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Posted: 9/5/2023 8:08:07 PM EDT
So I decided to try a Sprint Triathlon on Labor Day.....just 5d before Labor Day. No training and no prep
Not terrible. 1:34min finish time. Seems like most the real athletes were finishing in the 58min to 1:10min range. I'm guessing I could have knocked off 5-6min total from my time by just having some rest/recovery days in my leadup to the event, knowing how to swim (I've never swam before), actually knowing how to transition; oh and eating before the triathlon, I forgot to eat until it was over. But now I want to do more. My goal is summer of 2024 to finish a half Iron Man, and the summer of 2025 to do a full Iron Man. I think 2y is more than enough time to build up to doing a full Iron Man. Is that unreasonable? I'm looking for help in mapping out a training and competition plan for this. I've got "OK" endurance built up, but I'm slow. I was going to start doing some swimming training, and in combination with that work on interval/speed sessions for my bike and run. Maybe do another sprint triathlon after some real training to reset my baseline? I'm thinking I should throw some run only events in my training (10k, 1/2 marathon, etc) too, is that stupid? I don't know. I want to do an Iron Man now but I dont' know how to swim (haha) and am trying to build slowly to avoid injury (I'm old too). |
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USA
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Posted: 9/5/2023 8:41:18 PM EDT
[#1]
The only thing that matters in tri at longer distances is the run.
Swimming is the most technical, but also the least important. Bike takes practice because of weird muscles and position, but its just about spending time on a well fitted bike. The run however is the destroyer. If you cant run fast, your fitness doesnt matter. Plenty of amazing biathletes get absolutely ruined in tris, not because of fitness, but because they cant run for junk. Find a running program, then worry about the rest. |
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Posted: 9/5/2023 9:33:13 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By anono: The only thing that matters in tri at longer distances is the run. Swimming is the most technical, but also the least important. Bike takes practice because of weird muscles and position, but its just about spending time on a well fitted bike. The run however is the destroyer. If you cant run fast, your fitness doesnt matter. Plenty of amazing biathletes get absolutely ruined in tris, not because of fitness, but because they cant run for junk. Find a running program, then worry about the rest. Interesting. And thanks. The bike didn't really bother me, so that lines up with your advice. But I thought I was going to drown a half a dozen times in the swim, my heart rate skyrocketed not due to physical exhertion but from shock/fear. And the run was where I made up all my time after I got over the shock of my legs not working for the first 1k after getting off the bike. It felt like my calves were locked up. After the race I googled it and I guess that's a thing. I was thinking of doing a half marathon to build my running skills a bit. 13.5mi isn't a terrible distance for me now, I've run 9mi on a whim. I figure I could do a half marathon in 6-8 weeks focusing on speed/interval training to drop that run time. Right now I might be able to grit my teeth through that distance in 2hr, but I'd like to run that distance in 90min comfortably. |
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Posted: 9/5/2023 10:04:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Sumo6]
[#3]
Originally Posted By anono: The only thing that matters in tri at longer distances is the run. My opinion is entirely the opposite. The swim is critical. It sets up the day. You must get out of that water in good shape. Barely make the cutoff while heaving a quart of water you've sucked up is going to ruin the rest of the day. The ride is where you set yourself up for success on the run. A proper bike fit is essential IMO. If you're in Houston I can tell you exactly where to go. He's so good that even if you're not in Houston he'd be worth the drive from any corner of this state. Fueling strategy is important on long courses, and that's going to take some big brick workouts to get your specific needs ironed out. The run is cake, as long as you got your fueling and electrolytes onboard on the ride. But I'm a runner. The only problem I ever had was stiff hips coming off the bike. A tri bike is not easy to set up and I went through seven saddles, three cranks, two cockpits, and two fitters before I got sorted out. The second fitter was practically magic.  Attached FileMy Kickr gets a lot of use now that I can sit on the bike comfortably. Makes all the difference. This was today’s little ride. |
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Posted: 9/5/2023 11:56:16 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sumo6: My opinion is entirely the opposite. The swim is critical. It sets up the day. You must get out of that water in good shape. Barely make the cutoff while heaving a quart of water you've sucked up is going to ruin the rest of the day. The ride is where you set yourself up for success on the run. A proper bike fit is essential IMO. If you're in Houston I can tell you exactly where to go. He's so good that even if you're not in Houston he'd be worth the drive from any corner of this state. Fueling strategy is important on long courses, and that's going to take some big brick workouts to get your specific needs ironed out. The run is cake, as long as you got your fueling and electrolytes onboard on the ride. But I'm a runner. The only problem I ever had was stiff hips coming off the bike. A tri bike is not easy to set up and I went through seven saddles, three cranks, two cockpits, and two fitters before I got sorted out. The second fitter was practically magic. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/206560/F2512AD7-075D-47DB-AC0A-25DB4F35AAAF_jpe-2944225.JPG My Kickr gets a lot of use now that I can sit on the bike comfortably. Makes all the difference. This was today’s little ride. That’s a nice ride time. I’ve had my trainer for a while and use it regularly. But I am on a fitness bike (basically a rigid mountain bike with road tires). I bought it just to get back in shape years ago and have just been wearing it out. I just got the pictures from the triathlon photographer. I look like a f’n goofball on that bike. I didn’t realize how poor the body position was on it because I’ve never had anyone take a picture of me on it. My plan was to keep that bike as it works and focus on other things but after seeing the pics…Jesus I look like a fool on it. |
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Posted: 9/6/2023 3:37:07 AM EDT
[#5]
A proper tri bike is awesome, but it must be set up properly.
