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Posted: 5/20/2022 10:46:39 AM EDT
[#1]
9-5 while wearing a suit and the woman stayed home with the children is what made this country great
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Posted: 5/20/2022 10:47:20 AM EDT
[#2]
Anyone who doesn't embrace, at a minimum, a hybrid culture in tech these days is outdated and will be pushed out. There's no need to bring tech (and, to be honest, the vast majority of white collar work) back to the office 5 days a week.
Anyone who rails against this would have railed against 5 day, 8-hour-a-day work weeks as well. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 10:47:29 AM EDT
[#3]
I'm not going to back to the office. and i'm not sitting in traffic daily again. Working remote i moved out into the mountains.. Still a couple hours from the city for emergencies but i wont go in again. I dont really care what the boomers want.
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Posted: 5/20/2022 10:48:44 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 9-5 while wearing a suit and the woman stayed home with the children is what made this country great Different times. Different technology. The way we work in 2022 isn't the same as 2002 which wasn't the same as 1982, which wasn't... |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 10:52:03 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: https://gizmodo.com/apple-return-to-work-policy-alphabet-machine-learnin-1848942742 Well, this is awkward. One of Apple’s highest-profile return-to-office detractors reportedly landed a new gig at Alphabet’s DeepMind, marking the latest drama over Big Tech’s remote work scuffles. That move, ironically, comes right around the same time Apple decided to walk back its most recent return-to-office push In an internal memo viewed by Bloomberg Tuesday, the company said it will delay its three-day in-office work requirement set to take effect on May 23. The memo reportedly cited the recent uptick in covid-19 cases for the delay and didn’t provide any hard date for when they’d try again. Bend the knee! That job switch marks a major blow for Apple, a company that’s struggled to appease workers at odds with its return to work strategy. Goodfellow, who’s the most senior member known to have jumped ship over remote work so far, reportedly addressed the issue directly in a note to staff obtained by The Verge’s Zoë Schiffer. “I believe strongly that more flexibility would have been the best policy for my team,” Goodfellow reportedly wrote. WFH flexibility is the way we will do work for anyone who's job is done mostly via computer or communication, and doesn't require hands on hardware. There is definitely value in having face to face interactions, but this doesn't need to be 5 days a week. And there are some types of positions where being physically in an office could be something that doesn't even happen on a weekly basis. It's hilarious to watch the last, dying gasps of the old dinosaur work culture. Yeah this IMO is one (of the few,) silver linings of COVID. The old-school middle mgt types trying to hold onto their value in corp America. Gotta keep the progs in their place. Hey, if you can’t provide value to any job it regards of location, you don’t eat. Adapt or die…. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 10:53:01 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Different times. Different technology. The way we work in 2022 isn't the same as 2002 which wasn't the same as 1982, which wasn't... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 9-5 while wearing a suit and the woman stayed home with the children is what made this country great Different times. Different technology. The way we work in 2022 isn't the same as 2002 which wasn't the same as 1982, which wasn't... |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 10:53:09 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anyone who doesn't embrace, at a minimum, a hybrid culture in tech these days is outdated and will be pushed out. There's no need to bring tech (and, to be honest, the vast majority of white collar work) back to the office 5 days a week. Anyone who rails against this would have railed against 5 day, 8-hour-a-day work weeks as well. At the start of this year I surveyed everyone that reports up to me. 95% wanted some form of hybrid work arrangement. 5% wanted to be in the office all the time. I found those 5% nicer offices than they had previously during the big shuffle. Everyone else gets to work mostly from home. Some people are in the office once or twice a week, some people once or twice a month. Some employees live 5 states away and have never been in the office because they were hired during COVID. Last year was one of our most profitable on record. Huge bonuses all the way around. Dinosaurs will be dinosaurs. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 10:54:51 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Different times. Different technology. The way we work in 2022 isn't the same as 2002 which wasn't the same as 1982, which wasn't... Been working from home since 2003. Heck, I even did college coding (vi editor) and email (pine) from the apt via telnet over dialup in the 90's. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 10:55:02 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He isn't wrong though. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: 9-5 while wearing a suit and the woman stayed home with the children is what made this country great Different times. Different technology. The way we work in 2022 isn't the same as 2002 which wasn't the same as 1982, which wasn't... But that's history and it's water under the bridge. That's like saying the Peacemaker and the lever action rifle were the guns that won the west, so we should all be carrying single actions and using lever guns. What may have been true at one time in history is not always true at some point in the future. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 10:55:59 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At the start of this year I surveyed everyone that reports up to me. 95% wanted some form of hybrid work arrangement. 