Thoughts on Religious Knowledge (Page 4 of 4)
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Originally Posted By 3xpert: Romans 6:3 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. The full second reading Catholics will hear from the pews tomorrow morning is: A reading from the Letter of Saint Paul to the Romans (Romans 6:3-4, 8-11) Brothers and sisters: Are you unaware that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were indeed buried with him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life. If, then, we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him. We know that Christ, raised from the dead, dies no more; death no longer has power over him. As to his death, he died to sin once and for all; as to his life, he lives for God. Consequently, you too must think of yourselves as dead to sin and living for God in Christ Jesus. R. Thanks be to God. Early this morning BeNotAfraid posted the full Sunday readings here: https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/Catholic-Bible-Study-Thirteenth-Sunday-in-Ordinary-Time-28-JUNE-2026-A-D-/135-2849352/ The Ignatius Catholic Study Bible Bible says: "Paul is alluding to the liturgy of Baptism, where the recipient is submerged in water as a body is buried in a grave, only to rise again to new life with God. (CCC 537, 628, 1214)." |
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Originally Posted By TangoFoxtrot: Tomorrow on Sunday morning in Catholic churches across the USA this quote is part of the second reading. The full second reading Catholics will hear from the pews tomorrow morning is: A reading from the Letter of Saint Paul to the Romans (Romans 6:3-4, 8-11) Brothers and sisters: Are you unaware that we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were indeed buried with him through baptism into death, so that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might live in newness of life. If, then, we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him. We know that Christ, raised from the dead, dies no more; death no longer has power over him. As to his death, he died to sin once and for all; as to his life, he lives for God. Consequently, you too must think of yourselves as dead to sin and living for God in Christ Jesus. R. Thanks be to God. Early this morning BeNotAfraid posted the full Sunday readings here: https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/Catholic-Bible-Study-Thirteenth-Sunday-in-Ordinary-Time-28-JUNE-2026-A-D-/135-2849352/ The Ignatius Catholic Study Bible Bible says: "Paul is alluding to the liturgy of Baptism, where the recipient is submerged in water as a body is buried in a grave, only to rise again to new life with God. (CCC 537, 628, 1214)." Ah so that's tomorrow's epistle reading. Thanks. 
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Originally Posted By Gullskjegg: I want to clear up an apparent misunderstanding. The Church does not and has never claimed that water in itself has the power to wash away sin. In the act of baptizing, the water is the outward sign of an inward grace given by God. We perform the ritual, but it is God who performs the actual baptism. What church is the church you're speaking of here performing the ritual that claims water in itself has no power to wash away sin? Yes, it is GOD the Son who does the baptism of Holy Spirit and fire, just as the forerunner John proclaimed. Why was there a baptism of repentance that JESUS said to John must be fulfilled in all righteousness? It seems that baptism is about the heart, a re-birth of a new heart. Who does JESUS baptize with HOLY SPIRIT and fire? After JESUS baptizes a man or woman they go to the water as an outward sign of an inward grace received to be baptized into HIS death by obedience. |
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Originally Posted By Bishop3: Have you trusted in He who came by water and blood? Have you trusted Him enough to believe what he said about His Body and Blood? As it is the morning of the Lord's Day before the Holy Eucharist, let those of us who will receive begin to prepare ourselves.  Let All Mortal Flesh Keep Silence - Live at the NEC - Lauren Moore |
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I’ve come to the conclusion that those who believe they can’t learn anything from the writings of the early Church fathers and Christians who have came since (such as Aquinas) are trapped in spiritual pride. Whatever they understand is sufficient for them to be saved and that is enough. It is akin to each one learning to create the wheel on his own, rather than seeing that others have done that much earlier. By the grace of God some will come to understand on their own what earlier Christians have plainly stated in their writings many hundreds of years ago. That does not mean the writings were unnecessary, but it does mean that many people waste time. Using their approach, each person who becomes an engineer should avoid studying the laws of physics and principles of math that were discovered by earlier generations. They know 2+2=4, and that is enough. Trying to convince them otherwise is the true waste of time. |
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Originally Posted By wswartzendruber: Have you trusted Him enough to believe what he said about His Body and Blood? As it is the morning of the Lord's Day before the Holy Eucharist, let those of us who will receive begin to prepare ourselves.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqdfBgsZN0EOriginally Posted By wswartzendruber: Originally Posted By Bishop3: Have you trusted in He who came by water and blood? Have you trusted Him enough to believe what he said about His Body and Blood? As it is the morning of the Lord's Day before the Holy Eucharist, let those of us who will receive begin to prepare ourselves. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PqdfBgsZN0E
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Originally Posted By Tech-Com: https://i.imgur.com/NTLABjZ_d.webp?maxwidth=760&fidelity=grand 1. Why are additional books considered so important when even the Gospels record only a small fraction of what Jesus actually did? - We cannot imagine how much has gone unwritten. Since Christ knew exactly what was necessary for us to know, what motivates religions to treat additional writings as essential when Jesus Himself has simplified what is required of us? For John wrote: There are many more things that Jesus did. If all of them were written down, I suppose that not even the world itself would have space for the books that would be written. (John 21:25) 2. Has not Jesus wisely chosen exactly what information we need? - He knows that knowledge can stir up sin within our hearts. We naturally desire for Him to reveal more than He has chosen to reveal, and so we often reach for additional books and teachings. Yet what if the only thing some of these pursuits accomplish is to increase our accountability before God? For Jesus said: If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin. (John 15:22) - Perhaps we should be more grateful for what Christ has chosen to tell us than anxious about what He has chosen to leave unsaid. 3. Here is what you should “know” that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the width and length and depth and height— to “KNOW” the love of Christ which surpasses “KNOWLEDGE”; that you may be filled with all the fullness of God. (Ephesians 3:17-19) 4. Here is the work you should do Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.” (John 6:29) - If even the canonical Gospels contain only a fraction of what Jesus did, why should anyone assume that salvation depends upon mastering large collections of additional writings? The One who knows all things has already chosen what is necessary for us. Therefore let us devote ourselves to believing in Him and knowing the love of Christ, which surpasses knowledge. With Love, Jesse Romans 11:33-36 Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! “For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?” “Or who has given a gift to him that he might be repaid?” For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen. |