I had some saddles that were so wrong, I could barely stay aero for any more than ten seconds. I just could not get on my elbows. Now I’m good to go. The Kickr was the game changer for me. I can just get on and focus on leg development, and not worry about getting hit by a car. I ride a lot more now and my legs and fitness show it. |
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USA
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Posted: 9/6/2023 6:02:09 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sumo6: My opinion is entirely the opposite. But I'm a runner. Thats all you needed to say  Anyhow, the person with the best run splits almost always wins. The difference in speed between best and worst is far more on the run than on bike or swim. Bike on a flat and swim arent nearly as dependent on plain old genetics. You can train for them and do ok. Body weight and muscle mass dont matter nearly as much. Running you need to be rail thin with a slight build. Bone dry at a very unhealthy 4% bodyfat I was still 185. I killed at swim and bike, then lost everything on the run. My absolute fastest spilts were 6.5minutes even at a very good VO2max and rhr of 38. |
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Posted: 9/6/2023 7:49:45 PM EDT
[#7]
I have the "this mofo don't swim" genetics. Swimming 500 yds is harder for me than running 20 miles. It's not even funny.
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USA
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Posted: 9/6/2023 8:48:36 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sumo6: I have the "this mofo don't swim" genetics. Swimming 500 yds is harder for me than running 20 miles. It's not even funny. Youre like my evil twin lol. I can do 5k in a swim much easier than running say just two miles. I guess for OP the lesson is, find what youre good at, then train at other stuff, then who knows. All I know is every race Ive seen or participated in, the top guys were wafers and extremely good runners. |
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Posted: 9/6/2023 10:30:36 PM EDT
[#9]
Triathlon is equal opportunity misery. Usually you see a mix of very fit people to very, uh, not fit. Some butterballs even. Even at Ironman events.
I was at an Xterra event this summer. Saturday were the triathlons, and it was the full range of athleticism represented. Sunday was the trail runs. Holy hell. Everybody was ripped. Even the chicks were lean. Not a single chubby signed up for that 21K trail run. |
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GA, USA
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Posted: 9/7/2023 7:07:50 AM EDT
[#10]
You NEED this book.
https://a.co/d/9jpvhWr All of my swim training was lifesaving type swimming, short, anaerobic burst type with my head mostly above water. After doing what was in the book I got out of the water in good times ready to crush the bike. Also I found I did a lot better with a nose clip. After having my tonsils out I just couldn't control my air through my nose. I did the Ironman on my crit bike. I've done all my triathlons on my crit bike and finished well, on the podium for a sprint. I was doing triathlon to try out triathlon. If I was going to dedicate to it and try to win I would get a tri-bike. |
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Posted: 9/7/2023 7:23:54 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dyezak: Interesting. And thanks. The bike didn't really bother me, so that lines up with your advice. But I thought I was going to drown a half a dozen times in the swim, my heart rate skyrocketed not due to physical exhertion but from shock/fear. And the run was where I made up all my time after I got over the shock of my legs not working for the first 1k after getting off the bike. It felt like my calves were locked up. After the race I googled it and I guess that's a thing. I was thinking of doing a half marathon to build my running skills a bit. 13.5mi isn't a terrible distance for me now, I've run 9mi on a whim. I figure I could do a half marathon in 6-8 weeks focusing on speed/interval training to drop that run time. Right now I might be able to grit my teeth through that distance in 2hr, but I'd like to run that distance in 90min comfortably. A 90 minute half marathon is smoking fast. I ran a small local half a few weeks ago, and that time would’ve placed 5th overall out of 100. What kind of mile times do you run currently? What are the distances for the type of triathlon you did? I’ve always wondered about that sort of competition, but have never tried it. Thanks! |
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Posted: 9/7/2023 9:39:33 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By erud: A 90 minute half marathon is smoking fast. I ran a small local half a few weeks ago, and that time would’ve placed 5th overall out of 100. What kind of mile times do you run currently? What are the distances for the type of triathlon you did? I’ve always wondered about that sort of competition, but have never tried it. Thanks! I'm slow. I run a 9:20mi if I'm running 1mi, or if I'm running 9mi. Funny, my last 10k 2w ago I was creeping faster through the milage. Started at 9:40, and mile 6 was 9:10. My last 9mi run was an average of 9:20 with fluctuations through each split. I'm guessing with 6-8 weeks of training I could extend my endurance to keep that pace for another 3-4mi and finish around a 2hr mark. I'd bet 12-16 weeks of training I could comfortably go below 2hr. But I don't see any reason I shouldn't be aiming for a 6:30mi over the course of 2y of training putting a half marathon distance in the 90min range. But I'm in serious need of doing some speed/interval work to reduce the time. |
