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Link Posted: 10/14/2019 3:56:58 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:

No, I don't believe I am. I believe love itself (at least the level of love required to hold a relationship together for life) is indeed transient.

I grant this may be personal bias speaking. My life experience (mixed with some evolutionary psychology) has told me nothing other than that everlasting love does not exist and that human relationships are by nature transient unless both parties make a truly active, overt, dedicated effort otherwise and that this is generally a minority outcome.
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Love as a noun, that "in love" emotional feeling at the beginning of a relationship that sprays dopamine and serotonin into our brain like a shaken-up soda, is indeed transient.

Love as a verb, the actions you take to build, nurture and grow a relationship can be forever. It takes intent and motivation, which can be hard work.
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 3:59:00 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By BigMat:
No thanks

I'm happily married and lonely old people make me sad.

Relationships are like money, the better strategy is long term investment.  Day trading is thrilling, but high risk.
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LOL...  Good analogy...
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 3:59:36 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Jmmoney:
Define love for me.
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Originally Posted By Jmmoney:
Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:

No, I don't believe I am. I believe love itself (at least the level of love required to hold a relationship together for life) is indeed transient.

I grant this may be personal bias speaking. My life experience (mixed with some evolutionary psychology) has told me nothing other than that everlasting love does not exist and that human relationships are by nature transient unless both parties make a truly active, overt, dedicated effort otherwise and that this is generally a minority outcome.
Define love for me.
Love is deep sense of caring that inherently carries with it a sense of duty/commitment to another person. You love when you find value in someone beyond physical appeal or simple (primarily materialistic) short term gains they can offer you - to love means to not care about someone's material state (body, possessions, money, status, etc.) and caring about their being itself regardless of and separate from those externalities.

Love is however not a single, fixed state and can vary in both type and intensity. In other words there's "I'd toss myself off a bridge for you unquestioningly" love, "I'll be there to the best of my ability and extent of my resources, but won't entirely sacrifice myself for you" love, etc. I don't see it as a sharply defined point with absolutely no space to the right or left for branching/varying states.

I'll say that defining it is not particularly easy for me and the above is merely the best definition I can manage at the moment.
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 3:59:55 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By GunslingerPoet:
You seem pretty butthurt for him to be as far off the mark as you would suggest.

What's the longest relationship you've been in?
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Originally Posted By GunslingerPoet:
Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By bgenlvtex:
Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By bgenlvtex:
Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By bgenlvtex:
Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By bgenlvtex:
Married 32.

The only people slinging that garbage is people trying to explain away their own inadequacy or with an agenda to undermine normal heterosexual relationships.

Not buying what you're selling, thanks though.
Different perspectives are scary, yo.
No they're not, wrong isn't scary, it's just wrong.
Says the guy who made up a straw man to argue against.
Says the guy projecting fear of different opinions while objecting to different opinions.

Explain to me why I should be scared of your opinion.
You constructed two straw man arguments, two arguments I never presented or argued for, stating those are the "only" reasons for "slinging that garbage". Your hostility towards my position and presentation of not just one but two pure straw man arguments suggests you have a deeper issue with my position than you're letting on.
LOL, comes to GD for "curmudgeonly perspective", gets curmudgeonly perspective and vagina becomes swollen and sand filled when curmudgeonly perspective hits too close to home.

Just like I'm not buying what you are selling, you don't have to buy what I'm selling.

Pretty clear you didn't come here for different perspective, you came here for confirmation of your bias, and you aren't getting it.
Ok sure.
You seem pretty butthurt for him to be as far off the mark as you would suggest.

What's the longest relationship you've been in?
Romantic? Haven't been.
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 4:00:09 PM EDT
Life is what YOU make it.
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 4:03:39 PM EDT
Late 40's so not a curmudgeon quite yet.

