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My $0.02 that no one asked for as a disinterested party: It seems to me that the seller likely used intentionally vague wording knowing that true HK people would know this is not genuine HK and interpret his Gunbroker ad that this was "for" an HK, even though the word "for" is conspicuously absent from his listing. Those who are looking for the genuine HK made case, but not a true HK aficionado (apparently, like the OP), would read the ad exactly as written which certainly does suggest it's made by HK(*). If he's selling so many high-dollar items on GB, StG, etc, why didn't he sell this specific one through the typical channels he uses to sell things? Don't real HK items sell for considerably more $$ (and faster without fees) if you list them on the HK boards, or StG? That's a rhetorical question, because yes, of course they do. The seller probably had an inkling (or maybe he flat-out knew) that this was not the real HK case and was banking on a Gunbroker bidder also not really knowing - and understanding that he couldn't advertise it where people could publicly post questions for others to see/respond to, as that would result in it being clearly identified as not genuine HK. Further, if there was an issue with the sale on Gunbroker, he didn't have to sully his reputation on the other sites he sells on, since his already somewhat tainted Gunbroker reputation would be the only thing at stake. If the seller bought it new as he states in the ad, he certainly should be able to provide more information on the provenance of the case. My guess is that the case itself (gun-related hardware excluded) was made by Hofbauer - and some company other than HK purchased those cases from Hofbauer, and used their own sourced gun-related parts to assemble these to work with the HK weapon systems. Bottom line is that OP should have done more due diligence before buying, as seller's phone number and email was clearly available in his ads and he invited questions prior to purchase, but anecdotal evidence from seller's actions (his questions on other sites about the case; StG, HKPro, etc) suggest that the seller likely knew that this case was not the authentic HK case and crafted his ad very deliberately to try to maximize his profit while retaining the ability to plead ignorance along the lines of "I told you what these other HK people told me". When you question the seller with all the links to his HKPro, StG posts about this, how can he possibly respond other than, "yeah, I had an idea it wasn't made/assembled by HK". You did your work after the fact and backed him into a corner where he has two options: ignore you and consider the sale done, or work with you to come to an amicable solution. *If I tell you that I am selling a vintage "Armalite Bolt Carrier Group", and when you buy it, the bolt itself is made by Bushmaster, the carrier is made by Armalite and the firing pin and other small parts being Colt manufactured, would you feel that you were deceived? After all, it does fit in an Armalite rifle, which is what I said, right? If you were buying it to just use it, you may not case - but if you were buying it because your 100% Armalite rifle needed an authentic Armalite BCG, you would probably feel deceived. One last comment @SFHC - seeing what you wrote here, it seems you have a vested interest in declaring the case "genuine HK" at any cost, because you have one. Though you continue to cherry-pick statements that are out of context, you still haven't acknowledged that there is an ARMS mount in this case. Are you suggesting that HK purchased and used ARMS mounts for these? View Quote |
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Quoted: It's not. And the biggest clue is when people start saying bullshit like 'oh, the seller didn't explicitly say "XYZ"', or that "this one piece was technically made in Germany, even if every other piece was sculpted from a turd pushed out in Somalia!". That's when you know you have liars makes excuses for other liars. When you get to the point where people are trying to point out how the seller, in a certain way, didn't completely lie about what they were trying to sell, you know you have slimy fucking shills for borderline (or just straight-up) criminals. View Quote |
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So, if you purchased a Colt 6920 from me, and I shipped it to you you would be happy?