5% wanted to be in the office all the time. I found those 5% nicer offices than they had previously during the big shuffle. Everyone else gets to work mostly from home. Some people are in the office once or twice a week, some people once or twice a month. Some employees live 5 states away and have never been in the office because they were hired during COVID. Last year was one of our most profitable on record. Huge bonuses all the way around. Dinosaurs will be dinosaurs. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Anyone who doesn't embrace, at a minimum, a hybrid culture in tech these days is outdated and will be pushed out. There's no need to bring tech (and, to be honest, the vast majority of white collar work) back to the office 5 days a week. Anyone who rails against this would have railed against 5 day, 8-hour-a-day work weeks as well. At the start of this year I surveyed everyone that reports up to me. 95% wanted some form of hybrid work arrangement. 5% wanted to be in the office all the time. I found those 5% nicer offices than they had previously during the big shuffle. Everyone else gets to work mostly from home. Some people are in the office once or twice a week, some people once or twice a month. Some employees live 5 states away and have never been in the office because they were hired during COVID. Last year was one of our most profitable on record. Huge bonuses all the way around. Dinosaurs will be dinosaurs. Same, same. Every direct report of mine wanted to continue to WFH as much and as often as possible. When we do big planning sessions, they wanted to come in and do that in person. Easy. I can support that. The only people who wanted to come back full-time were long-term middle managers. I wonder why. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 10:57:19 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not going to back to the office. and i'm not sitting in traffic daily again. Working remote i moved out into the mountains.. Still a couple hours from the city for emergencies but i wont go in again. I dont really care what the boomers want. I haven't been to an office in years. I bought my home in the country outside of a small town in TN after a move from the Metro DC area. I won't go back to the city and I'll do everything in my power to never sit in traffic again to go sit in a cube. As a network architect, there ARE times where being in the same room as my peers for long, collaborative design sessions is nice, but we've adapted to doing that remotely and with Zoom, WebEx, Slack, Teams, Confluence, LucidChart, etc, there's almost nothing we can't do remotely. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 10:58:34 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Same, same. Every direct report of mine wanted to continue to WFH as much and as often as possible. When we do big planning sessions, they wanted to come in and do that in person. Easy. I can support that. The only people who wanted to come back full-time were long-term middle managers. I wonder why. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Anyone who doesn't embrace, at a minimum, a hybrid culture in tech these days is outdated and will be pushed out. There's no need to bring tech (and, to be honest, the vast majority of white collar work) back to the office 5 days a week. Anyone who rails against this would have railed against 5 day, 8-hour-a-day work weeks as well. At the start of this year I surveyed everyone that reports up to me. 95% wanted some form of hybrid work arrangement. 5% wanted to be in the office all the time. I found those 5% nicer offices than they had previously during the big shuffle. Everyone else gets to work mostly from home. Some people are in the office once or twice a week, some people once or twice a month. Some employees live 5 states away and have never been in the office because they were hired during COVID. Last year was one of our most profitable on record. Huge bonuses all the way around. Dinosaurs will be dinosaurs. Same, same. Every direct report of mine wanted to continue to WFH as much and as often as possible. When we do big planning sessions, they wanted to come in and do that in person. Easy. I can support that. The only people who wanted to come back full-time were long-term middle managers. I wonder why. That's actually an ideal situation. Middle managers are idiots if they think making people go into the office is gonna get them a promotion. They best way to get a promotion in middle management is play good office politics with your higher ups. I never understood the obsession with US workforce into making their job their life. Fuck all that |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 10:58:42 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 9-5 while wearing a suit and the woman stayed home with the children is what made this country great Slavery was the engine of the South for years. Slavery went away, you're still wearing cotton underwear. Times change. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 10:59:37 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Slavery was the engine of the South for years. Slavery went away, you're still wearing cotton underwear. Times change. Ex Officio FTW |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 11:02:51 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But that's history and it's water under the bridge. That's like saying the Peacemaker and the lever action rifle were the guns that won the west, so we should all be carrying single actions and using lever guns. What may have been true at one time in history is not always true at some point in the future. Maybe more time at home will help but my wife nannied for several years and actually most of the homes had one or both parents working from home. So it's still not really the same as a dedicated parent raising kids/maintaining the home. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 11:04:11 AM EDT
[#16]
My company has mostly embraced FT WFH. You can tell that there are a few in upper management that would like to see people in the office on occasion (hybrid) just because personal relationships and all that BS. We have a bunch of developers. All or mostly all introverts so yeah, what ever.
