User Panel
Posted: 8/1/2018 3:35:50 PM EDT
https://www.ugle.org.uk/gender-reassignment-policy
Gender Reassignment Policy
1. SCOPE This policy sets out UGLE’s approach to the issues raised for Freemasonry by gender reassignment. It is intended to help guide Lodges in their decision making. It does not impose binding rules and although it gives some general guidance on discrimination law it does not constitute legal advice. This Policy does not attempt to address all the issues relating to gender which may arise as gender reassignment and gender transition become more prevalent in a changing society and when they do they will need to be addressed in accordance with Masonic principles of lawfulness, kindness and tolerance. 2. GENERAL It is important that any situation involving gender reassignment of a Freemason is treated with the utmost compassion and sensitivity and that the individual is supported throughout the process. If a Freemason who is a member of UGLE wishes to change gender and become a woman we expect that the Freemason would receive the full support of their brethren. The privacy of the individual should be respected and there will normally be no requirement to inform the applicable Metropolitan, Provincial or District Grand Secretary or the Grand Secretary about this change. 3. APPLICATIONS FOR ADMISSION A candidate for admission to Freemasonry under the jurisdiction of UGLE must be a man. Should a person who has undergone gender reassignment and has become a man apply to become a Freemason then his application must be processed in the same way as for any other male candidate. Any qualified candidate for admission may be proposed for membership of a private lodge in accordance with the provisions in the Rules contained in the Book of Constitutions. No candidate should be subjected to questions about their gender which could make them feel uncomfortable. 4. CONTINUED MEMBERSHIP A Freemason who after initiation ceases to be a man does not cease to be a Freemason. We expect that Freemasons will act with compassion and sensitivity towards their fellow Freemasons. We hope that no Freemason would engage in unwanted conduct relating to another Freemason’s actual or perceived gender reassigment or gender transition. Such conduct would not only be unmasonic but is also unlawful if it has the purpose or effect of violating the dignity of, or creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for, the victim. 5. RESIGNATION FROM THE CRAFT A Freemason who becomes a woman is not required to resign from the Craft. If a person resigns from the Craft then they and their dependants might no longer be eligible for some of the benefits provided by the Masonic charities now or in the future. 6. EXCLUSION FROM A LODGE A Lodge may vote to exclude any member for sufficient cause. The following grounds would constitute unlawful discrimination and so could never constitute sufficient cause: a. The fact that a member has legally become a woman; b. A mistaken belief that a member has legally become a woman; c. The fact that a member is in the process of transition from male to female; or d. A mistaken belief that a member is in the process of transitioning from male to female. Similarly a Lodge must not attempt to persuade a member to resign from the Lodge or discriminate against a member based on any of these grounds. A Lodge must not at any time require a member to prove that they are legally a man. 7. AMENDMENT The law and what is considered best practice in this area are developing rapidly. This policy may be amended from time to time and so please ensure that you are referring to the latest version. Date adopted: 17 July 2018 View Quote |
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Wow. I think I will need time to sort out just exactly how I feel about this.
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I have always wondered what we would do. The old guys are not prepared to handle this, nor would any of them even get it.
Lets say a female to male tranny comes in to join.. she has been on testosterone for 5 years and has her breasts removed and has hair all over and her name is Robert. nobody would ever know. a male to female one would be obvious. you cant hide those fake breasts. |
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I don't care how they identify. What I care about is that they be of like mind, and are in search of self improvement.
