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Posted: 5/12/2024 7:07:17 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Interesting. US based defense goal for near future. Printing the interceptors is fascinating, next would be printed motors. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNVxXWcXAAAptyn?format=jpg&name=large There have been a number of experiments where small groups have been provided a 3-D printer and a case full of components and electronics so that they could assemble a 3-D printed sUAS on-site as needed. But, those were not interceptors. Those are going to need some particular kinds of software to be effective. An co-worker of mine from decades ago had a patent where he used 4 calibrated IR sensors (think old electric eye kind of thing) as more or less a seeker head with a very simple-minded control system. That might work for something like this. Would be crazy cheap, too. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 7:25:00 PM EDT
[#2]
According to the ISW backgrounder on Gaza, the al-Qassam brigades used a drone to drop a grenade on an Israeli tank. I can't get the videos from their Telegram to play, but maybe one of you can.
https://t.me/qassam1brigades/2043 https://t.me/qassam1brigades/2053 |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 7:25:13 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: The drone threat, which has created the need to reassess and redesign our air defenses, is such a huge problem I am not sure we can realistically address it even with these added assets at division and corps level. Corps or division level ADA battalions are sufficient to address the higher end threats posed by fighter aircraft, attack helicopters and the larger, more traditional unmanned systems like we operate. But it is these little off the shelf, cheap, hobby type drones that are changing the battelfield. They are numerous and they are everywhere. This is where an ADA battalion at corps is totally insufficient to deal with the threat. To deal with the kind of drones that are wreaking havoc in Ukraine right now, we're going to need low-end threat ADA systems being pushed down to and incorporated right into the armor and infantry platoons! Every tank, every IFV, every APC, every infantry squad, every supply truck is going to need some means for dealing with these kind of threats. A battalion of counter-UAS ADA added to whatever ADA brigade supporting an entire corps may sound impressive, but would be about as useless as a corps level anti-amor/fortification battalion. These are capabilities you need at the pointy tip of the spear, not back at corps! We don't make the Javelin, SMAW, Carl Gustav, and AT4 to be controlled at division or corps. They are incoporated right down to the platoon level where they are actually needed. Whatever the solution ultimately ends up being for these small, cheap FPV drones will need to employed in the same manner. Otherwise, it is a complete waste of time and will be totally ineffective. Every tracked and wheeled vehicle needs to become capable of serving as its own ADA, at least against the low end but most numerous threats. Every infantry squad needs something man portable they can carry into the field with them to protect against FPV drones. What does that look like in the end? I don't know. But perhaps we can make the cannons on IFVs work equally well at blasting armored vehicles or drones? Maybe a 40mm grenade with a promixty sensor that can give even the most basic infantry fire team some kinetic means of destroying these low end drones? You might even need a brand new weapon, maybe something incoporating something like that 25mm grenade with a ranging system we were looking at back around the turn of the century that could explode right over enemy infantry taking cover behind a wall. That is ultimately where this is headed. I'm glad to see the military has at least concluded the drone threat warrants something besides Patriot systems and looked smaller/cheaper at IR guided Hydra 70 rockets as a potential solution. But even that is only getting halfway there. We need something that can be carried on every vehicle and carried by every fire team to adequately address the hobby drone threat. Otherwise, in our next shooting war, it will be our guys starring in YT drone videos and dying by the thousands, as the Russians have in their war in Ukraine. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: https://www.businessinsider.com/us-armys-new-plan-russia-china-glaring-problem-crs-2024-5?amp https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_4054_jpeg-3212491.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_4048_jpeg-3212501.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_4049_jpeg-3212502.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_4050_jpeg-3212503.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_4051_jpeg-3212504.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_4052_jpeg-3212505.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_4053_jpeg-3212506.JPG The drone threat, which has created the need to reassess and redesign our air defenses, is such a huge problem I am not sure we can realistically address it even with these added assets at division and corps level. Corps or division level ADA battalions are sufficient to address the higher end threats posed by fighter aircraft, attack helicopters and the larger, more traditional unmanned systems like we operate. But it is these little off the shelf, cheap, hobby type drones that are changing the battelfield. They are numerous and they are everywhere. This is where an ADA battalion at corps is totally insufficient to deal with the threat. To deal with the kind of drones that are wreaking havoc in Ukraine right now, we're going to need low-end threat ADA systems being pushed down to and incorporated right into the armor and infantry platoons! Every tank, every IFV, every APC, every infantry squad, every supply truck is going to need some means for dealing with these kind of threats. A battalion of counter-UAS ADA added to whatever ADA brigade supporting an entire corps may sound impressive, but would be about as useless as a corps level anti-amor/fortification battalion. These are capabilities you need at the pointy tip of the spear, not back at corps! We don't make the Javelin, SMAW, Carl Gustav, and AT4 to be controlled at division or corps. They are incoporated right down to the platoon level where they are actually needed. Whatever the solution ultimately ends up being for these small, cheap FPV drones will need to employed in the same manner. Otherwise, it is a complete waste of time and will be totally ineffective. Every tracked and wheeled vehicle needs to become capable of serving as its own ADA, at least against the low end but most numerous threats. Every infantry squad needs something man portable they can carry into the field with them to protect against FPV drones. What does that look like in the end? I don't know. But perhaps we can make the cannons on IFVs work equally well at blasting armored vehicles or drones? Maybe a 40mm grenade with a promixty sensor that can give even the most basic infantry fire team some kinetic means of destroying these low end drones? You might even need a brand new weapon, maybe something incoporating something like that 25mm grenade with a ranging system we were looking at back around the turn of the century that could explode right over enemy infantry taking cover behind a wall. That is ultimately where this is headed. I'm glad to see the military has at least concluded the drone threat warrants something besides Patriot systems and looked smaller/cheaper at IR guided Hydra 70 rockets as a potential solution. But even that is only getting halfway there. We need something that can be carried on every vehicle and carried by every fire team to adequately address the hobby drone threat. Otherwise, in our next shooting war, it will be our guys starring in YT drone videos and dying by the thousands, as the Russians have in their war in Ukraine. The biggest-picture issue is that - if you have watched this war and have even a little but of imagination - the best option may be to deal with Russia and China permanently, right now. The best and cheapest counter to a massive, all-out killer machine war is to make it impossible for our enemies to go there. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 7:38:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#4]
❗️The first known victims of the attack on a restaurant in Donetsk.
