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Posted: 3/2/2019 11:52:08 PM EDT
[#1]
Kangaroo incoming, you lit the bat signal...
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Posted: 3/2/2019 11:53:08 PM EDT
[#2]
Fucking Mobile Wiki. Desktop Wiki!
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Posted: 3/2/2019 11:53:11 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Kangaroo incoming, you lit the bat signal... |
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Posted: 3/2/2019 11:58:52 PM EDT
[#4]
More appropriately, the US went to was against the Mormons, and the Mormons stalled the US army long enough to make preparations.
IDK if true, but supposedly when the army arrived, every home was filled with straw. The implication being that they'd set torch to the city rather than let the army occupy it. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:01:55 AM EDT
[#5]
Mormon hunting started about 20 years before that.
1838 Mormon War Execution order Missouri Executive Order 44 It wasn't rescinded until 1975. 
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:02:54 AM EDT
[#6]
I was at Far West earlier today.
Mormons have a weird and interesting history. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:04:35 AM EDT
[#7]
Fort Douglas was built on the eastern foothills of Salt Lake City to watch over the Mormons. A small part of it is still an Army Reserve post. Most of the base, which was next door to the University of Utah, was turned over to the state before the 2002 Olympics, the current dorms for the school were first used as the Olympics Village.
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:06:23 AM EDT
[#8]
Not intended to bash mormons, but this is a pretty horrific incident.
 Old West Vignette: Mountain Meadows Massacre |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:06:44 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was at Far West earlier today. Mormons have a weird and interesting history. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:10:25 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Kangaroo incoming, you lit the bat signal... 
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:10:36 AM EDT
[#11]
I was just reading about the Mountain Meadows Massacre yesterday.
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:14:29 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
More appropriately, the US went to was against the Mormons, and the Mormons stalled the US army long enough to make preparations. IDK if true, but supposedly when the army arrived, every home was filled with straw. The implication being that they'd set torch to the city rather than let the army occupy it. 
Didn't they just kill a bunch of civilians and then surrender? Wasn't a pretty time in anyone's history |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:18:36 AM EDT
[#13]
IBTL.
3 bans, minimum. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:19:39 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not intended to bash mormons, but this is a pretty horrific incident.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZz5ZCPqDT0This is getting off topic but I've said it before but I'll say it again. The tv series Hell On Wheels is surprisingly historically accurate (aside from scripting, characters, and drama). It accurately portrays the Mormons having forts, being armed, being unwelcoming, having armed escorts for Brigham Young, etc. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:21:13 AM EDT
[#15]
Mormoms are an odd bunch.
Folks should read Harry Turtle Dove's series on the CSA winning the civil war and how that changed things. The Mormons are especially a interesting character group in his novels. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:22:57 AM EDT
[#16]
When you get driven out west by extermination orders, you're probably going to be a little touchy when the US Army rolls into town.
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:23:30 AM EDT
[#17]
They get kind of hostile when you try to kill them all.
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:27:25 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Kangaroo incoming, you lit the bat signal... The South was beating the drums for open insurrection, rebellion, and open war. Where did Buchanan send The Army? As far away from The South as he could... |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:29:42 AM EDT
[#19]
I remember reading a book that was written in the 1830's as an investigation into Mormonism. It talked about how they gathered to go violently attack some town, I think the one where they were to build their first temple. But then Joseph Smith pussied out right before and they established their new land in Utah instead. Mormon god conveniently changed where the "promised Land" was I recall. Wasn't it originally supposed to be St. Louis or something? I can't remember. Been a few years since I studied Mormonism, err, the LDS.
Edited 1387Delta - Let's not get into provoking the LDS members. Thanks Which wouldn't have really worked out in the 1800's America anyway I suppose. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:32:26 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not intended to bash mormons, but this is a pretty horrific incident. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZz5ZCPqDT0 |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:32:36 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Buchanan’s blunder is an interesting period, and a worthy discussion. The South was beating the drums for open insurrection, rebellion, and open war. Where did Buchanan send The Army? As far away from The South as he could... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Kangaroo incoming, you lit the bat signal... The South was beating the drums for open insurrection, rebellion, and open war. Where did Buchanan send The Army? As far away from The South as he could... |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:35:29 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Buchanan’s blunder is an interesting period, and a worthy discussion. The South was beating the drums for open insurrection, rebellion, and open war. Where did Buchanan send The Army? As far away from The South as he could... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Kangaroo incoming, you lit the bat signal... The South was beating the drums for open insurrection, rebellion, and open war. Where did Buchanan send The Army? As far away from The South as he could... Apologies. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:37:14 AM EDT
[#23]
My relatives stole cattle from the US on their march West.