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Posted: 9/7/2023 9:47:46 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Foxarockin: You NEED this book. https://a.co/d/9jpvhWr All of my swim training was lifesaving type swimming, short, anaerobic burst type with my head mostly above water. After doing what was in the book I got out of the water in good times ready to crush the bike. Also I found I did a lot better with a nose clip. After having my tonsils out I just couldn't control my air through my nose. I did the Ironman on my crit bike. I've done all my triathlons on my crit bike and finished well, on the podium for a sprint. I was doing triathlon to try out triathlon. If I was going to dedicate to it and try to win I would get a tri-bike. I had to pull that link out, the hotlink is broken. Yea, I don't want to spend any money on this until I know my knee isn't going to keep me from enjoying things long term. BUT, I need a new bike. I can't be doing these things on a modified mountain bike. If I had a real road bike, or even a crit bike, I wouldn't even be thinking about it. |
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Posted: 9/7/2023 7:32:54 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By dyezak: I'm slow. I run a 9:20mi if I'm running 1mi, or if I'm running 9mi. Funny, my last 10k 2w ago I was creeping faster through the milage. Started at 9:40, and mile 6 was 9:10. My last 9mi run was an average of 9:20 with fluctuations through each split. I'm guessing with 6-8 weeks of training I could extend my endurance to keep that pace for another 3-4mi and finish around a 2hr mark. I'd bet 12-16 weeks of training I could comfortably go below 2hr. But I don't see any reason I shouldn't be aiming for a 6:30mi over the course of 2y of training putting a half marathon distance in the 90min range. But I'm in serious need of doing some speed/interval work to reduce the time. Nothing wrong with setting lofty goals. Keep us posted on your progress, and check out the running thread pinned up at the top of the fitness sub-forum if you decide to start racking up miles. Good luck! |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 6:58:12 PM EDT
[#15]
Picked my next Tri. Olympic length in Ausin on 4/7/2024.
I'll actually train this time. I think I'm going to avoid running for 8 weeks because I have some tendonitise in my right knee. I'll keep on my recovery through next week, then start ramping it up again. I'll be focusing on learning how to swim for this 1.5km swim...don't think I can just grit my teeth and muscle through an open water 1.5km swim in April. Going to need to know how to do it for real. I'm pretty comfortable with the bike and run distances...but I know now that I need to put in some brick work along with some speed work for both. I'll be taking the next week to put pen to paper on a full daily training plan from 9/17/2023 to 4/7/2024 including an event or two in the middle of the training to check my fitness. Anyone want to review my daily plan to provide feedback? |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 9:09:35 PM EDT
[#16]
That's the same date for the Ironman 70.3 in Galveston. I haven't decided if I'm going to register for that yet. I want to.
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Posted: 9/9/2023 9:28:10 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sumo6: That's the same date for the Ironman 70.3 in Galveston. I haven't decided if I'm going to register for that yet. I want to. My goal is to do an Olympic in spring of 2024, and then a 70.3 in fall of 2024, so I can do the 140.6 in Galveston of 2025. |
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Posted: 9/9/2023 11:42:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Sumo6]
[#18]
They usually have a 70.3 in Waco in October (10/15 this year). You could target that for next year. AFAIK there's not a 140.6 in Galveston. IMTX is in the Woodlands. (The Galveston race is 70.3. Both Galveston and IMTX (Woodlands) are usually in April.)
Several of my friends target IMFL to get their 140.6. That's an interesting race. The interrupted swim is weird. And the wind on the bike leg is pretty legendary. Some people suffer with the humidity but Texans usually don't have that problem. My goal is to get confident enough in the 70.3 to do some international races. Italy and Morocco are on my short list. And Ireland, but they've had issues with the swim in Ireland so that's a little more iffy. Rough conditions. Two guys died in Ireland's 70.3 race last month. |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 7:32:24 AM EDT
[#19]
See if wetsuits are allowed for the swim. Given the time of year, I'd think they would be. You get a little extra buoyancy from a wetsuit.
