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Posted: 5/27/2022 10:38:34 AM EDT
[#1]
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Posted: 5/27/2022 10:43:32 AM EDT
[#2]
Yeah. Those Utah NPs are ridiculous.
Too many people in the West is why I hate everybody. There are still good backcountry opportunities. They just require more commitment. I was very disappointed in the shoddy Chinese design work shown in Covid. |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 10:45:50 AM EDT
[#3]
Anything that most people have heard of is basically a sacrificial lamb. The Instagram famous spots are ruined. However, it concentrates all of the ding dongs in those places.
Lots of empty, wide open country to explore out there. If people don't post about them on social media they'll stay that way. |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 10:46:38 AM EDT
[#4]
Let me guess, the author is for open borders but wants everything they like to themselves.
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Posted: 5/27/2022 10:48:46 AM EDT
[#5]
The Moab area has become a total shit show.
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Posted: 5/27/2022 10:49:58 AM EDT
[#6]
This is why I'm glad I keep a set of USGS quadrangles and the skills to use them. I make my own path these days. PA still has many wild areas, but the usual spots are inundated with people. "Over loved."
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Posted: 5/27/2022 10:52:38 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anything that most people have heard of is basically a sacrificial lamb. The Instagram famous spots are ruined. However, it concentrates all of the ding dongs in those places. Lots of empty, wide open country to explore out there. If people don't post about them on social media they'll stay that way. This. We did a Yellowstone trip last year, and the crowds around the main attractions were ridiculous. It felt like being at Disney. On the last day, we rented a 4WD and drove up into the mountains to an old mining town. Barely a soul in sight - it felt like we had the entire valley to ourselves. It's the same here on the east coast: anything that's <3 trail miles from a road is overrun, but it's almost totally empty beyond that. |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 10:53:02 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryHaha, silly people don't know the dirt road in from Hwy 191 a few miles north of town. Not even a guard gate at the fence line going into the park. 
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Posted: 5/27/2022 10:53:15 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Moab area has become a total shit show. Go during the winter. We went a few years ago and the Jeep crowd that is their during summer and fall is long gone. To cold to drive around and pose with the doors off. We had a blast, and went to arches and we're ran into one other couple there. I can't imagine going to Moab during Easter Jeep Safari weekend. Just a line of jeeps all doing the exact same thing. |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 10:53:28 AM EDT
[#10]
Looks like a good place to build a Walmart and a Cracker Barrel.
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Posted: 5/27/2022 10:54:01 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is why I'm glad I keep a set of USGA quadrangles and the skills to use them. I make my own path these days. PA still has many wild areas, but the usual spots are inundated with people. "Over loved." |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 10:54:39 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks like a good place to build a Walmart and a Cracker Barrel. 
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Posted: 5/27/2022 10:54:49 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. We did a Yellowstone trip last year, and the crowds around the main attractions were ridiculous. It felt like being at Disney. On the last day, we rented a 4WD and drove up into the mountains to an old mining town. Barely a soul in sight - it felt like we had the entire valley to ourselves. It's the same here on the east coast: anything that's <3 trail miles from a road is overrun, but it's almost totally empty beyond that. I live near yellowstone and avoid it for that reason. Any of the higher profile national parks are like that it seems. You don't have to go very far to get away from people though. |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 10:54:55 AM EDT
[#14]
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Posted: 5/27/2022 10:55:37 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. We did a Yellowstone trip last year, and the crowds around the main attractions were ridiculous. It felt like being at Disney. On the last day, we rented a 4WD and drove up into the mountains to an old mining town. Barely a soul in sight - it felt like we had the entire valley to ourselves. It's the same here on the east coast: anything that's <3 trail miles from a road is overrun, but it's almost totally empty beyond that. This is a bit off topic, but it goes to the concept that after a certain point, most sites are empty. I call it "past the flip flop point." I saw this at Auschwitz Birkenau. Most people don't stray far from the main gate. When you get deep into the camp, I mean all the way to the back gate, you can count on two hands the number of people with you. In some spots, I was alone, which added to the creepiness of the experience. But you had to walk a long way to get there. Point is, you can still count on general mass laziness to find exclusion. |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 10:57:49 AM EDT
[#16]
It sucks. We get bleed over now out on our Mesa from Zions visitors.