 WFH worked great during covid, no reason to back track now.
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Posted: 5/20/2022 11:04:43 AM EDT
[#17]
From a company standpoint, couldn’t they hire people for a lower wage because they live in a lower cost of living area? I don’t think there is any doubt many industries will be hit with layoffs over the next 2 years. If the work is 100% remote then the list of qualified applicants should be higher.
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Posted: 5/20/2022 11:15:22 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you think this new way provides a healthier family structure? I'm pretty sure that's what he was referring to. But working in the office or home doesn't really change that most households still need both the man and women to be earners now. Maybe more time at home will help but my wife nannied for several years and actually most of the homes had one or both parents working from home. So it's still not really the same as a dedicated parent raising kids/maintaining the home. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: But that's history and it's water under the bridge. That's like saying the Peacemaker and the lever action rifle were the guns that won the west, so we should all be carrying single actions and using lever guns. What may have been true at one time in history is not always true at some point in the future. Maybe more time at home will help but my wife nannied for several years and actually most of the homes had one or both parents working from home. So it's still not really the same as a dedicated parent raising kids/maintaining the home. I'm not arguing whether or not two parents working FT vs. one parent working FT and one parenting FT is better. And not every employee is married/partnered or has children. I'm only talking about how an employee works, whether in the office all the time or hybrid, not if they should or shouldn't have a job. That's really a separate thread. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 11:15:40 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted: https://gizmodo.com/apple-return-to-work-policy-alphabet-machine-learnin-1848942742 Well, this is awkward. One of Apple’s highest-profile return-to-office detractors reportedly landed a new gig at Alphabet’s DeepMind, marking the latest drama over Big Tech’s remote work scuffles. That move, ironically, comes right around the same time Apple decided to walk back its most recent return-to-office push In an internal memo viewed by Bloomberg Tuesday, the company said it will delay its three-day in-office work requirement set to take effect on May 23. The memo reportedly cited the recent uptick in covid-19 cases for the delay and didn’t provide any hard date for when they’d try again. Bend the knee! That job switch marks a major blow for Apple, a company that’s struggled to appease workers at odds with its return to work strategy. Goodfellow, who’s the most senior member known to have jumped ship over remote work so far, reportedly addressed the issue directly in a note to staff obtained by The Verge’s Zoë Schiffer. “I believe strongly that more flexibility would have been the best policy for my team,” Goodfellow reportedly wrote. WFH flexibility is the way we will do work for anyone who's job is done mostly via computer or communication, and doesn't require hands on hardware. There is definitely value in having face to face interactions, but this doesn't need to be 5 days a week. And there are some types of positions where being physically in an office could be something that doesn't even happen on a weekly basis. It's hilarious to watch the last, dying gasps of the old dinosaur work culture. pity the commercial office real estate owners, they finna take a bath |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 11:21:40 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From a company standpoint, couldn’t they hire people for a lower wage because they live in a lower cost of living area? I don’t think there is any doubt many industries will be hit with layoffs over the next 2 years. If the work is 100% remote then the list of qualified applicants should be higher. This may actually become a thing in the future. Currently, at my place of employment, salary level has no bearing on work style. It has been discussed that if some employees negotiate WFH as their normal modality, then pay adjustments could be a part of that. However, the fact that we're headed for embracing white collar remote work means that taking a new position may not require you to relocate. There have been multiple instances in the past 20 years of my career where we tried to recruit a new employee with outstanding experience and a highly proven track record, but the reason in the end they declined was simply the fact that ultimately while they felt our offer would be better long term, they didn't want to uproot their family with multiple kids. So now, I can tell that same rockstar recruit no problem, stay working from home. We'll fly you out a couple times a year for major meetings/reviews/etc, but your day to day work can be done remotely. I'm already seeing this play out for and against my company, where we've gained people who are going to be full time remote but we've lost people to full time remote jobs at competitors, where the latter probably wouldn't have relocated their family out of state in the past. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 11:22:34 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: pity the commercial office real estate owners, they finna take a bath Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: https://gizmodo.com/apple-return-to-work-policy-alphabet-machine-learnin-1848942742 Well, this is awkward. One of Apple’s highest-profile return-to-office detractors reportedly landed a new gig at Alphabet’s DeepMind, marking the latest drama over Big Tech’s remote work scuffles. That move, ironically, comes right around the same time Apple decided to walk back its most recent return-to-office push In an internal memo viewed by Bloomberg Tuesday, the company said it will delay its three-day in-office work requirement set to take effect on May 23. The memo reportedly cited the recent uptick in covid-19 cases for the delay and didn’t provide any hard date for when they’d try again. Bend the knee! That job switch marks a major blow for Apple, a company that’s struggled to appease workers at odds with its return to work strategy. Goodfellow, who’s the most senior member known to have jumped ship over remote work so far, reportedly addressed the issue directly in a note to staff obtained by The Verge’s Zoë Schiffer. “I believe strongly that more flexibility would have been the best policy for my team,” Goodfellow reportedly wrote. WFH flexibility is the way we will do work for anyone who's job is done mostly via computer or communication, and doesn't require hands on hardware. There is definitely value in having face to face interactions, but this doesn't need to be 5 days a week. And there are some types of positions where being physically in an office could be something that doesn't even happen on a weekly basis. It's hilarious to watch the last, dying gasps of the old dinosaur work culture. pity the commercial office real estate owners, they finna take a bath Adapt and evolve or die out. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 11:23:02 AM EDT
[#22]
There’s a time and place to be in the office and it DOES offer better productivity when you need to talk to someone directly next to you.
Whiteboard discussions are a must and not everyone can solve problems over a computer. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 11:25:59 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This may actually become a thing in the future. Currently, at my place of employment, salary level has no bearing on work style. It has been discussed that if some employees negotiate WFH as their normal modality, then pay adjustments could be a part of that. However, the fact that we're headed for embracing white collar remote work means that taking a new position may not require you to relocate. There have been multiple instances in the past 20 years of my career where we tried to recruit a new employee with outstanding experience and a highly proven track record, but the reason in the end they declined was simply the fact that ultimately while they felt our offer would be better long term, they didn't want to uproot their family with multiple kids. So now, I can tell that same rockstar recruit no problem, stay working from home. We'll fly you out a couple times a year for major meetings/reviews/etc, but your day to day work can be done remotely. I'm already seeing this play out for and against my company, where we've gained people who are going to be full time remote but we've lost people to full time remote jobs at competitors, where the latter probably wouldn't have relocated their family out of state in the past. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: From a company standpoint, couldn’t they hire people for a lower wage because they live in a lower cost of living area? I don’t think there is any doubt many industries will be hit with layoffs over the next 2 years. If the work is 100% remote then the list of qualified applicants should be higher. This may actually become a thing in the future. Currently, at my place of employment, salary level has no bearing on work style. It has been discussed that if some employees negotiate WFH as their normal modality, then pay adjustments could be a part of that. However, the fact that we're headed for embracing white collar remote work means that taking a new position may not require you to relocate. There have been multiple instances in the past 20 years of my career where we tried to recruit a new employee with outstanding experience and a highly proven track record, but the reason in the end they declined was simply the fact that ultimately while they felt our offer would be better long term, they didn't want to uproot their family with multiple kids. So now, I can tell that same rockstar recruit no problem, stay working from home. We'll fly you out a couple times a year for major meetings/reviews/etc, but your day to day work can be done remotely. I'm already seeing this play out for and against my company, where we've gained people who are going to be full time remote but we've lost people to full time remote jobs at competitors, where the latter probably wouldn't