Yesterday, 05/11/2024, a missile attack was carried out on the “Paradise” restaurant (Leninsky district, Donetsk). It was previously reported that the targets were participants in a motor rally in honor of DPR Day. According to available information, the bodies of four officers of the Russian Armed Forces have been identified. Two of them are from, as yet, unidentified military units. Two more are from one of the units of the 346th separate special purpose brigade of the Main Directorate General Staff (military unit 92154, Senezh), namely: • Vasyukov Andrey Yurievich, major (GU General Staff); • Zdarankov Alexey Yurievich, captain (GU General Staff); • Tyurin Vladislav Nikolaevich, captain; • Khasanov Marat Timurovich, senior. lieutenant. It is not yet known whether the dead officers were among the participants in the rally or random visitors to the restaurant. https://t.me/dosye_shpiona/527 Good channel. May 9th- ❗️DRG entered the Belgorod region. Two officers of the Russian Armed Forces were injured. But there is a nuance. The nuance is that there was no DRG there, and the officers were wounded as a result of friendly fire and their own idiocy. The incident occurred in the evening, 05/07/2024, in the area of the village. Krasnaya Yaruga, Belgorod region (12 km to the state border). The checkpoint in the direction of the entrance to the settlement was guarded by two privates (conscripts) - Demenev and Popkov. A black VAZ-2109 car approached the checkpoint. There were two men in military uniform in the car. Private Popkov approached the car to clarify the purpose of arrival and check the documents. The driver of the car, without introducing himself, grabbed a Makarov pistol from his holster and pointed it at Popkov. The driver ordered Popkov to give up his service weapon and kneel down, while declaring that they were members of the DRG of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. At that moment, second private Demenev, having heard the words about the DRG and seeing a pistol pointed at a comrade, without warning, began to shoot the car with an AK-74. Next, Demenev radioed about the incident. Having seized documents from the wounded passengers of the car, it turned out that it was not members of the DRG of the Armed Forces of Ukraine who arrived at the checkpoint, but officers of the 473rd district training center (military unit 31612, Sverdlovsk region) with an inspection. The joker who was driving turned out to be the chief of staff of the 24th Infantry Battalion, Captain Kozlov. The passenger is Lieutenant Lipatov. Both were taken to the hospital in Belgorod. P.S. I believe that Private Demenev should be rewarded for his vigilance and determination. https://t.me/dosye_shpiona/526 |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 7:47:49 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: ❗️The first known victims of the attack on a restaurant in Donetsk. Yesterday, 05/11/2024, a missile attack was carried out on the “Paradise” restaurant (Leninsky district, Donetsk). It was previously reported that the targets were participants in a motor rally in honor of DPR Day. According to available information, the bodies of four officers of the Russian Armed Forces have been identified. Two of them are from, as yet, unidentified military units. Two more are from one of the units of the 346th separate special purpose brigade of the Main Directorate General Staff (military unit 92154, Senezh), namely: • Vasyukov Andrey Yurievich, major (GU General Staff); • Zdarankov Alexey Yurievich, captain (GU General Staff); • Tyurin Vladislav Nikolaevich, captain; • Khasanov Marat Timurovich, senior. lieutenant. It is not yet known whether the dead officers were among the participants in the rally or random visitors to the restaurant. https://t.me/dosye_shpiona/527 Good channel. May 9th- ❗️DRG entered the Belgorod region. Two officers of the Russian Armed Forces were injured. But there is a nuance. The nuance is that there was no DRG there, and the officers were wounded as a result of friendly fire and their own idiocy. The incident occurred in the evening, 05/07/2024, in the area of the village. Krasnaya Yaruga, Belgorod region (12 km to the state border). The checkpoint in the direction of the entrance to the settlement was guarded by two privates (conscripts) - Demenev and Popkov. A black VAZ-2109 car approached the checkpoint. There were two men in military uniform in the car. Private Popkov approached the car to clarify the purpose of arrival and check the documents. The driver of the car, without introducing himself, grabbed a Makarov pistol from his holster and pointed it at Popkov. The driver ordered Popkov to give up his service weapon and kneel down, while declaring that they were members of the DRG of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. At that moment, second private Demenev, having heard the words about the DRG and seeing a pistol pointed at a comrade, without warning, began to shoot the car with an AK-74. Next, Demenev radioed about the incident. Having seized documents from the wounded passengers of the car, it turned out that it was not members of the DRG of the Armed Forces of Ukraine who arrived at the checkpoint, but officers of the 473rd district training center (military unit 31612, Sverdlovsk region) with an inspection. The joker who was driving turned out to be the chief of staff of the 24th Infantry Battalion, Captain Kozlov. The passenger is Lieutenant Lipatov. Both were taken to the hospital in Belgorod. P.S. I believe that Private Demenev should be rewarded for his vigilance and determination. https://t.me/dosye_shpiona/526 L - fucking - O - L. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 8:00:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Capta]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: The drone threat, which has created the need to reassess and redesign our air defenses, is such a huge problem I am not sure we can realistically address it even with these added assets at division and corps level. Corps or division level ADA battalions are sufficient to address the higher end threats posed by fighter aircraft, attack helicopters and the larger, more traditional unmanned systems like we operate. But it is these little off the shelf, cheap, hobby type drones that are changing the battelfield. They are numerous and they are everywhere. This is where an ADA battalion at corps is totally insufficient to deal with the threat. To deal with the kind of drones that are wreaking havoc in Ukraine right now, we're going to need low-end threat ADA systems being pushed down to and incorporated right into the armor and infantry platoons! Every tank, every IFV, every APC, every infantry squad, every supply truck is going to need some means for dealing with these kind of threats. A battalion of counter-UAS ADA added to whatever ADA brigade supporting an entire corps may sound impressive, but would be about as useless as a corps level anti-amor/fortification battalion. These are capabilities you need at the pointy tip of the spear, not back at corps! We don't make the Javelin, SMAW, Carl Gustav, and AT4 to be controlled at division or corps. They are incoporated right down to the platoon level where they are actually needed. Whatever the solution ultimately ends up being for these small, cheap FPV drones will need to employed in the same manner. Otherwise, it is a complete waste of time and will be totally ineffective. Every tracked and wheeled vehicle needs to become capable of serving as its own ADA, at least against the low end but most numerous threats. Every infantry squad needs something man portable they can carry into the field with them to protect against FPV drones. What does that look like in the end? I don't know. But perhaps we can make the cannons on IFVs work equally well at blasting armored vehicles or drones? Maybe a 40mm grenade with a promixty sensor that can give even the most basic infantry fire team some kinetic means of destroying these low end drones? You might even need a brand new weapon, maybe something incoporating something like that 25mm grenade with a ranging system we were looking at back around the turn of the century that could explode right over enemy infantry taking cover behind a wall. That is ultimately where this is headed. I'm glad to see the military has at least concluded the drone threat warrants something besides Patriot systems and looked smaller/cheaper at IR guided Hydra 70 rockets as a potential solution. But even that is only getting halfway there. We need something that can be carried on every vehicle and carried by every fire team to adequately address the hobby drone threat. Otherwise, in our next shooting war, it will be our guys starring in YT drone videos and dying by the thousands, as the Russians have in their war in Ukraine. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: https://www.businessinsider.com/us-armys-new-plan-russia-china-glaring-problem-crs-2024-5?amp https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_4054_jpeg-3212491.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_4048_jpeg-3212501.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_4049_jpeg-3212502.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_4050_jpeg-3212503.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_4051_jpeg-3212504.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_4052_jpeg-3212505.