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Originally Posted By way: Which one will you believe? Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death CCC 1863 venial sin does not break the covenant with God. With God’s grace it is humanly reparable. “Venial sin does not deprive the sinner of sanctifying grace, friendship with God, charity, and consequently eternal happiness.” You really think all sin is the same? |
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Originally Posted By Mazawakhan: You really think all sin is the same? Originally Posted By Mazawakhan: Originally Posted By way: Which one will you believe? Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death CCC 1863 venial sin does not break the covenant with God. With God’s grace it is humanly reparable. “Venial sin does not deprive the sinner of sanctifying grace, friendship with God, charity, and consequently eternal happiness.” You really think all sin is the same? It's genuinely sad how these people are so focused in their hatred of the Church they can't even pretend to steelman the theology. But, in this case, I have to wonder if he's even read 1 John 5: 14-17. And this is the boldness we have in him, that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have obtained the requests made of him. If you see your brother or sister committing what is not a mortal sin, you will ask, and God will give life to such a one — to those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin that is mortal; I do not say that you should pray about that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not mortal. It's all especially ironic when coming from people who insist scripture tells them they don't need to confess their sins, any sins, to duly-appointed ministers of the Church. |
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Originally Posted By brianm: Our Lord links being born again with the two together, water and Spirit. Why would we presume to disassocaite one from the other, other than try to make it say something it does not? How is a man born of water and Spirit? The answer is clearly and unambiguously through baptism. Originally Posted By brianm: Originally Posted By 3xpert: Jesus did say this, Lets not talk about water baptism, we obviously don't agree on it's purpose. Lets talk about the other side of "and" How is man born of the Holy Spirit? Our Lord links being born again with the two together, water and Spirit. Why would we presume to disassocaite one from the other, other than try to make it say something it does not? How is a man born of water and Spirit? The answer is clearly and unambiguously through baptism. What is this water in John 4:14 that JESUS said HE gives? |
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Originally Posted By Raidersgone: What is this water in John 4:14 that JESUS said HE gives? Water is a Hebrew idiom for life. When a woman is delivering a baby, water and blood flow from her. When our Savior was hanging on the cross, He was pierced with a spear into His side, causing water and blood to flow. He did this for us, so we could be born again. |
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Originally Posted By RSR556: Water is a Hebrew idiom for life. When a woman is delivering a baby, water and blood flow from her. When our Savior was hanging on the cross, He was pierced with a spear into His side, causing water and blood to flow. He did this for us, so we could be born again. Originally Posted By RSR556: Originally Posted By Raidersgone: What is this water in John 4:14 that JESUS said HE gives? Water is a Hebrew idiom for life. When a woman is delivering a baby, water and blood flow from her. When our Savior was hanging on the cross, He was pierced with a spear into His side, causing water and blood to flow. He did this for us, so we could be born again. John baptised Jesus in water. Jesus baptises in the Holy Spirit and fire. Jesus is He who came by water and blood. John 7:37-39 On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’” ~ Jesus Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. 1 John 5:6 This is he who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. |
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Originally Posted By Bishop3: John baptised Jesus in water. Jesus baptises in the Holy Spirit and fire. Jesus is He who came by water and blood. John 7:37-39 On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’” ~ Jesus Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. 1 John 5:6 This is he who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. Originally Posted By Bishop3: Originally Posted By RSR556: Originally Posted By Raidersgone: What is this water in John 4:14 that JESUS said HE gives? Water is a Hebrew idiom for life. When a woman is delivering a baby, water and blood flow from her. When our Savior was hanging on the cross, He was pierced with a spear into His side, causing water and blood to flow. He did this for us, so we could be born again. John baptised Jesus in water. Jesus baptises in the Holy Spirit and fire. Jesus is He who came by water and blood. John 7:37-39 On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’” ~ Jesus Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. 1 John 5:6 This is he who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. Jesus sanctified the waters for baptism at his baptism. |
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Originally Posted By MolonLabeFBHO: Jesus sanctified the waters for baptism at his baptism. Originally Posted By MolonLabeFBHO: Originally Posted By Bishop3: Originally Posted By RSR556: Originally Posted By Raidersgone: What is this water in John 4:14 that JESUS said HE gives? Water is a Hebrew idiom for life. When a woman is delivering a baby, water and blood flow from her. When our Savior was hanging on the cross, He was pierced with a spear into His side, causing water and blood to flow. He did this for us, so we could be born again. John baptised Jesus in water. Jesus baptises in the Holy Spirit and fire. Jesus is He who came by water and blood. John 7:37-39 On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’” ~ Jesus Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. 1 John 5:6 This is he who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. Jesus sanctified the waters for baptism at his baptism. Literally every line he quoted explains that, but he's so hilariously obstinate he can't see it in even his own words. |
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I see you all, arguing semantics. This version says this & that, on & on… however…. Have you ever read the full book of Enoch? He was before the flood, also, he is referenced in the NT, as “he walked with God and was not.” I’ve been astonished at how much he wrote, matching up with many of the Old Testament prophets writing, including referencing Jesus, ‘the chosen one’, and confirming many of the things John wrote in Revelations… I will not get into a philosophical or theological debate, it’s just MHO. If’n you really want to read the Holy Scriptures, the Word of God, the Lord of Spirits, look into the history of the Ethiopian Bible, and why so many books were deleted from the ‘modern’ versions. |