have relocated their family out of state in the past. I've been having this debate with my senior leadership team. Folks who try to pay less for employees who live in lower COL areas will see it work for a bit and then see it fall apart. You pay a salary for work performed. The work this individual performs doesn't change based on their location, nor does it value to your firm. Pay to attract top talent, regardless of where they live in the US. (This, of course, has some weaknesses. It really only holds true for US positions - e.g. you wouldn't pay a dev shop on the other side of the world US-level rates. But what you do is pay them competitively for their market so you can attract talent. Here in the US, that's a pretty strong baseline that moves across states. For instance, gas, food, and pretty much most non-housing costs are relatively similar regardless of where one chooses to live. A Toyota Camry or an iPhone don't magically cost less in the deep south because "cost of living is lower there!" So until and unless companies start pricing based on market adjustments for solid goods like that, I won't put much stock in the counterarguments.) |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 11:26:06 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not going to back to the office. and i'm not sitting in traffic daily again. Working remote i moved out into the mountains.. Still a couple hours from the city for emergencies but i wont go in again. I dont really care what the boomers want. boomers are retiring, it's you...not us. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 11:27:02 AM EDT
[#25]
My wife has been working from home since the scamdemic started. She is an auditor for a large credit union. They sent two computer monitors and a docking station for her work laptop for her to use. Everything she does could be done from home.
This week she had to start going back to the office full time, she's so pissed when she gets home. They're going to keep the equipment here, so why make her go back to the office? Especially now that gas is pushing $5 a gallon. She said that it seems that people that had to be there were complaining about the people that were still working from home. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 11:27:02 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There’s a time and place to be in the office and it DOES offer better productivity when you need to talk to someone directly next to you. Whiteboard discussions are a must and not everyone can solve problems over a computer. This isn't wrong. And exactly why I've been adamant with my team leads that when people are going to be in the office, it needs to be value added time in the office. There's no reason to have people sitting in the office just to be in the office, unless that employee prefers being in an office setting. Now, we do have a few people who are completely remote, and it actually means travel for them to be in the office. Right now, these are specific positions where the work is more self contained and less collaborative. Due to the nature of my work, which is mostly computer based but occasionally requires working with actual hardware, I don't see most of my reports ever being 100% WFH and living remotely. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 11:33:47 AM EDT
[#27]
Impoverished managers from a skills and knowledge perspective tend to prefer chaining employees to a cubicle in person. Unless they work in a field where hands on tasks are required, it can be an easier ask for more productivity when workers do not have to factor in the time and expenses required to commute.
There are myriad tools to monitor and measure productivity remotely, but it takes good organization and some forethought by management. I think what COVID illustrated for many employers is just how many employees and managers were limited producers overall. Folks who could produce independently did not need in-person babysitting by middle managers and team leads. The ones who tended to prefer in-office work in my experience were the same ones who had trouble with technology, those who tended to disappear during the working day, and folks who did little but were great at LOOKING "busy." |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 11:35:43 AM EDT
[#28]
A lot of Navy folks I know worked from home during the scamdemic. Turns out they didn’t work much. But as long as someone can get what they need done then I see no issue.
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Posted: 5/20/2022 11:36:55 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 9-5 while wearing a suit and the woman stayed home with the children is what made this country great  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 11:41:00 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 9-5 while wearing a suit and the woman stayed home with the children is what made this country great You mean when an average office job salary could buy a house in a good neighborhood, a couple of cars, a camper and a boat, and braces for Lisa? And that was one income earner? |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 11:43:27 AM EDT
[#31]
Can the chinese slave children who make all of apple's products work from home now too?