When The Army got to Utah they were hungry and in need of supplies. My relatives sold the stolen cattle back to Thr Army. They were in such a need for supplies, they paid, even with the US brand being obvious... The Army occupying Utah was a huge financial blessing to the Utah settlers. They made friends quickly, to the financial benefit of the Utah settlers and The Church. Providing equipment, food, and jobs to Thw Army was a significant aspect of Utah’s economy... What was feared as a war coming turned into a *huge* financial and material blessing in disguise... Several of my relatives joined The Army while it was in Utah, and fought to suppress The Confederacy in the Civil War... It is significant the number of Union and Confederate leaders who served in Utah during Buchanan’s Blunder... |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:39:59 AM EDT
[#24]
They can baptize or convert you after you're dead.
And that's all I have to say about that. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:44:18 AM EDT
[#25]
To be fair, Missouri passed the Mormon extermination bill first. When an American state says it's okay to murder you and yours in the very letter of the law you tend to be a might twitchy.
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:46:28 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, considering the very first thing that happened when Federal troops showed up is the locals started murdering innocent women and children (including hacking children to death with tomahawks), I'd say he sent the troops to somewhere they were definitely needed. You need to make sure your facts are in order, though. The murders at Mountain Meadows took place *after* The Army was in-route to Utah. There is no angle at looking at the massacre at Mountain Meadows that does not take Thw Army heading West, and the fear of that, into account. There is no excuse for the murders at Mountain Meadows... just lie there is no excuse for the crimes against The Saints back East. Just like there is no honest excuse for Buchanan sending The Army West while Thw South was calling for open-war. Buchanan sent The Army to the West based on false information being spread by antagonists to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:47:30 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I remember reading a book that was written in the 1830's as an investigation into Mormonism. It talked about how they gathered to go violently attack some town, I think the one where they were to build their first temple. But then Joseph Smith pussied out right before and they established their new land in Utah instead. Mormon god conveniently changed where the "promised Land" was I recall. Wasn't it originally supposed to be St. Louis or something? I can't remember. Been a few years since I studied Mormonism, err, the LDS. JS was such a friggin con-man. He was like the American version of Mohammed, except (fortunately) without being a war-lord. Which wouldn't have really worked out in the 1800's America anyway I suppose. Read a impartial history book. It will do you some good... |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:49:42 AM EDT
[#28]
Mormons have some of best values of anyone I know. I don't think it helps any of us to bash them. I am Lutheran but have had many close Mormon friends who I could call on even today if SHTF.
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Posted: 3/3/2019 12:53:22 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
More appropriately, the US went to was against the Mormons, and the Mormons stalled the US army long enough to make preparations. IDK if true, but supposedly when the army arrived, every home was filled with straw. The implication being that they'd set torch to the city rather than let the army occupy it. Yeah, the Congress sent a US Army senior officer to investigate the status of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, after they fled from the United States in a series of attacks on their cities in the East. After the Pioneers ventured out West into Utah territory and outside of the US borders, Congress was curious about their disposition. My great-great-great grandfather was part of the Nauvoo Legion, which did the delay tactics against the Army and Buchanan's Blunder. The inhabitants of the Salt Lake Valley prepped all their homes for burning, buried the Temple foundation, and relocated down to Provo in anticipation of Colonel Johnston's Army to arrive. When Johnston's Army finally made it past all the delay tactics, broken and low on supplies, he wanted to shell Salt Lake City for 15 minutes, but nobody was there. He said he would have given his whole estate back in Kentucky if he could have the pleasure of destroying all the homes of the Saints with his artillery. He later died at the Battle of Shiloh in the Civil War, commanding Confederate troops. He took a round in the knee, and didn't realize his popliteal artery was severed, filling his boot with blood. A tourniquet was later applied after he went faint, and when he died, an unused tourniquet was found in his pocket. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:02:35 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not intended to bash mormons, but this is a pretty horrific incident. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZz5ZCPqDT0"Just traveling through." One of my wife's ancestors was an Indian Scout for Brigham Young who would have normally been riding a message down there, but another rider was sent instead who didn't arrive in time to tell the Cedar City folks to let the people from Arkansas pass through. The story is a lot more complex than it is often portrayed, especially when one of the guys in Arkansas who killed Parley P. Pratt turned out to be the former husband of one of Parley Pratt's wives-the one who recognized his killers in the group. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:03:42 AM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
They can baptize or convert you after you're dead. And that's all I have to say about that.  Well, the baptism part anyway.
