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Posted: 3/8/2021 7:46:38 PM EDT
[#1]
I'd love to have one. It will carry anything you can get through the doors. Plenty of power, and the straight leg ones have cheaper annuals. The fixed gear doesn't hurt you that much.
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Posted: 3/8/2021 7:56:18 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd love to have one. It will carry anything you can get through the doors. Plenty of power, and the straight leg ones have cheaper annuals. The fixed gear doesn't hurt you that much. Yes I would look for the fixed gear version. |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 8:00:07 PM EDT
[#3]
What should I be looking for, concerned about, and at what price points?
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Posted: 3/8/2021 8:26:27 PM EDT
[#4]
I've seen prices all over the map. If it's a fixed gear, that sort of narrows it down to the engine. There, you have two choices. Get a relatively fresh engine and pay for it, or get a run out one and do it up the way you want.
I am not aware of any systems that are gotchas. I'm pretty sure the spar AD doesn't apply, but be sure. I think the big thing now will be the panel. A six pack may be legal to fly IFR, but I think you'd be crazy to do it in complicated airspace. There are some fantastic boxes out there for GA aircraft. They come at a very substantial price. It's not hard to take a older airframe and put in the panel more money than you spent for the airframe. That's both good and bad, since if the avionics are in the panel already, the sale price will not reflect the entire amount spent. You can spend as much on the installation as the cost of the unit itself. This is a crazy time to purchase anything. People are throwing all sorts of money at things. Great if you're a seller. |
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Posted: 3/8/2021 11:53:00 PM EDT
[#5]
The Cherokee 6-300 is a great load hauler, the Cherokee 6-260 on the other hand, ain't. I've flown both models and there is no comparison.
Most of them are gonna have steam gauges, although a bunch will still have an IFR GPS or 2 and maybe even an HSI. Anyone that's put a full-on glass panel in a 6 never really intended to sell it as the cost of the panel can easily outstrip the value of the plane and the reality is, a $45000 panel in a $30000 airframe... is still a $30000 plane. They get an honest 145 knots on about 16 GPH (75% power) which gives you 4.5 hours with VFR reserves. Look for leaky door seals, especially around the rear door and upper latch wear on both doors. |
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Posted: 3/9/2021 12:24:37 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Cherokee 6-300 is a great load hauler, the Cherokee 6-260 on the other hand, ain't. I've flown both models and there is no comparison. Most of them are gonna have steam gauges, although a bunch will still have an IFR GPS or 2 and maybe even an HSI. Anyone that's put a full-on glass panel in a 6 never really intended to sell it as the cost of the panel can easily outstrip the value of the plane and the reality is, a $45000 panel in a $30000 airframe... is still a $30000 plane. They get an honest 145 knots on about 16 GPH (75% power) which gives you 4.5 hours with VFR reserves. Look for leaky door seals, especially around the rear door and upper latch wear on both doors. Thanks. |
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Posted: 3/9/2021 12:25:46 AM EDT
[#7]
This guy built his "forever plane." I think he does a great job with the videos and airplane.
 I Bought a Cherokee 6 for Less Than $30K and It Changed My Life | An Airplane Renovation Story |
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Posted: 3/9/2021 3:03:21 PM EDT
[#8]
Am I correct in my research that a 6/300 has about a 1,450 pound useful load but that a Saratoga R only carries 1,050 pounds? I saw several Saratoga R’s with factory air and oxygen, which must all add up along with the retract hardware.