After 2 divorces I have indeed come to see relationships as transient.  I'd rather not view them this way; I'd much rather have a lifelong spouse I can trust and depend on.  However based on personal experience it would be illogical for me to expect otherwise.
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 4:11:11 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Jahdai42:
much happier in a long term marriage than short term fling.
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This. Plus the sex just keeps getting better and better.
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 4:13:04 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By JHS:
Please clarify, is the relationship transient, or just the romantic part?
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He's banging a homeless girl living in a tent in the park in exchange for cheeseburgers.  
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 4:15:16 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
I guess my issue is this clashes with the fact that the initial intensity/passion tends to fade dramatically for both people as the relationship progresses and the evidence of sperm competition in humans.

That, and the way-off-to-the-side branch of this argument (that I was firmly on for a little while) that says women are always looking to trade up and men are always looking to spread their seed to as many receivers as possible.

My problem is that my life experience tells me that the entire cultural concept that prevails in the U.S. today (that of dedicated long term relationships, long term but not life long relationships are somehow a waste/bad/not as fulfilling, denial of the existence of fading interest in the other person, etc.) is a collective charade. It feels like we've deluded ourselves into believing the current formula for how relationships work is the best (or at least the least imperfect) solution available. I just have trouble seeing it.
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Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By sitdwnandhngon:
Probably not, as a species we are wired to pair off most of the time, makes raising offspring easier (and safer).

A few other species also mate for life, we evolved that way for a reason, so we are kind of hard wired for it.
I guess my issue is this clashes with the fact that the initial intensity/passion tends to fade dramatically for both people as the relationship progresses and the evidence of sperm competition in humans.

That, and the way-off-to-the-side branch of this argument (that I was firmly on for a little while) that says women are always looking to trade up and men are always looking to spread their seed to as many receivers as possible.

My problem is that my life experience tells me that the entire cultural concept that prevails in the U.S. today (that of dedicated long term relationships, long term but not life long relationships are somehow a waste/bad/not as fulfilling, denial of the existence of fading interest in the other person, etc.) is a collective charade. It feels like we've deluded ourselves into believing the current formula for how relationships work is the best (or at least the least imperfect) solution available. I just have trouble seeing it.
California is fucking with your head.

Are you greater than the sum of your animal instincts? Can you resist a strange piece of pussy? Can you decide right or wrong for yourself?

Using our brains to THINK instead of FEEL and relying on instincts is how we do all the cool shit .
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 4:15:35 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Stutzmech:
35 here, they're as serious as you make them
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Very much agree with this.

If you go into it expecting failure, that’s most likely the outcome you’ll get.
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 4:15:58 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Romantic? Haven't been.
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Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By GunslingerPoet:
Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By bgenlvtex:
Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By bgenlvtex:
Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By bgenlvtex:
Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By bgenlvtex:
Married 32.

The only people slinging that garbage is people trying to explain away their own inadequacy or with an agenda to undermine normal heterosexual relationships.

Not buying what you're selling, thanks though.
Different perspectives are scary, yo.
No they're not, wrong isn't scary, it's just wrong.
Says the guy who made up a straw man to argue against.
Says the guy projecting fear of different opinions while objecting to different opinions.

Explain to me why I should be scared of your opinion.
You constructed two straw man arguments, two arguments I never presented or argued for, stating those are the "only" reasons for "slinging that garbage". Your hostility towards my position and presentation of not just one but two pure straw man arguments suggests you have a deeper issue with my position than you're letting on.
LOL, comes to GD for "curmudgeonly perspective", gets curmudgeonly perspective and vagina becomes swollen and sand filled when curmudgeonly perspective hits too close to home.

Just like I'm not buying what you are selling, you don't have to buy what I'm selling.

Pretty clear you didn't come here for different perspective, you came here for confirmation of your bias, and you aren't getting it.
Ok sure.
You seem pretty butthurt for him to be as far off the mark as you would suggest.

What's the longest relationship you've been in?
Romantic? Haven't been.
And you're how old?
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 4:16:55 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Romantic? Haven't been.
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Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By GunslingerPoet:
Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By bgenlvtex:
Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By bgenlvtex:
Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By bgenlvtex:
Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By bgenlvtex:
Married 32.