Once you saw I took a Colt lower, and a Double Star AR15 to build your Colt. But it's a Colt lower! All the other parts don't matter. |
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Yep I had looked at it both ways, and being who this guy is and what he sells he defiantly scammed the OP. I was in doubt a bit at first, but now i am well versed in HK MP5 briefcases. Question is why he scammed him? He defiantly is gonna suffer a backlash for this. If it was a $200-300 part I might just chalk it up as a cheap lesson, but for the amount of cash involved it seems the seller was being deceptive in his description. Yea the case was made in Germany perhaps, but a copy of an actual German produced MP5 case. If I was selling it, I would make sure I listed it a a clone, just bad business IMO. Losing my good reputation selling isn't worth $3k. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I'd be angry like OP. Seller knew exactly what he was doing. I hope he loses some of his NFA buyers. Question is why he scammed him? He defiantly is gonna suffer a backlash for this. If it was a $200-300 part I might just chalk it up as a cheap lesson, but for the amount of cash involved it seems the seller was being deceptive in his description. Yea the case was made in Germany perhaps, but a copy of an actual German produced MP5 case. If I was selling it, I would make sure I listed it a a clone, just bad business IMO. Losing my good reputation selling isn't worth $3k. He also researched the fakes, which tells me a lot. One little sentence in the ad could have easily removed any doubt. I know why he didn't include it and you do too. |
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Can anyone find a single MP5K briefcase for sale anywhere?
Replica or not? |
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Yep, seller knowingly sold a replica. . View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Like new Hofbauer MP5K Briefcase made in German. I bought it new several years ago. Case has been used a few times but is in perfect shape. Comes with Keys and port plugs. No restrictions in owning this. Case is NOT AN AOW. While it doesn't state "replica" it also doesn't say its an HK produced item. And it IS a Hofbauer briefcase, made in Germany. And it fits an HK MP5K supposedly. Whether the seller purposely avoided using terms such as genuine, factory, original, authentic..... is probably due to him knowing that its none of those. This ad has several red flags that should give a buyer pause: 1. Last feedback as a seller was an "F" and several years ago. 2. About as short a description of a $3000 item you will ever see. 3. Inspection/return policy...…."Unspecified"? No effing way. To those that side with the seller, you should be ashamed. Understand the difference. It is definitely not as advertised and the seller was purposefully vague so he could attempt to weasel out of it if he was caught. I can't find where he ever posted a case like that on a forum for sale with a similar description. That's because he would get ripped apart. He also researched the fakes, which tells me a lot. One little sentence in the ad could have easily removed any doubt. I know why he didn't include it and you do too Sadly, the OP didn't do his research. |
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Sadly, the OP didn't do his research. View Quote If the buyer had to commit a dozen hours of research to make sure that the seller wasn't going to rob him, then the seller is a fucking criminal. And those that shill for the seller are also criminals. If the seller had a price on the item that reflected the actual price of the "replica" (scam) item, then the shills of the scammer might have a tiny bit of a point, but that is obviously not the case. The scamming fuck, that the OP has exposed, charged the price that would be reasonable for the real thing...that right there should a big indicator that there is a scam going on, but it's very revealing that the shills for the scammer pretend there's some sort of legit transaction occurring. |
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Of I was buying something that expensive that isnt a firearm. I would every bit of research I could before buying it.
Good luck, I dont know what the outcome will be. |
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So instead of basing the price on stuff from the beginning of 2013, I found one from the end of 2016 with the same ARMS mount and everything. With 2 days left on the auction the price was $3,225. So with what the OP paying $2,700, he paid more than $500 less than the last one to go on gunbroker.
https://www.guns.com/news/2016/12/05/hk-operational-briefcase-up-for-grabs-in-online-auction |
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"Sadly". Such bullshit. If the buyer had to commit a dozen hours of research to make sure that the seller wasn't going to rob him, then the seller is a fucking criminal. And those that shill for the seller are also criminals. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Sadly, the OP didn't do his research. If the buyer had to commit a dozen hours of research to make sure that the seller wasn't going to rob him, then the seller is a fucking criminal. And those that shill for the seller are also criminals. The OP got exactly what was pictured in the GunBroker listing. The OP assumed it to be a genuine, authentic, real deal, whoopie pie HK factory authorized briefcase because that's what he wanted. Whether through lack of research, lack of knowledge or simply not bothering to ask the seller "Hey, this is a real HK factory briefcase, isn't it?" That would have likely ended this drama before it ever started. But he didn't do that did he? OP wanted a genuine factory HK MP5K briefcase and got a "Like new Hofbauer MP5K Briefcase made in German." because THAT MY FRIEND IS THE DESCRIPTION. Reading is fundamental, wishing is not. If the seller had a price on the item that reflected the actual price of the "replica" (scam) item, then the shills of the scammer might have a tiny bit of a point, but that is obviously not the case. The scamming fuck, that the OP has exposed, charged the price that would be reasonable for the real thing...that right there should a big indicator that there is a scam going on, but it's very revealing that the shills for the scammer pretend there's some sort of legit transaction occurring. |
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I think it has been mentioned but if the seller were reputable and not a scammer then he shouldn’t have any issue with a refund. If it were genuine then the seller should have no issue taking it back. Says it all to me where the sellers intentions were.
