’s not is a really weird self own. And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Matt. 3:17 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. Matt. 17:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; I Tim. 2:5 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. Acts 13:33 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. John 1:18 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. I John 4:9 |
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Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam: At the risk of stating the obvious... you have zero idea of the most fundamental concepts of Christian trinitarianism. Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam: At the risk of stating the obvious... you have zero idea of the most fundamental concepts of Christian trinitarianism. I do understand. It isn't supported by the Bible at all. Several verses I posted above proves that. Yes. Jesus is the son of God. yes, Jesus is God. yes, the Holy Spirit is the spirit of God. Yes, the Holy Spirit is God. If that were true, we are in trouble because we are not yet redeemed. If that were true, then Jesus could not be "the lamb of God". I can't find this diagram anywhere in my Bible. As the creed professes, I believe in one God. The Father almighty maker of heaven and earth. I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten son of God. Born of the Father before all ages. God from God. Light from Light. True God from True God. Begotten, not made. Consubstantial with the Father. Through him all things were made. Creed - not the Word of God. The docrines of men. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Mark 7:7 Note that Jesus himself said he was not to be worshipped. At least demonstrate half a clue about what you are arguing against if you are going to claim to have discovered proof that everyone has had this wrong since the earliest years of the Church. I'm embarrassed for you. Not the earliest years - 300 years after Jesus Christ ascended into heaven to sit down at the right hand of God. The doctrine of the Trinity was not established until the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. It was not taught at all by the Apostles and can only be found in later texts - so not part of the original Word of God. |
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Originally Posted By SCR556: I do understand. It isn't supported by the Bible at all. Several verses I posted above proves that. If that were true, we are in trouble because we are not yet redeemed. If that were true, then Jesus could not be "the lamb of God". I can't find this diagram anywhere in my Bible. Creed - not the Word of God. The docrines of men. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Mark 7:7 Note that Jesus himself said he was not to be worshipped. Not the earliest years - 300 years after Jesus Christ ascended into heaven to sit down at the right hand of God. The doctrine of the Trinity was not established until the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. It was not taught at all by the Apostles and can only be found in later texts - so not part of the original Word of God. Originally Posted By SCR556: Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam: At the risk of stating the obvious... you have zero idea of the most fundamental concepts of Christian trinitarianism. I do understand. It isn't supported by the Bible at all. Several verses I posted above proves that. Yes. Jesus is the son of God. yes, Jesus is God. yes, the Holy Spirit is the spirit of God. Yes, the Holy Spirit is God. If that were true, we are in trouble because we are not yet redeemed. If that were true, then Jesus could not be "the lamb of God". I can't find this diagram anywhere in my Bible. As the creed professes, I believe in one God. The Father almighty maker of heaven and earth. I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten son of God. Born of the Father before all ages. God from God. Light from Light. True God from True God. Begotten, not made. Consubstantial with the Father. Through him all things were made. Creed - not the Word of God. The docrines of men. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Mark 7:7 Note that Jesus himself said he was not to be worshipped. At least demonstrate half a clue about what you are arguing against if you are going to claim to have discovered proof that everyone has had this wrong since the earliest years of the Church. I'm embarrassed for you. Not the earliest years - 300 years after Jesus Christ ascended into heaven to sit down at the right hand of God. The doctrine of the Trinity was not established until the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. It was not taught at all by the Apostles and can only be found in later texts - so not part of the original Word of God. Doctrines are codified in response to heresies and issues of understanding like the non-trinitarian one you profess. The trinitarian belief was understood from the beginning. |