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Originally Posted By Annarchy: I see you all, arguing semantics. This version says this & that, on & on… however…. Have you ever read the full book of Enoch? He was before the flood, also, he is referenced in the NT, as “he walked with God and was not.” I’ve been astonished at how much he wrote, matching up with many of the Old Testament prophets writing, including referencing Jesus, ‘the chosen one’, and confirming many of the things John wrote in Revelations… I will not get into a philosophical or theological debate, it’s just MHO. If’n you really want to read the Holy Scriptures, the Word of God, the Lord of Spirits, look into the history of the Ethiopian Bible, and why so many books were deleted from the ‘modern’ versions. St. Athanasius knew about these writings and dismissed them. The councils at Rome, Hippo, and Carthage followed suit. We can see, therefore, that the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church has rejected the writings of Enoch as Holy Scripture from the very beginning since councils began to consider the matter. Now maybe what is written therein is true, just the same, the Holy Spirit of God has seen fit to steer the Church into not elevating them to the status of Holy Scripture. |
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Originally Posted By wswartzendruber: St. Athanasius knew about these writings and dismissed them. The councils at Rome, Hippo, and Carthage followed suit. We can see, therefore, that the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church has rejected the writings of Enoch as Holy Scripture from the very beginning since councils began to consider the matter. Now maybe what is written therein is true, just the same, the Holy Spirit of God has seen fit to steer the Church into not elevating them to the status of Holy Scripture. Exactly my point. Man decided those books should be dismissed….. Believe what you choose, just be ‘fully persuaded’ in your own mind. It’s been an enlightening journey searching the scriptures removed from the modern Bible. Many of the books, align and confirm, much of what the prophets wrote. If those books agree with what is included in the modern Bible, why wouldn’t you want to read them? What does the Word of God say, in the end times, the deceiver, manifests himself as an angel to deceive, even the most devoted person. |
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Originally Posted By Annarchy: Exactly my point. Man decided those books should be dismissed….. Originally Posted By Annarchy: Exactly my point. Man decided those books should be dismissed….. Not so fast... Originally Posted By Annarchy: Believe what you choose, just be ‘fully persuaded’ in your own mind. It’s been an enlightening journey searching the scriptures removed from the modern Bible. Many of the books, align and confirm, much of what the prophets wrote. If those books agree with what is included in the modern Bible, why wouldn’t you want to read them? I may want to read them. But Jesus also said the Holy Spirit would lead the Church into all truth. If the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church (the undivided Church) discerns that the Book of Enoch doesn't make the cut for Holy Scripture, then that is where the Holy Spirit has lead them. |
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Originally Posted By Raidersgone: What is this water in John 4:14 that JESUS said HE gives? There are three waters in John 4:10-15. 1. The water in the actual well. Are you greater than our father Jacob? He gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did his sons and his livestock.” Jesus said to her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will be thirsty again Jesus is contrasting the normative or natural reaction of water to the body. While drinking quenches a physical thirst, that lasts only a short time. 2. Baptism, the water He will give but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” Jesus is contrasting the metaphysical or supernatural reaction of the water He will give, relieving and eliminating a spiritual thirst once and for all. A) He will give it. As in a future tense. In a total sense. Though Jesus was baptizing through His disciples just a few verses before, the culmination of baptism that He mentions here has not yet come. St. John explains this in chapter 7. B) That it will be given and it will have an actual effect, it will cause something to happen. “The water…will become in him a spring…” C) That the end result of the water after starting a spring or living water is eternal life. 3) Holy Spirit/spring/living water Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that is saying to you, ‘Give me a drink,’ you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.” And. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” Living water. Moving water. Like an active spring or river. Jesus separated the water He will give from the living water that will spring and well up inside from it. One is causal or the medium, the other is the result. Again, St. John explains in chapter 7 this living water, or at least the source of it (i.e. a spring or a river) is the Spirit. I think, IIRC, some Church Fathers interpreted the flowing living water as the grace of the Holy Spirit. The same water and Spirit Jesus said you must be born of. The same water St. Peter said will save you. I apologize if my meager ability to explain things does not sway your mind and heart to the truth. That is my fault and not the weakness of the facts themselves. I now welcome the same ahistorical and heterodox comments, like this is actually John’s baptism or it’s amniotic fluid. 
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Originally Posted By brianm: There are three waters in John 4:10-15. 1. The water in the actual well. Are you greater than our father Jacob? He gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did his sons and his livestock.” Jesus said to her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will be thirsty again Jesus is contrasting the normative or natural reaction of water to the body. While drinking quenches a physical thirst, that lasts only a short time. 2. Baptism, the water He will give but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” Jesus is contrasting the metaphysical or supernatural reaction of the water He will give, relieving and eliminating a spiritual thirst once and for all. A) He will give it. As in a future tense. In a total sense. Though Jesus was baptizing through His disciples just a few verses before, the culmination of baptism that He mentions here has not yet come. St. John explains this in chapter 7. B) That it will be given and it will have an actual effect, it will cause something to happen. “The water…will become in him a spring…” C) That the end result of the water after starting a spring or living water is eternal life. 3) Holy Spirit/spring/living water Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that is saying to you, ‘Give me a drink,’ you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.” And. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” Living water. Moving water. Like an active spring or river. Jesus separated the water He will give from the living water that will spring and well up inside from it. One is causal or the medium, the other is the result. Again, St. John explains in chapter 7 this living water, or at least the source of it (i.e. a spring or a river) is the Spirit. I think, IIRC, some Church Fathers interpreted the flowing living water as the grace of the Holy Spirit. The same water and Spirit Jesus said you must be born of. The same water St. Peter said will save you. I apologize if my meager ability to explain things does not sway your mind and heart to the truth. That is my fault and not the weakness of the facts themselves. I now welcome the same ahistorical and heterodox comments, like this is actually John’s baptism or it’s amniotic fluid. Originally Posted By brianm: Originally Posted By Raidersgone: What is this water in John 4:14 that JESUS said HE gives? There are three waters in John 4:10-15. 