Of course, the conversion part is totally up to you. Quoted:
That time the OP switched the thread title aggressors. Yeah, the Congress sent a US Army senior officer to investigate the status of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, after they fled from the United States in a series of attacks on their cities in the East. After the Pioneers ventured out West into Utah territory and outside of the US borders, Congress was curious about their disposition. My great-great-great grandfather was part of the Nauvoo Legion, which did the deli tactics against the Army and Buchanan's Blunder. The inhabitants of the Salt Lake Valley prepped all their homes for burning, buried the Temple foundation, and relocated down to Provo in anticipation of Colonel Johnston's Army to arrive. When Johnston's Army finally made it past all the delay tactics, broken and low on supplies, he wanted to shell Salt Lake City for 15 minutes, but nobody was there. He said he would have given his whole estate back in Kentucky if he could have the pleasure of destroying all the homes of the Saints with his artillery. He later died at the Battle of Shiloh in the Civil War, commanding Confederate troops. He took a round in the knee, and didn't realize his popliteal artery was severed, filling his boot with blood. A tourniquet was later applied after he went faint, and when he died, an unused tourniquet was found in his pocket. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:08:12 AM EDT
[#32]
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:14:29 AM EDT
[#33]
The Mormans I know are solid folks and I respect their history, hard not to if you’re a student of the American West. Bet they could roll the RoP by themselves if it came down to it. History is violent, no getting away from that fact no matter what side of the Morman issue you come down on.
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:14:30 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mormoms are an odd bunch. Folks should read Harry Turtle Dove's series on the CSA winning the civil war and how that changed things. The Mormons are especially a interesting character group in his novels. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:16:07 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I remember reading a book that was written in the 1830's as an investigation into Mormonism. It talked about how they gathered to go violently attack some town, I think the one where they were to build their first temple. But then Joseph Smith pussied out right before and they established their new land in Utah instead. Mormon god conveniently changed where the "promised Land" was I recall. Wasn't it originally supposed to be St. Louis or something? I can't remember. Been a few years since I studied Mormonism, err, the LDS. JS was such a friggin con-man. He was like the American version of Mohammed, except (fortunately) without being a war-lord. Which wouldn't have really worked out in the 1800's America anyway I suppose.  The people living in Missouri at the time in Jackson County favored slavery, whereas the Church was abolitionist and had grown to 1200 members in that county, so they began organizing attacks against Latter-day Saints in 1833. Joseph Smith was the first Prophet of the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ, not a con-man. Another interesting thing Joseph Smith told the men who were part of Zion's Camp was that they would be traveling directly through the land of the Nephites, a people who kept records of their origins from Jerusalem, their oceanic travel to the promised land, and their wars, missionary work, visit from the Savior to them on the American continent, and eventual collapse. 
The Hopewell native American civilization's geographic center just happens to be dead-smack where Zion's Camp route went. Evidence of the Hopewell civilization wasn't really identified and characterized by archeologists until the 1890s, decades after Joseph Smith was murdered by a mob. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:21:35 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Mormans I know are solid folks and I respect their history, hard not to if you're a student of the American West. Bet they could roll the RoP by themselves if it came down to it. History is violent, no getting away from that fact no matter what side of the Morman issue you come down on. In the small southern Utah town where I grew up, the town of 2,000 probably have 10-50,000 guns. Not arguing that this is exclusive or unique to Utah and/or Mormons, but we do like our guns. The spirit of Lilburn W. Boggs still weighs heavily on our minds. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:27:07 AM EDT
[#37]
In the 80's I took a US history class between my junior and senior year in college at a local community college just to increase my GE units for graduation. It was a summer session, 6 weeks long. Class was 3 hours, 5 days a week. No fucking A/C back then. Sweating my ass off.
