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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 3:46:48 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By southerncross: They got blueprints on structural designs and it's been a money sink for them to try and figure it out. They don't have the capability to design/engineer/produce an F35 even if we gave them everything. They don't have the capability to produce a performance level that is even close. |
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USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 4:05:02 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By warlord: Sorry, old age is setting in, I am starting to lose it. Don't let the young Whippersnappers get to you!! 
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Posted: 4/25/2024 9:02:15 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gamma762: Japan wanted to pay for exactly that, and the US told them no. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Gamma762: Originally Posted By cyclone: Originally Posted By dorobuta: Originally Posted By burnka871: Stripped down F-22? It has a 20 year technology difference lol FPNI. The F-22 wishes it had the technology of the F-35... It should have the tech of the F-35 and should still be rolling off the assembly lines Japan wanted to pay for exactly that, and the US told them no. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 9:28:59 AM EDT
[#4]
If you think that's interesting, you should go check out what's abalone for the NGAD fighter and the fxx (not much is abalone publicly but it make us think of star wars, combined cycle rotation detonation engines, directed power, and the 3 drones with AI with ever fighter..
https://youtu.be/p63R-Ypzz2Y?si=LlIAFobDR8eAu-Jw |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 9:33:40 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIMARS13A: The Chinese plan to deal with F22s and F16s is to kill them on the ground. Because they can't do it when they are in the air. Yup. They aren't building those thousands upon thousands of long-range missiles for nothin' |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 9:37:08 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By castlebravo84: Yeah, and we should have 500 Seawolf class subs, 50 Ford class carriers, at least a half dozen Jupiter class Battlestars, and no taxes whatsoever. Your terms are acceptable. Taxes are just there to help control inflation. We print all the money we need. If we cut back the bullshit and went to tariffs instead of slavery we could probably get there and cut the budget. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 9:43:57 AM EDT
[#7]
 Get to building - |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 9:44:22 AM EDT
[#8]
Why didn't Maverick use the F-35?
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Posted: 4/25/2024 9:55:40 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wildearp: Why didn't Maverick use the F-35? The in universe reason was utter nonsense. In our universe it was because they weren't allowed to film the inside of the cockpit. But Lockheed still wanted to get that sweet product placement oppurtunity. So they did the Darkstar sequence instead even though it barely made any sense in the context of the story and left a lot of people concluding that the rest of the film was Captain Mitchell's dying hallucination. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 9:59:12 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: The in universe reason was utter nonsense. In our universe it was because they weren't allowed to film the inside of the cockpit. But Lockheed still wanted to get that sweet product placement oppurtunity. So they did the Darkstar sequence instead even though it barely made any sense in the context of the story and left a lot of people concluding that the rest of the film was Captain Mitchell's dying hallucination. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Originally Posted By wildearp: Why didn't Maverick use the F-35? The in universe reason was utter nonsense. In our universe it was because they weren't allowed to film the inside of the cockpit. But Lockheed still wanted to get that sweet product placement oppurtunity. So they did the Darkstar sequence instead even though it barely made any sense in the context of the story and left a lot of people concluding that the rest of the film was Captain Mitchell's dying hallucination. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:07:52 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By crownvic96: There's no 2 seat F-35's either. Part of what really made Maverick great was the in-plane action shots that made it look like they were "flying" although they were in the back seat. If it didn't have that the movie would have been a total turd. I think they could have done the last combat scene with a C or B model F-35 and had it look good and even made sense in context. They shouldn't have been able to sneak up on a Su-57 in an overloaded F/A-18. But they could have snuck up on it in an F-35. Hangman wouldn't have been pulling serious Gs at that moment. But... Well, we got the movie we got and I would say it was still pretty good. What sticks with me though is that the original Top Gun was one of the greatest recruiting tools the US military has ever had and while Maverick was certainly a commercial success. It doesn't seem to have caused too much of an uptick in interest in young people becoming fighter pilots. As I keep saying to anyone who will listen. Flying fighter aircraft is objectively one of the most exciting things humans can do and I think it really says something that there's so many layers of bullshit wrapped around it these days that the people who would pursue that career path are saying, "hmm, nah. I think I would rather do... Anything else!" |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:09:34 