The only people slinging that garbage is people trying to explain away their own inadequacy or with an agenda to undermine normal heterosexual relationships.

Not buying what you're selling, thanks though.
Different perspectives are scary, yo.
No they're not, wrong isn't scary, it's just wrong.
Says the guy who made up a straw man to argue against.
Says the guy projecting fear of different opinions while objecting to different opinions.

Explain to me why I should be scared of your opinion.
You constructed two straw man arguments, two arguments I never presented or argued for, stating those are the "only" reasons for "slinging that garbage". Your hostility towards my position and presentation of not just one but two pure straw man arguments suggests you have a deeper issue with my position than you're letting on.
LOL, comes to GD for "curmudgeonly perspective", gets curmudgeonly perspective and vagina becomes swollen and sand filled when curmudgeonly perspective hits too close to home.

Just like I'm not buying what you are selling, you don't have to buy what I'm selling.

Pretty clear you didn't come here for different perspective, you came here for confirmation of your bias, and you aren't getting it.
Ok sure.
You seem pretty butthurt for him to be as far off the mark as you would suggest.

What's the longest relationship you've been in?
Romantic? Haven't been.
Ok, you have had 0 romantic relationships? What's your story? Age, born, work, family issues, etc.
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 4:18:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2019 4:19:52 PM EDT by Jmmoney]
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Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:

Love is deep sense of caring that inherently carries with it a sense of duty/commitment to another person. You love when you find value in someone beyond physical appeal or simple (primarily materialistic) short term gains they can offer you - to love means to not care about someone's material state (body, possessions, money, status, etc.) and caring about their being itself regardless of and separate from those externalities.

Love is however not a single, fixed state and can vary in both type and intensity. In other words there's "I'd toss myself off a bridge for you unquestioningly" love, "I'll be there to the best of my ability and extent of my resources, but won't entirely sacrifice myself for you" love, etc. I don't see it as a sharply defined point with absolutely no space to the right or left for branching/varying states.

I'll say that defining it is not particularly easy for me and the above is merely the best definition I can manage at the moment.
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Doesn't seem like a bad definition.

I think the ancient Greeks had the various types of love best defined.

I don't think what you're saying is necessarily wrong, love does indeed take work; however, I don't agree that we should alter our cultures view of romantic relationships in the way you're suggesting as it would just create further problems.

I believe most of our current problems stem from far too many relationships being built on physical attraction and the initial dopamine rush. We need to stop teaching people that sex = love.
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 4:20:36 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Romantic? Haven't been.
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Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By GunslingerPoet:
Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By bgenlvtex:
Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By bgenlvtex:
Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By bgenlvtex:
Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By bgenlvtex:
Married 32.

The only people slinging that garbage is people trying to explain away their own inadequacy or with an agenda to undermine normal heterosexual relationships.

Not buying what you're selling, thanks though.
Different perspectives are scary, yo.
No they're not, wrong isn't scary, it's just wrong.
Says the guy who made up a straw man to argue against.
Says the guy projecting fear of different opinions while objecting to different opinions.

Explain to me why I should be scared of your opinion.
You constructed two straw man arguments, two arguments I never presented or argued for, stating those are the "only" reasons for "slinging that garbage". Your hostility towards my position and presentation of not just one but two pure straw man arguments suggests you have a deeper issue with my position than you're letting on.
LOL, comes to GD for "curmudgeonly perspective", gets curmudgeonly perspective and vagina becomes swollen and sand filled when curmudgeonly perspective hits too close to home.

Just like I'm not buying what you are selling, you don't have to buy what I'm selling.

Pretty clear you didn't come here for different perspective, you came here for confirmation of your bias, and you aren't getting it.
Ok sure.
You seem pretty butthurt for him to be as far off the mark as you would suggest.

What's the longest relationship you've been in?
Romantic? Haven't been.
That explains...a lot.
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 4:24:25 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Romantic? Haven't been.
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Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By GunslingerPoet:
Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By bgenlvtex:
Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By bgenlvtex:
Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By bgenlvtex:
Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By bgenlvtex:
Married 32.

