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Posted: 8/1/2018 3:35:50 PM EDT
Link Posted: 8/1/2018 4:32:46 PM EDT
[#1]
Time to go clandy.
Link Posted: 8/1/2018 7:30:50 PM EDT
[#2]
That this needs to be addressed is sad.
Link Posted: 8/1/2018 7:54:54 PM EDT
[#3]
Link Posted: 8/1/2018 9:49:10 PM EDT
[#4]
Wow. I think I will need time to sort out just exactly how I feel about this.
Link Posted: 8/5/2018 8:50:55 PM EDT
[#5]
I have always wondered what we would do.  The old guys are not prepared to handle this, nor would any of them even get it.
Lets say a female to male tranny comes in to join.. she has been on testosterone for 5 years and has her breasts removed and has hair all over and her name is Robert. nobody would ever know.

a male to female one would be obvious.  you cant hide those fake breasts.
Link Posted: 8/5/2018 10:44:01 PM EDT
[#6]
I don't care how they identify. What I care about is that they be of like mind, and are in search of self improvement.

I wouldn't blackball a transgender based solely on there gender identity.
Link Posted: 8/6/2018 12:16:42 AM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:
I don't care how they identify. What I care about is that they be of like mind, and are in search of self improvement.

I wouldn't blackball a transgender based solely on there gender identity.
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Insanity.
Link Posted: 8/6/2018 10:43:20 AM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:
I don't care how they identify. What I care about is that they be of like mind, and are in search of self improvement.

I wouldn't blackball a transgender based solely on there gender identity.
View Quote
The point is... they are not of like mind... unless you are one.
Link Posted: 8/6/2018 7:42:59 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:

The point is... they are not of like mind... unless you are one.
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Because I'm tolerant doesn't mean I am one.  That's almost as absurd as the extreme views of our WM towards those who support the president.

Now, there is a part of our obligations that conflicts with my previous statement since I tend to think that gender identity is a mental issue. (Being careful not to use the term mental disorder here)

...something about a madman or a fool...

Now, for "the rest of the story" I have a 24 year old daughter, that identifies as a male. She has for about 6 years now. I'm still not comfortable with it, and don't understand what caused the change from being a beautiful young lady totally into guys, to seemingly overnight, going off the deep end. She's still my daughter, I don't love her any less, and I have given up trying to understand why. I focus on how she treats other people, her work ethic, and how she conducts herself. Her gender identity is her demon to wrestle, I do know that she's been happier in the last four years, and more able to cope with her depression than she was growing up, and she's not on any depression meds any more.
She was raised in a good Christian home, and knows that when her days on earth are done she will be judged by god.

She has no interest in becoming a Mason FWIW
Link Posted: 8/13/2018 10:35:56 PM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:
Because I'm tolerant doesn't mean I am one.  That's almost as absurd as the extreme views of our WM towards those who support the president.

Now, there is a part of our obligations that conflicts with my previous statement since I tend to think that gender identity is a mental issue. (Being careful not to use the term mental disorder here)

...something about a madman or a fool...

Now, for "the rest of the story" I have a 24 year old daughter, that identifies as a male. She has for about 6 years now. I'm still not comfortable with it, and don't understand what caused the change from being a beautiful young lady totally into guys, to seemingly overnight, going off the deep end. She's still my daughter, I don't love her any less, and I have given up trying to understand why. I focus on how she treats other people, her work ethic, and how she conducts herself. Her gender identity is her demon to wrestle, I do know that she's been happier in the last four years, and more able to cope with her depression than she was growing up, and she's not on any depression meds any more.
She was raised in a good Christian home, and knows that when her days on earth are done she will be judged by god.

She has no interest in becoming a Mason FWIW
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Quoted:
Quoted:

The point is... they are not of like mind... unless you are one.
Because I'm tolerant doesn't mean I am one.  That's almost as absurd as the extreme views of our WM towards those who support the president.

Now, there is a part of our obligations that conflicts with my previous statement since I tend to think that gender identity is a mental issue. (Being careful not to use the term mental disorder here)

...something about a madman or a fool...