It seems that the Saratoga fixed should carry around 1,400 pounds and might be the one to look for. |
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Posted: 3/9/2021 4:52:11 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Am I correct in my research that a 6/300 has about a 1,450 pound useful load but that a Saratoga R only carries 1,050 pounds? I saw several Saratoga R’s with factory air and oxygen, which must all add up along with the retract hardware. It seems that the Saratoga fixed should carry around 1,400 pounds and might be the one to look for. You're correct about the AC and other junk taking up the useful load in a PA32-301R. The wing is also different between the 6/300 (PA32-300) and Saratoga (PA32-301R). The 6 takes off in a relatively short distance; the Saratoga, on the other hand, is a ground hog. If I were buying a 6-place low-wing single, I would skip the Saratoga and the 6 and look for a decent PA32R Lance- it combines the wing of the 6 with the retract gear of the PA32-301 and is GREAT flying airplane- except the T-tail version; it ain't so great. Of course, if you're concerned about insurance cost- and who isn't?- a PA32-300 ain't a bad deal, though. Then again, there's always the Cessna 206, which is a whole 'nother story... |
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Posted: 3/9/2021 5:27:59 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're correct about the AC and other junk taking up the useful load in a PA32-301R. The wing is also different between the 6/300 (PA32-300) and Saratoga (PA32-301R). The 6 takes off in a relatively short distance; the Saratoga, on the other hand, is a ground hog. If I were buying a 6-place low-wing single, I would skip the Saratoga and the 6 and look for a decent PA32R Lance- it combines the wing of the 6 with the retract gear of the PA32-301 and is GREAT flying airplane- except the T-tail version; it ain't so great. Of course, if you're concerned about insurance cost- and who isn't?- a PA32-300 ain't a bad deal, though. Then again, there's always the Cessna 206, which is a whole 'nother story... Thanks for the info. So the old Hershey bar wing of the 6/300 is a good performer? How does the fixed Saratoga with semi-tapered wing perform? I have a lot of time in an Archer II with the semi-tapered wing, but have never flown a Hershey bar (maybe on my first couple of flights, but I was too new to be able to make anything of it). The 206 — talk to me, Goose. Useful load, lower insurance, and lower maintenance costs are important to me. Which is why I gravitate toward a fixed. A good friend has an ‘86 Malibu in pre-buy inspection right now. It is a beautiful airplane and I can’t wait to get a ride in it. All the number crunching and comparisons really reinforces that a Malibu would check almost all of my boxes. But it is a financial commitment that does not fit my needs or my current experience level. A 6/300 will fly 95% of my missions (albeit slower) for a much reduced cost and be an easier transition I think. I recall listening to a podcast discussing buying an airplane and one of he big points was to buy an airplane for 80-90% of your missions, not the last 5%. |
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Posted: 3/9/2021 10:37:44 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for the info. So the old Hershey bar wing of the 6/300 is a good performer? Yes- great short field performance over the semi-tapered wing. How does the fixed Saratoga with semi-tapered wing perform? I have a lot of time in an Archer II with the semi-tapered wing, but have never flown a Hershey bar (maybe on my first couple of flights, but I was too new to be able to make anything of it). It's a ground hog, just like the 301R. The tapered wing gives a bit more speed over the fat old Hershey bar. The 206 — talk to me, Goose. Big, comfortable (for the front and middle seats at least), high wing for great flight visibility, 940 lbs full fuel payload, 145 knots cruise, 92 gallons of fuel at 16 GPH plus they come in a pressurized and turbocharged version. What's not to like?  Useful load, lower insurance, and lower maintenance costs are important to me. Which is why I gravitate toward a fixed. A good friend has an ‘86 Malibu in pre-buy inspection right now. It is a beautiful airplane and I can’t wait to get a ride in it. All the number crunching and comparisons really reinforces that a Malibu would check almost all of my boxes. But it is a financial commitment that does not fit my needs or my current experience level. A 6/300 will fly 95% of my missions (albeit slower) for a much reduced cost and be an easier transition I think. I recall listening to a podcast discussing buying an airplane and one of he big points was to buy an airplane for 80-90% of your missions, not the last 5%. [color=#0000ff]Smart advise. A lotta folks buy 6 place high performance aircraft when 70% of their missions are solo or with 1 passenger. Most of the time I flew my Aztec was with my son or my girlfriend. I can count on both hands the number of times I ever flew with full seats. |
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Posted: 3/9/2021 11:15:19 PM EDT
[#12]
Thanks for the info.
I don't fill up all 4 seats on every flight, but on many of the important ones I do. Right now an Archer will allow me to fill 4 seats with full tanks and leave enough of a cushion for us to bring some things for the day. I filled 3 seats plus a several bags last weekend. I think for at least the next several plus years my missions will need 3-4 person plus bags capability. And those 3-4 people are quickly getting to the point where an Archer won't let me fill all 4 seats anymore without leaving fuel behind. I should also add that I am not looking at a 6 seat airplane to fill them all, but to be a 4 person and bags airplane. |
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Posted: 3/10/2021 12:49:29 AM EDT
[#13]
My first plane was a Mooney M20F with manual everything. I loved it so much that I still have it. If you’re not filling your seats, you’re going to be spending a lot on fuel that you don’t need to be spending. The Cherokee Six and 235 were on my short list for my first plane. Also, keep in mind that We Florida Financial is now financing planes for around 4% for 20 years. Inflation is coming soon and you’re better off using somebody else’s money.