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Krombompulos_Michael: It’s alright. It will start being phased out in 2030 to make room for the NGAD fighter. Can’t wait to see that one. In the meantime, we will just have to enjoy the fact that we have the finest air force on the planet. The F22 first flew 27 years ago. China and Russia put up the best they could offer, the J20 and SU57. Even with all the time and effort they spent, neither plane is stealthy. They couldn’t get their stolen tech to work. China still can’t build a decent engine for the J20. The F22 can run circles around them. We learned quite a bit from the F22 program and it provided great security for our country even if we only built 195 of the intended 750. The rest of the world is still scared shitless of it. Best of all, we have equally impressive pilots to go with it. This idea that NGAD is some single model of fighter jet that will replace the f22 needs to die. NGAD is a program for many companies to continuously develop new advanced designs and concepts capable of controlling airspace. They may or may not be advanced a2a fighters and I don't know if there are plans to mass produce any designs from that program yet. When there are talks of us already having designed and flown NGAD it refers more to using advanced design and manufacturing process to produce that aircraft not so much that we already have the f22 replacement. You could probably make something that doesn't even fly under ngad. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:29:26 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Obo2: This idea that NGAD is some single model of fighter jet that will replace the f22 needs to die. NGAD is a program for many companies to continuously develop new advanced designs and concepts capable of controlling airspace. They may or may not be advanced a2a fighters and I don't know if there are plans to mass produce any designs from that program yet. When there are talks of us already having designed and flown NGAD it refers more to using advanced design and manufacturing process to produce that aircraft not so much that we already have the f22 replacement. You could probably make something that doesn't even fly under ngad. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Obo2: Originally Posted By Krombompulos_Michael: It's alright. It will start being phased out in 2030 to make room for the NGAD fighter. Can't wait to see that one. In the meantime, we will just have to enjoy the fact that we have the finest air force on the planet. The F22 first flew 27 years ago. China and Russia put up the best they could offer, the J20 and SU57. Even with all the time and effort they spent, neither plane is stealthy. They couldn't get their stolen tech to work. China still can't build a decent engine for the J20. The F22 can run circles around them. We learned quite a bit from the F22 program and it provided great security for our country even if we only built 195 of the intended 750. The rest of the world is still scared shitless of it. Best of all, we have equally impressive pilots to go with it. This idea that NGAD is some single model of fighter jet that will replace the f22 needs to die. NGAD is a program for many companies to continuously develop new advanced designs and concepts capable of controlling airspace. They may or may not be advanced a2a fighters and I don't know if there are plans to mass produce any designs from that program yet. When there are talks of us already having designed and flown NGAD it refers more to using advanced design and manufacturing process to produce that aircraft not so much that we already have the f22 replacement. You could probably make something that doesn't even fly under ngad. The internal conflict is whether NGAD is a program that puts airplanes on the ramps quickly with no new technology development, or the (lately usual) airplanes contracted well before the technology is sufficiently mature, resulting in projects that are two decades late and 8 or 10 times over budget. Sometimes we simply need airplanes that work. Those peers are 10 years behind the stuff we can field now. The trick they face is acceleration to catch up. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:31:49 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroE: The internal conflict is whether NGAD is a program that puts airplanes on the ramps quickly with no new technology development, or the (lately usual) airplanes contracted well before the technology is sufficiently mature, resulting in projects that are two decades late and 8 or 10 times over budget. Sometimes we simply need airplanes that work. Those peers are 10 years behind the stuff we can field now. The trick they face is acceleration to catch up. I can't help but imagine the people involved in such programs as schizophrenics. I know they aren't, probably wouldn't be in that job if they were. Its just that they seem to have a lot of voices screeching in their ears. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:33:17 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By burnka871: Stripped down F-22? It has a 20 year technology difference lol You forgot about the data link information capability to be shared thru out the strike package. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:42:30 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroE: The internal conflict is whether NGAD is a program that puts airplanes on the ramps quickly with no new technology development, or the (lately usual) airplanes contracted well before the technology is sufficiently mature, resulting in projects that are two decades late and 8 or 10 times over budget. Sometimes we simply need airplanes that work. Those peers are 10 years behind the stuff we can field now. The trick they face is acceleration to catch up. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroE: Originally Posted By Obo2: Originally Posted By Krombompulos_Michael: It's alright. It will start being phased out in 2030 to make room for the NGAD fighter. Can't wait to see that one. In the meantime, we will just have to enjoy the fact that we have the finest air force on the planet. The F22 first flew 27 years ago. China and Russia put up the best they could offer, the J20 and SU57. Even with all the time and effort they spent, neither plane is stealthy. They couldn't get their stolen tech to work. China still can't build a decent engine for the J20. The F22 can run circles around them. We learned quite a bit from the F22 program and it provided great security for our country even if we only built 195 of the intended 750. The rest of the world is still scared shitless of it. Best of all, we have equally impressive pilots to go with it. This idea that NGAD is some single model of fighter jet that will replace the f22 needs to die. NGAD is a program for many companies to continuously develop new advanced designs and concepts capable of controlling airspace. They may or may not be advanced a2a fighters and I don't know if there are plans to mass produce any designs from that program yet. When there are talks of us already having designed and flown NGAD it refers more to using advanced design and manufacturing process to produce that aircraft not so much that we already have the f22 replacement. You could probably make something that doesn't even fly under ngad. The internal conflict is whether NGAD is a program that puts airplanes on the ramps quickly with no new technology development, or the (lately usual) airplanes contracted well before the technology is sufficiently mature, resulting in projects that are two decades late and 8 or 10 times over budget. Sometimes we simply need airplanes that work. Those peers are 10 years behind the stuff we can field now. The trick they face is acceleration to catch up. Augustine's Law XXX: By the time the people asking the questions are ready for the answers, the people doing the work have lost track of the questions. Augustine's Law XLVIII: The more time you spend talking about what you have been doing, the less time you have to spend doing what you have been talking about. Eventually, you spend more and more time talking about less and less until finally you spend all your time talking about nothing. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:46:12 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By crownvic96: When you got the good idea fairy officers rotating in every 3ish years the scope creep never ends! Augustine's Law XXX: By the time the people asking the questions are ready for the answers, the people doing the work have lost track of the questions. Augustine's Law XLVIII: The more time you spend talking about what you have been doing, the less time you have to spend doing what you have been talking about. Eventually, you spend more and more time talking about less and less until finally you spend all your time talking about nothing. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By crownvic96: Originally Posted By AeroE: Originally Posted By Obo2: Originally Posted By Krombompulos_Michael: It's alright. It will start being phased out in 2030 to make room for the NGAD fighter. Can't wait to see that one. In the meantime, we will just have to enjoy the fact that we have the finest air force on the planet. The F22 first flew 27 years ago. China and Russia put up the best they could offer, the J20 and SU57. Even with all the time and effort they spent, neither plane is stealthy. They couldn't get their stolen tech to work. China still can't build a decent engine for the J20. The F22 can run circles around them. We learned quite a bit from the F22 program and it provided great security for our country even if we only built 195 of the intended 750. The rest of the world is still scared shitless of it. Best of all, we have equally impressive pilots to go with it. This idea that NGAD is some single model of fighter jet that will replace the f22 needs to die. NGAD is a program for many companies to continuously develop new advanced designs and concepts capable of controlling airspace. They may or may not be advanced a2a fighters and I don't know if there are plans to mass produce any designs from that program yet. When there are talks of us already having designed and flown NGAD it refers more to using advanced design and manufacturing process to produce that aircraft not so much that we already have the f22 replacement. You could probably make something that doesn't even fly under ngad. The internal conflict is whether NGAD is a program that puts airplanes on the ramps quickly with no new technology development, or the (lately usual) airplanes contracted well before the technology is sufficiently mature, resulting in projects that are two decades late and 8 or 10 times over budget. Sometimes we simply need airplanes that work. Those peers are 10 years behind the stuff we can field now. The trick they face is acceleration to catch up. Augustine's Law XXX: By the time the people asking the questions are ready for the answers, the people doing the work have lost track of the questions. Augustine's Law XLVIII: The more time you spend talking about what you have been doing, the less time you have to spend doing what you have been talking about. Eventually, you spend more and more time talking about less and less until finally you spend all your time talking about nothing. Start a thread with all of Augustine's Laws. That should be good for a few stories and chuckles. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:48:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: crownvic96]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AeroE: Start a thread with all of Augustine's Laws. That should be good for a few stories and chuckles. 