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I think it has been mentioned but if the seller were reputable and not a scammer then he shouldn’t have any issue with a refund. If it were genuine then the seller should have no issue taking it back. Says it all to me where the sellers intentions were. View Quote Seller didn't have any, buyer didn't bother to ask. |
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I think it has been mentioned but if the seller were reputable and not a scammer then he shouldn’t have any issue with a refund. If it were genuine then the seller should have no issue taking it back. Says it all to me where the sellers intentions were. View Quote Feedback-return policy- homework... Also define genuine? It’s what was described and delivered. It’s not really a fake as the case is real, the use of the case is real, it just has some aftermarket mods. Shitshow all the way around and a little bit of homework would have been very useful. |
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And thats why you look at a sellers feedback, inspection and return/refund before buying. Seller didn't have any, buyer didn't bother to ask. View Quote |
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I'm not shilling for the seller and don't call me a criminal. I don't know him, and don't give a rats ass if the seller ever sells another item on GunBroker. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
I'm not shilling for the seller and don't call me a criminal. I don't know him, and don't give a rats ass if the seller ever sells another item on GunBroker. Everyone is responsible for their own self-defense, very true; that does not excuse those that would rob, lie to, and assault others of their own actions. So the pricing determines authenticity? That's laughable. Well, it wouldn't be for a non-scammer. |
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Shitshow all the way around and a little bit of homework would have been very useful. View Quote That is the crux of the debate. The seller intentionally tried to disguise the origin and value of the product in order to fleece extra money from the unaware. That's pretty straightforward. |
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I disagree that there is a scam.
OP got what was shown in the listing. He erroneously assumed that it was what he wanted...and it was not. You're literally pulling the rape-excuse of "she shouldn't have worn a short dress". Yes, the buyer could have pulled an outright Sherlock Holmes and, after dozens of hours of investigation, figured out that the seller was trying to rip him off. Why do you think that is part of a normal capitalistic transaction? Caveat Emptor indeed. In an honest society, that should be unnecessary. A seller can ask more than the market price and still be honest; it's not capitalist to lie by omission about a product. I'm not victim shaming. Just pointing out that the item in the GB listing is accurately described. That the OP wanted a factory HK MP5K briefcase is immaterial. Everyone is responsible for their own self-defense, very true; that does not excuse those that would rob, lie to, and assault others of their own actions. Where did I say that pricing determines authenticity? I inferred that the pricing is a clue that determines intent. If I have a reprint baseball card and try to sell it for the price of the original print, I'm very fucking obviously trying to scam someone. If I try to sell it for the rough price that the reprint is listed at, I'm obviously trying to participate in the legit market. Is that really something that is difficult to comprehend?
