User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 1:21:29 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Ben As someone with some experience, how would you suggest proceeding for a person who bought a solvent trap (without internals) and built it into a suppressor after registering it on a form 1? Would you contact the ATF and tell them that; ignore the letter; or pay to retain an attorney? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: So a guy just needs to turn over his tube and such? Theyll just leave it at that? This aint my hill yo You're at Pusan and the rest of the peninsula has been occupied by your opposition. You have no hills left to fall back to. If people keep rolling over, instead of forcing ATF to expend large amounts of resources for relatively little gain, then those rolling over aren't saving themselves. They're just in a worse position each time than before. @Ben As someone with some experience, how would you suggest proceeding for a person who bought a solvent trap (without internals) and built it into a suppressor after registering it on a form 1? Would you contact the ATF and tell them that; ignore the letter; or pay to retain an attorney? Honestly, the level of reasonableness you'll encounter varies wildly from one ATF Field Division to the next. I would at the least have scouted out an attorney. You should never try to talk or reason your way out of things. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 1:22:06 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Ben As someone with some experience, how would you suggest proceeding for a person who bought a solvent trap (without internals) and built it into a suppressor after registering it on a form 1? Would you contact the ATF and tell them that; ignore the letter; or pay to retain an attorney?  Don't Talk to the Police have your attorney talk to them. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 1:28:55 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Honestly, the level of reasonableness you'll encounter varies wildly from one ATF Field Division to the next. I would at the least have scouted out an attorney. You should never try to talk or reason your way out of things. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So a guy just needs to turn over his tube and such? Theyll just leave it at that? This aint my hill yo You're at Pusan and the rest of the peninsula has been occupied by your opposition. You have no hills left to fall back to. If people keep rolling over, instead of forcing ATF to expend large amounts of resources for relatively little gain, then those rolling over aren't saving themselves. They're just in a worse position each time than before. @Ben As someone with some experience, how would you suggest proceeding for a person who bought a solvent trap (without internals) and built it into a suppressor after registering it on a form 1? Would you contact the ATF and tell them that; ignore the letter; or pay to retain an attorney? Honestly, the level of reasonableness you'll encounter varies wildly from one ATF Field Division to the next. I would at the least have scouted out an attorney. You should never try to talk or reason your way out of things. Thanks. I already have a local law firm familiar with NFA on my radar. I guess that I will contact them. Fucking pissed that I have to do this when I was extremely careful to follow the letter of the law to a T. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 1:35:15 PM EDT
[#4]
I think you guys are nuts. I've never bought any Form 1 can anything from anybody. I used eForms once to make an SBR. The only person to post what was in his says it is eForms stuff.
Calm it down. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 1:37:57 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're at Pusan and the rest of the peninsula has been occupied by your opposition. You have no hills left to fall back to. If people keep rolling over, instead of forcing ATF to expend large amounts of resources for relatively little gain, then those rolling over aren't saving themselves. They're just in a worse position each time than before. The saddest part is he hasn't even gotten a letter or called and talked them, and he already has it boxed up and ready to turn in. Not saying people shouldn't follow the law. Just funny how fast people will turn shit over. Or whatever |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 1:49:40 PM EDT
[#6]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 1:51:44 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Posted on one of the form 1 Facebook groups. He only purchased spacers. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/53395/270269671_10159060274321996_543210770418-2220806.JPG |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 1:53:08 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Ben As someone with some experience, how would you suggest proceeding for a person who bought a solvent trap (without internals) and built it into a suppressor after registering it on a form 1? Would you contact the ATF and tell them that; ignore the letter; or pay to retain an attorney? What if you have your attorney send them a letter stating you disposed of the solvent trap since at the time is was not considered a suppressor. You later built a Form 1 can from raw materials. Is there a way the ATF can prove what material source is in your Form 1 suppressor ? I work at a machine shop, all CNC lathes, millls, EDMs and could crank out a suppressor very easy with scrap materials we have on site. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 1:55:51 PM EDT
[#9]
I wouldn't admit a goddamn thing to them. Fuck 'em. That letter is a scare tactic and there is ZERO way I would ever talk to ATF or any other federal agency without being on a recorded line (or video recording the interview, if it's in person) with an attorney present.
