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Posted: 7/7/2020 4:34:55 PM EDT
New photos of the production models of the weapons vying for the chance to replace the M4 and M249 have been released.
 As well as the next generation fire control system.  Despite covid-19 the program continues on unabated. |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 4:37:36 PM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 7/7/2020 4:38:19 PM EDT
[#2]
Lol
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Posted: 7/7/2020 4:41:30 PM EDT
[#3]
Got dam Joglee thread.
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Posted: 7/7/2020 4:42:43 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Got dam Joglee thread. Saw the title and knew who it was |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 4:43:02 PM EDT
[#5]
 
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Posted: 7/7/2020 4:43:42 PM EDT
[#6]
Sig's lessons learned in the capture of MHS should give them an edge.
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Posted: 7/7/2020 4:44:26 PM EDT
[#7]
Not a lot of out Of the box thinking with this stuff. Pretty much just rebatreled shit for a new caliber. We aren’t going to go to a bull pup andvSIG isn’t doing anything innovative. It’s time we did away with buffer tubes and get a truly folding stock weapon system like what’s on the Scar Or SIG 553 .
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Posted: 7/7/2020 4:45:33 PM EDT
[#8]
So what happens to all the old M249s/M4s once they're replaced? They'll just scrap them?
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Posted: 7/7/2020 4:45:55 PM EDT
[#9]
No telescoping cartridge, no want.
  
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Posted: 7/7/2020 4:46:31 PM EDT
[#10]
Put the Vortex aimbot optic on the Textron LMG, use it to replace SAWs/DMRs/GPMGs, and leave the M4 alone.
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Posted: 7/7/2020 4:47:33 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sig's lessons learned in the capture of MHS should give them an edge. I work for a subcontractor for one of those companies and the primary is an absolute shitshow. Much as Sig annoys me I hope they win 
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Posted: 7/7/2020 4:47:36 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not a lot of out Of the box thinking with this stuff. Pretty much just rebatreled shit for a new caliber. Are there photos of the internals/operating systems? |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 4:48:17 PM EDT
[#13]
I liked the KAC version better anyway
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Posted: 7/7/2020 4:49:13 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not a lot of out Of the box thinking with this stuff. Pretty much just rebatreled shit for a new caliber. We aren’t going to go to a bull pup andvSIG isn’t doing anything innovative. It’s time we did away with buffer tubes and get a truly folding stock weapon system like what’s on the Scar Or SIG 553 . The Sig doesn't use a buffer tube and it's foldable on the carbine. |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 4:50:18 PM EDT
[#15]
The LOP on the Sig belt gun is ridiculously short. Even extended, it's got to be way short.
Tony |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 4:50:44 PM EDT
[#16]
Interesting that they all copied Vortex’s color from their Razor line. I hope @VortexSam has a patent on it!
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Posted: 7/7/2020 4:50:58 PM EDT
[#17]
lol @ that stock height on the LMGs. I guess they don't intend anybody to shoot it while wearing helmet mounted NODs or a gas mask. That's some stupidly high cheek weld.
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Posted: 7/7/2020 4:51:11 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Put the Vortex aimbot optic on the Textron LMG, use it to replace SAWs/DMRs/GPMGs, and leave the M4 alone. Re-barrel those M4's to 6mm ARC and call it a day. |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 4:55:19 PM EDT
[#19]
Close up of the Textron offering:
 SIG looks like the only weapon designed by people who've used guns. Not sure what is going on with the LMG stock, but the older submissions had a more normal looking stock. |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 4:59:47 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Close up of the Textron offering: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/PA090035.jpg SIG looks like the only weapon designed by people who've used guns. Not sure what is going on with the LMG stock, but the older submissions had a more normal looking stock. The Textron rifle is filler content. A non-bullpup rising block. IIRC, they were thinking Ares AIWS until cockblocked by the req for a mag-fed rifle. |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 5:00:39 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOh hell yes. GWOT would have been over in a week. Or so I hear. |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 5:01:26 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Close up of the Textron offering: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/PA090035.jpg SIG looks like the only weapon designed by people who've used guns. Not sure what is going on with the LMG stock, but the older submissions had a more normal looking stock. That's the old design that was close too the M4. The new design is in the OP. |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 5:02:30 PM EDT
[#23]
SIG is least awful but looks like NERF
GD looks like that stupid Boring Co weed burner Musk sells Textron looks like something cooked up by an early Soviet R&D shop Also... SIG; modern comfort grip GD; A2 grip (works, but passe) Textron; is that an MP5 grip profile?  Yeah, you can really tell which group actually shoots |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 5:03:49 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: SIG is least awful but looks like NERF GD looks like that stupid Boring Co weed burner Musk sells Textron looks like something cooked up by an early Soviet R&D shop And all the rifles are using 20 round mags. |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 5:05:04 PM EDT
[#25]
I'll be shocked if they actually replace anything
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Posted: 7/7/2020 5:06:02 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Got dam Joglee thread.