1. The water in the actual well. Are you greater than our father Jacob? He gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did his sons and his livestock.” Jesus said to her, “Everyone who drinks of this water will be thirsty again Jesus is contrasting the normative or natural reaction of water to the body. While drinking quenches a physical thirst, that lasts only a short time. 2. Baptism, the water He will give but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him will never be thirsty again. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” Jesus is contrasting the metaphysical or supernatural reaction of the water He will give, relieving and eliminating a spiritual thirst once and for all. A) He will give it. As in a future tense. In a total sense. Though Jesus was baptizing through His disciples just a few verses before, the culmination of baptism that He mentions here has not yet come. St. John explains this in chapter 7. B) That it will be given and it will have an actual effect, it will cause something to happen. “The water…will become in him a spring…” C) That the end result of the water after starting a spring or living water is eternal life. 3) Holy Spirit/spring/living water Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God, and who it is that is saying to you, ‘Give me a drink,’ you would have asked him, and he would have given you living water.” And. The water that I will give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.” Living water. Moving water. Like an active spring or river. Jesus separated the water He will give from the living water that will spring and well up inside from it. One is causal or the medium, the other is the result. Again, St. John explains in chapter 7 this living water, or at least the source of it (i.e. a spring or a river) is the Spirit. I think, IIRC, some Church Fathers interpreted the flowing living water as the grace of the Holy Spirit. The same water and Spirit Jesus said you must be born of. The same water St. Peter said will save you. I apologize if my meager ability to explain things does not sway your mind and heart to the truth. That is my fault and not the weakness of the facts themselves. I now welcome the same ahistorical and heterodox comments, like this is actually John’s baptism or it’s amniotic fluid. RSR556 said water is a Hebrew idiom for life. We know that water and oil is symbolic of the Spirit in the scriptures. Remember about the rock that Moses struck twice? We also know that JESUS was incarnate as a man, a physical body of water and blood. HE became as one of us but without sin to fulfill the atonement sacrifice. When JESUS spoke to Nicodemus and the woman at the well HE was speaking of the Spiritual. The water that would be "in" a born from above believer that HE gives springing up to eternal life. This water HE said to drink of. JESUS did not speak of baptism water that John was calling people to, or that the disciples were also doing. Just as a man can not live without natural water, neither can a man live the everlasting life without the Spiritual water JESUS Himself alone gives. Remember this is all Spiritual. You must be born of water and of the Spirit. How can baptism by natural water cause one to be born again and receive the indwelling HOLY SPIRIT when JESUS Himself told us what gives eternal life? The Holy Spirit giver of the Spiritual water, and the blood of the lamb the Lord JESUS. |
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Originally Posted By MolonLabeFBHO: Jesus sanctified the waters for baptism at his baptism. Originally Posted By MolonLabeFBHO: Originally Posted By Bishop3: Originally Posted By RSR556: Originally Posted By Raidersgone: What is this water in John 4:14 that JESUS said HE gives? Water is a Hebrew idiom for life. When a woman is delivering a baby, water and blood flow from her. When our Savior was hanging on the cross, He was pierced with a spear into His side, causing water and blood to flow. He did this for us, so we could be born again. John baptised Jesus in water. Jesus baptises in the Holy Spirit and fire. Jesus is He who came by water and blood. John 7:37-39 On the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, “If anyone thirsts, let him come to me and drink. Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.’” ~ Jesus Now this he said about the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given, because Jesus was not yet glorified. 1 John 5:6 This is he who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. Jesus sanctified the waters for baptism at his baptism. I encourage you to read the Scriptures for yourself. What does the Holy Bible actually say: 2 Thessalonians 2:13 “But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth.” ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle 1 Peter 1:2 “...according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood...” ~ Peter the Lord's Apostle John 17:17 “Sanctify them in the truth; your word is truth.” ~ Jesus praying to His Father (my Father) 1 Corinthians 6:11 “And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.” ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle Ephesians 5:25–26 “Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word...” ~ Paul the Lord's Apostle Jesus baptises in the Holy Spirit and fire. Matthew 3:13–17 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to John, to be baptized by him. John would have prevented him, saying, “I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?” But Jesus answered him, “Let it be so now, for thus it is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness.” Then he consented. And when Jesus was baptized, immediately he went up from the water, and behold, the heavens were opened to him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him; and behold, a voice from heaven said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased.” ~ Matthew the Lord's Apostle My religion did not save me and I couldn't save myself. Jesus is who He says He is. The Word of God saved me. Jesus is the Son of God. I called on the name of the LORD and He saved me. Thank you Lord! He is Faithful and True. Jesus saves. 1 John 2:27 But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him. 1 John 5:6 This is he who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not by the water only but by the water and the blood. And the Spirit is the one who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. ~ John the Lord's Apostle --- John 19:34-35 But one of the soldiers pierced his side with a spear, and at once there came out blood and water. He who saw it has borne witness—his testimony is true, and he knows that he is telling the truth—that you also may believe. ~ John the Lord's Apostle |
USMC 85-'93 Amphibious YAT-YAS
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Originally Posted By Raidersgone: RSR556 said water is a Hebrew idiom for life. We know that water and oil is symbolic of the Spirit in the scriptures. Remember about the rock that Moses struck twice? We also know that JESUS was incarnate as a man, a physical body of water and blood. HE became as one of us but without sin to fulfill the atonement sacrifice. When JESUS spoke to Nicodemus and the woman at the well HE was speaking of the Spiritual. Originally Posted By Raidersgone: RSR556 said water is a Hebrew idiom for life. We know that water and oil is symbolic of the Spirit in the scriptures. Remember about the rock that Moses struck twice? We also know that JESUS was incarnate as a man, a physical body of water and blood. HE became as one of us but without sin to fulfill the atonement sacrifice. When JESUS spoke to Nicodemus and the woman at the well HE was speaking of the Spiritual. He was speaking of spiritual things. That doesn’t mean spiritual things can’t be visible or have a physical element. That seems to be the disconnect you have. The Holy Spirit, for example, appeared visibly as a dove, yet at the same time immaterial. Yes, the