Now, for "the rest of the story" I have a 24 year old daughter, that identifies as a male. She has for about 6 years now. I'm still not comfortable with it, and don't understand what caused the change from being a beautiful young lady totally into guys, to seemingly overnight, going off the deep end. She's still my daughter, I don't love her any less, and I have given up trying to understand why. I focus on how she treats other people, her work ethic, and how she conducts herself. Her gender identity is her demon to wrestle, I do know that she's been happier in the last four years, and more able to cope with her depression than she was growing up, and she's not on any depression meds any more.
She was raised in a good Christian home, and knows that when her days on earth are done she will be judged by god.

She has no interest in becoming a Mason FWIW
Respectively and with total compassion I ask you have you tried to get your child professional help? You said her behavior just changed? God forbid this is the case with your daughter but I knew a girl who had gender identity issues after being raped. Something changed in your daughter.
Link Posted: 8/14/2018 10:02:12 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:

Respectively and with total compassion I ask you have you tried to get your child professional help? You said her behavior just changed? God forbid this is the case with your daughter but I knew a girl who had gender identity issues after being raped. Something changed in your daughter.
View Quote
She went through a couple years of counseling, with a couple of different head shrinkers. But with the HIPA laws and doctor-patient confidentiality, nothing was ever shared with us other than that she was going. We even went through her journals when she ran away and didn't find anything unusual or traumatic in her writings.
Aside from a diagnosis of separation anxiety at the beginning of each school year, and seasonal depression that she also saw a shrink for, the most traumatic thing in her life has been the passing of grandparents.
Link Posted: 8/15/2018 4:20:51 PM EDT
[#12]
Link Posted: 10/17/2018 12:46:59 PM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:
my opinion and mine alone here...

transgenderism is a mental illness. that is in direct violation of one of our obligations. If the man is obligated as a MM then so be it, he is already vetted and raised. This should be grounds for stopping advancement of candidates and for rejection of petitions. A female dressed up as a male simply does not meet our requirements of "being a male. freeborn and of good report". Having parts cut off or added does not change your gender it simply means you have mutilated yourself to promote a false self image.

don't get me wrong here, i harbor them no ill will and everyone should live the life they want. But we reject men daily based on many less significant criteria.
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That's about where I'm at.

No ill will toward anyone. Wouldn't ever be rude or hostile toward a transgender person unless they did something that would cause me to be rude or hostile to anyone, would have nothing to do with their gender identity.

That said, the Masons are a men's club. Surgery does not make you a man. That simple.  Go in peace and live your life. You'll get no grief from me. But I won't vote to make you a Mason.
Link Posted: 10/17/2018 6:49:10 PM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:
That's about where I'm at.

No ill will toward anyone. Wouldn't ever be rude or hostile toward a transgender person unless they did something that would cause me to be rude or hostile to anyone, would have nothing to do with their gender identity.

That said, the Masons are a men's club. Surgery does not make you a man. That simple.  Go in peace and live your life. You'll get no grief from me. But I won't vote to make you a Mason.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
my opinion and mine alone here...

transgenderism is a mental illness. that is in direct violation of one of our obligations. If the man is obligated as a MM then so be it, he is already vetted and raised. This should be grounds for stopping advancement of candidates and for rejection of petitions. A female dressed up as a male simply does not meet our requirements of "being a male. freeborn and of good report". Having parts cut off or added does not change your gender it simply means you have mutilated yourself to promote a false self image.

don't get me wrong here, i harbor them no ill will and everyone should live the life they want. But we reject men daily based on many less significant criteria.
That's about where I'm at.

No ill will toward anyone. Wouldn't ever be rude or hostile toward a transgender person unless they did something that would cause me to be rude or hostile to anyone, would have nothing to do with their gender identity.

That said, the Masons are a men's club. Surgery does not make you a man. That simple.  Go in peace and live your life. You'll get no grief from me. But I won't vote to make you a Mason.
you wont know if a female to male transsexual joins. There are some really masculine females and if they take their shirt off you would see a hairy muscular  chest. We dont check a persons genitals.