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Posted: 5/27/2022 10:58:56 AM EDT
[#17]
I guess I don’t understand. If you think a place is cool, other people probably think it is cool as well and will want to go there. Does anyone really think they are going to have the whole place to themselves?
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Posted: 5/27/2022 10:59:15 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I haven't been in awhile but the Adirondacks on summer weekends had turned into continuous lines of people walking up the well known mountain trails and nowhere to park. I think you have to apply for a ticket ahead of time to some trails. Lots of NYC folks in flip flops with a bottle of water trudging up and down for photos. I did the entire northville placid trail back in 2007, I barely saw another person. I wonder if that's different today? I haven't been back to the 'dacks since that time period, and if it's crowded, I wouldn't want to go. |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:00:25 AM EDT
[#19]
Go when everyone is off then everyone will be there.
Go on a Tuesday and you will have it more to yourself... |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:05:02 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is a bit off topic, but it goes to the concept that after a certain point, most sites are empty. I call it "past the flip flop point." I saw this at Auschwitz Birkenau. Most people don't stray far from the main gate. When you get deep into the camp, I mean all the way to the back gate, you can count on two hands the number of people with you. In some spots, I was alone, which added to the creepiness of the experience. But you had to walk a long way to get there. Point is, you can still count on general mass laziness to find exclusion. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: This. We did a Yellowstone trip last year, and the crowds around the main attractions were ridiculous. It felt like being at Disney. On the last day, we rented a 4WD and drove up into the mountains to an old mining town. Barely a soul in sight - it felt like we had the entire valley to ourselves. It's the same here on the east coast: anything that's <3 trail miles from a road is overrun, but it's almost totally empty beyond that. This is a bit off topic, but it goes to the concept that after a certain point, most sites are empty. I call it "past the flip flop point." I saw this at Auschwitz Birkenau. Most people don't stray far from the main gate. When you get deep into the camp, I mean all the way to the back gate, you can count on two hands the number of people with you. In some spots, I was alone, which added to the creepiness of the experience. But you had to walk a long way to get there. Point is, you can still count on general mass laziness to find exclusion. In addition to the points we've been discussing, another point to consider is that most of those tourons do not even want the same things that we do. They want to see the famous site, have their picture taken in front of it, post it to social media, then go out for burgers and ice cream at night and retire to their hotel room or plush RV. Those people "do" parks, as in, "Oh yeah we were out in MT last summer - we did Yellowstone and Glacier in a week." They are not looking for adventure, solitude or wild places. |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:05:06 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Haha, silly people don't know the dirt road in from Hwy 191 a few miles north of town. Not even a guard gate at the fence line going into the park. sssshhhh |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:06:47 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Too many people in the West is why I hate everybody. There are still good backcountry opportunities. They just require more commitment. Most things worth seeing are worth the walk. Fortunately, most people don't have the same mentality. 
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:06:54 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In addition to the points we've been discussing, another point to consider is that most of those tourons do not even want the same things that we do. They want to see the famous site, have their picture taken in front of it, post it to social media, then go out for burgers and ice cream at night and retire to their hotel room or plush RV. Those people "do" parks, as in, "Oh yeah we were out in MT last summer - we did Yellowstone and Glacier in a week." They are not looking for adventure, solitude or wild places. Ah yeah great point. Instagram has certainly contributed to what we're seeing. Meanwhile, when I went to Glacier for example, while it is also over loved, I was still able to find exclusion by climbing to the tops of bluffs that no one else goes to because they're headed to the "main attraction." I still got heavenly views. I was in a line of perhaps 100 people for a while on the highline trail, but was alone on this bluff.  |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:09:47 AM EDT
[#24]
Where do they all go to the bathroom?
