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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:55:02 PM EDT
[#1]
MIC FTW
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Posted: 2/24/2021 9:55:58 PM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:04:04 PM EDT
[#3]
That guy is an idiot.
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:06:12 PM EDT
[#4]
The author and I have very different recollections of the JSF program requirements, development, EMD, and the such.
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:08:47 PM EDT
[#5]
I went to EAA (20 mins away) and there was a Marine F35 there with a rope around it. Towards the end of the day the pilot walked up to answer questions with his very hot gf/fuck buddy. They talked for a bit a big ol kiss and then he ripped down the runway. Never been so jealous in my life.
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:11:04 PM EDT
[#6]
China thanks you for your service.
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:11:19 PM EDT
[#7]
The idea that the air force will ever by another 1,000 single type planes of any kind is akin to thinking the navy will one day have a 600 fleet navy.
Shit's too expensive. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:12:18 PM EDT
[#8]
Oh, wait, this is the War is Boring guy?
Their stuff sucks. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:13:35 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The idea that the air force will ever by another 1,000 single type planes of any kind is akin to thinking the navy will one day have a 600 fleet navy. Shit's to expensive. The hovering VTOL shit should have been laughed out of the room. Instead, here we are. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:14:08 PM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:14:57 PM EDT
[#11]
One of the first thing Zero did was to cancel the F-22 before we had taken delivery of all of them. They said it was because you didn't need a $120m fighter to fight terrorists. Unlike Shrub, Obama was smart and wise!
A couple month later, Obama was passing though Alaska on a refueling stop, and would be getting off Air Force one to give a speech to the airmen on the joint base. It was winter, so it was going to be in a hanger. The base wanted to show off they were one of the few bases with the state-of-the-art F-22, but the advance people freaked, because the optics of Obama speaking in front of the fighter he canceled would look bad. So they moved the F-22 out and brought in an old F-15c as the backdrop. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:18:59 PM EDT
[#12]
Only one way to find out....
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:20:29 PM EDT
[#13]
Maybe we should talk to Sweden.
 Attached Filehttps://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/smart-fighter-180976751/ |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:20:56 PM EDT
[#14]
  
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:22:01 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One of the first thing Zero did was to cancel the F-22 before we had taken delivery of all of them. They said it was because you didn't need a $120m fighter to fight terrorists. Unlike Shrub, Obama was smart and wise! A couple month later, Obama was passing though Alaska on a refueling stop, and would be getting off Air Force one to give a speech to the airmen on the joint base. It was winter, so it was going to be in a hanger. The base wanted to show off they were one of the few bases with the state-of-the-art F-22, but the advance people freaked, because the optics of Obama speaking in front of the fighter he canceled would look bad. So they moved the F-22 out and brought in an old F-15c as the backdrop. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:22:50 PM EDT
[#16]
People who speculate about these types of weapons systems have no fucking clue what they are talking about.
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:25:59 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The final F-22 tail number more or less a done deal before Obama was even a US Senator. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: One of the first thing Zero did was to cancel the F-22 before we had taken delivery of all of them. They said it was because you didn't need a $120m fighter to fight terrorists. Unlike Shrub, Obama was smart and wise! A couple month later, Obama was passing though Alaska on a refueling stop, and would be getting off Air Force one to give a speech to the airmen on the joint base. It was winter, so it was going to be in a hanger. The base wanted to show off they were one of the few bases with the state-of-the-art F-22, but the advance people freaked, because the optics of Obama speaking in front of the fighter he canceled would look bad. So they moved the F-22 out and brought in an old F-15c as the backdrop. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:26:09 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The idea that the air force will ever by another 1,000 single type planes of any kind is akin to thinking the navy will one day have a 600 fleet navy. Shit's too expensive. 
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:27:43 PM EDT
[#19]
LOL Fuckin Forbes.
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:30:24 PM EDT
[#20]
I have a good friend and co-worker who just transitioned from F-16s to F-35s last year. When I asked him what he thought of he said while the F-16 was the slightly better raw performer in terms of dogfighting the F-35 was leaps and bounds better in every other respect (integration of stealth, radar, avionics, weapons, etc) that it wasn't even close and definitely the one he'd go to war in. The damn thing is just too expensive.