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Originally Posted By SCR556: I do understand. It isn't supported by the Bible at all. Several verses I posted above proves that. If that were true, we are in trouble because we are not yet redeemed. If that were true, then Jesus could not be "the lamb of God". I can't find this diagram anywhere in my Bible. Creed - not the Word of God. The docrines of men. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Mark 7:7 Note that Jesus himself said he was not to be worshipped. Not the earliest years - 300 years after Jesus Christ ascended into heaven to sit down at the right hand of God. The doctrine of the Trinity was not established until the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. It was not taught at all by the Apostles and can only be found in later texts - so not part of the original Word of God. Originally Posted By SCR556: Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam: At the risk of stating the obvious... you have zero idea of the most fundamental concepts of Christian trinitarianism. I do understand. It isn't supported by the Bible at all. Several verses I posted above proves that. Yes. Jesus is the son of God. yes, Jesus is God. yes, the Holy Spirit is the spirit of God. Yes, the Holy Spirit is God. If that were true, we are in trouble because we are not yet redeemed. If that were true, then Jesus could not be "the lamb of God". I can't find this diagram anywhere in my Bible. As the creed professes, I believe in one God. The Father almighty maker of heaven and earth. I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten son of God. Born of the Father before all ages. God from God. Light from Light. True God from True God. Begotten, not made. Consubstantial with the Father. Through him all things were made. Creed - not the Word of God. The docrines of men. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Mark 7:7 Note that Jesus himself said he was not to be worshipped. At least demonstrate half a clue about what you are arguing against if you are going to claim to have discovered proof that everyone has had this wrong since the earliest years of the Church. I'm embarrassed for you. Not the earliest years - 300 years after Jesus Christ ascended into heaven to sit down at the right hand of God. The doctrine of the Trinity was not established until the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. It was not taught at all by the Apostles and can only be found in later texts - so not part of the original Word of God. The doctrine of the Trinity was codified in 325, since there were groups arguing otherwise. It was most certain not "established" only then. This is a common fallacy I see here often, and is the ecclesiastical equivalent to saying the right to bear arms was only established in McDonald v Chicago, or even with the ratification of the Bill of Rights. And your every post shows you can't even pretend to understand it. For example, nothing about trinitarianism prevents Jesus Christ being the Lamb of God. Such a statement is absurd and nonsensical. The canon of scripture hadn't even been solidified in 325. Prior to 313, Christianity had not been legally allowed to exist in the Empire, existing as an underground faith and facing a mix of indifference and often outright persecution. |
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Originally Posted By SCR556: I do understand. It isn't supported by the Bible at all. Several verses I posted above proves that. If that were true, we are in trouble because we are not yet redeemed. If that were true, then Jesus could not be "the lamb of God". I can't find this diagram anywhere in my Bible. Creed - not the Word of God. The docrines of men. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Mark 7:7 Note that Jesus himself said he was not to be worshipped. Not the earliest years - 300 years after Jesus Christ ascended into heaven to sit down at the right hand of God. The doctrine of the Trinity was not established until the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. It was not taught at all by the Apostles and can only be found in later texts - so not part of the original Word of God. Originally Posted By SCR556: Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam: At the risk of stating the obvious... you have zero idea of the most fundamental concepts of Christian trinitarianism. I do understand. It isn't supported by the Bible at all. Several verses I posted above proves that. Yes. Jesus is the son of God. yes, Jesus is God. yes, the Holy Spirit is the spirit of God. Yes, the Holy Spirit is God. If that were true, we are in trouble because we are not yet redeemed. If that were true, then Jesus could not be "the lamb of God". I can't find this diagram anywhere in my Bible. As the creed professes, I believe in one God. The Father almighty maker of heaven and earth. I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten son of God. Born of the Father before all ages. God from God. Light from Light. True God from True God. Begotten, not made. Consubstantial with the Father. Through him all things were made. Creed - not the Word of God. The docrines of men. Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Mark 7:7 Note that Jesus himself said he was not to be worshipped. At least demonstrate half a clue about what you are arguing against if you are going to claim to have discovered proof that everyone has had this wrong since the earliest years of the Church. I'm embarrassed for you. Not the earliest years - 300 years after Jesus Christ ascended into heaven to sit down at the right hand of God. The doctrine of the Trinity was not established until the Council of Nicaea in 325 AD. It was not taught at all by the Apostles and can only be found in later texts - so not part of the original Word of God. Thomas's confession: Apekrithē Thōmas kai eipen autō; Ho kyrios mou kai ho theos mou. Literally, "Answered Thomas and said to him: The Lord of me and the God of me"(see John 20:28). Thomas had a personal encounter with the living God. Jesus is the Lord of me and the God of me. This is my confession and I trust Him. Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. John 20:29 NASB1995 [29] Jesus *said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.” https://bible.com/bible/100/jhn.20.29.NASB1995 ~ Jesus Son of God Jesus is who He says He is. |