Personally, I'd suggest you avoid open water swims until you are very comfortable swimming. The absolute last thing you want is to be gassed and disoriented in an open water swim. Beginner Triathlete has groups that do swims. They're worth a look. You may also be able to set up with a training partner. You can probably get by with your current bike at Oly length but it would be a mistake to try anything longer. At half-iron length, you really need to be on a well-fit bike. You may also want to speak with a nutritionist now if you plan on doing a full iron. How you fuel is as important as anything else, maybe more so. |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 7:22:42 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sumo6: They usually have a 70.3 in Waco in October (10/15 this year). You could target that for next year. AFAIK there's not a 140.6 in Galveston. IMTX is in the Woodlands. (The Galveston race is 70.3. Both Galveston and IMTX (Woodlands) are usually in April.) Several of my friends target IMFL to get their 140.6. That's an interesting race. The interrupted swim is weird. And the wind on the bike leg is pretty legendary. Some people suffer with the humidity but Texans usually don't have that problem. My goal is to get confident enough in the 70.3 to do some international races. Italy and Morocco are on my short list. And Ireland, but they've had issues with the swim in Ireland so that's a little more iffy. Rough conditions. Two guys died in Ireland's 70.3 race last month. Yep, I'll be going to Waco for the 70.3 next year for sure. As for the 140.6, you're right, I mixed up Galveston and the Woodlands. But I got an acquantiance in Virginia Beach that does triathlons, so I might look at something on the east coast to have him to compete with. Or I might do the one in Morro Bay California, I love Morro Bay and used to spend a LOT of time out there in Central Coast so it'd be nice to go back out that way for a vacation + triathlon in the same trip. |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 7:28:13 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By baxt3r: See if wetsuits are allowed for the swim. Given the time of year, I'd think they would be. You get a little extra buoyancy from a wetsuit. Personally, I'd suggest you avoid open water swims until you are very comfortable swimming. The absolute last thing you want is to be gassed and disoriented in an open water swim. Beginner Triathlete has groups that do swims. They're worth a look. You may also be able to set up with a training partner. You can probably get by with your current bike at Oly length but it would be a mistake to try anything longer. At half-iron length, you really need to be on a well-fit bike. You may also want to speak with a nutritionist now if you plan on doing a full iron. How you fuel is as important as anything else, maybe more so. I have a training partner that's in my neighborhood that I met in the swim in this triathlon we just did. His son and my son go to school together. I'll probably start swim training with him in the 50m olympic by our houses where we actually did this last tri. That's where he trains. As for the wetsuit, yep, a Roka is on my Christmas list already :). And for the Open Water stuff. That's a requirement for the 70.3, so I'm going to do this Olympic on open water in 6mo that way the Ironman isn't the first open water swim I do under competition pressure. I live 15mi from a lake. It's perfect for me to practice open water swimming with a wetsuit and swim bouy while my family plays in the park on the shore or is on a boat or something watching over me. I plan to log a couple open water swims between now and April to get more comfortable with it. I want to go into this Olympic Triathlon being capable of swimming open water 2000m. That way the 1500m open water swim in competition is something I should be very comfortable with. |
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Posted: 9/10/2023 9:28:19 PM EDT
[#22]
Roka has great Black Friday sales. HUUB wetsuits were 50% off too. I think most of the wetsuit brands had big sales last year. Quintana Roo for sure.
Also about that time Roka may have a blow-out of "open box" suits. I got a Maverick MX last year for stupid cheap ($125 I think), and it was absolutely fine. That MX is SUPER buoyant, BTW. I've got a couple XC race bikes on my wish list. Hoping for some killer deals at end of year. We'll see. Not a triathlon, but I just booked my hotel for this race: https://www.xterraplanet.com/event/xterra-trail-run-world-championship |
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USA
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Posted: 9/11/2023 10:21:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: MeatBag]
[#23]
I don't do tris, but I like how they setup the training in the 80/20 Triathlon book. $12 on kindle and it includes 4(?) plans based on ability for each distance from sprint to ironman.
I think it would be a good idea to get some swim coaching to get your technique dialed in. I completely self taught, it took awhile and I'm still very mediocre. |
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Posted: 9/15/2023 8:21:41 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MeatBag: I don't do tris, but I like how they setup the training in the 80/20 Triathlon book. $12 on kindle and it includes 4(?) plans based on ability for each distance from sprint to ironman. I think it would be a good idea to get some swim coaching to get your technique dialed in. I completely self taught, it took awhile and I'm still very mediocre. Swim technique is very important. Bilateral breathing is a thing. Get comfortable with it or get familiar with shoulder pain. It may not apply to everyone but it definitely happened to me. I breathed on one side for a couple months and started having shoulder pain. Found out the one-sided breathing was the cause. Started breathing on both sides (every 3rd stroke), the pain stopped happening. |
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Posted: 9/15/2023 9:43:28 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By baxt3r: Swim technique is very important. Bilateral breathing is a thing. Get comfortable with it or get familiar with shoulder pain. The other thing about bilateral breathing is in open water, it's possible you'll have waves to contend with and if you're not comfortable breathing to either side, you may be trying to breathe into the face of a wave. |
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Posted: 9/16/2023 11:14:50 PM EDT
[#26]
I found an older gentleman my height and weight that was getting out of triathlons. He just did Kona 2y ago, got a new bike this year and got hit with Covid. Hit him hard, so he is getting out. Got all his gear.