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Posted: 7/7/2020 5:09:38 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And all the rifles are using 20 round mags. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: SIG is least awful but looks like NERF GD looks like that stupid Boring Co weed burner Musk sells Textron looks like something cooked up by an early Soviet R&D shop And all the rifles are using 20 round mags. I'll allow it, they're shooting 6mm stuff in semi-auto with an eye for accuracy I personally think 24 is the ideal number, seeing as 6mm is halfway between 30x of .22 and 20x of .30 |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 5:10:29 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not a lot of out Of the box thinking with this stuff. Pretty much just rebatreled shit for a new caliber. We aren’t going to go to a bull pup andvSIG isn’t doing anything innovative. It’s time we did away with buffer tubes and get a truly folding stock weapon system like what’s on the Scar Or SIG 553 . Sig may have leave a lot to be desired in the execution, but they are pushing innovation in recent years. More than a lot of companies are even attempting. The MCX was an innovative design in that it took what modern users were asking for, and made that work in something that kept it familiar with the AR that has dominated the market. This NGSW thing is basically the MCX scaled up to the round the Army demanded. It’s a pretty pointless endeavor overall, but they didn’t set the parameters. The stock is folding or collapsing, depending on the configuration. Not that it matters too much, that’s not really as important as people make it out to be. The SCAR had an issue with that as well, stocks breaking, since a hinge is a potential weak point in any design. |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 5:13:55 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So what happens to all the old M249s/M4s once they're replaced? They'll just scrap them? Same thing that happened to the A1s and A2s Third world countries will benefit Some will continue to see service in the Reserve components for years to come |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 5:13:56 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Sig doesn't use a buffer tube and it's foldable on the carbine. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Not a lot of out Of the box thinking with this stuff. Pretty much just rebatreled shit for a new caliber. We aren’t going to go to a bull pup andvSIG isn’t doing anything innovative. It’s time we did away with buffer tubes and get a truly folding stock weapon system like what’s on the Scar Or SIG 553 . The Sig doesn't use a buffer tube and it's foldable on the carbine. Regardless. Doesn’t look like any innovation is going on, just a rebarreling to a marginally better round. Mght be good for a SAW weapon but not necessary on a carbine. |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 5:15:53 PM EDT
[#31]
Almost looks like there is an airburst grenade component that this rifle can attach to? Are they resurrecting the XM29 airburst grenade part?
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Posted: 7/7/2020 5:16:00 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryLol Have the environment wackos said anything? |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 5:20:08 PM EDT
[#33]
The whole thing is such a stupid waste. It’s good that industry innovation and forward progress are being considered in some aspects but this NGSW shit really doesn’t make any significant difference.
Oh well. It would appear that joglee and the competitors are the only ones still interested in the program so we’re lucky he keeps us updated. |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 5:20:35 PM EDT
[#34]
High pressure ammo, plastic cases, OWL tracers and aimbot optics are all steps forward and make guns better at a distance past what individual riflemen do most of the time.
Where's the innovation for 100m? Where are the 4.9mm, 100kpsi, 6 gram cartridges in 50rnd mags for 5lb 1200rpm PDW-carbines? NGSW may outshoot a AK at 600m, but it's probably inferior at 50m. |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 5:36:46 PM EDT
[#35]
The stocks on the ARs look like shit, literally just a block. lol I like the look of the Sig's AR and Textron's R.
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Posted: 7/7/2020 5:42:14 PM EDT
[#36]
Is that ejection port on the Textron not smashing brass right into your support hand if you happen to grab it up close? |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 5:43:52 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'll allow it, they're shooting 6mm stuff in semi-auto with an eye for accuracy I personally think 24 is the ideal number, seeing as 6mm is halfway between 30x of .22 and 20x of .30 Most engagements take place less than 150 yards away. If troops have had trouble since the beginning of time with rifles to hit anything past 150 yards in combat conditions. Giving them a heavier recoiling and shorter magazine weapon is not going to make things any better. The M16A2 musket was designed with an eye for accuracy too. It was fucking dumb as hell, and quickly abandoned by the Army. |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 5:49:55 PM EDT
[#38]
Damn, did Jesse James do the suppressors for GD?