conversation with Nicodemus and the Samaritan women are talking about the same thing and are supposed to be juxtaposed. Both have water and the Spirit distinct but together. The water that would be "in" a born from above believer that HE gives springing up to eternal life. The water he will give becomes a spring. This is a transformative statement. This water HE said to drink of. JESUS did not speak of baptism water that John was calling people to, or that the disciples were also doing. It is not mere coincidence that the first part of John is nearly all about water and baptism. John is clearly laying out what Jesus is speaking about. It does take a bit of ripping text out of context to say both conversations are NOT about baptism when they are surrounded by it. Just as a man can not live without natural water, neither can a man live the everlasting life without the Spiritual water JESUS Himself alone gives. Remember this is all Spiritual. What makes you think the spiritual can’t have a physical element or the physical a spiritual element. Especially when that is clearly the point Jesus is making with baptism, water and the Spirit. You must be born of water and of the Spirit. How can baptism by natural water cause one to be born again and receive the indwelling HOLY SPIRIT when JESUS Himself told us what gives eternal life? “How can this be?” That is a very popular question asked on things Jesus did or said will happen. |
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Originally Posted By brianm: He was speaking of spiritual things. That doesn’t mean spiritual things can’t be visible or have a physical element. That seems to be the disconnect you have. The Holy Spirit, for example, appeared visibly as a dove, yet at the same time immaterial. Yes, the conversation with Nicodemus and the Samaritan women are talking about the same thing and are supposed to be juxtaposed. Both have water and the Spirit distinct but together. The water he will give becomes a spring. This is a transformative statement. It is not mere coincidence that the first part of John is nearly all about water and baptism. John is clearly laying out what Jesus is speaking about. It does take a bit of ripping text out of context to say both conversations are NOT about baptism when they are surrounded by it. What makes you think the spiritual can’t have a physical element or the physical a spiritual element. Especially when that is clearly the point Jesus is making with baptism, water and the Spirit. “How can this be?” That is a very popular question asked on things Jesus did or said will happen. This is our division. You look at the physical element (doing this then that) as needed in the receiving of GOD's life giving Spirit. You say natural water baptism, natural wafer and wine. When it is all by HIS HOLY SPIRIT alone. See John 3:7-8. That which is born of flesh is flesh; and that which is born of Spirit is spirit. John 3:6 Moreover brethren, I would not that you should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; and all did eat the same spiritual meat; and did all drink the same spiritual drink; for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ JESUS. 1Corinthians 10:1-4. |
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Originally Posted By Raidersgone: This is our division. You look at the physical element (doing this then that) as needed in the receiving of GOD's life giving Spirit. You say natural water baptism, natural wafer and wine. When it is all by HIS HOLY SPIRIT alone. See John 3:7-8. That which is born of flesh is flesh; and that which is born of Spirit is spirit. John 3:6 Moreover brethren, I would not that you should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; and all did eat the same spiritual meat; and did all drink the same spiritual drink; for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ JESUS. 1Corinthians 10:1-4. Originally Posted By Raidersgone: Originally Posted By brianm: He was speaking of spiritual things. That doesn’t mean spiritual things can’t be visible or have a physical element. That seems to be the disconnect you have. The Holy Spirit, for example, appeared visibly as a dove, yet at the same time immaterial. Yes, the conversation with Nicodemus and the Samaritan women are talking about the same thing and are supposed to be juxtaposed. Both have water and the Spirit distinct but together. The water he will give becomes a spring. This is a transformative statement. It is not mere coincidence that the first part of John is nearly all about water and baptism. John is clearly laying out what Jesus is speaking about. It does take a bit of ripping text out of context to say both conversations are NOT about baptism when they are surrounded by it. What makes you think the spiritual can’t have a physical element or the physical a spiritual element. Especially when that is clearly the point Jesus is making with baptism, water and the Spirit. “How can this be?” That is a very popular question asked on things Jesus did or said will happen. This is our division. You look at the physical element (doing this then that) as needed in the receiving of GOD's life giving Spirit. You say natural water baptism, natural wafer and wine. When it is all by HIS HOLY SPIRIT alone. See John 3:7-8. That which is born of flesh is flesh; and that which is born of Spirit is spirit. John 3:6 Moreover brethren, I would not that you should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; and all did eat the same spiritual meat; and did all drink the same spiritual drink; for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ JESUS. 1Corinthians 10:1-4. John 3:3 Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.” ~ Jesus Amen, Amen. |
USMC 85-'93 Amphibious YAT-YAS
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Originally Posted By Raidersgone: This is our division. You look at the physical element (doing this then that) as needed in the receiving of GOD's life giving Spirit. You say natural water baptism, natural wafer and wine. When it is all by HIS HOLY SPIRIT alone. See John 3:7-8. That which is born of flesh is flesh; and that which is born of Spirit is spirit. John 3:6 Originally Posted By Raidersgone: This is our division. You look at the physical element (doing this then that) as needed in the receiving of GOD's life giving Spirit. You say natural water baptism, natural wafer and wine. When it is all by HIS HOLY SPIRIT alone. See John 3:7-8. That which is born of flesh is flesh; and that which is born of Spirit is spirit. John 3:6 All things physical or material is not called flesh, certainly not in water’s case. It is needed in so much as God said it is needed. The transformative power comes from God, which is exactly the point of what Jesus is explaining when juxtaposing the water in the well to the water He will give in baptism. The element taken outside the sacrament is just water. That is why the new birth is of water AND Spirit. Moreover brethren, I would not that you should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; and all did eat the same spiritual meat; and did all drink the same spiritual drink; for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ JESUS. 1Corinthians 10:1-4. I’m a bit confused. This passage Paul calls the very real and very physical food they ate (manna) spiritual as well. Does this not prove my point? Likewise when Jesus compares His very flesh, which is both very material and very spiritual, to the manna Paul here also calls spiritual. Or are you implying that the manna they ate was an illusion and merely symbolic? |