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_4053_jpeg-3212506.JPG The drone threat, which has created the need to reassess and redesign our air defenses, is such a huge problem I am not sure we can realistically address it even with these added assets at division and corps level. Corps or division level ADA battalions are sufficient to address the higher end threats posed by fighter aircraft, attack helicopters and the larger, more traditional unmanned systems like we operate. But it is these little off the shelf, cheap, hobby type drones that are changing the battelfield. They are numerous and they are everywhere. This is where an ADA battalion at corps is totally insufficient to deal with the threat. To deal with the kind of drones that are wreaking havoc in Ukraine right now, we're going to need low-end threat ADA systems being pushed down to and incorporated right into the armor and infantry platoons! Every tank, every IFV, every APC, every infantry squad, every supply truck is going to need some means for dealing with these kind of threats. A battalion of counter-UAS ADA added to whatever ADA brigade supporting an entire corps may sound impressive, but would be about as useless as a corps level anti-amor/fortification battalion. These are capabilities you need at the pointy tip of the spear, not back at corps! We don't make the Javelin, SMAW, Carl Gustav, and AT4 to be controlled at division or corps. They are incoporated right down to the platoon level where they are actually needed. Whatever the solution ultimately ends up being for these small, cheap FPV drones will need to employed in the same manner. Otherwise, it is a complete waste of time and will be totally ineffective. Every tracked and wheeled vehicle needs to become capable of serving as its own ADA, at least against the low end but most numerous threats. Every infantry squad needs something man portable they can carry into the field with them to protect against FPV drones. What does that look like in the end? I don't know. But perhaps we can make the cannons on IFVs work equally well at blasting armored vehicles or drones? Maybe a 40mm grenade with a promixty sensor that can give even the most basic infantry fire team some kinetic means of destroying these low end drones? You might even need a brand new weapon, maybe something incoporating something like that 25mm grenade with a ranging system we were looking at back around the turn of the century that could explode right over enemy infantry taking cover behind a wall. That is ultimately where this is headed. I'm glad to see the military has at least concluded the drone threat warrants something besides Patriot systems and looked smaller/cheaper at IR guided Hydra 70 rockets as a potential solution. But even that is only getting halfway there. We need something that can be carried on every vehicle and carried by every fire team to adequately address the hobby drone threat. Otherwise, in our next shooting war, it will be our guys starring in YT drone videos and dying by the thousands, as the Russians have in their war in Ukraine. I made the point a while back that every armored vehicle needs to be built with a base level of SHORAD capability, and is just differentiated by how specialized it is. That also lets you buy one system en masse and add extras as you think necessary. Stop looking at 50mm cannons with the idea of penetrating Russian IFVs from the front. That is far, far down the priority list from “taking out attack/spotter drones”. Every single armored vehicle needs a 30-35mm cannon with smart fuse ammo and at least a basic “SHORAD for Dummies” capability. The dedicated SHORAD vehicles get more/better sensors, radar, SAMs instead of ATGMS, etc. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 8:08:25 PM EDT
[#7]
 
 
  
 
  
  
  
 
 
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Posted: 5/12/2024 8:10:52 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime: ❗️The first known victims of the attack on a restaurant in Donetsk. Yesterday, 05/11/2024, a missile attack was carried out on the “Paradise” restaurant (Leninsky district, Donetsk). It was previously reported that the targets were participants in a motor rally in honor of DPR Day. According to available information, the bodies of four officers of the Russian Armed Forces have been identified. Two of them are from, as yet, unidentified military units. Two more are from one of the units of the 346th separate special purpose brigade of the Main Directorate General Staff (military unit 92154, Senezh), namely: • Vasyukov Andrey Yurievich, major (GU General Staff); • Zdarankov Alexey Yurievich, captain (GU General Staff); • Tyurin Vladislav Nikolaevich, captain; • Khasanov Marat Timurovich, senior. lieutenant. It is not yet known whether the dead officers were among the participants in the rally or random visitors to the restaurant. https://t.me/dosye_shpiona/527 Good channel. May 9th- ❗️DRG entered the Belgorod region. Two officers of the Russian Armed Forces were injured. But there is a nuance. The nuance is that there was no DRG there, and the officers were wounded as a result of friendly fire and their own idiocy. The incident occurred in the evening, 05/07/2024, in the area of the village. Krasnaya Yaruga, Belgorod region (12 km to the state border). The checkpoint in the direction of the entrance to the settlement was guarded by two privates (conscripts) - Demenev and Popkov. A black VAZ-2109 car approached the checkpoint. There were two men in military uniform in the car. Private Popkov approached the car to clarify the purpose of arrival and check the documents. The driver of the car, without introducing himself, grabbed a Makarov pistol from his holster and pointed it at Popkov. The driver ordered Popkov to give up his service weapon and kneel down, while declaring that they were members of the DRG of the Ukrainian Armed Forces. At that moment, second private Demenev, having heard the words about the DRG and seeing a pistol pointed at a comrade, without warning, began to shoot the car with an AK-74. Next, Demenev radioed about the incident. Having seized documents from the wounded passengers of the car, it turned out that it was not members of the DRG of the Armed Forces of Ukraine who arrived at the checkpoint, but officers of the 473rd district training center (military unit 31612, Sverdlovsk region) with an inspection. The joker who was driving turned out to be the chief of staff of the 24th Infantry Battalion, Captain Kozlov. The passenger is Lieutenant Lipatov. Both were taken to the hospital in Belgorod. P.S. I believe that Private Demenev should be rewarded for his vigilance and determination. https://t.me/dosye_shpiona/526 OMG 
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 8:39:23 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By FoxValleyTacDriver: Some of you guys have a clear obsession with the homo erotic shit. Just come out of the closet already. Jesus christ. Seriously. |
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KY, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 8:45:01 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: I made the point a while back that every armored vehicle needs to be built with a base level of SHORAD capability, and is just differentiated by how specialized it is. That also lets you buy one system en masse and add extras as you think necessary. Stop looking at 50mm cannons with the idea of penetrating Russian IFVs from the front. That is far, far down the priority list from “taking out attack/spotter drones”. Every single armored vehicle needs a 30-35mm cannon with smart fuse ammo and at least a basic “SHORAD for Dummies” capability. The dedicated SHORAD vehicles get more/better sensors, radar, SAMs instead of ATGMS, etc. Agreed. For a cannon, I think 30-35mm is the sweet spot. Hell, the Bradley's 25mm gun seems plenty sufficient going up against Russian threats in Ukraine. As for wheeled vehicles and even some tracked ones, I think anything currently mounting an M2 .50 BMG machine gun should be upgraded with one of these instead:  Everything from the JLTV on up needs a gun capable of shooting down drones. As for foot moble light infantry, I am not sure what the solution is. But it might involve mounting some sort of defensive weapon on a wheeled and/or tracked robotic vehicle that can accompany platoons or squads when on the move. A modernized mule packing an M230 30mm cannon would be nice to have for dealing with multiple ground and air based threats. I can now see where the talk of restructuring the current squad by adding a third fireteam to control drones and robotics makes sense. The rifle squad is going to need this level of organic capability just to survive the modern battlefield. WWII was an Army/Corps commander's war. Korea was a regimental commander's war. Vietnam developed into a company commander's war. The GWOT was largely a platoon leader's war. Our next war is probably going to be a squad leaders war. Decision-making keeps getting pushed down to smaller and smaller levels. With that needs to come a decentralization of certain assets, with these assets going from being a corps responsibility to much lower levels. Air defense is one of these. Corps can handle the big stuff. But every tank and infantry platoon needs its own organic air defense assets to deal with the smaller and more numerous threats. Shit is evolving fast and I worry we aren't keeping pace. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 8:58:04 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: You might summon a Demon.   **Daemon 
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:02:01 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: Agreed. For a cannon, I think 30-35mm is the sweet spot. Hell, the Bradley's 25mm gun seems plenty sufficient going up against Russian threats in Ukraine. As for wheeled vehicles and even some tracked ones, I think anything currently mounting an M2 .50 BMG machine gun should be upgraded with one of these instead: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Oshkosh_JLTV.jpg Everything from the JLTV on up needs a gun capable of shooting down drones. As for foot moble light infantry, I am not sure what the solution is. But it might involve mounting some sort of defensive weapon on a wheeled and/or tracked robotic vehicle that can accompany platoons or squads when on the move. A modernized mule packing an M230 30mm cannon would be nice to have for dealing with multiple ground and air based threats. I can now see where the talk of restructuring the current squad by adding a third fireteam to control drones and robotics makes sense. The rifle squad is going to need this level of organic capability just to survive the modern battlefield. WWII was an Army/Corps commander's war. Korea was a regimental commander's war. Vietnam developed into a company commander's war. The GWOT was largely a platoon leader's war. Our next war is probably going to be a squad leaders war. Decision-making keeps getting pushed down to smaller and smaller levels. With that needs to come a decentralization of certain assets, with these assets going from being a corps responsibility to much lower levels. Air defense is one of these. Corps can handle the big stuff. But every tank and infantry platoon needs its own organic air defense assets to deal with the smaller and more numerous threats. Shit is evolving fast and I worry we aren't keeping pace. How many drones would that thing be able to handle all at the same time? Because it might be 3 or 4 all at once. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:07:25 PM EDT
[#13]
It sounds like if you speak the language this video is hilarious.
