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Posted: 8/10/2021 9:30:54 PM EDT
From the Life Magazine Archives, spectacular, original color photos. Shot by Frank Scherschel.
http://images.google.com/hosted/life/6588edcffdaa96cf.html   
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Posted: 8/10/2021 9:47:12 PM EDT
[#1]
Awesome. Thanks for posting.
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Posted: 8/10/2021 9:51:24 PM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 8/10/2021 9:54:54 PM EDT
[#3]
Great men flying them. Every single one.
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Posted: 8/10/2021 10:02:37 PM EDT
[#4]
They look like the coolest dudes on the planet out for a road trip. Ready to rain destruction on the Japs.
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Posted: 8/10/2021 10:03:12 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Great men flying them. Every single one. Yeah it takes some pretty big balls to dive into AAA like they did. |
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Posted: 8/11/2021 11:48:21 AM EDT
[#6]
Per my buddy:
Besides the PBY Catalina, the SBD was one of the best planes the US Navy had in WW2 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swede_Vejtasa "Their relatively heavy gun armament with two forward-firing .50 in (12.7 mm)M2 Browning machine guns and either one or two rear flexible-mount .30 in (7.62 mm) AN/M2 machine guns was effective against the lightly built Japanese fighters, and many pilots and gunners took aggressive attitudes to the fighters that attacked them. SBD pilot Stanley "Swede" Vejtasa was attacked by three A6M2 Zero fighters; he shot down two of them and cut off the wing of the third in a head-on pass with his wingtip." |
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Posted: 8/11/2021 11:55:09 AM EDT
[#7]
They actually made a huge contribution in the Pacific, because as the 3rd arm of a strike group (fighter, torpedo bomber and dive bomber) they could keep the IJN very busy in a coordinated attack.
Where there were uncoordinated attacks, they were sometimes the only thing that got through. Even a bomb miss could force a course change for a warship. The US Navy did an incredible job in the Pacific. |
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Posted: 8/11/2021 12:00:48 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Per my buddy: Besides the PBY Catalina, the SBD was one of the best planes the US Navy had in WW2 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swede_Vejtasa "Their relatively heavy gun armament with two forward-firing .50 in (12.7 mm)M2 Browning machine guns and either one or two rear flexible-mount .30 in (7.62 mm) AN/M2 machine guns was effective against the lightly built Japanese fighters, and many pilots and gunners took aggressive attitudes to the fighters that attacked them. SBD pilot Stanley "Swede" Vejtasa was attacked by three A6M2 Zero fighters; he shot down two of them and cut off the wing of the third in a head-on pass with his wingtip." Felt more like an MG42 than a 1919. |
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Posted: 8/11/2021 12:06:53 PM EDT
[#9]
The Dauntless single-handedly tipped the scales in the Pacific war.
At Midway, their success was due to the plane's design and the training of its crews, and the grace of God. The torpedo planes' earliler attack groups were massacred by Japanese air and ship defenses. A common myth is the dive bomber attacks were possible because the Japanese AD's were "drawn down to a lower altitude enabling the SBD's to attack". That is not true. The Navy's own battle timeline confirms the Dauntless attacks occurred a full 30 minutes after the dive bomber attacks. Every plane in the Japanese AD system could have easily climbed back up to defense altitude within that 30 minutes timeline. The true reasons Japanese AD defenses were so sparse was poor radio/equipment communications, and being incorrectly vectored into positions that couldn't suppress the Dauntless attacks. The Dauntless was a GREAT carrier based bombing platform. |
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Posted: 8/11/2021 2:19:39 PM EDT
[#10]
Deleted
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Posted: 8/11/2021 9:26:58 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've shot the AN/M2 from a tripod before. Blistering ROF. Felt more like an MG42 than a 1919.  USMC ANM2 Stinger Machine Gun |
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Posted: 8/11/2021 9:30:08 PM EDT
[#12]
Didn’t Jocko Clark insist that his carrier retain SBDs over the newer HellDivers?