None. Zip. Zilch. Zero. It's the eve of the eve of Shut the Fuck Up Friday, act like it! |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 1:57:32 PM EDT
[#10]
I got a letter but don't remember buying anything from them. I don't have any suppresors other than the 4 I have stamps for. 2 YHM, an octane and an outback. I also don't have any solvent traps. Did they sell YHM QD mounts?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 2:04:04 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What if you have your attorney send them a letter stating you disposed of the solvent trap since at the time is was not considered a suppressor. You later built a Form 1 can from raw materials. Is there a way the ATF can prove what material source is in your Form 1 suppressor ? I work at a machine shop, all CNC lathes, millls, EDMs and could crank out a suppressor very easy with scrap materials we have on site. Likely they will want a sworn and notarized affidavit (on their form 3270.21) stating you don’t posses or control the DM parts. If they later find out you lied you just committed a felony. Safe to assume they have samples of DM work, unsold components and the engineering diagrams. I think they are going to say DM was in the business of manufacturing suppressors, any parts they made were automatically suppressor parts once the AFT made that designation. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 2:05:40 PM EDT
[#12]
Heard about this thread, on Reddit. ??
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 2:06:21 PM EDT
[#13]
"I just got my letter for an order from DM that I have an approved form 1 for. Weirdly my local office has no idea what this was about and asked for a copy of the letter"
From reddit |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 2:13:47 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Link? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Heard about this thread, on Reddit. ?? Link? https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/comments/rm1u6y/anyone_have_any_clue_why_the_batfe_is_sending_a/ https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/comments/rrdo7c/just_fyi_this_seems_to_be_the_atf_package_via/ https://www.reddit.com/r/NFA/comments/rqto8o/got_a_notice_from_fedex_hi_dirtxdirt_your_package/ https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/atf-just-fedexd-warning-letters-to-thousands-of-silencer-part-consumers/ |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 2:37:00 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The AFT will want a sworn and notarized affidavit (on their form 3270.21) stating you don’t posses or control the DM parts. If they later find out you lied you just committed a felony. Safe to assume they have samples of DM work, unsold components and the engineering diagrams. I think they are going to say DM was in the business of manufacturing suppressors, any parts they made were automatically suppressor parts once the AFT made that designation. That shoe string you owned 10 years ago was a MG, produce it now. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 2:45:14 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Posted on one of the form 1 Facebook groups. He only purchased spacers. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/53395/270269671_10159060274321996_543210770418-2220806.JPG |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 2:47:24 PM EDT
[#17]
Guess I threaded the needle on this one. I went to buy from DM the week they were shut down. I ended up going QuietBore instead. Looking back on it, the only difference I see is that QB requests a copy of the paid F1 and does the engraving for you. They're still in business and haven't been raided so they must be doing something differently.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 2:48:26 PM EDT
[#18]
Keith can go piss up a rope
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 3:00:26 PM EDT
[#19]
How hard would it be to simply cross reference the NFA database…
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 3:05:22 PM EDT
[#20]
They're getting really lazy when it comes to planting evidence. They used to break in and leave it out in the open, now they're just shipping stuff to your porch.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 3:14:43 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The AFT will want a sworn and notarized affidavit (on their form 3270.21) stating you don’t posses or control the DM parts. If they later find out you lied you just committed a felony. Safe to assume they have samples of DM work, unsold components and the engineering diagrams. I think they are going to say DM was in the business of manufacturing suppressors, any parts they made were automatically suppressor parts once the AFT made that designation. Who are you, how do you know that, and why are you speaking on behalf of the BATFE? |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 3:19:17 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Uhh......that second to last paragraph has a pretty large sized misstatement of the law. SOT required to build a suppressor on a form 1? LOL. I think they're saying they were suppressors before they shipped. They included everything to build one besides a hand drill, including the jigs. Sounds kinda like the P80 thing Or whatever |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 3:21:27 PM EDT