As it is, it is at least visually entertaining. 🔞 Video 18+, clearing Russian positions in the Donetsk region by a unit of attack aircraft of the 24th Lviv brigade named after King Danylo Halytskyi
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:15:05 PM EDT
[#14]
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1789763980241629427.html |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:17:47 PM EDT
[#15]
🐷 Activation of Muscovites in Kharkiv Oblast
🛑 District n.p. Lyptsi: the enemy actually occupied the settlements of Morokhovets-Oliynikove-Zelene and continues its movement in the direction of the village of Lyptsi. Active fighting continues for Lukyantsi, which the enemy has almost completely occupied. Katsaps try to gain a foothold in Hlyboky, attempts are made to advance by infantry, but they are under constant fire, in particular, from FPV-drones of the Defense Forces, which greatly complicates movement, but, unfortunately, this does not stop them. 🛑 District n.p. Vovchansk: the enemy continues to advance to Vovchansk, entrenching itself on the outskirts for further entry into the city. Our fighters meet Katsap with fire and make efforts to hold back the onslaught. The city is under heavy shelling, the evacuation of the civilian population is ongoing. There were numerous reports of occupation by the enemy, e.g. Gathyshche, but the information is being clarified. The fighting continues. ⚔️ Today Muscovites have focused on trying to gain a foothold on existing borders for further advancement. Damage from the Defense Forces complicates movement, the enemy regroups in places and focuses more attention on shelling populated areas, thereby using the opportunity to establish additional reserves. 🟡 Today we heard many different versions of the reasons for the border breakthrough and the development of events. But the whole situation cannot be described in one post, because there are many questions and problems. We paid attention to some, but you should be very careful in your conclusions, because you need to check the information and have it for any kind of analysis. This applies both to fortifications and to the overall development of events that have taken place today. The battle continues... 
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:19:50 PM EDT
[#16]
https://t.me/kalashnikovnews/2117 |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:21:24 PM EDT
[#17]
Originally Posted By 4xGM300m:
Maybe staged and/or CGI, but it's terrifying. Originally Posted By stone-age: Maybe staged or CGI but still totally doable right now. And in all honesty, cranking out millions of inexpensive weapons seems like the kind of thing the Chinese would be good at. Bzzzzt!! Zap!!  This Portable Weapon System Can Take Down Groups of Drones With Microwave Energy |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:22:26 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker: There have been a number of experiments where small groups have been provided a 3-D printer and a case full of components and electronics so that they could assemble a 3-D printed sUAS on-site as needed. But, those were not interceptors. Those are going to need some particular kinds of software to be effective. An co-worker of mine from decades ago had a patent where he used 4 calibrated IR sensors (think old electric eye kind of thing) as more or less a seeker head with a very simple-minded control system. That might work for something like this. Would be crazy cheap, too. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By planemaker: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Interesting. US based defense goal for near future. Printing the interceptors is fascinating, next would be printed motors. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNVxXWcXAAAptyn?format=jpg&name=large There have been a number of experiments where small groups have been provided a 3-D printer and a case full of components and electronics so that they could assemble a 3-D printed sUAS on-site as needed. But, those were not interceptors. Those are going to need some particular kinds of software to be effective. An co-worker of mine from decades ago had a patent where he used 4 calibrated IR sensors (think old electric eye kind of thing) as more or less a seeker head with a very simple-minded control system. That might work for something like this. Would be crazy cheap, too. Yeah, that is pretty wild, an interceptor with a cheap homing seeker printed for being and expendable ammunition. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:25:20 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryHPMs and optics dazzlers can probably solved 90 percent of the problem. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:25:53 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R0N: HPMs and optics dazzlers can probably solved 90 percent of the problem. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R0N: HPMs and optics dazzlers can probably solved 90 percent of the problem. Agreed. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 9:54:56 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryI don't think there is any other way. And the idea will have to be expanded so that the weapon does not get blown up from the rear while dealing with a drone out in front. I've seen the videos of Ukranian drones going after a russian tank. It's multiple drones incomming from all different directions at the same time. And it is certainly only going to get much worse. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:11:41 PM EDT
[#22]
Aside from the swarm problem is the spotter drone problem.. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:15:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Capta]
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: Agreed. For a cannon, I think 30-35mm is the sweet spot. Hell, the Bradley's 25mm gun seems plenty sufficient going up against Russian threats in Ukraine. As for wheeled vehicles and even some tracked ones, I think anything currently mounting an M2 .50 BMG machine gun should be upgraded with one of these instead: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Oshkosh_JLTV.jpg Everything from the JLTV on up needs a gun capable of shooting down drones. As for foot moble light infantry, I am not sure what the solution is. But it might involve mounting some sort of defensive weapon on a wheeled and/or tracked robotic vehicle that can accompany platoons or squads when on the move. A modernized mule packing an M230 30mm cannon would be nice to have for dealing with multiple ground and air based threats. I can now see where the talk of restructuring the current squad by adding a third fireteam to control drones and robotics makes sense. The rifle squad is going to need this level of organic capability just to survive the modern battlefield. WWII was an Army/Corps commander's war. Korea was a regimental commander's war. Vietnam developed into a company commander's war. The GWOT was largely a platoon leader's war. Our next war is probably going to be a squad leaders war. Decision-making keeps getting pushed down to smaller and smaller levels. With that needs to come a decentralization of certain assets, with these assets going from being a corps responsibility to much lower levels. Air defense is one of these. Corps can handle the big stuff. But every tank and infantry platoon needs its own organic air defense assets to deal with the smaller and more numerous threats. Shit is evolving fast and I worry we aren't keeping pace. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: Originally Posted By Capta: I made the point a while back that every armored vehicle needs to be built with a base level of SHORAD capability, and is just differentiated by how specialized it is. That also lets you buy one system en masse and add extras as you think necessary. Stop looking at 50mm cannons with the idea of penetrating Russian IFVs from the front. That is far, far down the priority list from “taking out attack/spotter drones”. Every single armored vehicle needs a 30-35mm cannon with smart fuse ammo and at least a basic “SHORAD for Dummies” capability. The dedicated SHORAD vehicles get more/better sensors, radar, SAMs instead of ATGMS, etc. Agreed. For a cannon, I think 30-35mm is the sweet spot. Hell, the Bradley's 25mm gun seems plenty sufficient going up against Russian threats in Ukraine. As for wheeled vehicles and even some tracked ones, I think anything currently mounting an M2 .50 BMG machine gun should be upgraded with one of these instead: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Oshkosh_JLTV.jpg Everything from the JLTV on up needs a gun capable of shooting down drones. As for foot moble light infantry, I am not sure what the solution is. But it might involve mounting some sort of defensive weapon on a wheeled and/or tracked robotic vehicle that can accompany platoons or squads when on the move. A modernized mule packing an M230 30mm cannon would be nice to have for dealing with multiple ground and air based threats. I can now see where the talk of restructuring the current squad by adding a third fireteam to control drones and robotics makes sense. The rifle squad is going to need this level of organic capability just to survive the modern battlefield. WWII was an Army/Corps commander's war. Korea was a regimental commander's war. Vietnam developed into a company commander's war. The GWOT was largely a platoon leader's war. Our next war is probably going to be a squad leaders war. Decision-making keeps getting pushed down to smaller and smaller levels. With that needs to come a decentralization of certain assets, with these assets going from being a corps responsibility to much lower levels. Air defense is one of these. Corps can handle the big stuff. But every tank and infantry platoon needs its own organic air defense assets to deal with the smaller and more numerous threats. Shit is evolving fast and I worry we aren't keeping pace. For infantry, things you can do now/soon: Ear pro with built in AI