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Posted: 9/27/2023 11:47:41 AM EDT
[#1]
Just shoot him in the toodles.
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Posted: 9/27/2023 11:50:16 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What's the budget? I'd rate them as MP5 type gun first (many options, some under a grand). I see the stribog grand power for sale around $600. Never saw one in person and don't know much about them. But a PCC solves your problems for sure. My nephew has a Stribog and it's been solid. It DID develop an issue with dropping mags randomly (fixed by removing some finish that was causing a pin to be too long. Can ask my brother for details, but he said it was easy to fix) My nephew shoots the crap out of it and hasn't been able to break it yet. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 11:53:16 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryRead a few reviews. They're apparently very unreliable. After all, consider this thought experiment, if there really were a super-reliable M1 carbine in 9mm using common mags on the market, at a $400-$500 price point, there would be millions sold. They would be discussed everyday around here. Yet for some reason this hasn't been a hot seller... 
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Posted: 9/27/2023 11:53:17 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For a PCC, I can recommend a Beretta CX-4 Storm. I think it has a lot going for it for your friend: ... -20 round mag within the pistol grip They often go on sale for $550 or so. Looks like they are around $800 at the moment came here to echo this. super low recoil. the posters above are correct about shotgun recoil. most 'non shooters' want nothing to do with that... |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 11:53:26 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: She shot an AR once and it was too nose heavy for her. See CX-4: can't get the balance further to the rear than that, or lighter weight by any appreciable amount. Sub2K or the new S&W PCC offer the same benefits, but with the added complication of a folding mechanism that she would not benefit from. Quoted: I've been there. What no one mentions in these threads is weight and balance. If they can't pick it up, or hold it up without straining, they're not going to shoot it well or at all, and that's before you start dealing with recoil and recoil management. Shotguns are frankly terrible in this regard for smaller young people and women. All of them. I've seen it 1,000 times. Even with a youth shotgun they end up arching their shoulders wayyy back just to hold the gun up and then of course the recoil is much worse. Keep in mind also this is a comfort gun. To be fired once or twice and likely never again. So there's no sense spending a grand. Shotguns are out. The Ruger PC likewise is too heavy. Realistically for this scenario, as another poster suggested, I would strongly lean towards a 10/22. She'll enjoy shooting it and have far more confidence when/if the time comes to use it.  See above. I'm not trying to be argumentative here, I just truly believe that the CX-4 is the best option. EDIT: Since this is an important issue to address for OP's friend and maybe others, this evening I can take weight and balance measurements and photos showing the form factor against AR pistols, Tavor, Marlin Model 60, 18.5" pump shotgun etc. If that would be helpful and OP is receptive. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 11:55:01 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ruger PC carbine. My mom refuses to shoot a shotgun. Recoil sucks for her. She will shoot a 9mm all day long THIS |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 11:56:29 AM EDT
[#7]
Shotguns too long and awkward for older ladies in a house. Get her a nice 4 " revolver in 38 special. She can learn it very fast. If she is squeemish load it with snake shot. I just have a hunch that a face full of no. 9 shot will make any perp change his plans for that evening.
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Posted: 9/27/2023 11:57:59 AM EDT
[#8]
different option, and what I did for my non-interested-in-guns wife... Lever gun in 357. Same manual of arms as a Red Ryder, and she likes shooting that. 357 out of a 16" barrel gets stuff solved with very light recoil. 38s are basically like a 22.
Could even do a youth henry 22 mag or something. Leave it loaded, she won't need more than ~11 rounds. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 12:03:45 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: AR > PCC The AR will have less recoil than the PCC, and shoot a much more effective round. Fixed income? $350 PSA AR-15 + ~$100 PA Red Dot She's not going to have the hand and arm strength to manipulate the controls. Especially under duress. Give an AR to a petite older woman and tell her to lock the action back to clear a potential issue, and you'll see why this is a bad idea. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 12:17:44 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm going with this Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I can't imagine why I'd recommend a shotgun over a PCC to a petite, novice, female shooter. I'm going with this Having dealt with similar issue on the past, I found that some petite women can’t load a mag under tension. Manipulating certain functions of the gun, ftf and other issues overwhelm them sometimes. I’ve seen ladies respond well with 20 gauge positively. I guess it depends on the person and how motivated they are to learn. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 12:18:05 PM EDT
[#11]
Double tap
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Posted: 9/27/2023 12:20:44 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shotguns too long and awkward for older ladies in a house. Get her a nice 4 " revolver in 38 special. She can learn it very fast. If she is squeemish load it with snake shot. I just have a hunch that a face full of no. 9 shot will make any perp change his plans for that evening. Absolutely not. At least half of the criminals and home invaders in the community wear Level III plates at least. She needs to be prepared to fend off an burglar entry team with quad-tube NVGs, ballistic shields, layered soft armor and plates. Snake shot? Her funeral, bro. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 12:24:15 PM EDT
[#13]
We got my mom a Ruger pcc. It now has a Trijicon RMR. She bought a pmag drum mag. Mother is out of control. A 78 yr old, 98 lb 5' lady sitting in her rocker shucking corn with her Ruger in the corner.