Instructor was a super lib Mexican dude with a giant chip on his shoulder because he had a PhD in US history from UC Berkeley and the only job he could get was teaching US history during summer session at a community college. ha ha Poor bastard. Fucker tried to convert the kids, but they were mostly incoming Freshmen from local high schools and they didn't give a fuck about his liberal proclivities. It was just pathetic to watch him try so hard and all he got was blank stares and looks like, "Please STFU so I can get the fuck out of here and into an air conditioned room." Anyway, I learned more US history from that asshole in 6 weeks than I learned from a year of US history in high school. The dude knew his shit and made us write gigantic research papers every week. I was old hat at that BS by then, but the kids fresh from high school were fucked! ha ha That was the first I heard of the Mormon Wars with the US Calvary. IIRC, the US Calvary cleaned their clock. The Mormons tried to create an independent state with their own army and considered the US government an enemy. How they thought they would succeed with that BS so soon after the Civil War is beyond me. 
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:37:17 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unlike the official LDS recommendation to store a year's worth of food (and fuel if possible and legal), there's no official edict about stockpiling weapons or ammo. Having said that, the Mormons in the western US have A LOT of guns. My neighboring Cul-de-sac has 4 houses. All Mormon. Each house has several mounted animals on the walls because they like to hunt. In casual conversation with the four guys, they could easily provide arms and ammo for 200 people. In the small southern Utah town where I grew up, the town of 2,000 probably have 10-50,000 guns. Not arguing that this is exclusive or unique to Utah and/or Mormons, but we do like our guns. The spirit of Lilburn W. Boggs still weighs heavily on our minds. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:45:35 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyway, I learned more US history from that asshole in 6 weeks than I learned from a year of US history in high school. The dude knew his shit and made us write gigantic research papers every week. I was old hat at that BS by then, but the kids fresh from high school were fucked! ha ha That was the first I heard of the Mormon Wars with the US Calvary. IIRC, the US Calvary cleaned their clock. The Mormons tried to create an independent state with their own army and considered the US government an enemy. How they thought they would succeed with that BS so soon after the Civil War is beyond me. Sounds like the liberal professor didn't know his history that well at all. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:53:14 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That was the first I heard of the Mormon Wars with the US Calvary. IIRC, the US Calvary cleaned their clock. The Mormons tried to create an independent state with their own army and considered the US government an enemy. How they thought they would succeed with that BS so soon after the Civil War is beyond me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
That was the first I heard of the Mormon Wars with the US Calvary. IIRC, the US Calvary cleaned their clock. The Mormons tried to create an independent state with their own army and considered the US government an enemy. How they thought they would succeed with that BS so soon after the Civil War is beyond me. Buchanan’s Blunder took place *prior* to The Confederacy and The Civil War. And Young almost immediately asked the Fed Gov for inclusion in The Union... Initially Brigham Young, President of the Church, intended to apply for status as a territory, and sent John Milton Bernhisel eastward to Washington, D.C., with the petition for territorial status. Realizing that California and New Mexico were applying for admission as states, Young changed his mind and decided to petition for statehood. Young and The Saints wanted to be included in The Union. While Southern States that created The Confederacy were calling for rebellion and insurrection. Buchanan was trying to appease the future Confederate states with his call for warfare against innocent folks who were formally asking for inclusion in The United States... |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 1:58:55 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Listen juni, I owe you an apology. I’m used to seeing hot button issues in thread discussions and having a sense of who it’s going to annoy or solicit a reaction from. Normally it’s inane stuff that’s not all encompassing. However, in this instance, since its religion, I should have abstained from posting a somewhat snarky comment. Apologies. No need for apologies... we are all here to learn and have honest dialogue. It is an interesting discussion... |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 2:13:09 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mormoms are an odd bunch. Folks should read Harry Turtle Dove's series on the CSA winning the civil war and how that changed things. The Mormons are especially a interesting character group in his novels. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 2:23:23 AM EDT
[#43]
History isnt black and white, depends on perspective. All I know is folks that are LDS are usally upstanding and wonderful people to have on your side. Additionally, they make excellent neighbors and the LDS farms are great during harvest
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Posted: 3/3/2019 2:26:40 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