drone auditory detector/alarm Completely rethink personal armor. Probably one light front rifle plate and as much soft armor as possible without compromising mobility. Massively re-emphasize fortification/cover/concealment techniques with lessons learned. Re-emphasize physical fitness/endurance Provide realistic training, including video and veteran operators. Get a basic level of drone equipment in the hands of troops and let them experiment and innovate. Bigger goals, medium-long term: Decentralize and mobilize everything. Everything needs to be able go somewhere else quickly. Decrease the central admin, massively decrease the signatures of C&C units. Any big fat obvious target in the rear is going to get fragged. Every unit/solider gets a networked EW/ELINT node served by central AI. Goal is to siphon up ELINT to stay ahead of the EW game. AI and central specialists then analyze and push software countermeasures out to the nodes quickly without waiting on months-long development cycles, or grunts in the field who don’t have the expertise. Completely re-examine all major vehicles/weapon systems in light of where the threat is likely to go. If a system is under development based on outdated assumptions (for example our new IFV) kill it now. IMO tanks are right now where the battleship was in 1938. That is, tanks are optimized to defeat low-angle fire from the front, just as battleships were optimized to defeat low-angle fire from the sides. At this point it is impossible to armor the top to the same level due to the massive weight increase. This is what ended the battleship and likely it will be what ends the tank, as it exists. Top-attack munitions have been democratized by drones, and an RPG-7 warhead on a drone can now defeat any tank on the battlefield. It will only get worse with money put into AI/self-guided drones. A very, very, very hard look needs to be taken at the near-future threat environment and what vehicles can best survive it. IMO, most of the focus should be on developing a modern 155 SPAG, possibly even including an AAA function, and IFV/SHORAD hybrids with different types and levels of specialization on the same base 30-35mm vehicle with a big magazine. Those are the things I think we’re way behind the curve on. Integrate nuclear defense posture into all big unit ops as SOP. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 10:19:07 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: No matter how many times I hear this explained, it still seems impossible that a thin layer of wet copper would cut through inches of steel. It's just weird. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Originally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: I'm talking as a novice...and I consider all shaped-charge warheads to work by firing a slug (usually copper) into and through armor and the distance to the armor face is important. I understand that the term EFP refers to a type of weapon that aims a large slug, fired by HE, that goes relatively far (dozens of meters) to hit a target. I'm using the term interchangeably. HEAT has a comparatively thin copper cone which gets turned into a jet of liquid copper. It needs a bit of standoff from the armor to work but dissipates rather quickly.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Li2Kt4DtUdYEFP is fairly thick copper plate formed like a shallow bowl, which forms a copper slug which doesn’t penetrate as well as heat but penetrates over a much longer rage. It’s used for off-route mines and things like BONUS AT shells. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eASJbjtw180No matter how many times I hear this explained, it still seems impossible that a thin layer of wet copper would cut through inches of steel. It's just weird. I probably wouldn't either if I hadn't seen 2x4's shot through steel-reinforced concrete walls. Tornadoes and Hurricanes can be like that! |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:02:29 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: Agreed. For a cannon, I think 30-35mm is the sweet spot. Hell, the Bradley's 25mm gun seems plenty sufficient going up against Russian threats in Ukraine. As for wheeled vehicles and even some tracked ones, I think anything currently mounting an M2 .50 BMG machine gun should be upgraded with one of these instead: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Oshkosh_JLTV.jpg Everything from the JLTV on up needs a gun capable of shooting down drones. As for foot moble light infantry, I am not sure what the solution is. But it might involve mounting some sort of defensive weapon on a wheeled and/or tracked robotic vehicle that can accompany platoons or squads when on the move. A modernized mule packing an M230 30mm cannon would be nice to have for dealing with multiple ground and air based threats. I can now see where the talk of restructuring the current squad by adding a third fireteam to control drones and robotics makes sense. The rifle squad is going to need this level of organic capability just to survive the modern battlefield. WWII was an Army/Corps commander's war. Korea was a regimental commander's war. Vietnam developed into a company commander's war. The GWOT was largely a platoon leader's war. Our next war is probably going to be a squad leaders war. Decision-making keeps getting pushed down to smaller and smaller levels. With that needs to come a decentralization of certain assets, with these assets going from being a corps responsibility to much lower levels. Air defense is one of these. Corps can handle the big stuff. But every tank and infantry platoon needs its own organic air defense assets to deal with the smaller and more numerous threats. Shit is evolving fast and I worry we aren't keeping pace. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Charging_Handle: Originally Posted By Capta: I made the point a while back that every armored vehicle needs to be built with a base level of SHORAD capability, and is just differentiated by how specialized it is. That also lets you buy one system en masse and add extras as you think necessary. Stop looking at 50mm cannons with the idea of penetrating Russian IFVs from the front. That is far, far down the priority list from “taking out attack/spotter drones”. Every single armored vehicle needs a 30-35mm cannon with smart fuse ammo and at least a basic “SHORAD for Dummies” capability. The dedicated SHORAD vehicles get more/better sensors, radar, SAMs instead of ATGMS, etc. Agreed. For a cannon, I think 30-35mm is the sweet spot. Hell, the Bradley's 25mm gun seems plenty sufficient going up against Russian threats in Ukraine. As for wheeled vehicles and even some tracked ones, I think anything currently mounting an M2 .50 BMG machine gun should be upgraded with one of these instead: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Oshkosh_JLTV.jpg Everything from the JLTV on up needs a gun capable of shooting down drones. As for foot moble light infantry, I am not sure what the solution is. But it might involve mounting some sort of defensive weapon on a wheeled and/or tracked robotic vehicle that can accompany platoons or squads when on the move. A modernized mule packing an M230 30mm cannon would be nice to have for dealing with multiple ground and air based threats. I can now see where the talk of restructuring the current squad by adding a third fireteam to control drones and robotics makes sense. The rifle squad is going to need this level of organic capability just to survive the modern battlefield. WWII was an Army/Corps commander's war. Korea was a regimental commander's war. Vietnam developed into a company commander's war. The GWOT was largely a platoon leader's war. Our next war is probably going to be a squad leaders war. Decision-making keeps getting pushed down to smaller and smaller levels. With that needs to come a decentralization of certain assets, with these assets going from being a corps responsibility to much lower levels. Air defense is one of these. Corps can handle the big stuff. But every tank and infantry platoon needs its own organic air defense assets to deal with the smaller and more numerous threats. Shit is evolving fast and I worry we aren't keeping pace. The .50 cal is perfectly sufficient, firepower-wise, for most drone threats, and has the advantage of being able to carry and fire a shit-ton more ammo than either 35mm or 50mm. The issue is that you need a better acquisition system and a rapid "slew-to-cue" tracking capability. Also, for certain applications an upgrade from an M2HB to an M3P .50 cal for anti-drone may be justified. IF you are up against multiple drone swarms; acquisition, tracking capability, rate of fire and a metric shit-ton of ammo will be critical. I doubt that either a 35mm or a 50mm light and reliable enough to mount as an auxiliary weapon on most vehicles will be able to come close to the rate of fire of an M2 variant, and would be totally outclassed in RoF by an M3P. Also, a heavier gun (such as a 20mm, let alone a 35mm or 50mm) will need a heavier/larger cradle, mounting system, more robust auto-slew and elevation mechanism, etc. For a lot of vehicles, it would require a complete redesign to mount these weapons. There is a reason that the AVENGER systems gun armament is an M3P and not a 20mm or larger. A 500 round bin of .50 on a light/medium tactical vehicle is easily doable; a 200-round or more magazine for something like 35mm, not so much. Let's not even get into the logistics of movement and resupply of 35 or 50mm in the amounts required or what the reload times would look like. A good thought exercise would be to think about which you would rather reload during a drone swarm attack, a Ma-Deuce or an M242 Bushmaster? Which one is easier to clear or perform immediate action on? Which one is easier to maintain? Get the acquisition/tracking down and build an effective slew and auto-acquisition system, and the 90% solution is achieved without crushing your loggies and maintenance personnel, not to mention that fielding would be a lot faster! 