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Posted: 9/27/2023 12:26:33 PM EDT
[#14]
My wife lived on a farm before we were married way out in the country. Her little old country house was way out on a corner of a gravel road. She would often have people pull up to her house, drive around, sometimes even park there if her truck wasn't there. She had a 357 someone had loaned her. She had shot it once. I let her shoot some of my revolvers and realized that barn doors everywhere were safe from her wrath. I convinced her to get one of the Mossberg youth/women shotguns with the shorter barrel, improved cylinder that came in pink camo. For a man, it was real easy to shoot. It still pushed her around and she complained how sore she was after shooting less than 15 rounds through it.
It filled a need at the time, I would not let her make that same choice again. PCC all the way. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 12:29:27 PM EDT
[#15]
PCC
Shotguns require a lot more work to shoot well, and have a lot more recoil than a PCC. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 12:32:05 PM EDT
[#16]
Quoted: different option, and what I did for my non-interested-in-guns wife... Lever gun in 357. Same manual of arms as a Red Ryder, and she likes shooting that. 357 out of a 16" barrel gets stuff solved with very light recoil. 38s are basically like a 22. Could even do a youth henry 22 mag or something. Leave it loaded, she won't need more than ~11 rounds. Some .22wmr ammo is over 2000fps out of a rifle; not a bad idea and a pretty simple manual of arms. I think Skinner makes a tube mag light mount now. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 12:35:16 PM EDT
[#17]
Of the two, PCC. Easier to shoot, higher capacity, easy to accessorize.
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Posted: 9/27/2023 12:36:15 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Having dealt with similar issue on the past, I found that some petite women can't load a mag under tension. Manipulating certain functions of the gun, ftf and other issues overwhelm them sometimes. I've seen ladies respond well with 20 gauge positively. I guess it depends on the person and how motivated they are to learn. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I can't imagine why I'd recommend a shotgun over a PCC to a petite, novice, female shooter. I'm going with this Having dealt with similar issue on the past, I found that some petite women can't load a mag under tension. Manipulating certain functions of the gun, ftf and other issues overwhelm them sometimes. I've seen ladies respond well with 20 gauge positively. I guess it depends on the person and how motivated they are to learn. It if wasn't for NFA '34, a Sten gun, abet with aweful to load mags, wouldn't be bad for an older lady that had 3 or 4 mags already loaded.   |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 12:41:31 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Absolutely not. At least half of the criminals and home invaders in the community wear Level III plates at least. She needs to be prepared to fend off an burglar entry team with quad-tube NVGs, ballistic shields, layered soft armor and plates. Snake shot? Her funeral, bro. If in doubt gut or head shots solve the problem. I have trained my wife that if the first center of mass shot does not take them down, the second shot is half way between their dick and belt buckle. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 12:50:45 PM EDT
[#20]
Get her a good PCC and forget the shotgun. She probably said shotgun because she thinks it can just be pointed at the wall and hit everything while blowing the perp ten feet in the air.
Good PCC, a good quality (Not expensive) red dot and some good SD ammo and have her practice a little. She’ll be well protected. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 12:51:25 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're right, .410 is scarse and high priced. A 20 gauge, 16" barrel sent to a gunsmith to port would be a good option. You want Grammy to go to jail? Why do you hate Grammy? |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 12:51:47 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: M1 Carbine or AR 15. This. P90 as well, for an outside straight. Put easy to see dot on whichever you choose and go have fun. Make sure she has earpro close at hand. I wouldn't recommend shotguns unless she had experience already or wanted to also things like go bird hunting/sporting clays with one. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 12:53:01 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can't imagine why I'd recommend a shotgun over a PCC to a petite, novice, female shooter. Same. I've introduced several, all thinking or had suggested to them shotguns, to shooting, and with 2 exceptions they all went with 9mm ARs. The exceptions were ine who laid eyes on my M1 carbine and just had to shoot it as well a PCC, and ended up buying one of her own, and another who thought an AR was "too militaristic," who went with a semi auto UZI instead. 
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Posted: 9/27/2023 12:53:03 PM EDT
[#24]
Would she actually shoot someone? To kill them? My experience with 2 older ladies was no, they would not.