New Felt IA Advanced, Dura-Ace Hydraulic Disc DI2, 60mm 80mm carbon race wheels with DT-Swiss hubs, factory wheels for training, Quark powermeter crankset w/carbon cranks and ceramic BB. New ISM FS 1.0 saddle (never even mounted) and Look clipless pedals. HUUB Aegis X wet suit, HUBB Boyancy shorts, Quintana Roo sleeveless wet suit. And a GIRO Aero Advanced2 helmet. The GIRO and Quintana Roo are used for several years, but the HUUB gear was for his Kona run and only used 2x, and the bike is literally new (as are all accessories). I almost feel like I stole this from him but he was out in the middle of butt fuck nowhere and had no market to sell his stuff (literally the closest gas station was 67mi from his house). He was happy to get it into someones hands that would use it all for what it was intended for, and happy he could sell it all in a big package. $4k - I almost feel dirty, but I did spend 16hr's in a car driving to get all the stuff. |
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Posted: 9/17/2023 6:21:31 AM EDT
[#27]
Now, take that bike and get it fitted for you.
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Posted: 9/17/2023 8:50:40 AM EDT
[#28]
I’ll be getting a VeloFit on it today to hold me over for a couple weeks until I can get the RETUL fit from sport speed labs.
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Posted: 9/17/2023 1:58:15 PM EDT
[#29]
You did outstanding. That’s good gear.
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Posted: 9/18/2023 9:56:25 PM EDT
[#30]
Originally Posted By MeatBag: **SNIP** I think it would be a good idea to get some swim coaching to get your technique dialed in. I completely self taught, it took awhile and I'm still very mediocre. Originally Posted By baxt3r: Swim technique is very important. Bilateral breathing is a thing. **SNIP** Originally Posted By Sumo6: The other thing about **SNIP** So I'm done with recovery, back to Yesterday was strength day (leg day) and I put in a 22,000lb weight session (I feel THAT today). Today was my swim day, and for the first time ever, I swam with just paying attention to my swimming and I realized . . . I can't f'n breathe. I'm fine in a recreational setting. I'm not in danger of drowning. But once I put forth an athletic effort in the water I start gasping and my fear response seems to just instinctually kick in. I emailed a couple swim coaches, and went to the local olympic pool where the swim team trains to find a coach. All the coaches only coach the teams they are a part of. The gym doesn't have that option. And the 2 coaches I found local haven't responded to my emails. I'll be following the MOTTIV swim training plan in the absense of a coach, but will keep looking for one. This is my biggest weakness and I need to focus on it. _______________________________ Seperately, I did a short 30min recovery spin session on my new TT bike today on the trainer to help my legs get rid of the DOMS from yesterday's weight session. What a wildly different experience being on a TT bike. First off, the Felt IA isn't a lightweight when compared to modern road bikes. And my current Specialized "fitness" bike is all carbon, but holy hell...the Felt is like 1/2 the weight of my current bike. Then the drivetrain is like a fucking spaceship. Near silent...smooth as butter. But the real shocker that made my butt cheeks clinch was the short road ride where I felt the new geometry. OK, WTF. This shit is like learning to ride a bike all over again. I've got a LOT of work to do over the winter. Cal-Tri Austin 2024 is going to be a fucking blast. |
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Posted: 9/18/2023 9:59:54 PM EDT
[#31]
Oh, and side note - I bought my fitness bike (that got me started on this journey) in the spring of 2019. I started riding it and I swore the Jesus Christ that I'd never be caught dead in one of those skin tight spandex outfits.
_______________________________ Now I'm looking at skin tight triathlon suits 
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Posted: 9/19/2023 9:58:46 PM EDT
[#32]
I feel you on swim coaches. I've tried a couple and haven't found what I need yet.