Well, it wouldn't be for a non-scammer. |
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See the auction I linked above.....scammer? View Quote The price is a good clue that it isn't a 'factory "H&K briefcase"' as it starts at $1500 and not $2700. Really man, do you not see that as indicator of intent?; that's an honest question, not an accusation - I'm not trying to attack you or call you a thief, but it's galling to see people defending this behavior. This is also far more honest a description than what the OP was ripped off by: "Briefcase is in very good condition and is marked made in Germany and Hofbauer D-82152 Planegg on the inside edge of the briefcase". "Marked made in Germany". Not "Like new Hofbauer MP5K Briefcase made in German". The listing that the Op was robbed by was very different and was designed to be misleading with juuuust enough "plausible deniability" to maybe survive a technical court challenge. Surviving a technical court challenge is not my standard of avoiding being a shithead criminal fuckwad. |
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Quoted: Extra homework would have been good for the buyer. However, that doesn't excuse the seller of being intentionally obtuse about the thing he was trying to sell for twice the value it actually has. That is the crux of the debate. The seller intentionally tried to disguise the origin and value of the product in order to fleece extra money from the unaware. That's pretty straightforward. View Quote The case in question was one of a bunch that came out of Kuwait.....they were 1600.00 in 2003 "larryccf1" on this website was one of the importers of these.......maybe someone should ask him ??? If I felt I got shafted out of three grand, I'd damn sure register at HKPro and ask the people who know about these things some questions...... |
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I'm not shilling for the seller and don't call me a criminal. I don't know him, and don't give a rats ass if the seller ever sells another item on GunBroker. The OP got exactly what was pictured in the GunBroker listing. The OP assumed it to be a genuine, authentic, real deal, whoopie pie HK factory authorized briefcase because that's what he wanted. Whether through lack of research, lack of knowledge or simply not bothering to ask the seller "Hey, this is a real HK factory briefcase, isn't it?" That would have likely ended this drama before it ever started. But he didn't do that did he? OP wanted a genuine factory HK MP5K briefcase and got a "Like new Hofbauer MP5K Briefcase made in German." because THAT MY FRIEND IS THE DESCRIPTION. Reading is fundamental, wishing is not. So the pricing determines authenticity? That's laughable. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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Sadly, the OP didn't do his research. If the buyer had to commit a dozen hours of research to make sure that the seller wasn't going to rob him, then the seller is a fucking criminal. And those that shill for the seller are also criminals. The OP got exactly what was pictured in the GunBroker listing. The OP assumed it to be a genuine, authentic, real deal, whoopie pie HK factory authorized briefcase because that's what he wanted. Whether through lack of research, lack of knowledge or simply not bothering to ask the seller "Hey, this is a real HK factory briefcase, isn't it?" That would have likely ended this drama before it ever started. But he didn't do that did he? OP wanted a genuine factory HK MP5K briefcase and got a "Like new Hofbauer MP5K Briefcase made in German." because THAT MY FRIEND IS THE DESCRIPTION. Reading is fundamental, wishing is not. If the seller had a price on the item that reflected the actual price of the "replica" (scam) item, then the shills of the scammer might have a tiny bit of a point, but that is obviously not the case. The scamming fuck, that the OP has exposed, charged the price that would be reasonable for the real thing...that right there should a big indicator that there is a scam going on, but it's very revealing that the shills for the scammer pretend there's some sort of legit transaction occurring. The seller ripped him off. |
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Appears to be the same as what the OP purchased.
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Seller scammed you. No question about it.