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Originally Posted By SCR556: So if you do not believe Jesus Christ is God, then you cannot be a Christian? Well, then all the Apostles were screwed. Originally Posted By SCR556: So if you do not believe Jesus Christ is God, then you cannot be a Christian? Well, then all the Apostles were screwed. They call Christ Jesus God many times in the Epistles. This is blatantly incorrect. "To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen." Romans 9:5 "Waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ" Titus 2:13 "To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ" 2 Peter 1:1 "But of the Son he says, 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.'" Hebrews 1:8 ^ Here the Father is literally calling the Son God. While there are a few dozen verses in the Bible that could be used to prove the divinity of Christ, there are more than 900 verses that prove he is actually God's only begotten son. This statement make no sense, as Christ being the only begotten Son proves the divinity of Christ. Divine can only beget divine. John 1:18, in the Greek, literally calls Christ monogenes Theos...the 'only begotten God.' |
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Originally Posted By brianm: They call Christ Jesus God many times in the Epistles. This is blatantly incorrect. "To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen." Romans 9:5 "Waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ" Titus 2:13 "To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ" 2 Peter 1:1 "But of the Son he says, 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.'" Hebrews 1:8 ^ Here the Father is literally calling the Son God. This statement make no sense, as Christ being the only begotten Son proves the divinity of Christ. Divine can only beget divine. John 1:18, in the Greek, literally calls Christ monogenes Theos...the 'only begotten God.' Originally Posted By brianm: Originally Posted By SCR556: So if you do not believe Jesus Christ is God, then you cannot be a Christian? Well, then all the Apostles were screwed. They call Christ Jesus God many times in the Epistles. This is blatantly incorrect. "To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen." Romans 9:5 "Waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ" Titus 2:13 "To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ" 2 Peter 1:1 "But of the Son he says, 'Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.'" Hebrews 1:8 ^ Here the Father is literally calling the Son God. While there are a few dozen verses in the Bible that could be used to prove the divinity of Christ, there are more than 900 verses that prove he is actually God's only begotten son. This statement make no sense, as Christ being the only begotten Son proves the divinity of Christ. Divine can only beget divine. John 1:18, in the Greek, literally calls Christ monogenes Theos...the 'only begotten God.' He is trying to argue that reference to "son of God" somehow disproves the Trinity, then he resorts to the tired "where's that in the Bible" canard when you try to explain the Trinity. But, that wild nonsense about one epistle to a group of early Christians is meant to be reproof for an epistle to an entirely different group of early Christians? That requires no scriptural support at all, any more than the "dispensations." It's really a brilliant example of the tragedy that is sola scriptura. Maybe he also thinks the Holy Spirit is guiding his thoughts directly and thus they are beyond reproach. Just not sure if he asserts said Holy Spirit is God. |
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Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam: He is trying to argue that reference to "son of God" somehow disproves the Trinity, then he resorts to the tired "where's that in the Bible" canard when you try to explain the Trinity. But, that wild nonsense about one epistle to a group of early Christians is meant to be reproof for an epistle to an entirely different group of early Christians? That requires no scriptural support at all, any more than the "dispensations." It's really a brilliant example of the tragedy that is sola scriptura. Maybe he also thinks the Holy Spirit is guiding his thoughts directly and thus they are beyond reproach. Just not sure if he asserts said Holy Spirit is God. I wonder if certain people here see the irony. I am not sure what he is. I thought maybe oneness Pentecostal, with the false tongues and other things, but I think they claim Jesus is God but just subscribe to a modalist heresy. |
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Originally Posted By SCR556: If you keep reading I Cor. 12 (and not stopping with just the first three verses), the whole context of what Paul is talking about are the manifestations of holy spirit - which includes speaking in tongues. On the Day of Pentacost, what was the first thing the Apostles did when they became the first born again believers? Acts 2:4 - And they were all filled with the holy ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Another example of speaking by the spirit: I Cor. 14:2 - For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. Speaking in tongues is a sign that you are born again: I Cor. 14:22a - Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: "Kyrios" means "Lord" or "Master". In the Septuigent, the tranlaters substituted kyrios in place of God's name "Yahweh". Not sure why they did it, but they did. You missed the "speaking by the spirit" in your explanation. There you go with the insults again. You keep avoiding answering my questions about that. And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Matt. 3:17 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. Matt. 17:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; I Tim. 2:5 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. Acts 13:33 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. John 1:18 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. I John 4:9 Originally Posted By SCR556: Originally Posted By JAD762: When I said Denying the divinity of Christ is the textbook definition of denying Christ. You responded by saying, “I Cor. 12:3 tells me otherwise. “ Lets take a look at 1 Corinthians 12:3. Here’s the first three verses of the chapter just to give us some background on what’s going on. 1Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed. 2You know that when you were pagans, somehow or other you were influenced and led astray to mute idols. 3Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit. So in this passage Paul is talking about spiritual discernment, particularly in terms of spiritual gifts. He makes a contrast between pagans influenced by idols which are demonic, and Christians influenced by the Holy Spirit. Paul tells us that you can differentiate between the two not by who speaks in tongues or whatever, but based on how they respond to Jesus. Those indwelt by the Holy Spirit will affirm that Jesus is Lord, because none speaking by the Holy Spirit can curse Jesus. If you keep reading I Cor. 12 (and not stopping with just the first three verses), the whole context of what Paul is talking about are the manifestations of holy spirit - which includes speaking in tongues. On the Day of Pentacost, what was the first thing the Apostles did when they became the first born again believers? Acts 2:4 - And they were all filled with the holy ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. Another example of speaking by the spirit: I Cor. 14:2 - For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. Speaking in tongues is a sign that you are born again: I Cor. 14:22a - Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: Here’s the neat thing. That word “Lord” there is the Greek word “kyrios”, which in the New Testament is used to refer to God and in Greek translations of the Old Testament, is the word used for the personal name of God. "Kyrios" means "Lord" or "Master". In the Septuigent, the tranlaters substituted kyrios in place of God's name "Yahweh". Not sure why they did it, but they did. Thus, according to 1 Corinthians 12:3, anyone who is indwelt by the Holy Spirit will affirm that Jesus is God. The converse of course being that anyone who cannot affirm that Jesus is God curses him and is not indwelt by the Holy Spirit, but are instead influenced by the demonic like the pagans. You missed the "speaking by the spirit" in your explanation. Ergo, we must conclude that Wierwille and his followers both lack the Holy Spirit and are possibly even demonically possessed because they do not affirm that Jesus is God. There you go with the insults again. You keep avoiding answering my questions about that. Im going to be honest, citing a passage of Scripture that says you can tell who’s a Christian based on their affirmation that Jesus is God when you’re trying to prove that he’s not is a really weird self own. And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. Matt. 3:17 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. Matt. 17:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; I Tim. 2:5 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. Acts 13:33 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him. John 1:18 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. I John 4:9 1 Corinthians 12 does talk about spiritual gifts. But they are not evidences of the Spirit. You can tell that a person possess the Spirt by confessing that Jesus is God. Because demons can fake tongues and all that nonsense. But they can’t fake confessing that Jesus is God. That’s why in Matthew Jesus says; 21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ 23 And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ So they were able to do miraculous things, but they were all works of lawlessness. Because, like Paul said in 1 Corinthians, the distinguishing work of the spirit is confessing the Jesus is God. As for all the verses you cited, they’re true. Jesus is our mediator and lamb and son of God. What of it? You realize he can be all those things and still be God, right? What you’re doing here is creating a false dichotomy. None of the titles given to Jesus in those verses are mutually exclusive to the fact that he is God. Look at what Paul said about Jesus in Titus 2: For the grace of God has appeared, [h]bringing salvation to all people, 12 instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously, and in a godly manner in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, 14 who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, eager for good deeds. Notice Paul says that Jesus is both our savior and our great God at the same time. So once again, you are at an impasse. You think Jesus is not God, but in Titus 2 Paul explicitly calls Jesus God. Once again you get to find out if you’re really a biblicist, or just cosplaying one. Who’s going to win? The doctrine of man you’ve been promoting, or the Bible? |
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Sound doctrine must be important gentlemen: Titus 1:9 NASB1995 [9] holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict. https://bible.com/bible/100/tit.1.9.NASB1995 Titus 2:1 NASB1995 [1] But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine. https://bible.com/bible/100/tit.2.1.NASB1995 1 Timothy 4:6 NASB1995 [6] In pointing out these things to the brethren, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, constantly nourished on the words of the faith and of the sound doctrine which you have been following. https://bible.com/bible/100/1ti.4.6.NASB1995 1 Timothy 4:16 NASB1995 [16] Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you. https://bible.com/bible/100/1ti.4.16.NASB1995 1 Timothy 6:3-5 NASB1995 [3] If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, [4] he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, [5] and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. https://bible.com/bible/100/1ti.6.3-5.NASB1995 2 Timothy 4:3-5 NASB1995 [3] For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, [4] and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. [5] But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. https://bible.com/bible/100/2ti.4.3-5.NASB1995 ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle |
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Originally Posted By Bishop3: Sound doctrine must be important gentlemen: Titus 1:9 NASB1995 [9] holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict. https://bible.com/bible/100/tit.1.9.NASB1995 Titus 2:1 NASB1995 [1] But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine. https://bible.com/bible/100/tit.2.1.NASB1995 1 Timothy 4:6 NASB1995 [6] In pointing out these things to the brethren, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, constantly nourished on the words of the faith and of the sound doctrine which you have been following. https://bible.com/bible/100/1ti.4.6.NASB1995 1 Timothy 4:16 NASB1995 [16] Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you. https://bible.com/bible/100/1ti.4.16.NASB1995 1 Timothy 6:3-5 NASB1995 [3] If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, [4] he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, [5] and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. https://bible.com/bible/100/1ti.6.3-5.NASB1995 2 Timothy 4:3-5 NASB1995 [3] For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, [4] and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. [5] But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. https://bible.com/bible/100/2ti.4.3-5.NASB1995 ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle They did not in fact see the irony... |
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Originally Posted By brianm: They did not in fact see the irony... Originally Posted By brianm: Originally Posted By Bishop3: Sound doctrine must be important gentlemen: Titus 1:9 NASB1995 [9] holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict. https://bible.com/bible/100/tit.1.9.NASB1995 Titus 2:1 NASB1995 [1] But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine. https://bible.com/bible/100/tit.2.1.NASB1995 1 Timothy 4:6 NASB1995 [6] In pointing out these things to the brethren, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, constantly nourished on the words of the faith and of the sound doctrine which you have been following. https://bible.com/bible/100/1ti.4.6.NASB1995 1 Timothy 4:16 NASB1995 [16] Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you. https://bible.com/bible/100/1ti.4.16.NASB1995 1 Timothy 6:3-5 NASB1995 [3] If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, [4] he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, [5] and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. https://bible.com/bible/100/1ti.6.3-5.NASB1995 2 Timothy 4:3-5 NASB1995 [3] For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, [4] and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. [5] But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. https://bible.com/bible/100/2ti.4.3-5.NASB1995 ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle They did not in fact see the irony... 
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Modern life is one steep, perpetual tax on the mathematically impaired
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Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam: Originally Posted By brianm: Originally Posted By Bishop3: Sound doctrine must be important gentlemen: Titus 1:9 NASB1995 [9] holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict. https://bible.com/bible/100/tit.1.9.NASB1995 Titus 2:1 NASB1995 [1] But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine. https://bible.com/bible/100/tit.2.1.NASB1995 1 Timothy 4:6 NASB1995 [6] In pointing out these things to the brethren, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, constantly nourished on the words of the faith and of the sound doctrine which you have been following. https://bible.com/bible/100/1ti.4.6.NASB1995 1 Timothy 4:16 NASB1995 [16] Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you. https://bible.com/bible/100/1ti.4.16.NASB1995 1 Timothy 6:3-5 NASB1995 [3] If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, [4] he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, [5] and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. https://bible.com/bible/100/1ti.6.3-5.NASB1995 2 Timothy 4:3-5 NASB1995 [3] For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, [4] and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. [5] But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. https://bible.com/bible/100/2ti.4.3-5.NASB1995 ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle They did not in fact see the irony... https://media.tenor.com/faCOq89G4PgAAAAM/snicker-laughing.gif I am aware of the fact that there are many who do not like sound doctrine, or any other doctrine. But, the fact remains that the Bible teaches sound doctrine. John 7:15-17 ESV [15] The Jews therefore marveled, saying, “How is it that this man has learning, when he has never studied?” [16] So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. [17] If anyone’s will is to do God’s will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority. https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.7.15-17.ESV ~ Jesus Son of Man Son of God Sound doctrine is the whole truth of God in its entirety, the Apostle Paul declared that he was "innocent of the blood of all, for I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God..." Acts 20:25-32 ESV [25] And now, behold, I know that none of you among whom I have gone about proclaiming the kingdom will see my face again. [26] Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all, [27] for I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God. [28] Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood. [29] I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; [30] and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them. [31] Therefore be alert, remembering that for three years I did not cease night or day to admonish every one with tears. [32] And now I commend you to God and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified. https://bible.com/bible/59/act.20.25-32.ESV |