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Posted: 3/10/2021 12:58:19 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My first plane was a Mooney M20F with manual everything. I loved it so much that I still have it. If you’re not filling your seats, you’re going to be spending a lot on fuel that you don’t need to be spending. The Cherokee Six and 235 were on my short list for my first plane. Also, keep in mind that We Florida Financial is now financing planes for around 4% for 20 years. Inflation is coming soon and you’re better off using somebody else’s money. It is a sellers market right now. The couple of 6/300's that I contacted the broker on had contracts pending for the asking price. |
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Posted: 3/10/2021 7:23:29 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is a sellers market right now. The couple of 6/300's that I contacted the broker on had contracts pending for the asking price. That's the truth. Our club is looking for a replacement for our Cherokee 6, most everything is sale pending before you can even contact the seller. |
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Posted: 3/10/2021 9:02:19 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's the truth. Our club is looking for a replacement for our Cherokee 6, most everything is sale pending before you can even contact the seller. How do you all like it and what are you planning to replace it with? |
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Posted: 3/10/2021 11:39:53 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How do you all like it and what are you planning to replace it with? Everyone loved the Cherokee 6-300, it's just a great plane, throw whatever you want in it an go. It was a bit more than I needed because it's usually just fly with my GF, but I wanted the speed. Our others planes are a 172 and 160HP Cherokee, so a bit slower. Personally, I'd rather have a faster 4-seater, say a Columbia 350/Comanche 260 or similar, but most of the guys in the club want something with 6 seats, which I totally understand. I may actually change clubs that has a 350 for that very reason. That said, they've been looking hard at another 300HP 6 or a Saratoga for a replacement...both would be a great replacement. Only reason we're even in the market is because our last 6 crashed after a guy forgot to change tanks and ran it out of gas. Thankfully everyone survived, but it's a sad way to lose an awesome plane. |
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Posted: 3/10/2021 12:59:57 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Everyone loved the Cherokee 6-300, it's just a great plane, throw whatever you want in it an go. It was a bit more than I needed because it's usually just fly with my GF, but I wanted the speed. Our others planes are a 172 and 160HP Cherokee, so a bit slower. Personally, I'd rather have a faster 4-seater, say a Columbia 350/Comanche 260 or similar, but most of the guys in the club want something with 6 seats, which I totally understand. I may actually change clubs that has a 350 for that very reason. That said, they've been looking hard at another 300HP 6 or a Saratoga for a replacement...both would be a great replacement. Only reason we're even in the market is because our last 6 crashed after a guy forgot to change tanks and ran it out of gas. Thankfully everyone survived, but it's a sad way to lose an awesome plane. That sucks to hear but glad everyone is okay. What was the useful load and cruise speed of the 6/300? Are they looking at a Saratoga retract or fixed? |
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Posted: 3/13/2021 7:13:04 AM EDT
[#19]
They glide like a Brick. Nbd for a turbine twin, but I find it disconcerting in a recip single.
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Posted: 3/13/2021 9:28:07 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They glide like a Brick. Nbd for a turbine twin, but I find it disconcerting in a recip single. Is the glide just as poor with the fixed gear versions? And I have read that you do not want to chop power in these on final. |
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Posted: 3/14/2021 12:39:38 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is the glide just as poor with the fixed gear versions? And I have read that you do not want to chop power in these on final. Compared to an Archer, they do glide like a brick, but then again, they're heavier. No, you do NOT want to chop power on landing, unless you wanna smack a nosewheel. You fly them like they are- a heavy, complex, high performance airplane. They can be flown power off to a smooth landing IF you use the trim wheel. That long nose- especially with baggage in it- takes a bit of muscle to make it do what you want. Use the trim wheel and it's a pussycat- just watch your CG; a little aft is always better in a 6 or Saratoga/Lance. |
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Posted: 3/14/2021 12:57:17 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Compared to an Archer, they do glide like a brick, but then again, they're heavier. No, you do NOT want to chop power on landing, unless you wanna smack a nosewheel. You fly them like they are- a heavy, complex, high performance airplane. They can be flown power off to a smooth landing IF you use the trim wheel. That long nose- especially with baggage in it- takes a bit of muscle to make it do what you want. Use the trim wheel and it's a pussycat- just watch your CG; a little aft is always better in a 6 or Saratoga/Lance. Thanks for the info. That's what I have read. |
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