I brought this up a couple of meetings ago, afterwards.  The old guys were like noooooooooo waaaaayyyyyyyy.
On the other hand, what if a male to female transsexual joins or a crossdresser... it has a penis.  ???
Link Posted: 10/17/2018 7:05:05 PM EDT
[#15]
Link Posted: 10/17/2018 7:31:19 PM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
I wouldn't blackball a transgender based solely on there gender identity.
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I would, since they are Female.
Link Posted: 10/17/2018 7:41:40 PM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:
I would, since they are Female.
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Quoted:
I wouldn't blackball a transgender based solely on there gender identity.
I would, since they are Female.
not all of them.
Link Posted: 10/17/2018 11:51:54 PM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:
you wont know if a female to male transsexual joins. There are some really masculine females and if they take their shirt off you would see a hairy muscular  chest. We dont check a persons genitals.

I brought this up a couple of meetings ago, afterwards.  The old guys were like noooooooooo waaaaayyyyyyyy.
On the other hand, what if a male to female transsexual joins or a crossdresser... it has a penis.  ???
View Quote View All Quotes
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
my opinion and mine alone here...

transgenderism is a mental illness. that is in direct violation of one of our obligations. If the man is obligated as a MM then so be it, he is already vetted and raised. This should be grounds for stopping advancement of candidates and for rejection of petitions. A female dressed up as a male simply does not meet our requirements of "being a male. freeborn and of good report". Having parts cut off or added does not change your gender it simply means you have mutilated yourself to promote a false self image.

don't get me wrong here, i harbor them no ill will and everyone should live the life they want. But we reject men daily based on many less significant criteria.
That's about where I'm at.

No ill will toward anyone. Wouldn't ever be rude or hostile toward a transgender person unless they did something that would cause me to be rude or hostile to anyone, would have nothing to do with their gender identity.

That said, the Masons are a men's club. Surgery does not make you a man. That simple.  Go in peace and live your life. You'll get no grief from me. But I won't vote to make you a Mason.
you wont know if a female to male transsexual joins. There are some really masculine females and if they take their shirt off you would see a hairy muscular  chest. We dont check a persons genitals.

I brought this up a couple of meetings ago, afterwards.  The old guys were like noooooooooo waaaaayyyyyyyy.
On the other hand, what if a male to female transsexual joins or a crossdresser... it has a penis.  ???
I have seen some very passable F2M transgenders. That is true.

I suppose by my own rule someone born a man would be a possible candidate.
Link Posted: 10/18/2018 7:36:21 AM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:

I have seen some very passable F2M transgenders. That is true.

I suppose by my own rule someone born a man would be a possible candidate.
View Quote
Sure, but what exactly are the specific requirements?  Do we take mental illness into consideration?  Behavior?
Link Posted: 10/18/2018 9:19:00 AM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
my opinion and mine alone here...

transgenderism is a mental illness. that is in direct violation of one of our obligations. If the man is obligated as a MM then so be it, he is already vetted and raised. This should be grounds for stopping advancement of candidates and for rejection of petitions. A female dressed up as a male simply does not meet our requirements of "being a male. freeborn and of good report". Having parts cut off or added does not change your gender it simply means you have mutilated yourself to promote a false self image.

don't get me wrong here, i harbor them no ill will and everyone should live the life they want. But we reject men daily based on many less significant criteria.
View Quote
This.  Tranny falls under the category of madman.
Link Posted: 10/18/2018 11:23:30 AM EDT
[#21]
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Quoted:
This.  Tranny falls under the category of madman.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
my opinion and mine alone here...

transgenderism is a mental illness. that is in direct violation of one of our obligations. If the man is obligated as a MM then so be it, he is already vetted and raised. This should be grounds for stopping advancement of candidates and for rejection of petitions. A female dressed up as a male simply does not meet our requirements of "being a male. freeborn and of good report". Having parts cut off or added does not change your gender it simply means you have mutilated yourself to promote a false self image.

don't get me wrong here, i harbor them no ill will and everyone should live the life they want. But we reject men daily based on many less significant criteria.
This.  Tranny falls under the category of madman.
Yep. TBS hit the nail on the head.

I have no issues with them, but in my heart I believe they have mental issues that led them to choose that lifestyle.

I couldn't make one a Mason.
Link Posted: 10/18/2018 4:53:36 PM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:
Sure, but what exactly are the specific requirements?  Do we take mental illness into consideration?  Behavior?
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Quoted:
Quoted:

I have seen some very passable F2M transgenders. That is true.