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:50:58 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By wildearp: Why didn't Maverick use the F-35? Because it would have been a super boring and uneventful movie. Punch off the carrier at 0300. Cruise over the target at 40k’. Drop a couple of bombs, fly home to the carrier. Get breakfast, take a shower. Done. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:51:13 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: The F22 wishes it had the F35 avionics suite. LOL The F35 doesn’t even use a HUD. It’s all in the helmet. You use a sort of VR to see through the aircraft. Even through your feet. People who know the true capacity of the F35s we operate not the ones we sell won’t tell you what they can do. The F35 community is now like the submarine community. Tight lipped. A similar vr would be great for tanks and APCs . |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 10:59:54 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JIMBEAM: A similar vr would be great for tanks and APCs . Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JIMBEAM: Originally Posted By RattleCanAR: The F22 wishes it had the F35 avionics suite. LOL The F35 doesn’t even use a HUD. It’s all in the helmet. You use a sort of VR to see through the aircraft. Even through your feet. People who know the true capacity of the F35s we operate not the ones we sell won’t tell you what they can do. The F35 community is now like the submarine community. Tight lipped. A similar vr would be great for tanks and APCs . I thought something like that was possibly going to be part of the IVAS program. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 11:02:18 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By cyclone: It should have the tech of the F-35 and should still be rolling off the assembly lines |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 11:31:08 AM EDT
[#23]
Originally Posted By warlord: But realize that the F-35 is the stripped down version of the F-22. LOL, wut? |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 12:48:38 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By TxRabbitBane: LOL, wut? It's ok, he doesn't know anything. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 12:51:44 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By southerncross: They got blueprints on structural designs and it's been a money sink for them to try and figure it out. They don't have the capability to design/engineer/produce an F35 even if we gave them everything. We also have decades of experience and TTP. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 5:07:23 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By castlebravo84: Yeah, and we should have 500 Seawolf class subs, 50 Ford class carriers, at least a half dozen Jupiter class Battlestars, and no taxes whatsoever. And SAC. I want SAC back if we're getting all those other goodies. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 5:09:56 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By avslash: And SAC. I want SAC back if we're getting all those other goodies. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By avslash: Originally Posted By castlebravo84: Yeah, and we should have 500 Seawolf class subs, 50 Ford class carriers, at least a half dozen Jupiter class Battlestars, and no taxes whatsoever. And SAC. I want SAC back if we're getting all those other goodies.  |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 5:14:53 PM EDT
[#28]
Pretty sure everyone is working on means of detecting LPD/LPI emissions.