I believe he thought the older planes were more reliable. |
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Posted: 8/11/2021 9:33:31 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Didn’t Jocko Clark insist that his carrier retain SBDs over the newer HellDivers? I believe he thought the older planes were more reliable. I think that was also because the Helldiver had a tendency to lose the tail until it was reinforced, and maybe something else. |
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Posted: 8/11/2021 9:37:57 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think that was also because the Helldiver had a tendency to lose the tail until it was reinforced, and maybe something else. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Didn’t Jocko Clark insist that his carrier retain SBDs over the newer HellDivers? I believe he thought the older planes were more reliable. I think that was also because the Helldiver had a tendency to lose the tail until it was reinforced, and maybe something else. At least 40 years since I read this. Glad I was close. While I’m at it, Clark had the new Yorktown? |
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Posted: 8/11/2021 9:41:13 PM EDT
[#15]
those are beautiful pics. wow.
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Posted: 8/11/2021 9:46:46 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: that 3rd one has been my wallpaper for a few weeks. https://i.imgur.com/bVDCAvi.jpg https://i.imgur.com/BXQVmC3.jpg https://i.imgur.com/NNeJeEd.jpg https://i.imgur.com/fPK6pNc.jpg https://i.imgur.com/7bewDnm.jpg Is that the museum of naval aviation in Pennsacola? If it is that Dauntless on display there actually took part in the Battle of Midway, you can see a couple of bullet hole repairs they made in the fuselage. That thing is worth a fortune - I think it is the only know SDB existing that flew in that battle. |
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Posted: 8/12/2021 12:34:31 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At least 40 years since I read this. Glad I was close. While I’m at it, Clark had the new Yorktown? Yes he did. Dad was a plankowner. |
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Posted: 8/12/2021 7:42:00 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is that the museum of naval aviation in Pennsacola? If it is that Dauntless on display there actually took part in the Battle of Midway, you can see a couple of bullet hole repairs they made in the fuselage. That thing is worth a fortune - I think it is the only know SDB existing that flew in that battle. yes |
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Posted: 8/12/2021 8:21:58 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Didn’t Jocko Clark insist that his carrier retain SBDs over the newer HellDivers? I believe he thought the older planes were more reliable. Yup, they had Helldivers during their workup and they had so many issues with them Clark insisted on landing them and drawing SBD's for deployment. They eventually got SB2C's and gave the SBD's to the Marines. |
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Posted: 8/12/2021 8:42:19 AM EDT
[#20]
For anyone passing through Midway airport in Chicago, make sure you go check out the very period authentic truck tires that are on the Dauntless hanging up near the A Gates.
  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/12/2021 8:52:19 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Per my buddy: Besides the PBY Catalina, the SBD was one of the best planes the US Navy had in WW2 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swede_Vejtasa "Their relatively heavy gun armament with two forward-firing .50 in (12.7 mm)M2 Browning machine guns and either one or two rear flexible-mount .30 in (7.62 mm) AN/M2 machine guns was effective against the lightly built Japanese fighters, and many pilots and gunners took aggressive attitudes to the fighters that attacked them. SBD pilot Stanley "Swede" Vejtasa was attacked by three A6M2 Zero fighters; he shot down two of them and cut off the wing of the third in a head-on pass with his wingtip." Watch the History Channel "Dogfights" episode about this. Unreal. |
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Posted: 8/12/2021 8:55:18 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: that 3rd one has been my wallpaper for a few weeks. https://i.imgur.com/bVDCAvi.jpg https://i.imgur.com/BXQVmC3.jpg https://i.imgur.com/NNeJeEd.jpg https://i.imgur.com/fPK6pNc.jpg https://i.imgur.com/7bewDnm.jpg |
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Posted: 8/12/2021 8:56:32 AM EDT
[#23]
I was just listening to the Supernova In The East chapter about Midway and these planes. Such an epic moment in history.