Give him about 5 seconds more to make it right and then do everything in your power to destroy what’s left of his reputation and business. If there’s any legal recourse, take that too. Would suck to have a felony conviction if your livelihood revolves around selling guns. |
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Borderline. The name of the auction is "Heckler & Koch MP5K / SP89 / SP5K Briefcase". Not "H&K blah blah compatible briefcase". View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Borderline. The name of the auction is "Heckler & Koch MP5K / SP89 / SP5K Briefcase". Not "H&K blah blah compatible briefcase". The item description is the description believe it or not. The price is a good clue that it isn't a 'factory "H&K briefcase"' as it starts at $1500 and not $2700. Really man, do you not see that as indicator of intent?; that's an honest question, not an accusation - I'm not trying to attack you or call you a thief, but it's galling to see people defending this behavior WTF does the price have to do with anything? Others have posted that the "replicas" sell for what the OP paid.....and if you take the time to look at page 4 of this thread you'll see where someone posted that the OP actually paid $2700 + $20 shipping. That's because the seller has the "Take a Shot" feature in his listing. Meaning a buyer can make an offer. That the cost of shipping a $3000 item is only $20 is hysterically funny. This is also far more honest a description than what the OP was ripped off by: "Briefcase is in very good condition and is marked made in Germany and Hofbauer D-82152 Planegg on the inside edge of the briefcase". "Marked made in Germany". Not "Like new Hofbauer MP5K Briefcase made in German". The OP's listing SHOWED THE EFFING "Made in Germany" right there in the listing photos! The listing that the Op was robbed by was very different and was designed to be misleading with juuuust enough "plausible deniability" to maybe survive a technical court challenge. Surviving a technical court challenge is not my standard of avoiding being a shithead criminal fuckwad. The other listing I posted: Briefcase is in very good condition and is marked made in Germany and Hofbauer D-82152 Planegg on the inside edge of the briefcase Note that NEITHER listing claims the briefcase is a genuine, authentic, original or factory HK item. The other listing I posted shows the seller's Inspection/ Return Policy AS IS - No refund or exchange So...…..if both are fakes they sold for: OP paid $2720 shipped The Other paid $2540 $180 difference. If both are replicas or fakes that seems to be ballpark numbers. |
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I remember when Special Weapons cobbled these together. They tracked down the same manufacturer that provided cases to HK and bought a very similar case, they then used what I think was an ARMS mount, produced the rest of the parts "in house" and tried to sell them as originals.
Took almost 24 hours for HKPro to out them as knockoffs. So the case itself was "Made in Germany" by the OEM manufacturer HK used, but everything else was basically a knock. The fact that the actual manufacturer was Special Weapons means they aren't worth anything just like everything else they sell. Not sure what Mikey G's sold back in the day, but they sold all kinds of stuff from good to bad if they thought it would sell. The problem is the actual cases from HK are rare as hell and almost impossible to get your hands on so people are willing to pay almost anything. Before there were other options people were paying like $1600 for Special Weapon cast receiver with Paki parts SW5s because preban 94s were going for twice that at the time. And if you have a $20k MP5k it might seem "whatever" to buy a Special Weapons copy for whatever reason. But it will have zero collector value. The other problem is while you are zipping around the internet asking "is this real" if it is genuine, rare and priced right somebody will snag it while you are asking about if the screws are authentic. And the same "kick em while they are down" Schadenfreude crew would be here saying "Hey...snooze you loose" and "Should have manned up and just gone for it" and that nonsense. But sadly many are correct about many things. 1. Gunbroker won't do anything. 2. The US postal service won't do anything. 3. It is unlikely your bank will do anything. 4. The wording on the listing (regardless of if the seller made an honest mistake or knew what he was doing) was accurate and vague enough to not qualify as fraud. If the seller is a stand up guy who is concerned about his reputation, he would have just told you to ship it back and he'd refund your money and then contact GB for a refund of the list fee or ask you to pay the list fee. But it sounds like you just have a new briefcase. Do the rest of the internet a huge favor and post lots and lots of pictures of what you have. That way nobody else makes the same mistake. |
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Quoted:blah blah View Quote Selling a real HK shooting case, say it. Selling a HK COMPATIBLE shooting case, FUCKING SAY IT. Don't fucking say "Like new Hofbauer MP5K Briefcase made in German" except it has multiple pieces not made by HK and not made in Germany and weren't certified by HK for the purpose they originally made the case for. Otherwise, the seller is a fucking liar and anyone exhibiting the same behavior in any fucking situation is also a fucking liar. How you think that this kind of deceptive practice is fine is mind-boggling. The seller made it seem like the thing he was selling was the real, HK-made, thing. It wasn't. You're defending that behavior. Why? |
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Quoted: Ok, nevermind. You're defending a scammer like you're related or you use the same scamming behavior. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Ok, nevermind. You're defending a scammer like you're related or you use the same scamming behavior. I simply pointed out that the listing the OP bought from was not inaccurate. And I wonder why you feel so defensive about the OP....are you related or do you typically have buyers remorse? (see how that works?) Lots of other people have pointed out the behavior that you seem to think is ok, but is actually POS behavior. The question becomes, why do you think this is acceptable? If you're selling something that isn't authentic and you know it isn't authentic, then you need to tell your potential customers. If you intentionally hide that info, then you are a literal piece of shit. A human turd. Don't like it? Then tell people what you're actually selling. Don't defend those that hide the details of their fake shit. Selling a real HK shooting case, say it.