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AL, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 5:19:47 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R0N: Pretty sure everyone is working on means of detecting LPD/LPI emissions. Oh man i've got some funny stories about competing waveforms from a couple large OEM's but I can't share it here  . |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 5:21:36 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By avslash: And SAC. I want SAC back if we're getting all those other goodies. I have many fond memories as a child of visits to Robins AFB watching air shows, B52 elephant walks, MITOs, mock nuclear drills in school, B-1 full power takeoffs, SR71s, etc. I had a few family members on base working, civilian contractor and enlisted that were directly or indirectly doing the work for SAC. What a glorious time to be an American. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 7:34:33 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: I think they could have done the last combat scene with a C or B model F-35 and had it look good and even made sense in context. They shouldn't have been able to sneak up on a Su-57 in an overloaded F/A-18. But they could have snuck up on it in an F-35. Hangman wouldn't have been pulling serious Gs at that moment. But... Well, we got the movie we got and I would say it was still pretty good. What sticks with me though is that the original Top Gun was one of the greatest recruiting tools the US military has ever had and while Maverick was certainly a commercial success. It doesn't seem to have caused too much of an uptick in interest in young people becoming fighter pilots. As I keep saying to anyone who will listen. Flying fighter aircraft is objectively one of the most exciting things humans can do and I think it really says something that there's so many layers of bullshit wrapped around it these days that the people who would pursue that career path are saying, "hmm, nah. I think I would rather do... Anything else!" Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: Originally Posted By crownvic96: There's no 2 seat F-35's either. Part of what really made Maverick great was the in-plane action shots that made it look like they were "flying" although they were in the back seat. If it didn't have that the movie would have been a total turd. I think they could have done the last combat scene with a C or B model F-35 and had it look good and even made sense in context. They shouldn't have been able to sneak up on a Su-57 in an overloaded F/A-18. But they could have snuck up on it in an F-35. Hangman wouldn't have been pulling serious Gs at that moment. But... Well, we got the movie we got and I would say it was still pretty good. What sticks with me though is that the original Top Gun was one of the greatest recruiting tools the US military has ever had and while Maverick was certainly a commercial success. It doesn't seem to have caused too much of an uptick in interest in young people becoming fighter pilots. As I keep saying to anyone who will listen. Flying fighter aircraft is objectively one of the most exciting things humans can do and I think it really says something that there's so many layers of bullshit wrapped around it these days that the people who would pursue that career path are saying, "hmm, nah. I think I would rather do... Anything else!" Exciting? Certainly, but also mentally and physically challenging - and in a big way. BTW, a few months ago, I read about a Ruskie electronic warfare plane (May have been a Flanker) attack on an F-35 (don't remember who's it was; French, Italian?), flying over the Med or Baltic where it shut down all cockpit systems. I wish I could remember more details, but I hope our avionics suite is far more robust. Also, Russia (and Iran, w/Russian equip), can shut down GPS over vast swaths of territory, rendering GPS guided munitions useless. It's shit like that bothers me, trying to sleep. I kinda doubt even we can overcome GPS jamming. I'd be glad to be wrong, but... *Waiting for the "Russian propagandist" accusations..! 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 7:36:07 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By crownvic96: I'M IN THE NOISE FLOOR BRAH! YOU CAN'T FIND ME! Oh man i've got some funny stories about competing waveforms from a couple large OEM's but I can't share it here .Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By crownvic96: Originally Posted By R0N: Pretty sure everyone is working on means of detecting LPD/LPI emissions. Oh man i've got some funny stories about competing waveforms from a couple large OEM's but I can't share it here .Now that's something a Starlink-riding elint net should be very, very good at finding. Which sucks for the bad guys. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 7:39:12 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Former11BRAVO: Exciting? Certainly, but also mentally and physically challenging - and in a big way. BTW, a few months ago, I read about a Ruskie electronic warfare plane (May have been a Flanker) attack on an F-35 (don't remember who's it was; French, Italian?), flying over the Med or Baltic where it shut down all cockpit systems. I wish I could remember more details, but I hope our avionics suite is far more robust. Also, Russia (and Iran, w/Russian equip), can shut down GPS over vast swaths of territory, rendering GPS guided munitions useless. It's shit like that bothers me, trying to sleep. I kinda doubt even we can overcome GPS jamming. I'd be glad to be wrong, but... *Waiting for the "Russian propagandist" accusations..! Add an INS suite to the munition. A COTS iPhone's should be more than sufficient. How long is time of flight anyway, and how much drift are you really expecting? So it misses by 30' vs 3'? Not really a problem for JDAM. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 7:42:31 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hesperus: What sticks with me though is that the original Top Gun was one of the greatest recruiting tools the US military has ever had Sacrilege, everyone knows it was Full Metal Jacket |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 7:52:50 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R0N: Sacrilege, everyone knows it was Full Metal Jacket Makes a suitable contrast. Good to know what you're going to be in for.  Muppets from Space -- Rizzo -- Cheese - Rat-Poison |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 7:53:40 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wineraner: Add an INS suite to the munition. A COTS iPhone's should be more than sufficient. How long is time of flight anyway, and how much drift are you really expecting? So it misses by 30' vs 3'? Not really a problem for JDAM. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wineraner: Originally Posted By Former11BRAVO: Exciting? Certainly, but also mentally and physically challenging - and in a big way. BTW, a few months ago, I read about a Ruskie electronic warfare plane (May have been a Flanker) attack on an F-35 (don't remember who's it was; French, Italian?), flying over the Med or Baltic where it shut down all cockpit systems. I wish I could remember more details, but I hope our avionics suite is far more robust. Also, Russia (and Iran, w/Russian equip), can shut down GPS over vast swaths of territory, rendering GPS guided munitions useless. It's shit like that bothers me, trying to sleep. I kinda doubt even we can overcome GPS jamming. I'd be glad to be wrong, but... *Waiting for the "Russian propagandist" accusations..! Add an INS suite to the munition. A COTS iPhone's should be more than sufficient. How long is time of flight anyway, and how much drift are you really expecting? So it misses by 30' vs 3'? Not really a problem for JDAM. True that. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 7:55:15 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hater: Don't we think the Chinese have already stolen all the technology? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Hater: Originally Posted By ArmyInfantryVet: F-35 is like a Fighter Jet AWACS. Super bad ass. With the integration of being able to direct 4th Gen missile truck's weapons onto target that are too big to fit in the Stealthy internal bays. It's ridiculous. We've always been at the edge of aircraft design and tactics. But I think we've really left the enemy in the dust, now. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 7:59:10 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Wineraner: Add an INS suite to the munition. A COTS iPhone's should be more than sufficient. How long is time of flight anyway, and how much drift are you really expecting? So it misses by 30' vs 3'? Not really a problem for JDAM. As range increases, drift increases proportionally Open source, JDAMs get about 30m accuracy in INS only mode. |
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CA, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2024 8:23:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: warlord]
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MikeSSS: They don't have the capability to produce a performance level that is even close. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MikeSSS: Originally Posted By southerncross: They got blueprints on structural designs and it's been a money sink for them to try and figure it out. They don't have the capability to design/engineer/produce an F35 even if we gave them everything. They don't have the capability to produce a performance level that is even close. BTW IIRC, think back to the COVID-19 vaccines and lockdowns, the Chinese infiltrated the various servers and stole information, and out of that stolen info, I speculate that the Chinese developed the Sino-parm COVID-19 vaccines. Some countries around the world couldn't afford the vaccines developed by USA companies, so they used the Chinese Sinoparm vaccines, and the doctors who thought the vaccine was legit, actually died from COVID-19; so much for Chinese vaccine technology. Like many things from China, much of it is substandard in some shape or form that you can't visually see, but you must measure it. ETA some of those Chinese women are really good looking, but got to be careful, a guy I know married one that had NPD. |