I can't relax in the water. |
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Posted: 9/21/2023 9:59:10 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Sumo6: I feel you on swim coaches. I've tried a couple and haven't found what I need yet. I can't relax in the water. I'll be throwing in 2x extra swims every week for the next 5w just to focus on breathing. I feel like getting comfortable in this environment will be my biggest leap in training. Followed closely by learning how to sit on a TT bike in aero bars. What midevil torture device was a tt bike modeled after? Seriously guys, this is a joke right? |
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USA
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Posted: 9/22/2023 6:40:10 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By anono: The only thing that matters in tri at longer distances is the run. Swimming is the most technical, but also the least important. Bike takes practice because of weird muscles and position, but its just about spending time on a well fitted bike. The run however is the destroyer. If you cant run fast, your fitness doesnt matter. Plenty of amazing biathletes get absolutely ruined in tris, not because of fitness, but because they cant run for junk. Find a running program, then worry about the rest. 1 time Ironman, multiple half IMs, and former Cat 3 cyclist. Your 2 year goal is very reasonable. Ironman requires about 3-4x the training effort of half-IMs. In Ironman races, the run matters most; agree with above post. Swim is by far the shortest discipline in terms of duration. You need to swim well enough to comfortably make the cutoff time. This winter would be great to take some lessons and learn how to swim. Days are too short to get much bike volume anyway. Get comfortable and fast enough to make swim cutoffs without a wetsuit and get used to running 4-6 days/week this winter. Bike should be about going as easy as possible without surrendering too much time. At cycling velocities, air resistance to motion is a square function. At running velocities, it's basically linear, so the time return on energy invested is greater running than cycling. Goals - get comfy riding long distances and figure out how many calories you need and can consume on the bike. Running is about total accumulated volume. You don't need to do 18-20 mile long runs regularly. In fact, injury risk grows significantly as runs exceed 2.5 hours, so be judicious. Instead, run frequently. In your IM year, plan on 6-7 days/week of running, even if some of them are just 3-4 mile 'junk' runs. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 7:55:00 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By H46Driver: **snip** Running is about total accumulated volume. You don't need to do 18-20 mile long runs regularly. In fact, injury risk grows significantly as runs exceed 2.5 hours, so be judicious. Instead, run frequently. In your IM year, plan on 6-7 days/week of running, even if some of them are just 3-4 mile 'junk' runs. Thanks for all the advice...and I am hearing the same thing you said right here. I've even seen it mentioned that once you start comfortably running to a distance of 2.5hr that you stop there during training, and then start adding in a second run later in the same day for volume accumulation without injury. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 8:04:19 AM EDT
[#36]
OP my biggest tip that was passed on to me from a 10 time Ironman finisher was to always envision the Ironman finish line during my workouts.
It's been many moons since I completed Ironman Canada in Penticton BC. I lived in Ohio during that period of time so weather was always a factor. The outline below was followed for 12 months as I was self-employed and could schedule work around my training. Swim: The majority of my swimming training was done indoors in an Olympic pool after lifecycle and strength training in the gym at the same facility. I logged four days in the pool with an average distance of 2 miles followed by a 1/4 mile kick board routine which consisted of 1 lap of kicking followed by a lap of holding the kick board between my knees and using my arms as propulsion. When the weather permitted I would cycle down to the shores of Lake Erie (25 miles) to a park that had piers extending out from the shore and swim parallel to the shore in order to keep a count of pseudo laps then cycle home. I religiously logged 8 miles minimum a week as swimming was my weakest of the three disciplines. Bike: Again when weather permitted it was done outdoors with a once a week ride of 100 miles. The remaining days were distances of 25 to 40 miles followed by a run of 6 miles. I wanted to discipline myself on the bike to run transition as I would initially run the 1st. mile or 2 too fast burning more energy than I wanted to. I think I averaged about 150 miles a week cycling. The gym was the alternate for life cycle workouts when the weather was too foul for outdoor work. Run I based the frequency of runs on the logged cycle/run amount. I always ran 20 miles on the weekend. My shorter runs were fartlek in nature that discipline me to control my pace. I averaged about 60 miles a week. In my experience crossing the finish line of an Ironman was the most satisfying accomplishment of my life to date. I would wish you good luck but it takes much more than luck to finish an Ironman. May you enjoy the same feeling I had OP when you cross the finish line due to all the preparation/training you did. |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 8:54:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: dyezak]
[#37]
So high level here's the way I'm approaching this:
September 2023 - Impromptue Sprint Triathlon (done), there was no training for this but my 1:34:37.6 finish time with no training put me right smack on the total 2023 average pace for my age group in sprint distance triathlons (01:37:40.8 is the overall average for 40-44y old sprints for all 2023 events). My finish Average Finish Times (sportstats) Looking at my results the swim was abysmal. Because I can't swim. Most people in my age group were hitting below 7min. My 11:45 is embarassing, and just learning how to swim correctly would cut 4-5min from my finish time. T1 was hillarious. I was so lost, literally and figuratively. I could easily cut this in half and go down to 2min. ETA: Even with those embarassing performances, I was super impressed by my run. Not cause it was fast. I'm impressed because I'd never done a run directly after a ride...as you can imagine my legs were all locked up. But I knew my body and intuited that they would loosen up and just pushed through it and ended up with a decent bike/t2/run time that I honestly feel proud of. 3mo - "Off Season" training pushing muscular development, speed work, intervals, etc. 6d a week training. 3x strength push, pull, legs. 1 swim, 1 run, 1 bike. Any free time I want to fill in I'll be doing it via adding in swims or bikes cause I need them. One full day of recovery a week. Nutrition plans will be to maintain a caloric surplus here to facilitate muscle growth and development. 3mo - "In Season" training. Pull back on strength. No longer building strength but maintain it. 2x strength sessions a week. Double up on run bike swim. Each of the run bike swims will have an increasing duration (10% more per week) low HR session pushing endurance, and seperately an interval speed work session. April 2024 - Olympic Tri (progression check) goal of 2:45 here. But I really will be dissapointed if I take longer than 3hr. 1 week of recovery - More like a light offseason week here with additional caloric surplus to help recover. 2mo Off Season training again. But progressions start from where I left off at the end of my prior off season. 4mo In Season training again. But progressions start from where I left off at the end of my prior off season. October 2024 - Iron Man 70.3 (progression check) goal of 6:30 here. I'll be dissapointed if I go over 7hr. If I beat my goal, I move to train for a full Iron in 6mo. If I don't meet my goal, I need to reassess. 1 week of recovery - More like a light offseason week here with additional caloric surplus to help recover. 6mo In Season training again. But progressions start from where I left off at the end of my prior off season. April 2025 - Iron Man 140.6 (end goal) |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 9:26:17 AM EDT
[#38]
 Sean Conway: Setting The Most Impressive World Record Ever!? |
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Posted: 9/22/2023 10:14:17 AM EDT
[#39]
I may have landed a swim coach!
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Posted: 9/25/2023 8:24:04 PM EDT
[#40]
Got a swim coach...going to be doing more swimming every week just focusing on breathing. Her direction is eventually bi-lateral breathing is something to work towards, but for right now breath to the side that is more comfortable, and more frequently (too much holding my breath). Given my current stroke and heart rate during my swim she feels confident I can fix my breathing I can easily get to 1km of sustained freestyle by Thanksgiving.
I have 2 wetsuits, but am avoiding them while learning these fundamentals. Once I can breathe, and the temp drops, I'll start layering them into my training. |
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Posted: 10/1/2023 1:53:02 PM EDT
[#41]
So I took 2wks off after that Labor Day Triathlon for rest/recovery given I had just did 100d straight with no recovery leading up to the Tri. I knew I was overtrained, but it was my goal for the summer.
The last 2wks I have been ramping back up into my training and my performance has took off. I did my first real true brick session yesterday, 27.5mi on my bike followed up by a 1.5mi run. I averaged 18.1mph for that ride, a full 1mph faster than any ride I had this year over 20mi. And my 1.5mi run following the ride was improved over the first 1.5mi of my actual tri performance (after only riding 16.xmi in that sprint tri). I've got 4 more weeks on this base training plan, then a light week for recovery, then I move into my full training plan right up to my next Tri in Austin on 4/7/2024. Now I just need to learn to swim 
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Posted: 10/2/2023 11:58:16 AM EDT
[#42]
 Attached FileThis is my run profile from yesterday. Sometimes I think I should stick to what I’m good at. But growth comes through adversity. The swim is my nemesis. |
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Posted: 10/2/2023 12:20:46 PM EDT
[#43]
Good for you OP - awesome sport - I just wish I had found it earlier....
Red |
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Posted: 10/2/2023 6:22:27 PM EDT
[#44]
Swimming sucks. Just knocked out 1km. It's something I've never done and is so profoundly different than anything else I've ever done athleticly.
My plan has Mondays at my long swim day every week. 1km today. Add 100m every week. So 1y from today I should be knocking out 6km in my Monday swim sessions. Wednesday and Friday I add specific technique sessions on top of my other workouts. Been putting seat time in my tri-bike with the Votol fit (which is ballpark at best) just so I can be in a comfortable enough position where I can do a multi-hour session for my Retul fit. My Retul fit in a couple weeks will be full bike setup, shoe molding to my feet, and saddle fitting. That ISM SP1.0 is like riding a brick. Going to need a more compliant saddle for multi-hour sessions. I'm sure I can train to endure the current saddle better, but why do that if there's an option to be more comfortable. My thought is that part of the endurance is cardiovascular. Part of the endurance is muscular. But part of it is mental in dealing with all the discomfort and pain. If I can eliminate discomfort, and avoid pain, that should help me keep from letting my focus drift. |
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Posted: 10/5/2023 3:36:21 PM EDT
[#45]
I did the 70.3 Miami a few years ago at age 42. It was awesome. If you're not a pro, train hard but don't kill yourself in the race...enjoy it. Find a partner to train up. I did a few sprint tris but they're really too short to be relevant. I did about six Olympic tris, which will help you learn about yourself but you still need to train much further distances. The biggest unmentioned obstacle is showing up to the event without injuries from your training. A lot of my group tore up feet, knees, IT bands, and shoulders...about 8 of us started training together but only two of us were healthy enough to do the event.