[#23]
Pepper for your angus
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 3:21:56 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryBest information in this thread. Don't be foolish. It is a federal agency. I doubt they are kidding around. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 3:22:06 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who are you, how do you know that, and why are you speaking on behalf of the BATFE? I edited my post to say it's likely they'll want that form instead of the letter from the person I quoted attorneys saying he no longer possessed it. I'm most definitely not speaking on behalf of anyone anything I post is just my point of view. I've been tracking all of this since the raid / seizure last year and have been able to put 2 and 2 together. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 5:20:27 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who are you, how do you know that, and why are you speaking on behalf of the BATFE? They basically glow In the dark. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 5:37:27 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I edited my post to say it's likely they'll want that form instead of the letter from the person I quoted attorneys saying he no longer possessed it. I'm most definitely not speaking on behalf of anyone anything I post is just my point of view. I've been tracking all of this since the raid / seizure last year and have been able to put 2 and 2 together. They can want in one hand and shit in the other. I bought a at the time legal solvent trap and disposed of it before it they changed their mind. I got a Form 1 around the same time, but haven't got time to build it yet. Prove otherwise. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 6:40:01 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I edited my post to say it's likely they'll want that form instead of the letter from the person I quoted attorneys saying he no longer possessed it. I'm most definitely not speaking on behalf of anyone anything I post is just my point of view. I've been tracking all of this since the raid / seizure last year and have been able to put 2 and 2 together. speculation at its best to almost fear trading. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 7:01:13 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: speculation at its best to almost fear trading. If everything else I posted was accurate what makes you think that specific form isn’t what they will ask for? |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 7:13:11 PM EDT
[#30]
It's odd reading people try to pretend like the AFT play by rules that work for both sides.
As much as I want to pretend a FedExed letter is the end of it.. there's probably a reason they wanted a paper trail. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 7:20:00 PM EDT
[#31]
Stamp ?
FedEx and ups have sweetheart deals with .gov accounts. Like 10% of regular account costs . We used to ship 50lb boxes cross Country overnight for like 25 bucks. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 8:42:57 PM EDT
[#32]
So, does anyone have a good referral for a competent firearms attorney?
Group buy possibilities? 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2021 9:12:34 PM EDT
[#33]
Funny I was reading this thread and others like it this morning, never got a text notification, but a letter showed up on my porch today and the wife was like "wHaT 1s Th1S?!?!“
AFAIR the only thing I ever bought from DM was a titanium YHM QD adapter, which has yet to be attached to a suppressor (too many house projects so I haven't started the form1 submission yet). Are they going to raid YHM too? This will just make me submit the form 1 sooner so I can go ahead and build that suppressor, thanks for the motivation ATF! |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2021 10:31:09 AM EDT
[#34]
Maybe it’s time to get some Senators involved again like they did with the braces? Joe Citizen follows the rules, they change rules after the game is over and they want to come after them?
If you have letter in hand wanting you to turn in legally made suppressor and a gun friendly Senator, start writing letters letting them know about more AFT over reach. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2021 10:37:39 AM EDT
[#35]
I'm getting my FedEx "package" today. Guess I'll see what the actual surprise is...