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Posted: 5/20/2022 11:46:22 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There’s a time and place to be in the office and it DOES offer better productivity when you need to talk to someone directly next to you. Whiteboard discussions are a must and not everyone can solve problems over a computer. Who still uses a physical whiteboard for collaboration? All of those tools are digital, and a whole lotta problems do get solved by interstate groups collaborating with digital tools. I understand physical work with physical plant requires physical presence, but even then it doesn't make a whiteboard essential. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 11:48:33 AM EDT
[#33]
With fuel prices the way they are, I can't imagine not wanting to work from home!
Starting in June, we have to be in the office 2x per pay period to keep locality pay adjustments per the IRS. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 11:59:42 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah this IMO is one (of the few,) silver linings of COVID. .The old-school middle mgt types trying to hold onto their value in corp America Gotta keep the progs in their place. Hey, if you can't provide value to any job it regards of location, you don't eat. Adapt or die. Ding. Winner. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 12:07:02 PM EDT
[#35]
Lots of things have gone to shit with WFH. Need to talk to a couple of people on another team urgently? Used to be you called and they put you on speakerphone. Now you spend 15 minutes trying to get everyone on the call. Need to speak to the nurse at the doctors office? She leaves a message from a blocked number (because it’s hers) with the switchboard, after ten minutes on hold they tell you they’ll page her and 20 minutes later she calls back. Just a clusterfuck.
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Posted: 5/20/2022 12:08:16 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Can the chinese slave children who make all of apple's products work from home now too? No. But that's a different discussion. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 12:10:41 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There’s a time and place to be in the office and it DOES offer better productivity when you need to talk to someone directly next to you. Whiteboard discussions are a must and not everyone can solve problems over a computer. We’ve found that the WFHs need an extra two hours a week of explaining what’s going on that the office personnel get from just being in the same building. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 12:12:01 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 9-5 while wearing a suit and the woman stayed home with the children is what made this country great 
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Posted: 5/20/2022 12:13:27 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He isn't wrong though. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: 9-5 while wearing a suit and the woman stayed home with the children is what made this country great Different times. Different technology. The way we work in 2022 isn't the same as 2002 which wasn't the same as 1982, which wasn't... lol |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 12:14:13 PM EDT
[#40]
I work in this space and most companies are slowly bending the knee. I have talked to a dozen companies in the last month, you would recognize all but one or two of them, and they are moving to a fully hybrid model.
Some are moving slowly, but they are moving. For office work, paradoxically, there is not much need for an office. I just spoke with one of the largest customer service and customer feedback vendors yesterday, and they have now gone fully hybrid. come in if you want, don't if you don't. honestly how it should be. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 12:20:42 PM EDT
[#41]
I'm in IT for my company and part of my promotion to Network Engineer was that I wanted to be permanent remote since all of our offices are spread throughout the south and Atlantic states. Everything I do is through a console or webpage via a controller. The fuck do I have to be in the office for? So I'm moving north while still being ~3 hours from our HQ in this area in case I have to drive to manually fix something. Otherwise it'd be a plane ride to any other state, which can also be done anywhere there's an airport.
This boomer "if I don't see you working, you aren't working" mentality is thankfully dying out with the boomers as they retire or die. Along with stupid fucking dress codes of button up/slacks to sit at a desk with zero customer interaction. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 12:25:21 PM EDT
[#42]
Not long ago, I used to spend ~10 hours a week sitting in traffic, and most of that was driving to and from a cube farm where I did work I am perfectly capable of doing from home. Unless I get really desperate or there's a monster compensation upgrade, I'll never consider doing that again. It's safe to say I'm not alone.
These days, I drive in to work 1-3 times a week to do work that requires me to physically handle equipment. I am not only fine with this, but I enjoy it. As a bonus, I have the flexibility to make my commute outside of rush hour. It's pretty great. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 12:27:02 PM EDT
[#43]
Not wanting to go back to the office makes sense to me when it comes to Apple... and the mostly left-leaning people that work for them out in Kalifornistan.