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Posted: 5/12/2024 11:10:25 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: I probably wouldn't either if I hadn't seen 2x4's shot through steel-reinforced concrete walls. Tornadoes and Hurricanes can be like that! When I was in kansas I saw telephone poles with bits of straw sticking out of them like a porcupine. Now I'll stop helping with the thread slide. Yeah, grass driven into telephone poles. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 1:13:49 AM EDT
[#27]
🤷♂️
⚡️Over the past night, further attempts by the Kyiv regime to carry out terrorist attacks using aircraft-type UAVs, Vilkha multiple launch rocket systems and Storm Shadow aircraft guided missiles against targets on the territory of the Russian Federation were stopped. Duty air defense systems destroyed twelve Olkha MLRS rockets and twelve UAVs over the territory of the Belgorod region, eight UAVs over the territory of the Kursk region, four Storm Shadow aircraft guided missiles and seven UAVs over the territory of the Republic of Crimea, another four UAVs were intercepted over the territory Lipetsk region. https://t.me/mod_russia/38714 Lipetsk Governor UAVs have been suppressed in the Stanovlyansky district. Special services officers are working on the spot. There are no casualties. A fire in the electrical substation is being extinguished. Detection and suppression systems are on alert. I ask you not to publish photos and videos about the consequences of such attacks. This helps the enemy adjust direction and accuracy. https://t.me/igor_artamonov48/2651 Air defense shot down Storm Shadow missiles over Crimea Ministry of Defense: Air defense shot down four Storm Shadow cruise missiles over Crimea at night MOSCOW, May 13 - RIA Novosti. Air defense systems destroyed four Ukrainian Storm Shadow cruise missiles over Crimea, 12 shells of the Alder MLRS were shot down over the Belgorod region, the Russian Defense Ministry said on Monday. "During the past night, another attempt by the Kyiv regime to carry out terrorist attacks using aircraft-type UAVs, Alder multiple launch rocket systems and Storm Shadow aircraft guided missiles at targets on the territory of the Russian Federation was thwarted," the report says As specified in the department, four Storm Shadow missiles and seven drones were destroyed over Crimea, twelve Vilkha MLRS rockets and twelve UAVs were neutralized over the territory of the Belgorod region, eight UAVs were neutralized over the territory of the Belgorod region. Kursk Region, four more UAVs were intercepted over the territory of the Lipetsk region. MAT (sic) almost daily shelling of the central and border regions of Russia, strikes from UAVs and sabotage. Air defense systems regularly shoot down Ukrainian drones and missiles. https://ria.ru/20240513/minoborony-1945495150.html |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 1:17:42 AM EDT
[#28]
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Posted: 5/13/2024 1:20:08 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#29]
Yuriy Butusov's assessment of the situation in Kharkiv oblast. He says Russian advances have slowed now that they are running into defensive positions and their losses are increasing, though he says that some of existing fortifications were built in the wrong locations. He says the commander of OTU Kharkiv has been replaced, and the situation is complex but improving. https://facebook.com/butusov.yuriy/posts/pfbid036SCwFftikwqXCT4PMXdR5n4WGhzPKaNwqTUG416YBffxXKCP8DwwRnwPTASg2xPYl 
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Posted: 5/13/2024 1:34:41 AM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 5/13/2024 2:00:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Capta]
[#31]
Quote History1740   holy schnikes |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 2:09:04 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: The .50 cal is perfectly sufficient, firepower-wise, for most drone threats, and has the advantage of being able to carry and fire a shit-ton more ammo than either 35mm or 50mm. The issue is that you need a better acquisition system and a rapid "slew-to-cue" tracking capability. Also, for certain applications an upgrade from an M2HB to an M3P .50 cal for anti-drone may be justified. IF you are up against multiple drone swarms; acquisition, tracking capability, rate of fire and a metric shit-ton of ammo will be critical. I doubt that either a 35mm or a 50mm light and reliable enough to mount as an auxiliary weapon on most vehicles will be able to come close to the rate of fire of an M2 variant, and would be totally outclassed in RoF by an M3P. Also, a heavier gun (such as a 20mm, let alone a 35mm or 50mm) will need a heavier/larger cradle, mounting system, more robust auto-slew and elevation mechanism, etc. For a lot of vehicles, it would require a complete redesign to mount these weapons. There is a reason that the AVENGER systems gun armament is an M3P and not a 20mm or larger. A 500 round bin of .50 on a light/medium tactical vehicle is easily doable; a 200-round or more magazine for something like 35mm, not so much. Let's not even get into the logistics of movement and resupply of 35 or 50mm in the amounts required or what the reload times would look like. A good thought exercise would be to think about which you would rather reload during a drone swarm attack, a Ma-Deuce or an M242 Bushmaster? Which one is easier to clear or perform immediate action on? Which one is easier to maintain? Get the acquisition/tracking down and build an effective slew and auto-acquisition system, and the 90% solution is achieved without crushing your loggies and maintenance personnel, not to mention that fielding would be a lot faster! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: Originally Posted By Charging_Handle: Originally Posted By Capta: I made the point a while back that every armored vehicle needs to be built with a base level of SHORAD capability, and is just differentiated by how specialized it is. That also lets you buy one system en masse and add extras as you think necessary. Stop looking at 50mm cannons with the idea of penetrating Russian IFVs from the front. That is far, far down the priority list from “taking out attack/spotter drones”. Every single armored vehicle needs a 30-35mm cannon with smart fuse ammo and at least a basic “SHORAD for Dummies” capability. The dedicated SHORAD vehicles get more/better sensors, radar, SAMs instead of ATGMS, etc. Agreed. For a cannon, I think 30-35mm is the sweet spot. Hell, the Bradley's 25mm gun seems plenty sufficient going up against Russian threats in Ukraine. As for wheeled vehicles and even some tracked ones, I think anything currently mounting an M2 .50 BMG machine gun should be upgraded with one of these instead: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Oshkosh_JLTV.jpg Everything from the JLTV on up needs a gun capable of shooting down drones. As for foot moble light infantry, I am not sure what the solution is. But it might involve mounting some sort of defensive weapon on a wheeled and/or tracked robotic vehicle that can accompany platoons or squads when on the move. A modernized mule packing an M230 30mm cannon would be nice to have for dealing with multiple ground and air based threats. I can now see where the talk of restructuring the current squad by adding a third fireteam to control drones and robotics makes sense. The rifle squad is going to need this level of organic capability just to survive the modern battlefield. WWII was an Army/Corps commander's war. Korea was a regimental commander's war. Vietnam developed into a company commander's war. The GWOT was largely a platoon leader's war. Our next war is probably going to be a squad leaders war. Decision-making keeps getting pushed down to smaller and smaller levels. With that needs to come a decentralization of certain assets, with these assets going from being a corps responsibility to much lower levels. Air defense is one of these. Corps can handle the big stuff. But every tank and infantry platoon needs its own organic air defense assets to deal with the smaller and more numerous threats. Shit is evolving fast and I worry we aren't keeping pace. The .50 cal is perfectly sufficient, firepower-wise, for most drone threats, and has the advantage of being able to carry and fire a shit-ton more ammo than either 35mm or 50mm. The issue is that you need a better acquisition system and a rapid "slew-to-cue" tracking capability. Also, for certain applications an upgrade from an M2HB to an M3P .50 cal for anti-drone may be justified. IF you are up against multiple drone swarms; acquisition, tracking capability, rate of fire and a metric shit-ton of ammo will be critical. I doubt that either a 35mm or a 50mm light and reliable enough to mount as an auxiliary weapon on most vehicles will be able to come close to the rate of fire of an M2 variant, and would be totally outclassed in RoF by an M3P. Also, a heavier gun (such as a 20mm, let alone a 35mm or 50mm) will need a heavier/larger cradle, mounting system, more robust auto-slew and elevation mechanism, etc. For a lot of vehicles, it would require a complete redesign to mount these weapons. There is a reason that the AVENGER systems gun armament is an M3P and not a 20mm or larger. A 500 round bin of .50 on a light/medium tactical vehicle is easily doable; a 200-round or more magazine for something like 35mm, not so much. Let's not even get into the logistics of movement and resupply of 35 or 50mm in the amounts required or what the reload times would look like. A good thought exercise would be to think about which you would rather reload during a drone swarm attack, a Ma-Deuce or an M242 Bushmaster? Which one is easier to clear or perform immediate action on? Which one is easier to maintain? Get the acquisition/tracking down and build an effective slew and auto-acquisition system, and the 90% solution is achieved without crushing your loggies and maintenance personnel, not to mention that fielding would be a lot faster! I was thinking a 30MM primary and a .50 coax. .50 will deal with close-in small drones but has little range or use against anything besides drones/personnel/soft-skinned vehicles. A real SHORAD vehicle needs to be at least circa 30mm for range and utility against non-drone air targets like helis, cruise missiles, and ground targets. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 3:19:48 AM EDT
[#33]
The assault group of Russians tried to advance through the gray zone along the forest strip.