The only people slinging that garbage is people trying to explain away their own inadequacy or with an agenda to undermine normal heterosexual relationships.

Not buying what you're selling, thanks though.
Different perspectives are scary, yo.
No they're not, wrong isn't scary, it's just wrong.
Says the guy who made up a straw man to argue against.
Says the guy projecting fear of different opinions while objecting to different opinions.

Explain to me why I should be scared of your opinion.
You constructed two straw man arguments, two arguments I never presented or argued for, stating those are the "only" reasons for "slinging that garbage". Your hostility towards my position and presentation of not just one but two pure straw man arguments suggests you have a deeper issue with my position than you're letting on.
LOL, comes to GD for "curmudgeonly perspective", gets curmudgeonly perspective and vagina becomes swollen and sand filled when curmudgeonly perspective hits too close to home.

Just like I'm not buying what you are selling, you don't have to buy what I'm selling.

Pretty clear you didn't come here for different perspective, you came here for confirmation of your bias, and you aren't getting it.
Ok sure.
You seem pretty butthurt for him to be as far off the mark as you would suggest.

What's the longest relationship you've been in?
Romantic? Haven't been.
This coupled with your own admission that you have a difficult time defining love leads me to believe that your life experiences (one of your sited bases for your argument) might be a bit lacking.
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 4:31:18 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:

Romantic? Haven't been.
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Speculating about romantic relationships when you have never been in one sounds a bit like talking about AR15s when you have never owned one, shot one or even handled one.

In short, there are gaps in your knowledge base. And that's the most politely I can put it.
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 4:32:12 PM EDT
Originally Posted By GunslingerPoet:

And you're how old?
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Younger than you think I am.

Originally Posted By cash50:

Ok, you have had 0 romantic relationships? What's your story? Age, born, work, family issues, etc.
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Broken home, kinda. Mother was a raging, brutal alcoholic with severe depression that went largely untreated alongside a myriad of other issues (childhood abuse, pathological lying, etc.). Lied to my dad in an effort to get pregnant (worked, obviously). I don't believe she ever really loved me and I was merely a part of the wild fantasy world her severely damaged mind invented.

Dad tried his best, not a bad person, but he too has severe childhood trauma he never worked through and the situation with my mom only served to make things worse.

Bullied in school, never popular. Always hated the "power couples", popular kids, and basically anyone that wasn't a near total outcast was not someone I socialized with. My social time was largely spent hanging out with punks, nihilists, other people from homes more broken than mine, drug users, etc. I don't connect well at all with people who don't express at least some degree of existential nihilism and who can't say they had a moment in their life where they thought "my life fucking sucks".
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 4:38:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/14/2019 4:41:04 PM EDT by AR-10]
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Originally Posted By cash50:
Ok, you have had 0 romantic relationships? What's your story? Age, born, work, family issues, etc.
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This.
If it's too many questions, start with how old you are.

edit; I see you answered most of it.

How old are you?
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 4:42:55 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Younger than you think I am.

Broken home, kinda. Mother was a raging, brutal alcoholic with severe depression that went largely untreated alongside a myriad of other issues (childhood abuse, pathological lying, etc.). Lied to my dad in an effort to get pregnant (worked, obviously). I don't believe she ever really loved me and I was merely a part of the wild fantasy world her severely damaged mind invented.

Dad tried his best, not a bad person, but he too has severe childhood trauma he never worked through and the situation with my mom only served to make things worse.

Bullied in school, never popular. Always hated the "power couples", popular kids, and basically anyone that wasn't a near total outcast was not someone I socialized with. My social time was largely spent hanging out with punks, nihilists, other people from homes more broken than mine, drug users, etc. I don't connect well at all with people who don't express at least some degree of existential nihilism and who can't say they had a moment in their life where they thought "my life fucking sucks".
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Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By GunslingerPoet:

And you're how old?
Younger than you think I am.