I wouldn't blackball a transgender based solely on there gender identity. |
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The point is... they are not of like mind... unless you are one. View Quote Now, there is a part of our obligations that conflicts with my previous statement since I tend to think that gender identity is a mental issue. (Being careful not to use the term mental disorder here) ...something about a madman or a fool... Now, for "the rest of the story" I have a 24 year old daughter, that identifies as a male. She has for about 6 years now. I'm still not comfortable with it, and don't understand what caused the change from being a beautiful young lady totally into guys, to seemingly overnight, going off the deep end. She's still my daughter, I don't love her any less, and I have given up trying to understand why. I focus on how she treats other people, her work ethic, and how she conducts herself. Her gender identity is her demon to wrestle, I do know that she's been happier in the last four years, and more able to cope with her depression than she was growing up, and she's not on any depression meds any more. She was raised in a good Christian home, and knows that when her days on earth are done she will be judged by god. She has no interest in becoming a Mason FWIW |
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Because I'm tolerant doesn't mean I am one. That's almost as absurd as the extreme views of our WM towards those who support the president. Now, there is a part of our obligations that conflicts with my previous statement since I tend to think that gender identity is a mental issue. (Being careful not to use the term mental disorder here) ...something about a madman or a fool... Now, for "the rest of the story" I have a 24 year old daughter, that identifies as a male. She has for about 6 years now. I'm still not comfortable with it, and don't understand what caused the change from being a beautiful young lady totally into guys, to seemingly overnight, going off the deep end. She's still my daughter, I don't love her any less, and I have given up trying to understand why. I focus on how she treats other people, her work ethic, and how she conducts herself. Her gender identity is her demon to wrestle, I do know that she's been happier in the last four years, and more able to cope with her depression than she was growing up, and she's not on any depression meds any more. She was raised in a good Christian home, and knows that when her days on earth are done she will be judged by god. She has no interest in becoming a Mason FWIW View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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The point is... they are not of like mind... unless you are one. Now, there is a part of our obligations that conflicts with my previous statement since I tend to think that gender identity is a mental issue. (Being careful not to use the term mental disorder here) ...something about a madman or a fool... Now, for "the rest of the story" I have a 24 year old daughter, that identifies as a male. She has for about 6 years now. I'm still not comfortable with it, and don't understand what caused the change from being a beautiful young lady totally into guys, to seemingly overnight, going off the deep end. She's still my daughter, I don't love her any less, and I have given up trying to understand why. I focus on how she treats other people, her work ethic, and how she conducts herself. Her gender identity is her demon to wrestle, I do know that she's been happier in the last four years, and more able to cope with her depression than she was growing up, and she's not on any depression meds any more. She was raised in a good Christian home, and knows that when her days on earth are done she will be judged by god. She has no interest in becoming a Mason FWIW |
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Quoted: Respectively and with total compassion I ask you have you tried to get your child professional help? You said her behavior just changed? God forbid this is the case with your daughter but I knew a girl who had gender identity issues after being raped. Something changed in your daughter. View Quote Aside from a diagnosis of separation anxiety at the beginning of each school year, and seasonal depression that she also saw a shrink for, the most traumatic thing in her life has been the passing of grandparents. |
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my opinion and mine alone here...
transgenderism is a mental illness. that is in direct violation of one of our obligations. If the man is obligated as a MM then so be it, he is already vetted and raised. This should be grounds for stopping advancement of candidates and for rejection of petitions. A female dressed up as a male simply does not meet our requirements of "being a male. freeborn and of good report". Having parts cut off or added does not change your gender it simply means you have mutilated yourself to promote a false self image. don't get me wrong here, i harbor them no ill will and everyone should live the life they want. But we reject men daily based on many less significant criteria. |
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my opinion and mine alone here... transgenderism is a mental illness. that is in direct violation of one of our obligations. If the man is obligated as a MM then so be it, he is already vetted and raised. This should be grounds for stopping advancement of candidates and for rejection of petitions. A female dressed up as a male simply does not meet our requirements of "being a male. freeborn and of good report". Having parts cut off or added does not change your gender it simply means you have mutilated yourself to promote a false self image. don't get me wrong here, i harbor them no ill will and everyone should live the life they want. But we reject men daily based on many less significant criteria. View Quote No ill will toward anyone. Wouldn't ever be rude or hostile toward a transgender person unless they did something that would cause me to be rude or hostile to anyone, would have nothing to do with their gender identity. That said, the Masons are a men's club. Surgery does not make you a man. That simple. Go in peace and live your life. You'll get no grief from me. But I won't vote to make you a Mason. |