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:32:18 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ??? I thought he canceled the program before they had all been delivered. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: One of the first thing Zero did was to cancel the F-22 before we had taken delivery of all of them. They said it was because you didn't need a $120m fighter to fight terrorists. Unlike Shrub, Obama was smart and wise! A couple month later, Obama was passing though Alaska on a refueling stop, and would be getting off Air Force one to give a speech to the airmen on the joint base. It was winter, so it was going to be in a hanger. The base wanted to show off they were one of the few bases with the state-of-the-art F-22, but the advance people freaked, because the optics of Obama speaking in front of the fighter he canceled would look bad. So they moved the F-22 out and brought in an old F-15c as the backdrop. The USAF originally envisioned ordering 750 ATFs at a total program cost of $44.3 billion and procurement cost of $26.2 billion in fiscal year (FY) 1985 dollars, with production beginning in 1994. The 1990 Major Aircraft Review led by Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney reduced this to 648 aircraft beginning in 1996. By 1997, funding instability had further cut the total to 339, which was again reduced to 277 by 2003.[27] In 2004, the Department of Defense (DoD) further reduced this to 183 operational aircraft, despite the USAF's preference for 381.[28][29] A multi-year procurement plan was implemented in 2006 to save $15 billion, with total program cost projected to be $62 billion for 183 F-22s distributed to seven combat squadrons.[30] In 2008, Congress passed a defense spending bill that raised the total orders for production aircraft to 187.[31][32] |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:35:36 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ??? I thought he canceled the program before they had all been delivered. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: One of the first thing Zero did was to cancel the F-22 before we had taken delivery of all of them. They said it was because you didn't need a $120m fighter to fight terrorists. Unlike Shrub, Obama was smart and wise! A couple month later, Obama was passing though Alaska on a refueling stop, and would be getting off Air Force one to give a speech to the airmen on the joint base. It was winter, so it was going to be in a hanger. The base wanted to show off they were one of the few bases with the state-of-the-art F-22, but the advance people freaked, because the optics of Obama speaking in front of the fighter he canceled would look bad. So they moved the F-22 out and brought in an old F-15c as the backdrop. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:38:58 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Too many missions for one platform. The hovering VTOL shit should have been laughed out of the room. Instead, here we are. That aircraft has enabled nations without CATOBAR to put super-sonic stealth planes on helicopter destroyers. Or...basically wherever else they want to put them. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:46:33 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People who speculate about these types of weapons systems have no fucking clue what they are talking about. I absolutely love getting "schooled" on GD on matters of combat airpower from people who have no fucking clue what they're talking about, yet feel that because they play DCS or have a subscription to Aviation Week they can speak on the topics with some authority. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:47:27 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are right. They were all delivered, Obama just said he'd veto if Congress tried to buy any more. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: One of the first thing Zero did was to cancel the F-22 before we had taken delivery of all of them. They said it was because you didn't need a $120m fighter to fight terrorists. Unlike Shrub, Obama was smart and wise! A couple month later, Obama was passing though Alaska on a refueling stop, and would be getting off Air Force one to give a speech to the airmen on the joint base. It was winter, so it was going to be in a hanger. The base wanted to show off they were one of the few bases with the state-of-the-art F-22, but the advance people freaked, because the optics of Obama speaking in front of the fighter he canceled would look bad. So they moved the F-22 out and brought in an old F-15c as the backdrop. The USAF originally envisioned ordering 750 ATFs at a total program cost of $44.3 billion and procurement cost of $26.2 billion in fiscal year (FY) 1985 dollars, with production beginning in 1994. The 1990 Major Aircraft Review led by Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney reduced this to 648 aircraft beginning in 1996. By 1997, funding instability had further cut the total to 339, which was again reduced to 277 by 2003.[27] In 2004, the Department of Defense (DoD) further reduced this to 183 operational aircraft, despite the USAF's preference for 381.[28][29] A multi-year procurement plan was implemented in 2006 to save $15 billion, with total program cost projected to be $62 billion for 183 F-22s distributed to seven combat squadrons.[30] In 2008, Congress passed a defense spending bill that raised the total orders for production aircraft to 187.[31][32] |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:50:40 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a good friend and co-worker who just transitioned from F-16s to F-35s last year. When I asked him what he thought of he said while the F-16 was the slightly better raw performer in terms of dogfighting the F-35 was leaps and bounds better in every other respect (integration of stealth, radar, avionics, weapons, etc) that it wasn't even close and definitely the one he'd go to war in. The damn thing is just too expensive. This is exactly the same thing I hear from former bros of mine who left the F-15E to fly the F-35. I have a little experience with it, as I was a test subject when they were doing JSF cockpit development back in the very late 90s, and I have fought F-35s in the F-15E. Although "Fat Amy" certainly doesn't win first place in the swimsuit competition, she excels in the talent competition, especially when compared to just about anything 4th gen. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 10:53:29 PM EDT
[#27]
Airforce is just the Army with wings.