Originally Posted By cash50:

Ok, you have had 0 romantic relationships? What's your story? Age, born, work, family issues, etc.
Broken home, kinda. Mother was a raging, brutal alcoholic with severe depression that went largely untreated alongside a myriad of other issues (childhood abuse, pathological lying, etc.). Lied to my dad in an effort to get pregnant (worked, obviously). I don't believe she ever really loved me and I was merely a part of the wild fantasy world her severely damaged mind invented.

Dad tried his best, not a bad person, but he too has severe childhood trauma he never worked through and the situation with my mom only served to make things worse.

Bullied in school, never popular. Always hated the "power couples", popular kids, and basically anyone that wasn't a near total outcast was not someone I socialized with. My social time was largely spent hanging out with punks, nihilists, other people from homes more broken than mine, drug users, etc. I don't connect well at all with people who don't express at least some degree of existential nihilism and who can't say they had a moment in their life where they thought "my life fucking sucks".
Sounds like my "strawman" was directly over target.

Sorry, get off the fucking internet and quit posting about shit you have never experienced, and......... go experience it.

Check back in about 10 years and we can talk.
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 4:54:02 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Younger than you think I am.

Broken home, kinda. Mother was a raging, brutal alcoholic with severe depression that went largely untreated alongside a myriad of other issues (childhood abuse, pathological lying, etc.). Lied to my dad in an effort to get pregnant (worked, obviously). I don't believe she ever really loved me and I was merely a part of the wild fantasy world her severely damaged mind invented.

Dad tried his best, not a bad person, but he too has severe childhood trauma he never worked through and the situation with my mom only served to make things worse.

Bullied in school, never popular. Always hated the "power couples", popular kids, and basically anyone that wasn't a near total outcast was not someone I socialized with. My social time was largely spent hanging out with punks, nihilists, other people from homes more broken than mine, drug users, etc. I don't connect well at all with people who don't express at least some degree of existential nihilism and who can't say they had a moment in their life where they thought "my life fucking sucks".
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So you grew up in a broken shitty home. You made friends with broken shitty people. You think that being broken and shitty is normal. It's not. Stop striving to live the life you hate. Chose to be happy. Stop acting like a victim and you will stop being a victim. You are, I assume, an adult. Act like one. Buy some decent adult clothes, turn off the self loathing crappy music, smile and decide to make your life better. Wonder of wonders it will all get better. Your "friends" will hate you and call you a sell out. Its because they aren't real friends, they are just mutual victims who wallow in your mutual self imposed sorrow. They are mad at you for digging yourself out of that sorrow. Ignore them and realize that they "power couples" and popular people were and are popular because they were fun to be around and, for the most part, tended to help each other be successful and make connections with other successful people.

You have gone a long way in making all of your life the fault of other people or your shitty childhood. Shut that lie off and realize that your adult life is 100% what YOU choose it to be. You want to hop from meaningless sad pathetic relationship to the next then you will always be a victim.
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 4:59:23 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By bgenlvtex:
Sounds like my "strawman" was directly over target.

Sorry, get off the fucking internet and quit posting about shit you have never experienced, and......... go experience it.

Check back in about 10 years and we can talk.
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Originally Posted By bgenlvtex:
Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By GunslingerPoet:

And you're how old?
Younger than you think I am.

Originally Posted By cash50:

Ok, you have had 0 romantic relationships? What's your story? Age, born, work, family issues, etc.
Broken home, kinda. Mother was a raging, brutal alcoholic with severe depression that went largely untreated alongside a myriad of other issues (childhood abuse, pathological lying, etc.). Lied to my dad in an effort to get pregnant (worked, obviously). I don't believe she ever really loved me and I was merely a part of the wild fantasy world her severely damaged mind invented.

Dad tried his best, not a bad person, but he too has severe childhood trauma he never worked through and the situation with my mom only served to make things worse.