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Posted: 8/12/2021 2:45:34 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Watch the History Channel "Dogfights" episode about this. Unreal. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Per my buddy: Besides the PBY Catalina, the SBD was one of the best planes the US Navy had in WW2 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swede_Vejtasa "Their relatively heavy gun armament with two forward-firing .50 in (12.7 mm)M2 Browning machine guns and either one or two rear flexible-mount .30 in (7.62 mm) AN/M2 machine guns was effective against the lightly built Japanese fighters, and many pilots and gunners took aggressive attitudes to the fighters that attacked them. SBD pilot Stanley "Swede" Vejtasa was attacked by three A6M2 Zero fighters; he shot down two of them and cut off the wing of the third in a head-on pass with his wingtip." Watch the History Channel "Dogfights" episode about this. Unreal. While not a fighter, the SBD gave better than it got in aerial combat. |
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Posted: 8/12/2021 2:47:43 PM EDT
[#25]
Thanks OP.
Balls of Steel and I'm not talking about the planes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swede_Vejtasa BTW, the designer of the SBD, Ed Heinemann, also designed the A-26, the A-20, A1 Skyraider, F4D Skyray, A3 Skywarrior and the A4 Skyhawk among others. https://www.nationalaviation.org/our-enshrinees/heinemann-edward/ |
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Posted: 8/12/2021 2:57:02 PM EDT
[#26]
An amazing plane for the time. My great-uncle fought and died in one.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/My-great-uncle-never-returned-from-the-Pacific-That-might-change--update-Recovery-will-happen/5-2301217/ |
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Posted: 8/12/2021 7:42:48 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The Dauntless single-handedly tipped the scales in the Pacific war. At Midway, their success was due to the plane's design and the training of its crews, and the grace of God. The torpedo planes' earliler attack groups were massacred by Japanese air and ship defenses. A common myth is the dive bomber attacks were possible because the Japanese AD's were "drawn down to a lower altitude enabling the SBD's to attack". That is not true. The Navy's own battle timeline confirms the Dauntless attacks occurred a full 30 minutes after the dive bomber attacks. Every plane in the Japanese AD system could have easily climbed back up to defense altitude within that 30 minutes timeline. The true reasons Japanese AD defenses were so sparse was poor radio/equipment communications, and being incorrectly vectored into positions that couldn't suppress the Dauntless attacks. The Dauntless was a GREAT carrier based bombing platform. You are mostly correct. VT-8 attacked at 0920 VT-6 at 0940 VT-3 at 1010 VB-6, VS-6, VB-3 at approx 1020 It wasn't altitude so much as lateral movement. VT-3, escorted by VF-3 and Thach came in from the East and McCluskey came in from SW. The Japanese zeros were low but six miles out of position, and it was cloudy. They didn't see the SBDs coming. But it was lateral, not vertical. According to Paschal VT-3 actually was going in simultaneously with the rest of Yorktown's planes. The chief issue is that just before Waldron showed up, Nagumo had decided to launch on Yorktown, but he needed 30-40 minutes of uncluttered time to steam into the wind, put planes on the deck, and launch. He didn't have time. By forcing Nagumo to turn W, NW, then NNE, the VTs didnt give him time to launch and he was trapped with planes, bombs and gas in his hangars. Akagi took one hit, Kaga six, Soryu three. Akagi definitely and Soryu maybe would have survived if they could have gotten all those rolling bombs off the ship. One bomb cant sink a CV unless it has 40 planes worth of bombs gas and torpedoes waiting to cook off. |
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Posted: 8/12/2021 7:49:29 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup, they had Helldivers during their workup and they had so many issues with them Clark insisted on landing them and drawing SBD's for deployment. They eventually got SB2C's and gave the SBD's to the Marines. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Didn’t Jocko Clark insist that his carrier retain SBDs over the newer HellDivers? I believe he thought the older planes were more reliable. Yup, they had Helldivers during their workup and they had so many issues with them Clark insisted on landing them and drawing SBD's for deployment. They eventually got SB2C's and gave the SBD's to the Marines. My understanding is that the Helldiver wasn't as controllable in a dive and hence a less accurate bomber |
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Posted: 8/12/2021 7:55:41 PM EDT
[#29]
not being edgy, and those planes did the damage, i also think they are cool planes....but if it hadn't been for the devastators getting absolutely annihilated at low level by all the jap cap....the dauntlesses would have never been able to do what they did.
the absolute sacrifice was amazing eta i see another poster disputes my thoughts...the timetable is debatable, and even so after the zeros did their deal, they were low on fuel and ammo, along with being out of position. Even with their max rate of climb they were looking at about 10minutes just to get back up to attack altitude, George Gay talked a little about it in his book. Regardless we could debate it in another thread |
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Posted: 8/12/2021 7:58:16 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: not being edgy, and those planes did the damage, i also think they are cool planes....but if it hadn't been for the devastators getting absolutely annihilated at low level by all the jap cap....the dauntlesses would have never been able to do what they did. the absolute sacrifice was amazing Pretty startling how poor we were at combined carrier ops compared to Kido Butai, and yet still annihilated them. |
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Posted: 8/12/2021 8:01:48 PM EDT
[#31]
Look everyone, REAL Heros!