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Posted: 7/7/2020 5:52:31 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: High pressure ammo, plastic cases, OWL tracers and aimbot optics are all steps forward and make guns better at a distance past what individual riflemen do most of the time. Where's the innovation for 100m? Where are the 4.9mm, 100kpsi, 6 gram cartridges in 50rnd mags for 5lb 1200rpm PDW-carbines? NGSW may outshoot a AK at 600m, but it's probably inferior at 50m. Nice post! I can see the need for a better belt-fed than the M249, and for a DMR that outperforms 7.62. I can’t see this work as an improvement on carbines. |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 5:55:27 PM EDT
[#40]
We should replace them with M4s and M249s
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Posted: 7/7/2020 6:16:56 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is that ejection port on the Textron not smashing brass right into your support hand if you happen to grab it up close? Gotta learn to shoot right handed. Lefties need not apply, also its polymer cased. |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 6:28:34 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lol @ that stock height on the LMGs. I guess they don't intend anybody to shoot it while wearing helmet mounted NODs or a gas mask. That's some stupidly high cheek weld. They intend the user to be using optics and inline is much better for recoil control. I honestly think the optic and machine guns have a great chance at adoption, being able to replace all 7.62 machine guns and 5.56 saws with a lighter and much better performing round is a big step forward. |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 6:30:11 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gotta learn to shoot right handed. Lefties need not apply, also its polymer cased. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is that ejection port on the Textron not smashing brass right into your support hand if you happen to grab it up close? Gotta learn to shoot right handed. Lefties need not apply, also its polymer cased. Not sure how to phrase that... empties?? Ejecting polymers doesn’t sound right. Look at the ejection port though. That’s some prime real estate for holding the gun unless I’m missing something. |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 6:35:32 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most engagements take place less than 150 yards away. If troops have had trouble since the beginning of time with rifles to hit anything past 150 yards in combat conditions. Giving them a heavier recoiling and shorter magazine weapon is not going to make things any better. The M16A2 musket was designed with an eye for accuracy too. It was fucking dumb as hell, and quickly abandoned by the Army. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'll allow it, they're shooting 6mm stuff in semi-auto with an eye for accuracy I personally think 24 is the ideal number, seeing as 6mm is halfway between 30x of .22 and 20x of .30 Most engagements take place less than 150 yards away. If troops have had trouble since the beginning of time with rifles to hit anything past 150 yards in combat conditions. Giving them a heavier recoiling and shorter magazine weapon is not going to make things any better. The M16A2 musket was designed with an eye for accuracy too. It was fucking dumb as hell, and quickly abandoned by the Army. I''m a dirty civvy but my understanding of modern fire and maneuver warfare was one element fixes the enemy so another can close with and destroy. Having a heavier rifle with less capacity seems to be counter productive. Or updated COIN we been doing, the force fixes with fire to call in ordnance but same issues. |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 6:36:26 PM EDT
[#45]
I handled the Sig offerings at SHOT, and they weren't half bad, especially the scaled-up MCX.
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Posted: 7/7/2020 6:36:32 PM EDT
[#46]
More interested in learning about the new optics being designed by Vortex and L3... Out of everything, those and maybe Sig’s new MG will end up seeing use.
Otherwise, the M4 isn’t going anywhere. |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 6:38:42 PM EDT
[#47]
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Posted: 7/7/2020 6:41:25 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So what happens to all the old M249s/M4s once they're replaced? They'll just scrap them? 5.56 isn’t going away anytime soon. If the new 6.8 magnum is everything we’ve been promised, it will be punishing shoulders and wearing out barrels at an alarming rate until the bugs are worked out (years at least). |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 6:42:24 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most engagements take place less than 150 yards away. If troops have had trouble since the beginning of time with rifles to hit anything past 150 yards in combat conditions. Giving them a heavier recoiling and shorter magazine weapon is not going to make things any better. The M16A2 musket was designed with an eye for accuracy too. It was fucking dumb as hell, and quickly abandoned by the Army. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'll allow it, they're shooting 6mm stuff in semi-auto with an eye for accuracy I personally think 24 is the ideal number, seeing as 6mm is halfway between 30x of .22 and 20x of .30 Most engagements take place less than 150 yards away. If troops have had trouble since the beginning of time with rifles to hit anything past 150 yards in combat conditions. Giving them a heavier recoiling and shorter magazine weapon is not going to make things any better. The M16A2 musket was designed with an eye for accuracy too. It was fucking dumb as hell, and quickly abandoned by the Army. Quickly? Took over twenty years, and some units still have them. M16A1 was adopted in 1964, M16A2 in 1983, the M4 didn't really start seeing issue outside of SOF and some infantry units until the late '90's. |
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Posted: 7/7/2020 6:46:36 PM EDT
[#50]
6.5 Lightmachinegun maybe KACs version.
The rest, throw in the trash. |
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