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That's about where I'm at. No ill will toward anyone. Wouldn't ever be rude or hostile toward a transgender person unless they did something that would cause me to be rude or hostile to anyone, would have nothing to do with their gender identity. That said, the Masons are a men's club. Surgery does not make you a man. That simple. Go in peace and live your life. You'll get no grief from me. But I won't vote to make you a Mason. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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my opinion and mine alone here... transgenderism is a mental illness. that is in direct violation of one of our obligations. If the man is obligated as a MM then so be it, he is already vetted and raised. This should be grounds for stopping advancement of candidates and for rejection of petitions. A female dressed up as a male simply does not meet our requirements of "being a male. freeborn and of good report". Having parts cut off or added does not change your gender it simply means you have mutilated yourself to promote a false self image. don't get me wrong here, i harbor them no ill will and everyone should live the life they want. But we reject men daily based on many less significant criteria. No ill will toward anyone. Wouldn't ever be rude or hostile toward a transgender person unless they did something that would cause me to be rude or hostile to anyone, would have nothing to do with their gender identity. That said, the Masons are a men's club. Surgery does not make you a man. That simple. Go in peace and live your life. You'll get no grief from me. But I won't vote to make you a Mason. I brought this up a couple of meetings ago, afterwards. The old guys were like noooooooooo waaaaayyyyyyyy. On the other hand, what if a male to female transsexual joins or a crossdresser... it has a penis. ??? |
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you wont know if a female to male transsexual joins. There are some really masculine females and if they take their shirt off you would see a hairy muscular chest. We dont check a persons genitals. I brought this up a couple of meetings ago, afterwards. The old guys were like noooooooooo waaaaayyyyyyyy. On the other hand, what if a male to female transsexual joins or a crossdresser... it has a penis. ??? View Quote no you may not catch them all, but we also don't catch all the dopers and wife beaters. that said if we find issues of questionable behavior or past incidents we have a duty to ask questions before allowing admission. |
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Quoted:
you wont know if a female to male transsexual joins. There are some really masculine females and if they take their shirt off you would see a hairy muscular chest. We dont check a persons genitals. I brought this up a couple of meetings ago, afterwards. The old guys were like noooooooooo waaaaayyyyyyyy. On the other hand, what if a male to female transsexual joins or a crossdresser... it has a penis. ??? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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my opinion and mine alone here... transgenderism is a mental illness. that is in direct violation of one of our obligations. If the man is obligated as a MM then so be it, he is already vetted and raised. This should be grounds for stopping advancement of candidates and for rejection of petitions. A female dressed up as a male simply does not meet our requirements of "being a male. freeborn and of good report". Having parts cut off or added does not change your gender it simply means you have mutilated yourself to promote a false self image. don't get me wrong here, i harbor them no ill will and everyone should live the life they want. But we reject men daily based on many less significant criteria. No ill will toward anyone. Wouldn't ever be rude or hostile toward a transgender person unless they did something that would cause me to be rude or hostile to anyone, would have nothing to do with their gender identity. That said, the Masons are a men's club. Surgery does not make you a man. That simple. Go in peace and live your life. You'll get no grief from me. But I won't vote to make you a Mason. I brought this up a couple of meetings ago, afterwards. The old guys were like noooooooooo waaaaayyyyyyyy. On the other hand, what if a male to female transsexual joins or a crossdresser... it has a penis. ??? I suppose by my own rule someone born a man would be a possible candidate. |
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my opinion and mine alone here... transgenderism is a mental illness. that is in direct violation of one of our obligations. If the man is obligated as a MM then so be it, he is already vetted and raised. This should be grounds for stopping advancement of candidates and for rejection of petitions. A female dressed up as a male simply does not meet our requirements of "being a male. freeborn and of good report". Having parts cut off or added does not change your gender it simply means you have mutilated yourself to promote a false self image. don't get me wrong here, i harbor them no ill will and everyone should live the life they want. But we reject men daily based on many less significant criteria. View Quote |
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This. Tranny falls under the category of madman. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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my opinion and mine alone here... transgenderism is a mental illness. that is in direct violation of one of our obligations. If the man is obligated as a MM then so be it, he is already vetted and raised. This should be grounds for stopping advancement of candidates and for rejection of petitions. A female dressed up as a male simply does not meet our requirements of "being a male. freeborn and of good report". Having parts cut off or added does not change your gender it simply means you have mutilated yourself to promote a false self image. don't get me wrong here, i harbor them no ill will and everyone should live the life they want. But we reject men daily based on many less significant criteria. I have no issues with them, but in my heart I believe they have mental issues that led them to choose that lifestyle. I couldn't make one a Mason. |