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Posted: 8/12/2021 8:02:09 PM EDT
[#32]
Richard Best
  
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Posted: 8/12/2021 8:04:56 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pretty startling how poor we were at combined carrier ops compared to Kido Butai, and yet still annihilated them. sometimes its just luck and will. Our machines in comparison at the time were also at best par with theirs. We had no corsairs, hellcats, lightnings, or avengers then. They did have some bad procedures during that time, but it usually had to do with surface engagements and branch conflicts |
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Posted: 8/12/2021 8:05:03 PM EDT
[#34]
Slow, but Deadly.
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Posted: 8/12/2021 8:13:43 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That thing is worth a fortune - I think it is the only know SDB existing that flew in that battle. The Kalamazoo Air Zoo museum is restoring an SBD that (I'm pretty sure) is another survivor. It was rotated Stateside as newer variants hit production and ended up ditched in Lake Michigan by a trainee pilot. |
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Posted: 8/12/2021 8:14:35 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup, they had Helldivers during their workup and they had so many issues with them Clark insisted on landing them and drawing SBD's for deployment. They eventually got SB2C's and gave the SBD's to the Marines. I love the Dauntless. Awesome plane. Speaking of a Helldiver. I know a guy restoring one that came off the bottom of the water. Beautiful plane. And his restorations are meticulous. |
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Posted: 8/12/2021 8:14:52 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My understanding is that the Helldiver wasn't as controllable in a dive and hence a less accurate bomber IIRC the helldiver was faster and carried a much larger payload. Oh and SB2C. Son of a bitch second class. |
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Posted: 8/12/2021 8:17:04 PM EDT
[#38]
My grandfather flew them at Midway.
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Posted: 8/12/2021 8:26:20 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are mostly correct. VT-8 attacked at 0920 VT-6 at 0940 VT-3 at 1010 VB-6, VS-6, VB-3 at approx 1020 It wasn't altitude so much as lateral movement. VT-3, escorted by VF-3 and Thach came in from the East and McCluskey came in from SW. The Japanese zeros were low but six miles out of position, and it was cloudy. They didn't see the SBDs coming. But it was lateral, not vertical. According to Paschal VT-3 actually was going in simultaneously with the rest of Yorktown's planes. The chief issue is that just before Waldron showed up, Nagumo had decided to launch on Yorktown, but he needed 30-40 minutes of uncluttered time to steam into the wind, put planes on the deck, and launch. He didn't have time. By forcing Nagumo to turn W, NW, then NNE, the VTs didnt give him time to launch and he was trapped with planes, bombs and gas in his hangars. Akagi took one hit, Kaga six, Soryu three. Akagi definitely and Soryu maybe would have survived if they could have gotten all those rolling bombs off the ship. One bomb cant sink a CV unless it has 40 planes worth of bombs gas and torpedoes waiting to cook off. This is what I have always thought, plus on at least the Akagi (I think), the bombs that were offloaded weren't stowed at all and were rolling around the hanger during the evasion maneuvers and that caused fuel leaks. I don't know where I read that, but I remember it. Of course that might be a guess but seems a likely scenario. |
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Posted: 8/12/2021 8:28:46 PM EDT
[#40]
My uncle, who I am named after, died piloting one of these. Cracked up on landing at Ewa Field after an anti-sub mission. The gunner was a fill in for his regular one. The family never
really got over his death. |
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Posted: 8/12/2021 8:36:26 PM EDT
[#41]
The AAF flew them as the A-24 Banshee. Without armor or self-sealing fuel tanks, their combat career was brief.
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