Swim slow enough to start the bike. Bike slow enough to start the run. Keep moving. The novice Tri crowd is an awesome group. You're literally only competing with yourself and the course. Most people are super supportive and cool. Have fun. |
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Posted: 10/6/2023 4:49:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dyezak]
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FlockaCGulz: I did the 70.3 Miami a few years ago at age 42. It was awesome. If you're not a pro, train hard but don't kill yourself in the race...enjoy it. Find a partner to train up. I did a few sprint tris but they're really too short to be relevant. I did about six Olympic tris, which will help you learn about yourself but you still need to train much further distances. The biggest unmentioned obstacle is showing up to the event without injuries from your training. A lot of my group tore up feet, knees, IT bands, and shoulders...about 8 of us started training together but only two of us were healthy enough to do the event. Swim slow enough to start the bike. Bike slow enough to start the run. Keep moving. The novice Tri crowd is an awesome group. You're literally only competing with yourself and the course. Most people are super supportive and cool. Have fun. I have an Olympic in April and a 70.3 in October next year. The Olympic distance isn’t a big deal, did a brick session on Saturday last week that was 27.5mi bike and 5mi run (the run was super easy, I could have kept going for another 3-4mi at my tempo pace). Right now I’ve got enough endurance that the Olympic doesn’t scare me from a finishing standpoint. I’m trying to push my interval training, speed work, strength, etc to get an above average finish time for my age group (45-50). The 70.3 will be a new experience and will take some endurance work to get there. I want to reassess after the 70.3 next October and if I finish that one strong I’ll push for a 140.6 six months later in the first quarter of 2025. |
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Posted: 10/11/2023 4:44:44 PM EDT
[#47]
Nothing is more humbling than going for a 4mi intervals run with your 7y old son and seeing him smash your uphill interval workout.
Little man ran a total of 4.1mi with me today with 11x intervals in the mix. |
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Posted: 10/17/2023 2:45:31 PM EDT
[#48]
Glad I found this thread, lot of good info. I will be attempting to do a 70.3 IM here in Michigan Sept of 2024. I am going in totally blind on most aspects, as I don't really swim or bike (yet). Going to get fit for a Bike next Friday and have a swim coach lined up.
This is why you don't let your older brother talk you into stuff! |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/17/2023 3:29:35 PM EDT
[#49]
@dyezak
I've done several tris, but the wife is the triathlete. It looks like you two have similar goal times. She does just about every triathlon you listed. The family does the Blackland & Cedar Hill each year. Those are great for families. Galveston is good but it's warm and the run is three very congested laps, Waco's bike was BRUTAL this year with the wind and last year with the rain (tons of wrecks). One guy had a heart attack on the way back to Waco. Every athlete I talked to said the same "This bike was the worst experience I've ever had." As mentioned above, Woodlands wind on the toll road is legendary. She's planning to skip IMTexas and do Chattanooga instead — she's heard from friends & training partners it's superior in every way. The best 70.3 distance in the state is Kerrville (not an actual M-Dot event) from several angles (weather, the swim, beautiful bike, easy run, spectator friendly, post-race food & beer, floating in the river) My wife uses TriDot for training plans. She has a virtual nutritionist (Jessica), she's a swim coach and belongs to a local swim club, I am her run coach but she's not very obedient and she regularly threatens to fire me. To echo what others have said, a proper bike fit will change your world. My wife went from hating the bike, to tolerating it, to liking it, and now she loves it. She found a local bike shop that will adjust anything she wants just about any time she wants it. She's bought four bikes from them (one for our daughter). She has two bikes set up identically except one is complete carbon everything for race day, the other is aluminum and pretty much lives on the trainer. We're between Temple and Waco so keep us updated and we'll try to meet up for some of the Co-Ed events. Pizza and beer is her dinner ritual prior to every race. Galveston Saturday for the Beach Girl Tri — do you identify as female? My 13YO daughter could pace you for most of the race, but she'll have to wait in T1 coming out of the water — she's gonna pay for college with swimming. |
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Posted: 10/17/2023 4:44:47 PM EDT
[#50]
I have competed in exactly one Triathlon. I am a tremendous swimmer, (for real) a mediocre biker and not that great of a runner (5:30 fastest mile). I did not even place in the top two thirds. Ya gotta run and bike like a mad man.
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