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Let me start by saying that I am NOT claiming that Jesus of Nazareth was either a magician, con man, or anything similar. With that out of the way, if we took a number of the world's best current magicians back 2025 years and had them perform, the people of that time would be unable to explain how they accomplished their illusions. Because they couldn't explain away what they observed, the people back then would be more likely to accept what they had seen as miracles. Add in some con man tendencies and the people of 2025 years ago would be more likely to accept whoever performed those illusions as miracle workers or someone "supernatural". I'm not anywhere near ready to believe that a Las Vegas magician is my savior just because I can't explain how he accomplished an illusion. It makes more sense to me to evaluate what the religion says and see if I think those statements would make for a better society. A religion that says I should kill all those who have an alternative point of view is not a religion I would want to be a part of. |
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Originally Posted By brianm: All things physical or material is not called flesh, certainly not in water’s case. It is needed in so much as God said it is needed. The transformative power comes from God, which is exactly the point of what Jesus is explaining when juxtaposing the water in the well to the water He will give in baptism. The element taken outside the sacrament is just water. That is why the new birth is of water AND Spirit. I’m a bit confused. This passage Paul calls the very real and very physical food they ate (manna) spiritual as well. Does this not prove my point? Likewise when Jesus compares His very flesh, which is both very material and very spiritual, to the manna Paul here also calls spiritual. Or are you implying that the manna they ate was an illusion and merely symbolic? Originally Posted By brianm: Originally Posted By Raidersgone: This is our division. You look at the physical element (doing this then that) as needed in the receiving of GOD's life giving Spirit. You say natural water baptism, natural wafer and wine. When it is all by HIS HOLY SPIRIT alone. See John 3:7-8. That which is born of flesh is flesh; and that which is born of Spirit is spirit. John 3:6 All things physical or material is not called flesh, certainly not in water’s case. It is needed in so much as God said it is needed. The transformative power comes from God, which is exactly the point of what Jesus is explaining when juxtaposing the water in the well to the water He will give in baptism. The element taken outside the sacrament is just water. That is why the new birth is of water AND Spirit. Moreover brethren, I would not that you should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; and all did eat the same spiritual meat; and did all drink the same spiritual drink; for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ JESUS. 1Corinthians 10:1-4. I’m a bit confused. This passage Paul calls the very real and very physical food they ate (manna) spiritual as well. Does this not prove my point? Likewise when Jesus compares His very flesh, which is both very material and very spiritual, to the manna Paul here also calls spiritual. Or are you implying that the manna they ate was an illusion and merely symbolic? Either you are spirit is dead in trespasses or alive in Christ. The flesh profits nothing, it is the Spirit who gives us life. It is the 'spirit of man' that is born again not his natural flesh. Maybe read/ study what the Apostle Paul was saying to the Church in Rome (over and again for yourself) Remember, God is a Spirit. He created man: spirit, soul and body. Jesus makes this realized in our life experience (our walk with Him). The mystery is revealed 'Christ in you, the hope of glory'. That material natural part of you will return to dirt. It came first then the spiritual. Oh yes, you are natural (material), but is your spirit alive to God? That is born again. You are alive in Him. He who came by blood and water. You aren't just steak and potatoes, you are a spirit, soul and body. You must be born again too see the Kingdom of God. The natural comes first, then the spiritual. Hebrews 10:36-39 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised. For, “Yet a little while, and the coming one will come and will not delay; but my righteous one shall live by faith, and if he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him.” But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls. 1 John 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him. All of our religious efforts won't do this for us. This is the work of the Holy Spirit. All the glory is His. Meditate on this, chew on it over and again: Romans 8:11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you. 1 Corinthians 3:1-4 "But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way?" I can see here where the Apostle Paul was frustrated with the immaturity. I think too many may be spoon fed by their religion. Jesus is alive. 2 Corinthians 3:6 who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 1 Corinthians 15:45 ESV Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. ~ Jesus |
USMC 85-'93 Amphibious YAT-YAS
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Originally Posted By Genin: Let me start by saying that I am NOT claiming that Jesus of Nazareth was either a magician, con man, or anything similar. With that out of the way, if we took a number of the world's best current magicians back 2025 years and had them perform, the people of that time would be unable to explain how they accomplished their illusions. Because they couldn't explain away what they observed, the people back then would be more likely to accept what they had seen as miracles. Add in some con man tendencies and the people of 2025 years ago would be more likely to accept whoever performed those illusions as miracle workers or someone "supernatural". I'm not anywhere near ready to believe that a Las Vegas magician is my savior just because I can't explain how he accomplished an illusion. It makes more sense to me to evaluate what the religion says and see if I think those statements would make for a better society. A religion that says I should kill all those who have an alternative point of view is not a religion I would want to be a part of. The miracles are one aspect but you also have all the prophecies that were fulfilled through Jesus. |
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Originally Posted By Genin: …It makes more sense to me to evaluate what the religion says and see if I think those statements would make for a better society. A religion that says I should kill all those who have an alternative point of view is not a religion I would want to be a part of. You will find other religions better suited to society than Christianity. Part of why Jesus came was to do away with “society”, since Christianity and human society are enemies. He made it clear that “society” would want to kill us, and we still hear of that to this day. The main focus of Jesus was on the individual’s relationship to the Father through Him. It seems to me that any consideration of society came after. If you see no need to know God Himself and to be reconciled to Him, then there are a lot of alternatives that do not offer that and are more friendly to society. |