In the Kharkiv region, soldiers of the 2nd separate detachment of the "Omega" special purpose center destroyed a Russian assault infantry group that tried to advance through a forest strip in the gray zone near the border
Epic annihilation of a Russian tank in the Avdiivka sector, Donetsk region The work of the operators of the Strike drones company of the 47th Brigade "Magura"
— ? Constantine ? (@Teoyaomiquu) May 12, 2024
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Posted: 5/13/2024 3:20:41 AM EDT
[#34]
Ukrainian pilots are using a tactic first developed by the US Air Force to contest the skies above the 600-mile frontline. Videos in recent months appear to show Ukrainian pilots conducting so-called "wild weasel" missions. The strategy involves jet pilots luring enemy antiaircraft defenses into targeting them with their radars. The radar waves are then traced back to their source, and the Ukrainian pilots retaliate with weapons like the US-made AGM-88 High-speed Anti-Radiation Missiles before the Russians can lock onto them with surface-to-air missiles.
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Posted: 5/13/2024 3:32:38 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: I made the point a while back that every armored vehicle needs to be built with a base level of SHORAD capability, and is just differentiated by how specialized it is. That also lets you buy one system en masse and add extras as you think necessary. Stop looking at 50mm cannons with the idea of penetrating Russian IFVs from the front. That is far, far down the priority list from “taking out attack/spotter drones”. Every single armored vehicle needs a 30-35mm cannon with smart fuse ammo and at least a basic “SHORAD for Dummies” capability. The dedicated SHORAD vehicles get more/better sensors, radar, SAMs instead of ATGMS, etc. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Capta: Originally Posted By Charging_Handle: Originally Posted By CarmelBytheSea: https://www.businessinsider.com/us-armys-new-plan-russia-china-glaring-problem-crs-2024-5?amp https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_4054_jpeg-3212491.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_4048_jpeg-3212501.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_4049_jpeg-3212502.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_4050_jpeg-3212503.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_4051_jpeg-3212504.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_4052_jpeg-3212505.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/459941/IMG_4053_jpeg-3212506.JPG The drone threat, which has created the need to reassess and redesign our air defenses, is such a huge problem I am not sure we can realistically address it even with these added assets at division and corps level. Corps or division level ADA battalions are sufficient to address the higher end threats posed by fighter aircraft, attack helicopters and the larger, more traditional unmanned systems like we operate. But it is these little off the shelf, cheap, hobby type drones that are changing the battelfield. They are numerous and they are everywhere. This is where an ADA battalion at corps is totally insufficient to deal with the threat. To deal with the kind of drones that are wreaking havoc in Ukraine right now, we're going to need low-end threat ADA systems being pushed down to and incorporated right into the armor and infantry platoons! Every tank, every IFV, every APC, every infantry squad, every supply truck is going to need some means for dealing with these kind of threats. A battalion of counter-UAS ADA added to whatever ADA brigade supporting an entire corps may sound impressive, but would be about as useless as a corps level anti-amor/fortification battalion. These are capabilities you need at the pointy tip of the spear, not back at corps! We don't make the Javelin, SMAW, Carl Gustav, and AT4 to be controlled at division or corps. They are incoporated right down to the platoon level where they are actually needed. Whatever the solution ultimately ends up being for these small, cheap FPV drones will need to employed in the same manner. Otherwise, it is a complete waste of time and will be totally ineffective. Every tracked and wheeled vehicle needs to become capable of serving as its own ADA, at least against the low end but most numerous threats. Every infantry squad needs something man portable they can carry into the field with them to protect against FPV drones. What does that look like in the end? I don't know. But perhaps we can make the cannons on IFVs work equally well at blasting armored vehicles or drones? Maybe a 40mm grenade with a promixty sensor that can give even the most basic infantry fire team some kinetic means of destroying these low end drones? You might even need a brand new weapon, maybe something incoporating something like that 25mm grenade with a ranging system we were looking at back around the turn of the century that could explode right over enemy infantry taking cover behind a wall. That is ultimately where this is headed. I'm glad to see the military has at least concluded the drone threat warrants something besides Patriot systems and looked smaller/cheaper at IR guided Hydra 70 rockets as a potential solution. But even that is only getting halfway there. We need something that can be carried on every vehicle and carried by every fire team to adequately address the hobby drone threat. Otherwise, in our next shooting war, it will be our guys starring in YT drone videos and dying by the thousands, as the Russians have in their war in Ukraine. I made the point a while back that every armored vehicle needs to be built with a base level of SHORAD capability, and is just differentiated by how specialized it is. That also lets you buy one system en masse and add extras as you think necessary. Stop looking at 50mm cannons with the idea of penetrating Russian IFVs from the front. That is far, far down the priority list from “taking out attack/spotter drones”. Every single armored vehicle needs a 30-35mm cannon with smart fuse ammo and at least a basic “SHORAD for Dummies” capability. The dedicated SHORAD vehicles get more/better sensors, radar, SAMs instead of ATGMS, etc. The US needs to buy/make these under license in mass for our forces  Attached File |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 3:36:22 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fadedsun: 
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Posted: 5/13/2024 4:30:37 AM EDT
[#38]
 A leak of 5 tons of oil occurred on an oil pipeline in the Kaluga region after a UAV attack on the First Plant refinery on May 10, - ASTRA sources The attack on the oil refinery in the village of Polotnyany Zavod took place on the night of May 9-10. As ASTRA previously reported, citing local residents who published videos, a fire broke out at the refinery after the attack. The governor confirmed the attack, but did not say what kind of enterprise he was talking about. As ASTRA found out, one of the drones hit the oil refining equipment of the First Plant refinery, and 3 fuel tanks also caught fire. In addition, an oil pipeline was damaged as a result of the fire, resulting in a spill of 5 tons of oil. No harm done. As local residents previously reported, the plant workers were evacuated around 12 midnight. https://t.me/astrapress/55343 |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 4:39:49 AM EDT
[#39]
    
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Posted: 5/13/2024 4:47:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Prime]
[#40]
🔍🪖🇺🇦 List of changes in Ukrainian army units since January 2024
# Creation of new units - five mechanized brigades: 150th, 151st, 152nd, 153rd and 154th BM (training in November-December 2023 but partly formalized in January 2024) - the 155th marine infantry brigade (BIMa) - the 30th Marine Corps - the 7th Corps of Airmobile Forces - 11th Reserve Corps (4 BM, 1 BA and one BB, probably the 5th) - a 3rd border guard combat brigade: the Hart brigade - an artillery brigade of the National Guard (equipped with 2S22 Bohdana and BM-21) - Vidar unit (battalion?) of the General Directorate of Intelligence from the Sonechko battalion - special forces regiment "Rangers" # Unit elevation - the 120th BDT will become a marine infantry brigade - the 100th BDT became a mechanized brigade - the Ivan Bohun brigade joins the territorial defense - the 32nd rocket regiment became a Marine artillery brigade - the 15th National Guard Regiment became the 18th National Guard Brigade "Slovyansk" - the 32nd National Guard Regiment became the 17th National Guard Brigade (BGN) - the 120th reconnaissance battalion became a regiment with a tank company. - the 16th Battalion of the National Guard became the 34th Regiment of the National Guard - the 11th National Guard Battalion became the 35th National Guard Regiment equipped with BTR-4 and Roshel Senator. # Integration - the 46th assault battalion "Donbass-Ukraine" became the 3rd mechanized battalion of the 54th BM. - the police regiment "Dnipro 1" is integrated into the Lyut mechanized brigade # Dissolution/reformation - changes in the 67th BM (problem with the Right Sector movement) - dissolution of the Dyke Pol special forces battalion (1st BM Ivan Bohun) #UkraineWarNews #UkraineRussianWar #UkrainianArmy 
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Posted: 5/13/2024 4:51:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 4xGM300m]
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kbi: The US needs to buy/make these under license in mass for our forces https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/77256/add-skyranger-30-for-top-tier-german-spa-3213093.JPG I would pay to watch 3 Ukrainian drone operators with 20 drones vs. one Skyranger. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 5:11:28 AM EDT
[#42]
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Posted: 5/13/2024 5:17:29 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Prime:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNYw5QAb0AAQv5C?format=jpg&name=large
She can be a psycho AND a honeytrap at the same time. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 5:22:02 AM EDT
[#44]
  Published 03 May 2024 Russian-occupied southern Ukraine Russian BMP-2 with BMP-2 675-sb3KDZ armour kit and an anti-drone cage |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 6:22:13 AM EDT
[#45]
Whatever we come up with to counter the small drones, my prediction is it will have to fire some version of birdshot, or maybe some sort of entanglement device.