Selling a HK COMPATIBLE shooting case, FUCKING SAY IT. Don't fucking say "Like new Hofbauer MP5K Briefcase made in German" except it has multiple pieces not made by HK and not made in Germany and weren't certified by HK for the purpose they originally made the case for. Otherwise, the seller is a fucking liar and anyone exhibiting the same behavior in any fucking situation is also a fucking liar. But yeah, the seller could have written a better description, taken 87 more closeup photos and done all the buyers research for him. But he didn't. It then falls on the buyer to be damn sure he wants what is shown in that listing. How you think that this kind of deceptive practice is fine is mind-boggling. The seller made it seem like the thing he was selling was the real, HK-made, thing. It wasn't. You're defending that behavior. Why? Again...……$180 difference in the selling price of those two auctions. If both are fakes would you not agree that IS the market price for a fake? Others in this thread have said so. Bottom line....no one tricked, scammed or forced the OP to make an offer on that briefcase. If the seller had not put ANYTHING in his description it would not have been a trick, scam or fraud. OP made the assumption that this was what he wanted and that was his mistake. It wasn't and now he's stuck. He's stuck because he bought something that wasn't what he thought it was and didn't bother asking about inspection or returns. That's dumb and sometimes dumb gets expensive. |
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So, OP certainly has some culpability in the matter, buyer beware and all that. Most of us would have done homework (lots of it), before dropping that kind of $$$. That said: 1.) Seller has been shown to clearly know the difference in the HK and non-authentic cases, proven by multiple links in OP 2.) Seller clearly was crafty with the wording in his GB listing. Look at his asking price, and ask yourself why? 3.) Seller has been a douche canoe to OP since getting the money, and is playing dumb Caveat emptor is strong, but since Seller did what he did, he can deal with scorched earth if OP decides to expose his scam IMHO. If I was Seller, I doubt I’d want my reputation tarnished. Clearly he is OK with it though, or he wouldn’t have posted the GB listing with the wording and price that he did. View Quote |
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What do the “authentic authentic” cases sell for?
If the “replicas” sell for what the OP paid what do the real ones sell for? |
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Not a HK expert but this seems to been the case, I think for $3k I would have asked many questions. The first question would be to confirm this was a authentic HK made case, second WTF makes it worth $3k And I would had to have some HK buddies check out the ad as I know very little about HKs. View Quote |
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Well, it's got Phillips head screws, but there is no brass deflector and the handle appears plastic? The shell says it's German, but where was the iron ore mined from that makes up the mount?
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I'm in the market for an MP5 operational briefcase, and I didn't buy that one because it was clearly made by Todd Bailey.
Unlike the OP, I've been reading about these cases for years while waiting for one to come along. I'd probably be happy to buy a Todd Bailey case, if it were 1/2 or 1/3 the price of a proper German case... but I know the difference before I bid. The seller wrote the add in a way that while technically accurate, would allow a buyer who had not done his homework to assume it was a real case. The seller is a douche, and the buyer is a fool. |
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What do the “authentic authentic” cases sell for? If the “replicas” sell for what the OP paid what do the real ones sell for? View Quote |
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The guy you bought this from is well known in NFA circles as a total whack job. Possibly bi-polar or manic depressive, whatever it's called nowadays. He has a lathe though, so he thinks he's hot stuff. Totally delusional.