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Originally Posted By Bishop3: Either you are spirit is dead in trespasses or alive in Christ. The flesh profits nothing, it is the Spirit who gives us life. It is the 'spirit of man' that is born again not his natural flesh. Maybe read/ study what the Apostle Paul was saying to the Church in Rome (over and again for yourself) Remember, God is a Spirit. He created man: spirit, soul and body. Jesus makes this realized in our life experience (our walk with Him). The mystery is revealed 'Christ in you, the hope of glory'. That material natural part of you will return to dirt. It came first then the spiritual. Oh yes, you are natural (material), but is your spirit alive to God? That is born again. You are alive in Him. He who came by blood and water. You aren't just steak and potatoes, you are a spirit, soul and body. You must be born again too see the Kingdom of God. The natural comes first, then the spiritual. Hebrews 10:36-39 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised. For, “Yet a little while, and the coming one will come and will not delay; but my righteous one shall live by faith, and if he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him.” But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls. 1 John 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him. All of our religious efforts won't do this for us. This is the work of the Holy Spirit. All the glory is His. Meditate on this, chew on it over and again: Romans 8:11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you. 1 Corinthians 3:1-4 "But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way?" I can see here where the Apostle Paul was frustrated with the immaturity. I think too many may be spoon fed by their religion. Jesus is alive. 2 Corinthians 3:6 who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 1 Corinthians 15:45 ESV Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. ~ Jesus Originally Posted By Bishop3: Originally Posted By brianm: Originally Posted By Raidersgone: This is our division. You look at the physical element (doing this then that) as needed in the receiving of GOD's life giving Spirit. You say natural water baptism, natural wafer and wine. When it is all by HIS HOLY SPIRIT alone. See John 3:7-8. That which is born of flesh is flesh; and that which is born of Spirit is spirit. John 3:6 All things physical or material is not called flesh, certainly not in water’s case. It is needed in so much as God said it is needed. The transformative power comes from God, which is exactly the point of what Jesus is explaining when juxtaposing the water in the well to the water He will give in baptism. The element taken outside the sacrament is just water. That is why the new birth is of water AND Spirit. Moreover brethren, I would not that you should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; and all did eat the same spiritual meat; and did all drink the same spiritual drink; for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ JESUS. 1Corinthians 10:1-4. I’m a bit confused. This passage Paul calls the very real and very physical food they ate (manna) spiritual as well. Does this not prove my point? Likewise when Jesus compares His very flesh, which is both very material and very spiritual, to the manna Paul here also calls spiritual. Or are you implying that the manna they ate was an illusion and merely symbolic? Either you are spirit is dead in trespasses or alive in Christ. The flesh profits nothing, it is the Spirit who gives us life. It is the 'spirit of man' that is born again not his natural flesh. Maybe read/ study what the Apostle Paul was saying to the Church in Rome (over and again for yourself) Remember, God is a Spirit. He created man: spirit, soul and body. Jesus makes this realized in our life experience (our walk with Him). The mystery is revealed 'Christ in you, the hope of glory'. That material natural part of you will return to dirt. It came first then the spiritual. Oh yes, you are natural (material), but is your spirit alive to God? That is born again. You are alive in Him. He who came by blood and water. You aren't just steak and potatoes, you are a spirit, soul and body. You must be born again too see the Kingdom of God. The natural comes first, then the spiritual. Hebrews 10:36-39 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised. For, “Yet a little while, and the coming one will come and will not delay; but my righteous one shall live by faith, and if he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him.” But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls. 1 John 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him. All of our religious efforts won't do this for us. This is the work of the Holy Spirit. All the glory is His. Meditate on this, chew on it over and again: Romans 8:11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you. 1 Corinthians 3:1-4 "But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way?" I can see here where the Apostle Paul was frustrated with the immaturity. I think too many may be spoon fed by their religion. Jesus is alive. 2 Corinthians 3:6 who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 1 Corinthians 15:45 ESV Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. ~ Jesus Amen, the WORD of GOD. Post #23 also. Only JESUS gives His life giving Spirit that saves a man. Again, John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all (profiteth nothing): the words I have spoken to you they are Spirit, and they are life. Many are not discerning what JESUS told us as recorded by John 6:28-58. These words are Spirit and life. These are not elements of the earth. Yes JESUS came in a real physical body to accomplish the spiritual eternal. |
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Originally Posted By Raidersgone: Amen, the WORD of GOD. Post #23 also. Only JESUS gives His life giving Spirit that saves a man. Again, John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all (profiteth nothing): the words I have spoken to you they are Spirit, and they are life. Many are not discerning what JESUS told us as recorded by John 6:28-58. These words are Spirit and life. These are not elements of the earth. Yes JESUS came in a real physical body to accomplish the spiritual eternal. Originally Posted By Raidersgone: Originally Posted By Bishop3: Originally Posted By brianm: Originally Posted By Raidersgone: This is our division. You look at the physical element (doing this then that) as needed in the receiving of GOD's life giving Spirit. You say natural water baptism, natural wafer and wine. When it is all by HIS HOLY SPIRIT alone. See John 3:7-8. That which is born of flesh is flesh; and that which is born of Spirit is spirit. John 3:6 All things physical or material is not called flesh, certainly not in water’s case. It is needed in so much as God said it is needed. The transformative power comes from God, which is exactly the point of what Jesus is explaining when juxtaposing the water in the well to the water He will give in baptism. The element taken outside the sacrament is just water. That is why the new birth is of water AND Spirit. Moreover brethren, I would not that you should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; and all did eat the same spiritual meat; and did all drink the same spiritual drink; for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ JESUS. 1Corinthians 10:1-4. I’m a bit confused. This passage Paul calls the very real and very physical food they ate (manna) spiritual as well. Does this not prove my point? Likewise when Jesus compares His very flesh, which is both very material and very spiritual, to the manna Paul here also calls spiritual. Or are you implying that the manna they ate was an illusion and merely symbolic? Either you are spirit is dead in trespasses or alive in Christ. The flesh profits nothing, it is the Spirit who gives us life. It is the 'spirit of man' that is born again not his natural flesh. Maybe read/ study what the Apostle Paul was saying to the Church in Rome (over and again for yourself) Remember, God is a Spirit. He created man: spirit, soul and body. Jesus makes this realized in our life experience (our walk with Him). The mystery is revealed 'Christ in you, the hope of glory'. That material natural part of you will return to dirt. It came first then the spiritual. Oh yes, you are natural (material), but is your spirit alive to God? That is born again. You are alive in Him. He who came by blood and water. You aren't just steak and potatoes, you are a spirit, soul and body. You must be born again too see the Kingdom of God. The natural comes first, then the spiritual. Hebrews 10:36-39 For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God you may receive what is promised. For, “Yet a little while, and the coming one will come and will not delay; but my righteous one shall live by faith, and if he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him.” But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls. 1 John 5:1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him. All of our religious efforts won't do this for us. This is the work of the Holy Spirit. All the glory is His. Meditate on this, chew on it over and again: Romans 8:11 If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you. 1 Corinthians 3:1-4 "But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it. And even now you are not yet ready, for you are still of the flesh. For while there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not of the flesh and behaving only in a human way?" I can see here where the Apostle Paul was frustrated with the immaturity. I think too many may be spoon fed by their religion. Jesus is alive. 