Bullied in school, never popular. Always hated the "power couples", popular kids, and basically anyone that wasn't a near total outcast was not someone I socialized with. My social time was largely spent hanging out with punks, nihilists, other people from homes more broken than mine, drug users, etc. I don't connect well at all with people who don't express at least some degree of existential nihilism and who can't say they had a moment in their life where they thought "my life fucking sucks".
Sounds like my "strawman" was directly over target.

Sorry, get off the fucking internet and quit posting about shit you have never experienced, and......... go experience it.

Check back in about 10 years and we can talk.
JFC relax man.

OP I think maybe you didn't have the best start, but that can all change. It's a long, hard, uncomfortable journey. I'm glad you're on this site asking about thigns though.
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 5:13:51 PM EDT
Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Started a Reddit 'Change My View' thread in which I stated relationships should be viewed as transient by nature and that this position has several advantages over expecting or strictly holding to the idea that any serious relationship you have must be permanent and if isn't then it was a failure.

Figured I might as well get the curmudgeonly-old-man GD take on this as well.
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I'm married 17 years and I love my wife. That declaration out of the way, I've evolved a more 'market-oriented' view of marriage over the years.

It won't apply to me, because I've already made my vows, but definitely something every subsequent person should think about before saying 'I do' and 'til death do us part'.

I definitely want that to be the dominant view of my kids (one boy, and one girl).
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 5:29:59 PM EDT
I would never have a a romantic relationship with a transient.
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 6:15:59 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Younger than you think I am.

Broken home, kinda. Mother was a raging, brutal alcoholic with severe depression that went largely untreated alongside a myriad of other issues (childhood abuse, pathological lying, etc.). Lied to my dad in an effort to get pregnant (worked, obviously). I don't believe she ever really loved me and I was merely a part of the wild fantasy world her severely damaged mind invented.

Dad tried his best, not a bad person, but he too has severe childhood trauma he never worked through and the situation with my mom only served to make things worse.

Bullied in school, never popular. Always hated the "power couples", popular kids, and basically anyone that wasn't a near total outcast was not someone I socialized with. My social time was largely spent hanging out with punks, nihilists, other people from homes more broken than mine, drug users, etc. I don't connect well at all with people who don't express at least some degree of existential nihilism and who can't say they had a moment in their life where they thought "my life fucking sucks".
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Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By GunslingerPoet:

And you're how old?
Younger than you think I am.

Originally Posted By cash50:

Ok, you have had 0 romantic relationships? What's your story? Age, born, work, family issues, etc.
Broken home, kinda. Mother was a raging, brutal alcoholic with severe depression that went largely untreated alongside a myriad of other issues (childhood abuse, pathological lying, etc.). Lied to my dad in an effort to get pregnant (worked, obviously). I don't believe she ever really loved me and I was merely a part of the wild fantasy world her severely damaged mind invented.

Dad tried his best, not a bad person, but he too has severe childhood trauma he never worked through and the situation with my mom only served to make things worse.

Bullied in school, never popular. Always hated the "power couples", popular kids, and basically anyone that wasn't a near total outcast was not someone I socialized with. My social time was largely spent hanging out with punks, nihilists, other people from homes more broken than mine, drug users, etc. I don't connect well at all with people who don't express at least some degree of existential nihilism and who can't say they had a moment in their life where they thought "my life fucking sucks".
In other words, you have very little experience at anything, and what you do have is troubled and very atypical. This is hardly a deep well of experience from which one can draw generalizations on human behavior. I think the other fellow is correct: you have this impression because you have yet to develop the ability to sustain a healthy relationship, or to determine what sort of partner will make a reliable companion.
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 7:02:55 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By Jmmoney:
Doesn't seem like a bad definition.

I think the ancient Greeks had the various types of love best defined.

I don't think what you're saying is necessarily wrong, love does indeed take work; however, I don't agree that we should alter our cultures view of romantic relationships in the way you're suggesting as it would just create further problems.