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I'm in the market for an MP5 operational briefcase, and I didn't buy that one because it was clearly made by Todd Bailey. Unlike the OP, I've been reading about these cases for years while waiting for one to come along. I'd probably be happy to buy a Todd Bailey case, if it were 1/2 or 1/3 the price of a proper German case... but I know the difference before I bid. The seller wrote the add in a way that while technically accurate, would allow a buyer who had not done his homework to assume it was a real case. The seller is a douche, and the buyer is a fool. View Quote |
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There has been fluctuation over the years but typically they have sold for the same price. One seller was able to move an entire pallet at 3k a couple years ago. When they first came in after the gulf wars they were available in volume and sold for $1500 or so. There are multiple accounts of them found overseas new in sealed pallets with also new MP5s in them, which would seem to indicate this a factory item a second generation or improvement specified in the order. In one of the older threads a overseas HK employee said the cases (all of them) where not made by HK and hk didn't have spare parts or even a schematic. Also complicating the matter is MP5s have been made under license in two other countries, if the cases were done under license they are factory HK parts also. Some of the ones that Capital City sold years ago had ARMS mounts, the middle east supplier they came from took some of the mounts and they put ARMS in part of them, you could buy them either way for the same price. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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What do the “authentic authentic” cases sell for? If the “replicas” sell for what the OP paid what do the real ones sell for? |
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I had been screwed before on Gunbroker, by the time I realized it the guy was gone. First, I bought an 86 tula krink kit w/ barrel where the barrel ended up being a cutdown but misrepresented it as authentic Russian. Then I had my account shut down for calling out my purchase of a fake AK 102 kit as fake right after the auction was finished. Apparently too late.
I hate gunbroker... |
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Wrong. I'm not victim shaming. Just pointing out that the item in the GB listing is accurately described. That the OP wanted a factory HK MP5K briefcase is immaterial. View Quote The HK briefcase is entirely made in Germany. |
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I'm not shilling for the seller and don't call me a criminal. I don't know him, and don't give a rats ass if the seller ever sells another item on GunBroker. The OP got exactly what was pictured in the GunBroker listing. The OP assumed it to be a genuine, authentic, real deal, whoopie pie HK factory authorized briefcase because that's what he wanted. Whether through lack of research, lack of knowledge or simply not bothering to ask the seller "Hey, this is a real HK factory briefcase, isn't it?" That would have likely ended this drama before it ever started. But he didn't do that did he? OP wanted a genuine factory HK MP5K briefcase and got a "Like new Hofbauer MP5K Briefcase made in German." because THAT MY FRIEND IS THE DESCRIPTION. Reading is fundamental, wishing is not. View Quote If zenith made an MP5 clone with a German HK mp5 parts kit, and a US barrel, would you consider that to be an “HK MP5 made in Germany?” If not, how would it be any different? Some parts were made in Germany, but other parts that are integral to the functioning of the gun were made in the US, and then the gun assembled into its usable configuration in the US. Please explain. |
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@DogtownTom, I asked one of the other shills this on the last page, and he hasn’t yet bothered answering. If zenith made an MP5 clone with a German HK mp5 parts kit, and a US barrel, would you consider that to be an “HK MP5 made in Germany?” If not, how would it be any different? Some parts were made in Germany, but other parts that are integral to the functioning of the gun were made in the US, and then the gun assembled into its usable configuration in the US. Please explain. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
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I'm not shilling for the seller and don't call me a criminal. I don't know him, and don't give a rats ass if the seller ever sells another item on GunBroker. The OP got exactly what was pictured in the GunBroker listing. The OP assumed it to be a genuine, authentic, real deal, whoopie pie HK factory authorized briefcase because that's what he wanted. Whether through lack of research, lack of knowledge or simply not bothering to ask the seller "Hey, this is a real HK factory briefcase, isn't it?" That would have likely ended this drama before it ever started. But he didn't do that did he? OP wanted a genuine factory HK MP5K briefcase and got a "Like new Hofbauer MP5K Briefcase made in German." because THAT MY FRIEND IS THE DESCRIPTION. Reading is fundamental, wishing is not. If zenith made an MP5 clone with a German HK mp5 parts kit, and a US barrel, would you consider that to be an “HK MP5 made in Germany?” If not, how would it be any different? Some parts were made in Germany, but other parts that are integral to the functioning of the gun were made in the US, and then the gun assembled into its usable configuration in the US. Please explain. |
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Your analogies aren't really accurate.