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Posted: 4/25/2024 8:49:20 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Former11BRAVO: Exciting? Certainly, but also mentally and physically challenging - and in a big way. BTW, a few months ago, I read about a Ruskie electronic warfare plane (May have been a Flanker) attack on an F-35 (don't remember who's it was; French, Italian?), flying over the Med or Baltic where it shut down all cockpit systems. I wish I could remember more details, but I hope our avionics suite is far more robust. Also, Russia (and Iran, w/Russian equip), can shut down GPS over vast swaths of territory, rendering GPS guided munitions useless. It's shit like that bothers me, trying to sleep. I kinda doubt even we can overcome GPS jamming. I'd be glad to be wrong, but... *Waiting for the "Russian propagandist" accusations..! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Former11BRAVO: Originally Posted By Hesperus: Originally Posted By crownvic96: There's no 2 seat F-35's either. Part of what really made Maverick great was the in-plane action shots that made it look like they were "flying" although they were in the back seat. If it didn't have that the movie would have been a total turd. I think they could have done the last combat scene with a C or B model F-35 and had it look good and even made sense in context. They shouldn't have been able to sneak up on a Su-57 in an overloaded F/A-18. But they could have snuck up on it in an F-35. Hangman wouldn't have been pulling serious Gs at that moment. But... Well, we got the movie we got and I would say it was still pretty good. What sticks with me though is that the original Top Gun was one of the greatest recruiting tools the US military has ever had and while Maverick was certainly a commercial success. It doesn't seem to have caused too much of an uptick in interest in young people becoming fighter pilots. As I keep saying to anyone who will listen. Flying fighter aircraft is objectively one of the most exciting things humans can do and I think it really says something that there's so many layers of bullshit wrapped around it these days that the people who would pursue that career path are saying, "hmm, nah. I think I would rather do... Anything else!" Exciting? Certainly, but also mentally and physically challenging - and in a big way. BTW, a few months ago, I read about a Ruskie electronic warfare plane (May have been a Flanker) attack on an F-35 (don't remember who's it was; French, Italian?), flying over the Med or Baltic where it shut down all cockpit systems. I wish I could remember more details, but I hope our avionics suite is far more robust. Also, Russia (and Iran, w/Russian equip), can shut down GPS over vast swaths of territory, rendering GPS guided munitions useless. It's shit like that bothers me, trying to sleep. I kinda doubt even we can overcome GPS jamming. I'd be glad to be wrong, but... *Waiting for the "Russian propagandist" accusations..! Don't worry about GPS denial. There are work arounds. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 12:36:54 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Former11BRAVO: Exciting? Certainly, but also mentally and physically challenging - and in a big way. BTW, a few months ago, I read about a Ruskie electronic warfare plane (May have been a Flanker) attack on an F-35 (don't remember who's it was; French, Italian?), flying over the Med or Baltic where it shut down all cockpit systems. I wish I could remember more details, but I hope our avionics suite is far more robust. Also, Russia (and Iran, w/Russian equip), can shut down GPS over vast swaths of territory, rendering GPS guided munitions useless. It's shit like that bothers me, trying to sleep. I kinda doubt even we can overcome GPS jamming. I'd be glad to be wrong, but... *Waiting for the "Russian propagandist" accusations..! The F-35 intercept story comes from pro Russian sources. I can’t find reference to it happening like that from other sources. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 2:37:20 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AR18: You forgot about the data link information capability to be shared thru out the strike package. Both Raptors and Lightnings have always been Link capable. Eagles and Vipers and Strike Eagles and Hornets have been Link capable to varying degrees for 25 years. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 3:08:40 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Former11BRAVO: Exciting? Certainly, but also mentally and physically challenging - and in a big way. BTW, a few months ago, I read about a Ruskie electronic warfare plane (May have been a Flanker) attack on an F-35 (don't remember who's it was; French, Italian?), flying over the Med or Baltic where it shut down all cockpit systems. I wish I could remember more details, but I hope our avionics suite is far more robust. Also, Russia (and Iran, w/Russian equip), can shut down GPS over vast swaths of territory, rendering GPS guided munitions useless. It's shit like that bothers me, trying to sleep. I kinda doubt even we can overcome GPS jamming. I'd be glad to be wrong, but... *Waiting for the "Russian propagandist" accusations..! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Former11BRAVO: Originally Posted By Hesperus: Originally Posted By crownvic96: There's no 2 seat F-35's either. Part of what really made Maverick great was the in-plane action shots that made it look like they were "flying" although they were in the back seat. If it didn't have that the movie would have been a total turd. I think they could have done the last combat scene with a C or B model F-35 and had it look good and even made sense in context. They shouldn't have been able to sneak up on a Su-57 in an overloaded F/A-18. But they could have snuck up on it in an F-35. Hangman wouldn't have been pulling serious Gs at that moment. But... Well, we got the movie we got and I would say it was still pretty good. What sticks with me though is that the original Top Gun was one of the greatest recruiting tools the US military has ever had and while Maverick was certainly a commercial success. It doesn't seem to have caused too much of an uptick in interest in young people becoming fighter pilots. As I keep saying to anyone who will listen. Flying