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Posted: 5/25/2023 2:09:48 PM EDT
I figured turning to the hive was the best way to kick start his research.
I’m a cop with 0 aviation background who has just always been interested in “one day” learning to fly. I am specifically interested in helicopters, less so in fixed wing aircraft. My initial research seems to find I can jump directly into lessons for rotary wing but at a significantly higher price point vs obtaining a private license for fixed wing first, and later moving on to rotary. Can you guys shed some light on what may be the more ideal route? At this time I’m thinking this will be a hobby that may one day turn into a post law enforcement career.
Link Posted: 5/25/2023 2:23:35 PM EDT
[#1]
I've had the same thought, but in the end there are way more jobs for fixed wing than for rotary. So it would make more sense to get fixed wing and hopefully one day get the job of police helo pilot.
Link Posted: 5/25/2023 3:28:59 PM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 5/25/2023 11:33:42 PM EDT
[#3]
The regs let you do an "add-on" category in less hours, but it's unlikely you'll be ready to for the checkride in that amount of time.  In all the years I was an instructor, very few people even got the Private in the minimum number of hours (40), much less 30 or so.  We had one guy that did it, but he was a software engineer for Boeing and had thousands of unlogged hours in the AH-64 simulator.  Then I had two other guys that were just naturals in it.  75% got their certificates in 50-60 hrs......more people took longer than that, than took less than that.

So, don't do the fixed wing thing thinking you're going to somehow save money.  Plus, fixed wing hours hardly mean anything in the world of helicopter insurance.  If you want to be a helicopter pilot, don't screw around with airplanes right now.  If you ever want to add-on the fixed wing rating, then you can probably do that in a very short amount of time.....the initial/private in an airplane is a walk in the park compared to helicopters.  I found the instrument in airplanes actually a little harder because of all the extra speed you're carrying in an airplane--too easy to just slow down to 60 kts in a helicopter.
Link Posted: 5/26/2023 1:11:35 AM EDT
[#4]
Does your department have an aviation unit?

When I was an instructor I met a guy who had his private fixed wing. Was a cop and since he had his fixed wing rating they put him in their program and got him his rotor wing all the way through instrument and commercial, then flew their LE helicopters.
Link Posted: 5/26/2023 2:25:40 AM EDT
[#5]
Definitely not.   The other way around.   Your hourly rate for fixed wing is going to be a fraction of rotary costs.    And for most of it, you are learning all the same basic pilot info, like rules, procedures, weather, etc
Link Posted: 5/26/2023 3:39:17 AM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 5/26/2023 3:50:05 AM EDT
[#7]
A civ rotary wing ticket is so much damn money, especially if you are too big and heavy for an R22. On the plus side, after you’ve spent $50,000 on a rotary wing ticket all you’ll need for fixed wing is an afternoon with an instructor and a check ride. If you’re paying for it go for a fixed wing private. You should be able to get it done for $5k-ish and start building time.
Link Posted: 5/26/2023 8:09:22 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Does your department have an aviation unit?

When I was an instructor I met a guy who had his private fixed wing. Was a cop and since he had his fixed wing rating they put him in their program and got him his rotor wing all the way through instrument and commercial, then flew their LE helicopters.
View Quote


My agency is teeny tiny, no aviation unfortunately.
Link Posted: 5/26/2023 8:10:22 AM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
A civ rotary wing ticket is so much damn money, especially if you are too big and heavy for an R22. On the plus side, after you’ve spent $50,000 on a rotary wing ticket all you’ll need for fixed wing is an afternoon with an instructor and a check ride. If you’re paying for it go for a fixed wing private. You should be able to get it done for $5k-ish and start building time.
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This seems to be the consensus. It’s going to be all on my dime and time.
Link Posted: 5/26/2023 9:12:05 AM EDT
[#10]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


This seems to be the consensus. It’s going to be all on my dime and time.
View Quote


Yeah, the consensus from the crowd who are not helicopter CFI's and think it's like a weekend course of adding on a multi or seaplane class rating.  This is a category add-on.  The only thing that crosses over is the book work, and how to use the radio.  Otherwise, they are two completely different animals.  Learning "stick & rudder" in an airplane first is going to do nothing for you in a helicopter.

Your goal is to fly helicopters, right?  What are you getting out of spending $5-10K and 6-12 months in an airplane for?  Unless you are part of the very slim margin, it's still going to take you (on average) 50-60 hrs to get your rating.  Hardly any one is ready to solo before 20 hours, and you'd be hard pressed to find an instructor that's going to sign you off with less than that even if you are a natural.  Then you still need 10 hrs of solo/PIC, and then all the checkride prep.  Add it up......still looking at 30-40 hrs MINIMUM anyway.  Let's say you were in the 1% and took the checkride at 30 hrs......you saved 10 hrs from the minimum of 40.......so you saved $3000-4000.   I haven't added it all up since they changed Pt. 91, but the absolute minimum used to be 23 hours since you had to do all the cross countries, solo, night, checkride prep, etc in category......but if you're in a Robinson, you have to do 20 hrs dual before solo because of SFAR 73 anyway.  So the MAX savings is 17 hrs in anything but a Robinson, so in a fantasy land let's say, $6000-8000 savings??  Again, you're spending a MINIMUM of $5000 in airplane to get your private.  What is the point?