If yes I think a 9mm PCC would be good. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 1:29:21 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Personally I think this is the perfect case for a pcc. A braced gun would be perfect but something like a Ruger would be good. Yep... |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 1:32:28 PM EDT
[#26]
My wife loves her Beretta CX4 Storm.
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Posted: 9/27/2023 1:32:46 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would love to find her an M1 Carbine, but aren't those going for stupid prices now? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: M1 Carbine or AR 15. I would love to find her an M1 Carbine, but aren't those going for stupid prices now? Find a Plainfield or one of the other post-war ones. Only the ones made during the war are all that desirable. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 1:32:58 PM EDT
[#28]
Draco NAK9 or 9s. Reliable, inexpensive and simple to use. Bullet hoses.
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Posted: 9/27/2023 1:46:48 PM EDT
[#29]
A Hipoint 995 is $320 online. She can be into a few boxes of ammo + FFL fees for $450 total.
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Posted: 9/27/2023 2:40:55 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fuck the shotgun. Get a PCC and she'll want to shoot it all day. Small ladies just don't have the hand and forearm strength to correctly handle the manual of arms an AR platform gun, but a PCC is super easy for them. A shotgun is something they'll just not want to shoot at all. This, here. If they run well, a little PCC with a weapon light and a red dot looks like it would suit a weaker woman well. Ruger makes one that can use Glock mags. S&W makes a new side folder that accepts their bigger mags. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 2:47:14 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shotguns too long and awkward for older ladies in a house. Get her a nice 4 " revolver in 38 special. Quote HistoryQuoted: Shotguns too long and awkward for older ladies in a house. Get her a nice 4 " revolver in 38 special. My guess is, in an emergency, there's going to be a lot of missing and very little reloading. She's either getting the job done with what's in the gun, or it ain't getting done. A shotgun or a revolver is going to significantly limit her on-board ammo supply. Quoted: She's not going to have the hand and arm strength to manipulate the controls. Especially under duress. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 2:52:53 PM EDT
[#32]
A reliable PCC would be the option she could learn to use competently with shortest learning curve.
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Posted: 9/27/2023 2:53:11 PM EDT
[#33]
If she can afford a beretta pcc and if she cant get her a high point carbine and vet it for a few hundred rounds. Put a red dot on either and the shooting skill to hit something at 20 feet is next to nothing.
The beretta is better because of mag capacity. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 2:54:38 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: For a frail woman the shotgun isn't where I would go first. Ironic, you may think, from a guy who literally makes money teaching shotgun. But I don't teach shotgun to make money, I teach to help people capably defend themselves. A gun that's unsuitable for her doesn't encourage her to develop the kind of proficiency she will need on the worst day of her life. PCCs have more recoil than you might think, but are usually pleasant enough to shoot. I've heard nothing but good things about S&W's new PCC. The Ruger 10/22 loaded with good ammunition it likes to run and equipped with a red dot is light, handy, and with the 25 round Ruger magazines offers a decent defensive option. Another vote on the 10-22. Mine has been a favorite plinker for years. It runs CCI minimags flawlessly. Let my 8 year old grandson shoot it for the first time this weekend. Soon as he was instructed on how to operate it and see the dot on the Sig Romeo 5, he was pinging all the 6" plates at 25 yards. He wanted to shoot the "cool looking rifle" in my safe. It has a light, skeletonized Druganov style fiber stock on it. If a right-handed, left eye dominant 8 year old can load, operate the controls and ring steel with it, a granny should be OK, too. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 2:54:42 PM EDT
[#35]
20 gauge 870 youth model
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Posted: 9/27/2023 2:55:57 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A Hipoint 995 is $320 online. She can be into a few boxes of ammo + FFL fees for $450 total.  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 2:56:46 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Granny needs a Turkish $1000-1200 MP5 knockoff from PSA with accessories. Shotguns are heavy and hard to bring to target unless you are already in a duck boat 24 PBR's deep. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 3:07:05 PM EDT
[#38]
This is a tough one... I would say an 870 20ga or an AR, but those are fairly complicated for someone who is not willing to learn. It's very easy to forget how to disengage the safety or how to chamber a round etc. I've also seen new shooters get a Glock to jam by limp wristing... Usually I suggest a Glock 17 loaded and secured inside of a holster, that way all you have to do is pull the pistol out of the holster and it's ready to fire 18 times, or 20 with a 19x magazine. That's what my wife uses for protection at home, Glock 17 with a 19x magazine loaded with 124gr +P gold dots, chambered in a holster. She also carries a p32 in her purse. For a long gun, she prefers an 870 loaded with buckshot, but also feels confident with an AK47 or AR15.
My grandma has a .38 S&W airweight and a single shot 20ga shotgun loaded with buckshot, but she wants a .410 shockwave for snakes. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 3:13:31 PM EDT
[#39]
Can't believe you have to ask.