History isnt black and white, depends on perspective. All I know is folks that are LDS are usally upstanding and wonderful people to have on your side. Additionally, they make excellent neighbors and friends and the LDS farms are great during harvest |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 2:31:36 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He conveniently left out the murder of Parley P. Pratt, and the people among the Arkansas group who bragged about killing Parley P. Pratt, and having the pistol that shot Joseph Smith, who were recognized by Parley P. Pratt's wife. "Just traveling through." One of my wife's ancestors was an Indian Scout for Brigham Young who would have normally been riding a message down there, but another rider was sent instead who didn't arrive in time to tell the Cedar City folks to let the people from Arkansas pass through. The story is a lot more complex than it is often portrayed, especially when one of the guys in Arkansas who killed Parley P. Pratt turned out to be the former husband of one of Parley Pratt's wives-the one who recognized his killers in the group. He tried to set up his own little religious kingdom in Illinois. Such things are generally hazardous to your health in America. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 2:37:34 AM EDT
[#46]
The kangaroo only comes out when there's an opportunity to bash Trump or
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Posted: 3/3/2019 2:39:13 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
History isnt black and white, depends on perspective. All I know is folks that are LDS are usally upstanding and wonderful people to have on your side. Additionally, they make excellent neighbors and friends and the LDS farms are great during harvest He was a contractor and I had an issue with my garage. He sent someone over and wouldn’t allow me to repay him. So I lent him a glock after an incident and wouldn’t allow him to return it. Loved guns and was proud as all get out the day he got his first AR. Wish I had more neighbors like him. Now the LDS chick I knew in HS was batshit crazy. Wife’s family was Mormon as well. MIL went to BYU. Never asked why they left. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 2:40:42 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That time the OP switched the thread title aggressors. Yeah, the Congress sent a US Army senior officer to investigate the status of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, after they fled from the United States in a series of attacks on their cities in the East. After the Pioneers ventured out West into Utah territory and outside of the US borders, Congress was curious about their disposition. My great-great-great grandfather was part of the Nauvoo Legion, which did the delay tactics against the Army and Buchanan's Blunder. The inhabitants of the Salt Lake Valley prepped all their homes for burning, buried the Temple foundation, and relocated down to Provo in anticipation of Colonel Johnston's Army to arrive. When Johnston's Army finally made it past all the delay tactics, broken and low on supplies, he wanted to shell Salt Lake City for 15 minutes, but nobody was there. He said he would have given his whole estate back in Kentucky if he could have the pleasure of destroying all the homes of the Saints with his artillery. He later died at the Battle of Shiloh in the Civil War, commanding Confederate troops. He took a round in the knee, and didn't realize his popliteal artery was severed, filling his boot with blood. A tourniquet was later applied after he went faint, and when he died, an unused tourniquet was found in his pocket. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 2:49:25 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Albert Sidney Johnston was your great-great-great grandfather? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That time the OP switched the thread title aggressors. Yeah, the Congress sent a US Army senior officer to investigate the status of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, after they fled from the United States in a series of attacks on their cities in the East. After the Pioneers ventured out West into Utah territory and outside of the US borders, Congress was curious about their disposition. My great-great-great grandfather was part of the Nauvoo Legion, which did the delay tactics against the Army and Buchanan's Blunder. The inhabitants of the Salt Lake Valley prepped all their homes for burning, buried the Temple foundation, and relocated down to Provo in anticipation of Colonel Johnston's Army to arrive. When Johnston's Army finally made it past all the delay tactics, broken and low on supplies, he wanted to shell Salt Lake City for 15 minutes, but nobody was there. He said he would have given his whole estate back in Kentucky if he could have the pleasure of destroying all the homes of the Saints with his artillery. He later died at the Battle of Shiloh in the Civil War, commanding Confederate troops. He took a round in the knee, and didn't realize his popliteal artery was severed, filling his boot with blood. A tourniquet was later applied after he went faint, and when he died, an unused tourniquet was found in his pocket. It retained the name even after the pioneers had moved to Utah. My ancestor was also a Wagon Company Captain, did 3 treks on the Mormon Trail, and eventually became the Mayor of Provo when he was older. |
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Posted: 3/3/2019 2:55:58 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nauvoo Legion was a Latter-Day-Saint militia named after the Army Joseph Smith built back when the Church was doing well in Nauvoo, Illinois. It retained the name even after the pioneers had moved to Utah. My ancestor was also a Wagon Company Captain, did 3 treks on the Mormon Trail, and eventually became the Mayor of Provo when he was older. I don’t know much about the LDS struggles of the 19th century, but found it interesting that they found themselves in open conflict with the US government. Especially given the opinions of well known LDS members of this site, on the much larger 19th century conflict fought against the US government. |
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