Hitting a small drone with a single projectile or even an airburst round would require a ridiculously expensive and bulky system and everything on the battlefield is going to need one. Otherwise, everyone will bunch up around the protector and be vulnerable to other toys. Is there such a thing as a directed EMP gun that could fry a circuit board? Jamming comms to the drones won't work because the next gen drones are going to be completely autonomous. Perhaps the solution will be large swarms of killer drones programed to crash into or explode near other drones. Back that up with some sort of short range, radar or optically controlled, full auto shotgun to pick of the stragglers. Whatever it is, we better have it soon. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 7:03:40 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Birddog15: Is there such a thing as a directed EMP gun that could fry a circuit board? Jamming comms to the drones won't work because the next gen drones are going to be completely autonomous. An EM kill is a "zorch". There are systems that can do it, but there need to be more. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 7:11:38 AM EDT
[#47]
 Superturtle is done.
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Posted: 5/13/2024 7:28:14 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: The .50 cal is perfectly sufficient, firepower-wise, for most drone threats, and has the advantage of being able to carry and fire a shit-ton more ammo than either 35mm or 50mm. The issue is that you need a better acquisition system and a rapid "slew-to-cue" tracking capability. Also, for certain applications an upgrade from an M2HB to an M3P .50 cal for anti-drone may be justified. IF you are up against multiple drone swarms; acquisition, tracking capability, rate of fire and a metric shit-ton of ammo will be critical. I doubt that either a 35mm or a 50mm light and reliable enough to mount as an auxiliary weapon on most vehicles will be able to come close to the rate of fire of an M2 variant, and would be totally outclassed in RoF by an M3P. Also, a heavier gun (such as a 20mm, let alone a 35mm or 50mm) will need a heavier/larger cradle, mounting system, more robust auto-slew and elevation mechanism, etc. For a lot of vehicles, it would require a complete redesign to mount these weapons. There is a reason that the AVENGER systems gun armament is an M3P and not a 20mm or larger. A 500 round bin of .50 on a light/medium tactical vehicle is easily doable; a 200-round or more magazine for something like 35mm, not so much. Let's not even get into the logistics of movement and resupply of 35 or 50mm in the amounts required or what the reload times would look like. A good thought exercise would be to think about which you would rather reload during a drone swarm attack, a Ma-Deuce or an M242 Bushmaster? Which one is easier to clear or perform immediate action on? Which one is easier to maintain? Get the acquisition/tracking down and build an effective slew and auto-acquisition system, and the 90% solution is achieved without crushing your loggies and maintenance personnel, not to mention that fielding would be a lot faster! Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Saltwater-Hillbilly: Originally Posted By Charging_Handle: Originally Posted By Capta: I made the point a while back that every armored vehicle needs to be built with a base level of SHORAD capability, and is just differentiated by how specialized it is. That also lets you buy one system en masse and add extras as you think necessary. Stop looking at 50mm cannons with the idea of penetrating Russian IFVs from the front. That is far, far down the priority list from “taking out attack/spotter drones”. Every single armored vehicle needs a 30-35mm cannon with smart fuse ammo and at least a basic “SHORAD for Dummies” capability. The dedicated SHORAD vehicles get more/better sensors, radar, SAMs instead of ATGMS, etc. Agreed. For a cannon, I think 30-35mm is the sweet spot. Hell, the Bradley's 25mm gun seems plenty sufficient going up against Russian threats in Ukraine. As for wheeled vehicles and even some tracked ones, I think anything currently mounting an M2 .50 BMG machine gun should be upgraded with one of these instead: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Oshkosh_JLTV.jpg Everything from the JLTV on up needs a gun capable of shooting down drones. As for foot moble light infantry, I am not sure what the solution is. But it might involve mounting some sort of defensive weapon on a wheeled and/or tracked robotic vehicle that can accompany platoons or squads when on the move. A modernized mule packing an M230 30mm cannon would be nice to have for dealing with multiple ground and air based threats. I can now see where the talk of restructuring the current squad by adding a third fireteam to control drones and robotics makes sense. The rifle squad is going to need this level of organic capability just to survive the modern battlefield. WWII was an Army/Corps commander's war. Korea was a regimental commander's war. Vietnam developed into a company commander's war. The GWOT was largely a platoon leader's war. Our next war is probably going to be a squad leaders war. Decision-making keeps getting pushed down to smaller and smaller levels. With that needs to come a decentralization of certain assets, with these assets going from being a corps responsibility to much lower levels. Air defense is one of these. Corps can handle the big stuff. But every tank and infantry platoon needs its own organic air defense assets to deal with the smaller and more numerous threats. Shit is evolving fast and I worry we aren't keeping pace. The .50 cal is perfectly sufficient, firepower-wise, for most drone threats, and has the advantage of being able to carry and fire a shit-ton more ammo than either 35mm or 50mm. The issue is that you need a better acquisition system and a rapid "slew-to-cue" tracking capability. Also, for certain applications an upgrade from an M2HB to an M3P .50 cal for anti-drone may be justified. IF you are up against multiple drone swarms; acquisition, tracking capability, rate of fire and a metric shit-ton of ammo will be critical. I doubt that either a 35mm or a 50mm light and reliable enough to mount as an auxiliary weapon on most vehicles will be able to come close to the rate of fire of an M2 variant, and would be totally outclassed in RoF by an M3P. Also, a heavier gun (such as a 20mm, let alone a 35mm or 50mm) will need a heavier/larger cradle, mounting system, more robust auto-slew and elevation mechanism, etc. For a lot of vehicles, it would require a complete redesign to mount these weapons. There is a reason that the AVENGER systems gun armament is an M3P and not a 20mm or larger. A 500 round bin of .50 on a light/medium tactical vehicle is easily doable; a 200-round or more magazine for something like 35mm, not so much. Let's not even get into the logistics of movement and resupply of 35 or 50mm in the amounts required or what the reload times would look like. A good thought exercise would be to think about which you would rather reload during a drone swarm attack, a Ma-Deuce or an M242 Bushmaster? Which one is easier to clear or perform immediate action on? Which one is easier to maintain? Get the acquisition/tracking down and build an effective slew and auto-acquisition system, and the 90% solution is achieved without crushing your loggies and maintenance personnel, not to mention that fielding would be a lot faster! laser guided EXACTO .50 cal is my choice in that scenario.  EXACTO Live-Fire Tests, February 2015  DARPA - EXACTO In-Flight Guided .50 Caliber Bullets Live Firing Tests [720p] |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 7:29:50 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryThat has to be one of the highest totals in a day. Something spectacularly bad had to have happened on the Russian side for a tally like that. |
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Posted: 5/13/2024 7:46:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: R0N]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: laser guided EXACTO .50 cal is my choice in that scenario. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoOaJclkSZg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPRoaAXj-dIEXACTO has evolved first into MANGO and now its the technology in PGK aft. |
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