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:12:32 AM EDT
[#25]
I'm all for those crowds. Concentrate the tourists at those popular parks and locations... I'm good with it. Many of our western national parks have scenery that's just as beautiful outside of their boundaries, on national forest or BLM land that gets 1/1000th the traffic.
Arches is a good example. Yeah, the arches themselves are cool. But there is nearby country that's just as cool, if not more so. Maybe not with the same iconic arch, but there are other natural bridges as well. Southern Utah is full of interesting canyonlands, and only a small portion of it is within national parks. Not too far north of Arches is the San Rafael Swell which has some amazing terrain and scenery, and very few visitors. In MT, Glacier National Park gets the tourist crowds doing the GNP-YNP circuit. But not far from that park are some equally spectacular places that don't have paved roads to the top, where you can hike for days and not see a single other human. |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:14:41 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In addition to the points we've been discussing, another point to consider is that most of those tourons do not even want the same things that we do. They want to see the famous site, have their picture taken in front of it, post it to social media, then go out for burgers and ice cream at night and retire to their hotel room or plush RV. Those people "do" parks, as in, "Oh yeah we were out in MT last summer - we did Yellowstone and Glacier in a week." They are not looking for adventure, solitude or wild places.  National Lampoon's Vacation - "The Grand Canyon" - HD |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:14:49 AM EDT
[#27]
I get a kick out of the tourons that spend a day in Glacier, Yellowstone, drive thru the Tetons and hit Rocky Mtn on the way home. They brag about their great outdoor wilderness experience. These are the folks clogging up the parks. I spent a week in Yellowstone and still didn’t feel like I had enough time. And I have been there several times.
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:15:32 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Let me guess, the author is for open borders but wants everything they like to themselves. exactly, just wait for 10 years when we 500 million living here,probably already do |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:16:34 AM EDT
[#29]
I've been to Arches several times. If you go when the weather is tolerable, there will be people everywhere. The worst thing anyone can do for a place is designate it a national park. Just leave it alone and don't tell anyone about it, don't build any roads to it, and it will get far less human traffic.
One time I want to arches and I was setting up my camera on a tripod to get a picture, after searching for an angle that would exclude other people from the shot. Some guy saw this and intentionally walked into my frame and leaned against the rock and shut his eyes and stood there. He ignored attempts to get his attention. Totally spoiled the shot. Anyhow as an amateur photographer I have a trick I want to try next time I go to Arches or really anywhere else crawling with tourists. You set up on a tripod and take a bunch of pictures over a half hour or an hour. Then you can stack them in software and even if every single frame has people in it, as long as they all have moved around, you will eventually get every bit of the scene without people blocking it. Combine the "clear" portions together and you get a picture with no people in it. The only thing that would ruin it are people that go and sit down and take some kind of hours long spiritual meditation or something and don't move the whole time. And there are a LOT of these wackos visiting Moab. |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:21:01 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah. Those Utah NPs are ridiculous. Too many people in the West is why I hate everybody. There are still good backcountry opportunities. They just require more commitment. I was very disappointed in the shoddy Chinese design work shown in Covid. LMAO I say this regularly. My area has been absolutely PACKED with people. Gym, restaurants, parks, city trails, etc. I fuckin' hate people. |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:25:22 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote History |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:26:34 AM EDT
[#32]
Surprise, people want to see pretty places.
The last time we were there everyone was very respectful and waited in a queue off to the side so people could get that iconic photo of standing under the arch without strangers in the picture. This was at the end of EJS so it was busier than usual. Edit: Canyonlands was empty.  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:27:25 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Moab area has become a total shit show. You can buy an RV parking spot in Moab with full hookups for $250k. Not a home, just a concrete pad with sewer, water and electricity. There are owner's association dues as well. |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:28:48 AM EDT
[#34]
There were a few people there when we went in August of 2021, but overall it wasn't busy at all, and there were no cars when we drove into the park...just pulled right up to the booth, showed our card and away we went. Also went back around 11pm and the park was absolutely empty, basically had it to ourselves.