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Sure, but what exactly are the specific requirements? Do we take mental illness into consideration? Behavior? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes |
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I would hope that the investigation committee did their due diligence. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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My point is, who's gonna know? they could very well get right in. When's the last time you went on an investigation and asked they were a transsexual |
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Quoted: That's the point. nobody's checking.. When's the last time you went on an investigation and asked they were a transsexual View Quote assuming a background check is done that will likely come out. a simple pipl report would likely show multiple names tied to that individual and any adult dealings under the other gender name would be pretty obvious. Of course this assumes a proper investigation, many lodges barely investigate beyond the initial petition which is something that really needs to change. i bounced an individual a few years ago that was a pretty blatant racist and disability fraud a few years ago. he was a popular cousin of another brother and no one new his history. took me 20 min on google to find all kinds of garbage on him. the other 2 investigators more or less rubber stamped him and were shocked when i gave my report. |
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it's not necessary the question be asked if a proper investigation is done. assuming a background check is done that will likely come out. a simple pipl report would likely show multiple names tied to that individual and any adult dealings under the other gender name would be pretty obvious. Of course this assumes a proper investigation, many lodges barely investigate beyond the initial petition which is something that really needs to change. i bounced an individual a few years ago that was a pretty blatant racist and disability fraud a few years ago. he was a popular cousin of another brother and no one new his history. took me 20 min on google to find all kinds of garbage on him. the other 2 investigators more or less rubber stamped him and were shocked when i gave my report. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted: That's the point. nobody's checking.. When's the last time you went on an investigation and asked they were a transsexual assuming a background check is done that will likely come out. a simple pipl report would likely show multiple names tied to that individual and any adult dealings under the other gender name would be pretty obvious. Of course this assumes a proper investigation, many lodges barely investigate beyond the initial petition which is something that really needs to change. i bounced an individual a few years ago that was a pretty blatant racist and disability fraud a few years ago. he was a popular cousin of another brother and no one new his history. took me 20 min on google to find all kinds of garbage on him. the other 2 investigators more or less rubber stamped him and were shocked when i gave my report. What if their name was Leslie or Lynn? |
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Quoted: I get you bro. What if their name was Leslie or Lynn? View Quote my experience shows that many times there are other issues along with this in their lives that point to issues. |
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it's not necessary the question be asked if a proper investigation is done. assuming a background check is done that will likely come out. a simple pipl report would likely show multiple names tied to that individual and any adult dealings under the other gender name would be pretty obvious. Of course this assumes a proper investigation, many lodges barely investigate beyond the initial petition which is something that really needs to change. i bounced an individual a few years ago that was a pretty blatant racist and disability fraud a few years ago. he was a popular cousin of another brother and no one new his history. took me 20 min on google to find all kinds of garbage on him. the other 2 investigators more or less rubber stamped him and were shocked when i gave my report. View Quote |
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Quoted:
my opinion and mine alone here... transgenderism is a mental illness. that is in direct violation of one of our obligations. If the man is obligated as a MM then so be it, he is already vetted and raised. This should be grounds for stopping advancement of candidates and for rejection of petitions. A female dressed up as a male simply does not meet our requirements of "being a male. freeborn and of good report". Having parts cut off or added does not change your gender it simply means you have mutilated yourself to promote a false self image. don't get me wrong here, i harbor them no ill will and everyone should live the life they want. But we reject men daily based on many less significant criteria. View Quote |
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Regardless of our opinions on it, you can see why the UGLE put this out..., in the UK, speaking ill of trans people is a hate crime, much less saying that they can't be in your organization.
"the following grounds would constitute unlawful discrimination" IMO, it appears that the UGLE is doing their best to navigate troubled waters. |
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Regardless of our opinions on it, you can see why the UGLE put this out..., in the UK, speaking ill of trans people is a hate crime, much less saying that they can't be in your organization. "the following grounds would constitute unlawful discrimination" IMO, it appears that the UGLE is doing their best to navigate troubled waters. View Quote |
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