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Posted: 9/27/2023 3:17:23 PM EDT
[#40]
20 ga all the way. Many advantages over handgun or even PCC
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Posted: 9/27/2023 3:17:37 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Personally I think this is the perfect case for a pcc. A braced gun would be perfect but something like a Ruger would be good. The Micro Roni with a Glock or P320 is a great handy little firearm. Given the current environment though, braces are something some folks don't want to touch. I love the Ruger PCC but is it a little heavy for a smaller and older woman? |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 3:20:05 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can't imagine why I'd recommend a shotgun over a PCC to a petite, novice, female shooter. PCC |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 3:22:02 PM EDT
[#43]
14.5 pencil barrel AR-15.
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Posted: 9/27/2023 3:27:47 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Another vote on the 10-22. Mine has been a favorite plinker for years. It runs CCI minimags flawlessly. Let my 8 year old grandson shoot it for the first time this weekend. Soon as he was instructed on how to operate it and see the dot on the Sig Romeo 5, he was pinging all the 6" plates at 25 yards. He wanted to shoot the "cool looking rifle" in my safe. It has a light, skeletonized Druganov style fiber stock on it. If a right-handed, left eye dominant 8 year old can load, operate the controls and ring steel with it, a granny should be OK, too. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: For a frail woman the shotgun isn't where I would go first. Ironic, you may think, from a guy who literally makes money teaching shotgun. But I don't teach shotgun to make money, I teach to help people capably defend themselves. A gun that's unsuitable for her doesn't encourage her to develop the kind of proficiency she will need on the worst day of her life. PCCs have more recoil than you might think, but are usually pleasant enough to shoot. I've heard nothing but good things about S&W's new PCC. The Ruger 10/22 loaded with good ammunition it likes to run and equipped with a red dot is light, handy, and with the 25 round Ruger magazines offers a decent defensive option. Another vote on the 10-22. Mine has been a favorite plinker for years. It runs CCI minimags flawlessly. Let my 8 year old grandson shoot it for the first time this weekend. Soon as he was instructed on how to operate it and see the dot on the Sig Romeo 5, he was pinging all the 6" plates at 25 yards. He wanted to shoot the "cool looking rifle" in my safe. It has a light, skeletonized Druganov style fiber stock on it. If a right-handed, left eye dominant 8 year old can load, operate the controls and ring steel with it, a granny should be OK, too. I was going to say the same thing. A lot of older folks know how to work a shotgun or lever action so they may not actually be bad choices but I know or have known more than one older person who kept a .22 rifle on hand just because they could comfortably handle them. My best friend's mom has rheumatoid arthritis and keeps a Marlin Model 60 loaded in the closet; not ideal, but she can actually handle the gun and will actually occasionally shoot it. No, .22 isn't ideal and she's not going to be reloading it under stress but over a dozen rounds of .22LR in a gun that she can handle and will occasionally shoot is better than something she's scared of and won't shoot at all. My mom will shoot my father's Ruger MKI; she's shot everything else including the .45 Colt Blackhawk, but the MKI is about the only gun she'll still shoot at her age and she's still accurate enough with it. I've offered to buy her anything she wanted but she won't change. One of my aunts has a Mossberg .410 on her side of the bed (my uncle has an 870 12ga on his side); she grew up dove hunting with a pump shotgun so it's natural for her and has very little recoil. One of my grandfathers kept a 16" .357 lever gun handy in his camper and at home since his wife could also handle it (again, old folks who grew up on westerns). TL:DR- anything you can actually get her to like (she's female after all and sadly that very often comes into play) and occasionally shoot is going to be far better than the gun she doesn't like and won't shoot. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 3:32:21 PM EDT
[#45]
Hook granny up vith that tommy gun from her youth.
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Posted: 9/27/2023 3:37:50 PM EDT
[#46]
22 revolver.
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Posted: 9/27/2023 3:45:37 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fuck the shotgun. Get a PCC and she'll want to shoot it all day. Small ladies just don't have the hand and forearm strength to correctly handle the manual of arms an AR platform gun, but a PCC is super easy for them. A shotgun is something they'll just not want to shoot at all. This. I’d even say that goofy keltec sub 2k or the the cmr 30 in 22mag. |
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Posted: 9/27/2023 3:47:27 PM EDT
[#48]
My 80 year old mother loves her KS7 loaded with minishell slugs and buckshot. She also edc a LCP2.
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Posted: 9/27/2023 3:48:11 PM EDT
[#49]
Locked or at least delayed action PCC. MP5 or similar.
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Posted: 9/27/2023 3:50:35 PM EDT
[#50]
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