They're scardey cats. COVID scared the shit out of them, and now many people just think they'll get sick and DIE if they end up working around other people! |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 12:27:49 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: Anyone who doesn't embrace, at a minimum, a hybrid culture in tech these days is outdated and will be pushed out. There's no need to bring tech (and, to be honest, the vast majority of white collar work) back to the office 5 days a week. Anyone who rails against this would have railed against 5 day, 8-hour-a-day work weeks as well. Quoted: Same, same. Every direct report of mine wanted to continue to WFH as much and as often as possible. When we do big planning sessions, they wanted to come in and do that in person. Easy. I can support that. The only people who wanted to come back full-time were long-term middle managers. I wonder why. Quoted: I've been having this debate with my senior leadership team. Folks who try to pay less for employees who live in lower COL areas will see it work for a bit and then see it fall apart. You pay a salary for work performed. The work this individual performs doesn't change based on their location, nor does it value to your firm. Pay to attract top talent, regardless of where they live in the US. (This, of course, has some weaknesses. It really only holds true for US positions - e.g. you wouldn't pay a dev shop on the other side of the world US-level rates. But what you do is pay them competitively for their market so you can attract talent. Here in the US, that's a pretty strong baseline that moves across states. For instance, gas, food, and pretty much most non-housing costs are relatively similar regardless of where one chooses to live. A Toyota Camry or an iPhone don't magically cost less in the deep south because "cost of living is lower there!" So until and unless companies start pricing based on market adjustments for solid goods like that, I won't put much stock in the counterarguments.) You're killing it in this thread. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 12:32:05 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not going to back to the office. and i'm not sitting in traffic daily again. Working remote i moved out into the mountains.. Still a couple hours from the city for emergencies but i wont go in again. I dont really care what the boomers want. I can just hear him/her saying this as his/her voice squeaks because his/her balls haven't dropped yet! |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 12:34:02 PM EDT
[#46]
My manager is in NY. Half of my directs are spread from the UK to Cali.
I should be in the office why? So people can listen to me in our new “open collaborative spaces” and I can pay ridiculous money for shitty unproductive lunches? F that. I have four screens and a fridge. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 12:36:39 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 9-5 while wearing a suit and the woman stayed home with the children is what made this country great And then they all retired and spent their days watching Matlock and eating half a cantaloupe with cottage cheese in it and smart people realized they can work from their house. Huzzah! |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 12:37:02 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not going to back to the office. and i'm not sitting in traffic daily again. Working remote i moved out into the mountains.. Still a couple hours from the city for emergencies but i wont go in again. I dont really care what the boomers want. Preach. Right there with you. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 12:38:32 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He isn't wrong though. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: 9-5 while wearing a suit and the woman stayed home with the children is what made this country great Different times. Different technology. The way we work in 2022 isn't the same as 2002 which wasn't the same as 1982, which wasn't... He isn't wrong. And he used the word made. Did make. Made in the past. This isn't the past. In the present, smart people work from home if their job allows it. Offices are ridiculous. |
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Posted: 5/20/2022 12:41:13 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not wanting to go back to the office makes sense to me when it comes to Apple... and the mostly left-leaning people that work for them out in Kalifornistan. They're scardey cats. COVID scared the shit out of them, and now many people just think they'll get sick and DIE if they end up working around other people! That's a small minority. Here's the thing... I'm no leftist, I live in a Midwestern metro with some of the lowest gas prices in America, this city is very low on the bad traffic rankings, I get to commute in relative privacy in a nice vehicle with heated leather seats listening to whatever I want, and my employer has plenty of free parking. My situation is nearly ideal, and yet, it would take a MAJOR incentive to get me to spend ~2 hours a day in rush hour traffic again. Nearly everyone with a city commute has it worse than I do, probably in more ways than one. Much worse traffic, paid parking, crappier cars, gas prices $1-2 higher per gallon, and maybe even public transportation. And you expect them to go back to commuting? Willingly? LOL |
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