They love spending money on bullshit that will never happen They dont want a platform that other branches use |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 11:06:10 PM EDT
[#28]
The investors like it.
btw: Do they still have to use the special fueling equipment that keeps the fuel refrigerated or whatever? |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 11:14:38 PM EDT
[#29]
Restart the F-14 production line. Don't talk to me about cost!
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Posted: 2/24/2021 11:55:04 PM EDT
[#30]
Super Tucano for cheap and light and cas. Could probably also win in dogfighting a helo or Cessna 172.
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Posted: 2/24/2021 11:57:05 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That aircraft has enabled nations without CATOBAR to put super-sonic stealth planes on helicopter destroyers. Or...basically wherever else they want to put them. Yep - For countries like Japan, it is nothing short of revolutionary. |
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Posted: 2/24/2021 11:57:20 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That guy is an idiot. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 12:15:20 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This is exactly the same thing I hear from former bros of mine who left the F-15E to fly the F-35. I have a little experience with it, as I was a test subject when they were doing JSF cockpit development back in the very late 90s, and I have fought F-35s in the F-15E. Although "Fat Amy" certainly doesn't win first place in the swimsuit competition, she excels in the talent competition, especially when compared to just about anything 4th gen. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have a good friend and co-worker who just transitioned from F-16s to F-35s last year. When I asked him what he thought of he said while the F-16 was the slightly better raw performer in terms of dogfighting the F-35 was leaps and bounds better in every other respect (integration of stealth, radar, avionics, weapons, etc) that it wasn't even close and definitely the one he'd go to war in. The damn thing is just too expensive. This is exactly the same thing I hear from former bros of mine who left the F-15E to fly the F-35. I have a little experience with it, as I was a test subject when they were doing JSF cockpit development back in the very late 90s, and I have fought F-35s in the F-15E. Although "Fat Amy" certainly doesn't win first place in the swimsuit competition, she excels in the talent competition, especially when compared to just about anything 4th gen. That's a great way to put it. He's heard similar remarks from others.. former F-15s, F-16s, and F-18 pilots. From an fusion perspective they're just barely scratching the surface on what the plane is capable of and the more combat sorties it sees the more they all collectively learn. While I think the design is hampered by the VSTOL requirement.. I can only imagine what it's like transitioning from an AV-8B to an F-35, must be a new universe for those guys 
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Posted: 2/25/2021 12:27:59 AM EDT
[#34]
A Brewster Buffalo for the 21st century.