I believe most of our current problems stem from far too many relationships being built on physical attraction and the initial dopamine rush. We need to stop teaching people that sex = love.
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Originally Posted By Jmmoney:
Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:

Love is deep sense of caring that inherently carries with it a sense of duty/commitment to another person. You love when you find value in someone beyond physical appeal or simple (primarily materialistic) short term gains they can offer you - to love means to not care about someone's material state (body, possessions, money, status, etc.) and caring about their being itself regardless of and separate from those externalities.

Love is however not a single, fixed state and can vary in both type and intensity. In other words there's "I'd toss myself off a bridge for you unquestioningly" love, "I'll be there to the best of my ability and extent of my resources, but won't entirely sacrifice myself for you" love, etc. I don't see it as a sharply defined point with absolutely no space to the right or left for branching/varying states.

I'll say that defining it is not particularly easy for me and the above is merely the best definition I can manage at the moment.
Doesn't seem like a bad definition.

I think the ancient Greeks had the various types of love best defined.

I don't think what you're saying is necessarily wrong, love does indeed take work; however, I don't agree that we should alter our cultures view of romantic relationships in the way you're suggesting as it would just create further problems.

I believe most of our current problems stem from far too many relationships being built on physical attraction and the initial dopamine rush. We need to stop teaching people that sex = love.
I don't think that the concept of sex = love is a 21st or 20th century idea. That has been around longer than that.

Heck, for centuries the concept of marriage wasn't even love, it was generally political or economical.
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 7:19:52 PM EDT
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Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Younger than you think I am.

Broken home, kinda. Mother was a raging, brutal alcoholic with severe depression that went largely untreated alongside a myriad of other issues (childhood abuse, pathological lying, etc.). Lied to my dad in an effort to get pregnant (worked, obviously). I don't believe she ever really loved me and I was merely a part of the wild fantasy world her severely damaged mind invented.

Dad tried his best, not a bad person, but he too has severe childhood trauma he never worked through and the situation with my mom only served to make things worse.

Bullied in school, never popular. Always hated the "power couples", popular kids, and basically anyone that wasn't a near total outcast was not someone I socialized with. My social time was largely spent hanging out with punks, nihilists, other people from homes more broken than mine, drug users, etc. I don't connect well at all with people who don't express at least some degree of existential nihilism and who can't say they had a moment in their life where they thought "my life fucking sucks".
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Originally Posted By CAKEPWNER:
Originally Posted By GunslingerPoet:

And you're how old?
Younger than you think I am.

Originally Posted By cash50:

Ok, you have had 0 romantic relationships? What's your story? Age, born, work, family issues, etc.
Broken home, kinda. Mother was a raging, brutal alcoholic with severe depression that went largely untreated alongside a myriad of other issues (childhood abuse, pathological lying, etc.). Lied to my dad in an effort to get pregnant (worked, obviously). I don't believe she ever really loved me and I was merely a part of the wild fantasy world her severely damaged mind invented.

Dad tried his best, not a bad person, but he too has severe childhood trauma he never worked through and the situation with my mom only served to make things worse.

Bullied in school, never popular. Always hated the "power couples", popular kids, and basically anyone that wasn't a near total outcast was not someone I socialized with. My social time was largely spent hanging out with punks, nihilists, other people from homes more broken than mine, drug users, etc. I don't connect well at all with people who don't express at least some degree of existential nihilism and who can't say they had a moment in their life where they thought "my life fucking sucks".
I grew up FAR worse off then you and have been happily married going 18 years and together for 21.

Using your broken home is a poor excuse. Life is what you make it. That broken home shit is in your past, let go off it and focus on the future. Make the future whatever you want.

Successful marriages are like anything else, they take some work and you get out of them the effort you put in to it.
Link Posted: 10/14/2019 7:34:39 PM EDT
That's a long winded way of saying "you're either gonna get married or break up".

If you go in expecting it to be "transient", it will be. If both people go in expecting it to be long-term and are willing to work at it, it'll work out.

Your definition of love seems to be more a matter of in the moment feelings. At a certain point love shifts from an in the moment feeling to an active choice that you've gotta consciously make.

Do that and you'll be happier in the long run and get laid more frequently, the data is pretty clear on both points.
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