fighter aircraft is objectively one of the most exciting things humans can do and I think it really says something that there's so many layers of bullshit wrapped around it these days that the people who would pursue that career path are saying, "hmm, nah. I think I would rather do... Anything else!" Exciting? Certainly, but also mentally and physically challenging - and in a big way. BTW, a few months ago, I read about a Ruskie electronic warfare plane (May have been a Flanker) attack on an F-35 (don't remember who's it was; French, Italian?), flying over the Med or Baltic where it shut down all cockpit systems. I wish I could remember more details, but I hope our avionics suite is far more robust. Also, Russia (and Iran, w/Russian equip), can shut down GPS over vast swaths of territory, rendering GPS guided munitions useless. It's shit like that bothers me, trying to sleep. I kinda doubt even we can overcome GPS jamming. I'd be glad to be wrong, but... *Waiting for the "Russian propagandist" accusations..!  You’re worried that Russia/Iran can jam or spoof GPS? Omg, better send that up the chain-o-command! We’ve thought of that bro. It’s handled. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 3:34:24 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MudEagle: Both Raptors and Lightnings have always been Link capable. Eagles and Vipers and Strike Eagles and Hornets have been Link capable to varying degrees for 25 years. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MudEagle: Originally Posted By AR18: You forgot about the data link information capability to be shared thru out the strike package. Both Raptors and Lightnings have always been Link capable. Eagles and Vipers and Strike Eagles and Hornets have been Link capable to varying degrees for 25 years. MADL? |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 6:12:11 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: The F-35 intercept story comes from pro Russian sources. I can’t find reference to it happening like that from other sources. And how would the world know this happened. EM jamming that can shut down a cockpit? If it actually happened only the F35 world would know about it and they sure as shit wouldn't say a thing about it. Electronic jets have been a thing for 50+ years and in that respect the F35 is no different. In fact the F35 is more robust than past jets because of things. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 6:19:54 AM EDT
[#46]
Yeah I find the story very suspect. The fact that even the Russians claim to have only done that to the F-35 when they can’t even do that to Ukrainian SU-24s and SU-27s for instance.
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Posted: 4/26/2024 9:38:25 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Ryan_Scott: Yeah I find the story very suspect. The fact that even the Russians claim to have only done that to the F-35 when they can’t even do that to Ukrainian SU-24s and SU-27s for instance. I'm just amused by the idea of a French F-35. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 11:18:36 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MudEagle: Both Raptors and Lightnings have always been Link capable. Eagles and Vipers and Strike Eagles and Hornets have been Link capable to varying degrees for 25 years. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MudEagle: Originally Posted By AR18: You forgot about the data link information capability to be shared thru out the strike package. Both Raptors and Lightnings have always been Link capable. Eagles and Vipers and Strike Eagles and Hornets have been Link capable to varying degrees for 25 years. The 22 had limited Link 16 at IOC, and a number of years beyond that. Recall that the ATF/22 program had its own, parallel marching orders per the contract, parallel to the JTRS, et al. The quasi-independent comms development was a sizable portion of the development costs, and it led to some very different ways of doing things. A lot of contention. |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 11:21:57 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RattleCanAR: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/255381/Image_1_jpeg-3196990.JPGhttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/255381/Image_2_jpeg-3196991.JPG Look familiar except for the shitty Harbor Freight motors of course? A more updated version.  |
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Posted: 4/26/2024 11:27:43 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Former11BRAVO: Exciting? Certainly, but also mentally and physically challenging - and in a big way. BTW, a few months ago, I read about a Ruskie electronic warfare plane (May have been a Flanker) attack on an F-35 (don't remember who's it was; French, Italian?), flying over the Med or Baltic where it shut down all cockpit systems. I wish I could remember more details, but I hope our avionics suite is far more robust. Also, Russia (and Iran, w/Russian equip), can shut down GPS over vast swaths of territory, rendering GPS guided munitions useless. It's shit like that bothers me, trying to sleep. I kinda doubt even we can overcome GPS jamming. I'd be glad to be wrong, but... *Waiting for the "Russian propagandist" accusations..! EW doesn't work that way. It's not an EMP. GPS jamming is problematic, but it doesn't straight shut down any and all GPS use in the area. There's also other guidance methods. Putting out enough power to jam GPS in large areas makes you very obvious. |
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