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:00:15 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The investors like it. btw: Do they still have to use the special fueling equipment that keeps the fuel refrigerated or whatever? |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:03:08 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Super Tucano for cheap and light and cas. Could probably also win in dogfighting a helo or Cessna 172. Don't kid yourself about dogfighting helos. A rotary-wing gets the jump on you, and you're dead. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:09:04 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One of the first thing Zero did was to cancel the F-22 before we had taken delivery of all of them. They said it was because you didn't need a $120m fighter to fight terrorists. Unlike Shrub, Obama was smart and wise! A couple month later, Obama was passing though Alaska on a refueling stop, and would be getting off Air Force one to give a speech to the airmen on the joint base. It was winter, so it was going to be in a hanger. The base wanted to show off they were one of the few bases with the state-of-the-art F-22, but the advance people freaked, because the optics of Obama speaking in front of the fighter he canceled would look bad. So they moved the F-22 out and brought in an old F-15c as the backdrop. Lockheed has preserved all F-22 tooling and could immediately resume production if orders are sent. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:11:17 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lockheed has preserved all F-22 tooling and could immediately resume production if orders are sent. That's not at all true. Lockheed has admitted that they don't have the equipment or technical expertise to start production again. A lot of the people who designed and produced the aircraft are retired now.. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:12:11 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe we should talk to Sweden. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/6163/DSC0437-1024x683_jpg-1840141.JPG https://www.airspacemag.com/military-aviation/smart-fighter-180976751/ There's a very good reason why we got rid of the round parts of the plane. Modern digital radar operators will love this 50 year old design! I bet it has antique license plates. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:12:15 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lockheed has preserved all F-22 tooling and could immediately resume production if orders are sent. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: One of the first thing Zero did was to cancel the F-22 before we had taken delivery of all of them. They said it was because you didn't need a $120m fighter to fight terrorists. Unlike Shrub, Obama was smart and wise! A couple month later, Obama was passing though Alaska on a refueling stop, and would be getting off Air Force one to give a speech to the airmen on the joint base. It was winter, so it was going to be in a hanger. The base wanted to show off they were one of the few bases with the state-of-the-art F-22, but the advance people freaked, because the optics of Obama speaking in front of the fighter he canceled would look bad. So they moved the F-22 out and brought in an old F-15c as the backdrop. Lockheed has preserved all F-22 tooling and could immediately resume production if orders are sent. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:12:47 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's not at all true. Lockheed has admitted that they don't have the equipment or technical expertise to start production again. A lot of the people who designed and produced the aircraft are retired now.. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Lockheed has preserved all F-22 tooling and could immediately resume production if orders are sent. That's not at all true. Lockheed has admitted that they don't have the equipment or technical expertise to start production again. A lot of the people who designed and produced the aircraft are retired now.. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:18:19 AM EDT
[#42]
How many anti-white supremacy leaflets can it deliver per second? That is the true measure of a successful platform.
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Posted: 2/25/2021 1:52:21 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryWonder what’s in those bulges on the wing. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:06:15 AM EDT
[#44]
By the time you pay for new R&D for a new airframe, and stuff it with the same wizbang electronics that you already use in the F-35, it will end up being more expensive than just buying more F-35s.
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Posted: 2/25/2021 2:52:40 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wonder what’s in those bulges on the wing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Wonder what’s in those bulges on the wing. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 3:05:36 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Electrohydraulics. Might not sound like much, but the F-35 has a radically different hydraulic system compared to its predecessors. The F-35 follows MEA, More Electric Aircraft concept. Instead of having a centralized duplex hydraulic system of pressurized lines, it utilizes a federated system of electrohydraulics that don't have interconnected hydraulic lines. So are the bulges space for the hydraulic pumps? |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 3:06:06 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Too many missions for one platform. The hovering VTOL shit should have been laughed out of the room. Instead, here we are. You realize that being able to do stuff while hovering in midair isn't the point of VTOL, right? I know Call of Duty 4 had that Harrier killstreak where the jet shoots at people while hovering in place, but that's not what VTOL is actually for in real life. The point is to be able to operate the aircraft from platforms where you don't have a long enough runway to take off and land conventionally. Japan is operating F-35s from ships that were originally designed just for helicopters and don't even have runways. |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 3:08:46 AM EDT
[#48]
The F35 is selling like hot cakes around the world.
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Posted: 2/25/2021 3:12:27 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So are the bulges space for the hydraulic pumps? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Electrohydraulics. Might not sound like much, but the F-35 has a radically different hydraulic system compared to its predecessors. The F-35 follows MEA, More Electric Aircraft concept. Instead of having a centralized duplex hydraulic system of pressurized lines, it utilizes a federated system of electrohydraulics that don't have interconnected hydraulic lines. So are the bulges space for the hydraulic pumps? |
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Posted: 2/25/2021 3:17:22 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You realize that being able to do stuff while hovering in midair isn't the point of VTOL, right? I know Call of Duty 4 had that Harrier killstreak where the jet shoots at people while hovering in place, but that's not what VTOL is actually for in real life. The point is to be able to operate the aircraft from platforms where you don't have a long enough runway to take off and land conventionally. Japan is operating F-35s from ships that were originally designed just for helicopters and don't even have runways. And don't forget the HMS Queen Elizabeth carrying 60 of them. |
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