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2021 10:48:57 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Uhh......that second to last paragraph has a pretty large sized misstatement of the law. SOT required to build a suppressor on a form 1? LOL. SOT required to buy silencer parts. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2021 11:04:36 AM EDT
[#37]
On the Form1 board, a guy today called his local
Office. Bottom line was the agent had no idea what letter he was referring to. Then the agent called him back and said if you have a Form1 this can’t apply and the Detroit guy is “over his skis” then apologized for the haphazard tactic being employed by the Detroit office. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2021 11:12:09 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: SOT required to buy silencer parts. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Uhh......that second to last paragraph has a pretty large sized misstatement of the law. SOT required to build a suppressor on a form 1? LOL. SOT required to buy silencer parts. That is 100% bullshit. That indicates that non-SOTs can't possess a silencer. It doesn't mention parts, at all. Form 1 silencers are legal and Form 4 commercial silencers are legal. This letter is lying about the law. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2021 3:07:04 PM EDT
[#39]
 ATF Spam Mail was correct! |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2021 3:22:09 PM EDT
[#40]
So group huddle. What we doing
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2021 3:23:31 PM EDT
[#41]
Wife just sent me a pic of the package delivered by FedEx. I got one also. I paid my $200 permission slip. Nothing was done until I had it. Fuck em.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2021 3:28:27 PM EDT
[#42]
So far it seems like everyone who has contacted a field office has basically been told, "if you have a form 1, don't worry about it." And as a bonus, the field offices have no idea what is even going on lol
I would bet the guy who runs the office who sent this out (Detroit I think) is going to have quite a spot light on him as more and more people and field offices start asking questions. I'm tempted to reach out to my congressman to get them asking questions lol Just ignoring this is cool and all, but I think we should push back however we can. People who haven't done anything wrong, spent hundreds or thousands of dollars in taxes doing things the right way, should not be getting fucked with at all. This whole thing is bullshit. Just a scare tactic to get people to turn shit in whether its legally owned or not. If the ATF ever wonders why no gun owner trusts them, this letter is a perfect example. The content of it isn't even accurate for most DM customers situation as most of us indeed have approved form 1's and silencers registered to us. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2021 3:34:38 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So group huddle. What we doing |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2021 3:38:25 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, this. What are we doing? Use the letter to wipe our asses? Then start another thread. From “safe” thread to poop thread, we can cover it it all. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2021 3:40:12 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, this. What are we doing? According to the last paragraph, if you didn't buy anything that meets the federal definition of a silencer then it looks like you don't have to do anything. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2021 3:42:47 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, this. What are we doing? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: So group huddle. What we doing I'm not doing anything. I have approved form 1's for all my stuff, so not worried about it. If I had DM products (tubes, end caps, etc... not stuff like flash hiders they sold) that I never got around to building into a form 1 suppressor, I'd probably just get rid of them. Once I started building form 1 cans I pretty much made it a point to not keep anything around that could even be remotely called spare parts or anything like that.. that's always been a no go. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2021 3:49:53 PM EDT
[#47]
Dear Agent Smith, I don't have a letter yet but I purchased some spacers, an adapter, and an (undrilled) end cap. After cross-referencing my name to the name of my trust and confirming my form 1, please give me a call if you want to discuss further.
Sincerely yours, Whoanelly There. I'm done. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2021 4:02:30 PM EDT
[#48]
I asked White Trash tactical: How are your kits different than Diversified Machine that was seized by ATF and now targeting their customers?
Answer: For one we don't buy anything from china like they were doing. That wasn't what I was asking. I just got my F1 approved email today, 14 days. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2021 4:06:01 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I asked White Trash tactical: How are your kits different than Diversified Machine that was seized by ATF and now targeting their customers? Answer: For one we don't buy anything from china like they were doing. That wasn't what I was asking. I just got my F1 approved email today, 14 days. The scuttlebutt is that DM was selling monocores, and that was their flight too close to the sun. I could also see the aft being doubly butthurt if they were importing those monocores for resale.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2021 4:09:00 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I asked White Trash tactical: How are your kits different than Diversified Machine that was seized by ATF and now targeting their customers? Answer: For one we don't buy anything from china like they were doing. That wasn't what I was asking. I just got my F1 approved email today, 14 days. lol DM was a machine shop that built all of their own stuff. White Trash is just taking a pot shot at a competitor that got shut down. At some point most of these companies release a product that "goes a little too far" and the ATF crushed them for it. For DM I think it was the monocore stuff they started selling. Anything that looks like a monocore always gets the ATFs attention. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
Attached File