USMC 85-'93 Amphibious YAT-YAS
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Originally Posted By Bishop3: I am aware of the fact that there are many who do not like sound doctrine, or any other doctrine. But, the fact remains that the Bible teaches sound doctrine. John 7:15-17 ESV [15] The Jews therefore marveled, saying, “How is it that this man has learning, when he has never studied?” [16] So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. [17] If anyone’s will is to do God’s will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority. https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.7.15-17.ESV ~ Jesus Son of Man Son of God Sound doctrine is the whole truth of God in its entirety, the Apostle Paul declared that he was "innocent of the blood of all, for I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God..." Acts 20:25-32 ESV [25] And now, behold, I know that none of you among whom I have gone about proclaiming the kingdom will see my face again. [26] Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all, [27] for I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God. [28] Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood. [29] I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; [30] and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them. [31] Therefore be alert, remembering that for three years I did not cease night or day to admonish every one with tears. [32] And now I commend you to God and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified. https://bible.com/bible/59/act.20.25-32.ESV Originally Posted By Bishop3: Originally Posted By Bohr_Adam: Originally Posted By brianm: Originally Posted By Bishop3: Sound doctrine must be important gentlemen: Titus 1:9 NASB1995 [9] holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict. https://bible.com/bible/100/tit.1.9.NASB1995 Titus 2:1 NASB1995 [1] But as for you, speak the things which are fitting for sound doctrine. https://bible.com/bible/100/tit.2.1.NASB1995 1 Timothy 4:6 NASB1995 [6] In pointing out these things to the brethren, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, constantly nourished on the words of the faith and of the sound doctrine which you have been following. https://bible.com/bible/100/1ti.4.6.NASB1995 1 Timothy 4:16 NASB1995 [16] Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you. https://bible.com/bible/100/1ti.4.16.NASB1995 1 Timothy 6:3-5 NASB1995 [3] If anyone advocates a different doctrine and does not agree with sound words, those of our Lord Jesus Christ, and with the doctrine conforming to godliness, [4] he is conceited and understands nothing; but he has a morbid interest in controversial questions and disputes about words, out of which arise envy, strife, abusive language, evil suspicions, [5] and constant friction between men of depraved mind and deprived of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. https://bible.com/bible/100/1ti.6.3-5.NASB1995 2 Timothy 4:3-5 NASB1995 [3] For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, [4] and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths. [5] But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. https://bible.com/bible/100/2ti.4.3-5.NASB1995 ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle They did not in fact see the irony... https://media.tenor.com/faCOq89G4PgAAAAM/snicker-laughing.gif I am aware of the fact that there are many who do not like sound doctrine, or any other doctrine. But, the fact remains that the Bible teaches sound doctrine. John 7:15-17 ESV [15] The Jews therefore marveled, saying, “How is it that this man has learning, when he has never studied?” [16] So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. [17] If anyone’s will is to do God’s will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or whether I am speaking on my own authority. https://bible.com/bible/59/jhn.7.15-17.ESV ~ Jesus Son of Man Son of God Sound doctrine is the whole truth of God in its entirety, the Apostle Paul declared that he was "innocent of the blood of all, for I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God..." Acts 20:25-32 ESV [25] And now, behold, I know that none of you among whom I have gone about proclaiming the kingdom will see my face again. [26] Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all, [27] for I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole counsel of God. [28] Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood. [29] I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; [30] and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them. [31] Therefore be alert, remembering that for three years I did not cease night or day to admonish every one with tears. [32] And now I commend you to God and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified. https://bible.com/bible/59/act.20.25-32.ESV The arguments in the past have been about sound doctrine. Yet you add the caveat of "or any other doctrine." It's either sound, or it's not. The "any other doctrine" would be the unsound doctrine. Interesting. |
Why is the sky blue?
What makes the green grass grow?
What makes the green grass grow?