Go sign up on a helicopter forum and ask this same question.
Link Posted: 5/26/2023 9:53:53 AM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Yeah, the consensus from the crowd who are not helicopter CFI's and think it's like a weekend course of adding on a multi or seaplane class rating.  This is a category add-on.  The only thing that crosses over is the book work, and how to use the radio.  Otherwise, they are two completely different animals.  Learning "stick & rudder" in an airplane first is going to do nothing for you in a helicopter.

Your goal is to fly helicopters, right?  What are you getting out of spending $5-10K and 6-12 months in an airplane for?  Unless you are part of the very slim margin, it's still going to take you (on average) 50-60 hrs to get your rating.  Hardly any one is ready to solo before 20 hours, and you'd be hard pressed to find an instructor that's going to sign you off with less than that even if you are a natural.  Then you still need 10 hrs of solo/PIC, and then all the checkride prep.  Add it up......still looking at 30-40 hrs MINIMUM anyway.  Let's say you were in the 1% and took the checkride at 30 hrs......you saved 10 hrs from the minimum of 40.......so you saved $3000-4000.   I haven't added it all up since they changed Pt. 91, but the absolute minimum used to be 23 hours since you had to do all the cross countries, solo, night, checkride prep, etc in category......but if you're in a Robinson, you have to do 20 hrs dual before solo because of SFAR 73 anyway.  So the MAX savings is 17 hrs in anything but a Robinson, so in a fantasy land let's say, $6000-8000 savings??  Again, you're spending a MINIMUM of $5000 in airplane to get your private.  What is the point?

Go sign up on a helicopter forum and ask this same question.
View Quote


This guy gets it.

Also an average $5k asel private? Maybe over 30 years ago.
Link Posted: 5/26/2023 10:28:01 AM EDT
[#12]
Helicopter training is prohibitively expensive if your goal is to get a pilot job that pays more than poverty wages.  Helicopters are $$$ and very easy to damage - insurance often requires significant hours to get reasonable rates.  

Some departments take existing officers and train them from the start to fly.  St. Louis PD does this - they have small Cessnas and get you your private FW first then move into helicopters.  

Look around you for a department or state police that has aviation.  Some take pilots and make them cops, some take cops and make them pilots.  

St. Louis has a few army surplus oh6 - this one is a 69 model that still has bullet hole patches from Vietnam!  

Link Posted: 5/26/2023 10:51:23 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Yeah, the consensus from the crowd who are not helicopter CFI's and think it's like a weekend course of adding on a multi or seaplane class rating.  This is a category add-on.  The only thing that crosses over is the book work, and how to use the radio.  Otherwise, they are two completely different animals.  Learning "stick & rudder" in an airplane first is going to do nothing for you in a helicopter.

Your goal is to fly helicopters, right?  What are you getting out of spending $5-10K and 6-12 months in an airplane for?  Unless you are part of the very slim margin, it's still going to take you (on average) 50-60 hrs to get your rating.  Hardly any one is ready to solo before 20 hours, and you'd be hard pressed to find an instructor that's going to sign you off with less than that even if you are a natural.  Then you still need 10 hrs of solo/PIC, and then all the checkride prep.  Add it up......still looking at 30-40 hrs MINIMUM anyway.  Let's say you were in the 1% and took the checkride at 30 hrs......you saved 10 hrs from the minimum of 40.......so you saved $3000-4000.   I haven't added it all up since they changed Pt. 91, but the absolute minimum used to be 23 hours since you had to do all the cross countries, solo, night, checkride prep, etc in category......but if you're in a Robinson, you have to do 20 hrs dual before solo because of SFAR 73 anyway.  So the MAX savings is 17 hrs in anything but a Robinson, so in a fantasy land let's say, $6000-8000 savings??  Again, you're spending a MINIMUM of $5000 in airplane to get your private.  What is the point?

Go sign up on a helicopter forum and ask this same question.
View Quote


Commercial helicopter pilot and R44 owner/operator

That totally nailed it. I was a rotary wing add-on student and I can guarantee you that, while it was not like starting from scratch, it still took me the full 40 hours. But even if I had done it in the minimum allowable 30 hours for an add-on, that 10 hours I might have saved would never equate to a fixed wing certificate in dollars spent, not even close.

If rotary wing is your dream, and you've got the bucks, then just go right for it.

I will add one thing: if I could do it all over again, I would have spent some time in a home-simulator environment before I started training. Adequate PC's are cheap, the software is free. What costs you is a good, realistic set of helicopter controls. They will run you about $1500 (example). Considering you will be paying on the order of $300/hr dual for instruction, if you save 5 hours in your training then you've paid for the simulator controls. If you save more than 5 hours then it's a profit. And you can always resell the controls.

Standard new student advice applies: get the written out of the way first before doing a single hour of flight instruction, and get the medical out of the way very early on. That way you can concentrate on just the flying part for maximum efficiency. This will make brushing up before the oral exam a little more difficult, but ground instruction is cheap, flight instruction is expensive.
Link Posted: 5/26/2023 1:57:28 PM EDT
[#14]
Are you young enough to go join a National Guard unit as a pilot and have them pay for all of your training?

I knew a guy that ran a helicopter company and employed 40-50 pilots.   I asked him how many were prior military.  He said they all were, and that it was the easiest way to meet insurance requirements for turbine time.
Link Posted: 5/26/2023 2:36:57 PM EDT
[#15]
If you've never flown in one and if there are any helo flight schools in your area, I'd sign up for an introductory flight just to make sure it's to your liking. I've known some folks that are just fine in a B737, but find that small, light aircraft are not their cup of tea.

And yeah, if helos are what you want to fly, go that route from the start.
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