Delicate Arch  Attached FilePark at Midnight  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:29:32 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I did the entire northville placid trail back in 2007, I barely saw another person. I wonder if that's different today? I haven't been back to the 'dacks since that time period, and if it's crowded, I wouldn't want to go. Oh some girl had a bear chase her for a long time in that trail maybe ten years ago.nothing happened but it was a weirdly persistent bear |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:29:43 AM EDT
[#36]
I’ll be sure to write an article about how my favorite Mexican food restaurant is busy Friday nights.
It’s not fair 
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:31:17 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Go when everyone is off then everyone will be there. Go on a Tuesday and you will have it more to yourself... Not it summer. There are no days it isn't packed. |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:31:53 AM EDT
[#38]
We should make replicas for the tourists, like the Constitution and other documents in DC, or the paintings in the big museums.
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:32:11 AM EDT
[#39]
Looks like the aliens should have built them further off the roads.
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:32:30 AM EDT
[#40]
Mt. Everest!
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:33:11 AM EDT
[#41]
When I was in Hawaii I went to the beach a lot and hiked but I didn't go to Waikiki or Diamond Head. Just go to a different part of the park without all those people.
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:34:07 AM EDT
[#42]
Some of those parks function like the General Discussion drawing all the fools in so that the other parks remain fool free (freer?).
Many of the off-road trail in SoCal feature "gatekeepers", obstacles near the start of the trail to give the clueless an idea of what lies in front of them. Not everyone should be running around in our parks. |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:34:28 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. We did a Yellowstone trip last year, and the crowds around the main attractions were ridiculous. It felt like being at Disney. On the last day, we rented a 4WD and drove up into the mountains to an old mining town. Barely a soul in sight - it felt like we had the entire valley to ourselves. It's the same here on the east coast: anything that's <3 trail miles from a road is overrun, but it's almost totally empty beyond that. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Anything that most people have heard of is basically a sacrificial lamb. The Instagram famous spots are ruined. However, it concentrates all of the ding dongs in those places. Lots of empty, wide open country to explore out there. If people don't post about them on social media they'll stay that way. This. We did a Yellowstone trip last year, and the crowds around the main attractions were ridiculous. It felt like being at Disney. On the last day, we rented a 4WD and drove up into the mountains to an old mining town. Barely a soul in sight - it felt like we had the entire valley to ourselves. It's the same here on the east coast: anything that's <3 trail miles from a road is overrun, but it's almost totally empty beyond that. Yup. Feels like Disney. I’ll keep my rugged/empty New Mexico. Gorgeous natural features miles from the closest paved road. Some places that will never be accessible even by horse. |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:35:14 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryWow. A picture worth a thousand words. On the other hand, in PA, no one goes out in winter. I had this entire "popular" area to myself. When I see "snow storm inbound," I head out.Pre storm,  Morning after.  |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:36:17 AM EDT
[#45]
I'm glad i went and spent 2 weeks out there some 25 years ago. I don't recall it being nearly as busy then and when i went to the delicate arch there were 6-8 other people up there.
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:36:37 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In addition to the points we've been discussing, another point to consider is that most of those tourons do not even want the same things that we do. They want to see the famous site, have their picture taken in front of it, post it to social media, then go out for burgers and ice cream at night and retire to their hotel room or plush RV. Those people "do" parks, as in, "Oh yeah we were out in MT last summer - we did Yellowstone and Glacier in a week." They are not looking for adventure, solitude or wild places. Window sticker collectors viewing life through their camera. |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:39:34 AM EDT
[#47]
Also, RIP Dean Potter
 Always think of you whenever I see Delicate Arch lol. |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:41:51 AM EDT
[#48]
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:42:12 AM EDT
[#49]
Crowds at national parks are fairly easy to avoid. Get up Early, it's that simple.
The wife and I hike a week to 10 days in a national park and we get to the trails early, like 6 in the morning early. We almost always have the trails to our own, We are usually done with day hikes and on the way back to truck before noon. |
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Posted: 5/27/2022 11:46:16 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where do they all go to the bathroom? NPS literature is full of admonishments attempting to convince people of the problems that are being caused in (especially on the back trails) with human feces. It's a problem, for sure. |
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