Let me try an analogy: you call pizza hut and order a meat lovers pizza, you get a double pepperoni pizza. The pepperoni pizza isn't worth what they charged you for the meat lovers, after taking a bite of it you realize it's not what you wanted. The store won't give you a refund. They're both pizzas. They'll both fill you up. Some people don't mind double pepperoni. You're still mad because you now realize you REALLY wanted that meat lovers pizza. Your roommate offers to buy the pepperoni pizza for $10. You're only out a couple bucks. You post in GD and everyone hates pizza hut. You decide to shop at papa johns. Papa Johns $$$$$ |
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Dispute with GB.
I've ran across two ad's for counterfeit items on GB. Got to be careful. |
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Your analogies aren't really accurate. Let me try an analogy: you call pizza hut and order a meat lovers pizza, you get a double pepperoni pizza. The pepperoni pizza isn't worth what they charged you for the meat lovers, after taking a bite of it you realize it's not what you wanted. The store won't give you a refund. They're both pizzas. They'll both fill you up. Some people don't mind double pepperoni. You're still mad because you now realize you REALLY wanted that meat lovers pizza. Your roommate offers to buy the pepperoni pizza for $10. You're only out a couple bucks. You post in GD and everyone hates pizza hut. You decide to shop at papa johns. Papa Johns $$$$$ View Quote |
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Food is a weird analogy to use as some places will refund you and some places won't, mostly because food is a one time use thing. You typically cannot "re-sell" food that someone else has "returned". I've seen restaurants refund a 100% eaten meal and I've seen other places refuse a refund on untouched food that had incorrect toppings / pickles / etc.
The core point here is that if there was no intent to defraud or misrepresent an item, an "honest" seller would rather just refund the purchase amount minus shipping and fees (if necessary) and take the item back in order to re-sell it than risk the buyer going scorched earth on them with possible back charges or postal investigations. Instead we have a seller doing the old dodge dip duck dive and dodge. If the item was legitimately listed, and in no way misrepresented, and it was indeed a highly valuable collectible item commanding the price it was listed for, the seller should have no problem re-listing it and selling it to another buyer who is willing to pay the asking price for what is shown in the photos and description. But at the same time Gunbroker is just RIFE with fishing attempts. "Collectible" items with dubious descriptions and the bare minimum of photos listed for outrageous price points. Keeping it in house with the HK brand, just look at all the NDS police trade in P7's listed for P7M8 / M13 prices. I fully expect Gunbroker to side with the seller on this, and even so their "fraud" coverage is laughable. As the OP already stated they only cover $500 worth, with a hundred dollar deductible. And while we here have run all over the internet digging up all this additional info on these cases (shit, I bet we all could write a Forgotten Weapons episode with all this info), my guess is a Gunbroker "claims adjuster" will look at the photos, look at the description, hear that the item received matches the photos, and tell the OP "you bought what was shown" and find for the seller. |
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Your analogies aren't really accurate. Let me try an analogy: you call pizza hut and order a meat lovers pizza, you get a double pepperoni pizza. The pepperoni pizza isn't worth what they charged you for the meat lovers, after taking a bite of it you realize it's not what you wanted. The store won't give you a refund. They're both pizzas. They'll both fill you up. Some people don't mind double pepperoni. You're still mad because you now realize you REALLY wanted that meat lovers pizza. Your roommate offers to buy the pepperoni pizza for $10. You're only out a couple bucks. You post in GD and everyone hates pizza hut. You decide to shop at papa johns. Papa Johns $$$$$ View Quote |
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