2 Corinthians 3:6 who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. 1 Corinthians 15:45 ESV Thus it is written, “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. ~ Jesus Amen, the WORD of GOD. Post #23 also. Only JESUS gives His life giving Spirit that saves a man. Again, John 6:63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all (profiteth nothing): the words I have spoken to you they are Spirit, and they are life. Many are not discerning what JESUS told us as recorded by John 6:28-58. These words are Spirit and life. These are not elements of the earth. Yes JESUS came in a real physical body to accomplish the spiritual eternal. And yet He let the majority of His followers walk away? Over mere symbolism? |
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Originally Posted By Gullskjegg: And yet He let the majority of His followers walk away? Over mere symbolism? Yes, and sadly they did not believe Him who is the Word of God (see John 1:1-14). Do you believe the Word of God? Jesus went all the Way for you and I personally. However, both you and I could walk away in unbelief too. Even Judas, his friend, betrayed Him. We have not arrived, yet. Are you a symbol or are you a real man? What has the Apostle Paul said about us (His Church)? 1 Corinthians 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. Test yourself <--- 'Christ in you, the hope of glory' 1 John 5:4-5 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? Do you believe Jesus personally died for your sin, do you believe he was buried and believe that God has raised him from the dead on the third day? Jesus is the Son of God, He is a real man. "The Word became flesh... " John 6:63, 67-69 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. --- So Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you want to go away as well?” Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life, and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.” St John 4:24 DRC1752 God is a spirit; and they that adore him, must adore him in spirit and in truth. Jesus is LORD. |
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Originally Posted By Bishop3: Yes, and sadly they did not believe Him who is the Word of God (see John 1:1-14). Do you believe the Word of God? Jesus went all the Way for you and I personally. However, both you and I could walk away in unbelief too. Even Judas, his friend, betrayed Him. We have not arrived, yet. Are you a symbol or are you a real man? What has the Apostle Paul said about us (His Church)? 1 Corinthians 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. Test yourself <--- 'Christ in you, the hope of glory' 1 John 5:4-5 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? Do you believe Jesus personally died for your sin, do you believe he was buried and believe that God has raised him from the dead on the third day? Jesus is the Son of God, He is a real man. "The Word became flesh... " John 6:63, 67-69 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. --- So Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you want to go away as well?” Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life, and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.” St John 4:24 DRC1752 God is a spirit; and they that adore him, must adore him in spirit and in truth. Jesus is LORD. Originally Posted By Bishop3: Originally Posted By Gullskjegg: And yet He let the majority of His followers walk away? Over mere symbolism? Yes, and sadly they did not believe Him who is the Word of God (see John 1:1-14). Do you believe the Word of God? Jesus went all the Way for you and I personally. However, both you and I could walk away in unbelief too. Even Judas, his friend, betrayed Him. We have not arrived, yet. Are you a symbol or are you a real man? What has the Apostle Paul said about us (His Church)? 1 Corinthians 12:27 Now you are the body of Christ and individually members of it. Test yourself <--- 'Christ in you, the hope of glory' 1 John 5:4-5 For everyone who has been born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith. Who is it that overcomes the world except the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God? Do you believe Jesus personally died for your sin, do you believe he was buried and believe that God has raised him from the dead on the third day? Jesus is the Son of God, He is a real man. "The Word became flesh... " John 6:63, 67-69 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. --- So Jesus said to the twelve, “Do you want to go away as well?” Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life, and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.” St John 4:24 DRC1752 God is a spirit; and they that adore him, must adore him in spirit and in truth. Jesus is LORD. Paul wrote to communities of baptized Christians who recognized him as an ordained minister and teacher duly appointed by a larger authority structure. Acts is where you find details about how the Church approached people not yet in the Church. |
History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which Trump is always right.
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Originally Posted By brianm: All things physical or material is not called flesh, certainly not in water’s case. It is needed in so much as God said it is needed. The transformative power comes from God, which is exactly the point of what Jesus is explaining when juxtaposing the water in the well to the water He will give in baptism. The element taken outside the sacrament is just water. That is why the new birth is of water AND Spirit. I’m a bit confused. This passage Paul calls the very real and very physical food they ate (manna) spiritual as well. Does this not prove my point? Likewise when Jesus compares His very flesh, which is both very material and very spiritual, to the manna Paul here also calls spiritual. Or are you implying that the manna they ate was an illusion and merely symbolic? You asked if I was implying that the manna GOD sent was an illusion. The food that GOD sent was for them a reminder to their grumbling, reminding them again of the everlasting life that HE alone gives. HE sent quails also. They ate both a still died in the desert, many in their sins spiritually. Man shall not live by bread alone but, by every WORD that proceedeth from the mouth of GOD. The WORD JESUS came down from heaven, the bread of life. Read again JESUS' words, John 6:31-35. Are you listening to JESUS or man and his religion for discernment? You can not drink natural water, be baptized by another man like John the Baptist, or eat natural unleavened bread/manna and receive GOD's life giving Spirit. There is a circumcision of the heart. A baptism of the HOLY SPIRIT and fire. Who gives this new heart? |