I suppose by my own rule someone born a man would be a possible candidate.
Sure, but what exactly are the specific requirements?  Do we take mental illness into consideration?  Behavior?
My point is, who's gonna know?  they could very well get right in.
Link Posted: 10/18/2018 7:59:15 PM EDT
[#23]
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Quoted:
My point is, who's gonna know?  they could very well get right in.
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I would hope that the investigation committee did their due diligence.
Link Posted: 10/18/2018 8:36:58 PM EDT
[#24]
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Quoted:
I would hope that the investigation committee did their due diligence.
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Quoted:
My point is, who's gonna know?  they could very well get right in.
I would hope that the investigation committee did their due diligence.
That's the point. nobody's checking..

When's the last time you went on an investigation and asked they  were a transsexual
Link Posted: 10/19/2018 7:41:17 AM EDT
[#25]
Link Posted: 10/19/2018 7:50:30 AM EDT
[#26]
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Quoted:
it's not necessary the question be asked if a proper investigation is done.
assuming a background check is done that will likely come out. a simple pipl report would likely show multiple names tied to that individual and any adult dealings under the other gender name would be pretty obvious. Of course this assumes a proper investigation, many lodges barely investigate beyond the initial petition which is something that really needs to change. i bounced an individual a few years ago that was a pretty blatant racist and disability fraud a few years ago. he was a popular cousin of another brother and no one new his history. took me 20 min on google to find all kinds of garbage on him. the other 2 investigators more or less rubber stamped him and were shocked when i gave my report.
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Quoted:

That's the point. nobody's checking..

When's the last time you went on an investigation and asked they  were a transsexual
it's not necessary the question be asked if a proper investigation is done.
assuming a background check is done that will likely come out. a simple pipl report would likely show multiple names tied to that individual and any adult dealings under the other gender name would be pretty obvious. Of course this assumes a proper investigation, many lodges barely investigate beyond the initial petition which is something that really needs to change. i bounced an individual a few years ago that was a pretty blatant racist and disability fraud a few years ago. he was a popular cousin of another brother and no one new his history. took me 20 min on google to find all kinds of garbage on him. the other 2 investigators more or less rubber stamped him and were shocked when i gave my report.
I get you bro.

What if their name was Leslie or Lynn?
Link Posted: 10/19/2018 10:27:18 AM EDT
[#27]
Link Posted: 10/19/2018 11:10:19 AM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
it's not necessary the question be asked if a proper investigation is done.
assuming a background check is done that will likely come out. a simple pipl report would likely show multiple names tied to that individual and any adult dealings under the other gender name would be pretty obvious. Of course this assumes a proper investigation, many lodges barely investigate beyond the initial petition which is something that really needs to change. i bounced an individual a few years ago that was a pretty blatant racist and disability fraud a few years ago. he was a popular cousin of another brother and no one new his history. took me 20 min on google to find all kinds of garbage on him. the other 2 investigators more or less rubber stamped him and were shocked when i gave my report.
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This is what I was referring to regarding the investigation process. Name changes,  crazy Facebook drama, and of course a Mason had to sign their petition.
Link Posted: 1/2/2019 6:44:18 PM EDT
[#29]
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Quoted:
my opinion and mine alone here...

transgenderism is a mental illness. that is in direct violation of one of our obligations. If the man is obligated as a MM then so be it, he is already vetted and raised. This should be grounds for stopping advancement of candidates and for rejection of petitions. A female dressed up as a male simply does not meet our requirements of "being a male. freeborn and of good report". Having parts cut off or added does not change your gender it simply means you have mutilated yourself to promote a false self image.

don't get me wrong here, i harbor them no ill will and everyone should live the life they want. But we reject men daily based on many less significant criteria.
View Quote
This post nailed it
Link Posted: 1/5/2019 1:45:38 AM EDT
[#30]
Regardless of our opinions on it, you can see why the UGLE put this out..., in the UK, speaking ill of trans people is a hate crime, much less saying that they can't be in your organization.

"the following grounds would constitute unlawful discrimination"

IMO, it appears that the UGLE is doing their best to navigate troubled waters.
Link Posted: 1/5/2019 12:41:05 PM EDT
[#31]
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