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Posted: 5/11/2024 10:28:45 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Never_A_Wick: There is validity to the statement I just don’t think it applies to B class shooters for the most part. Too much spread between B and M/GM. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Never_A_Wick: Originally Posted By 03RN: And I'll eat that statement but it is something I've heard/read multiple places. There is validity to the statement I just don’t think it applies to B class shooters for the most part. Too much spread between B and M/GM. A B class guy who shoots all alphas doesn’t have a shooting deficiency, he has a stage planning and movement deficiency. Hell my ex wife was C class shooting a 1911 and never shot anything but alphas. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 10:29:36 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Never_A_Wick: There is validity to the statement I just don’t think it applies to B class shooters for the most part. Too much spread between B and M/GM. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Never_A_Wick: Originally Posted By 03RN: And I'll eat that statement but it is something I've heard/read multiple places. There is validity to the statement I just don’t think it applies to B class shooters for the most part. Too much spread between B and M/GM. I may just mis remember it. I think my point is that even in a match there's a lot more to winning than just split times. If I'm standing there doing bill drills my times will be measurably faster with a rds. If you factor in running over broken terrain managing your surroundings, etc than a 0.2 faster bill drill isn't indicative of anything meaningfull. Now if the performance difference was significant than I'd think different. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 10:30:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: hydrostatic_cling]
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StevenH: Revolvers are making a comeback Scream it loud, get a tattoo of it, buy a billboard, and pay for a superbowl commercial to say it. It does not make it true. Antiquated items for today, and specifically this thread which is about RDS for carry pistols. Discount eccentric contrarians from discussion and the only people serious about carry pistols are using semi-autos and they are wholly embracing red dot sights. Those not convinced at this point of the superiority of RDS pistol solutions over irons-only setups are people who cannot be convinced, and are not worth the time. Today's revolver shooter joining discussions are like someone going into a powerlifting gym to tell people about crossfit. Glad you and others enjoy it, but don't expect sympathy if you can't accept their status as obsolete. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 10:30:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Nick_Adams]
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StevenH: You would have the same results with a JFrame or a race gun inside of 7-yards in a robbery. Someone grabs you by the shirt collar at 7/11 and says give me your gun/car keys. Jframe in your jacket pocket that your hand is already holding beats the Stacatto [WITH SPENDY RDS MOUNTED] in your waistband. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StevenH: Originally Posted By 45-Seventy: Originally Posted By StevenH: It usually is for the non professional gun carrier. If you’re a cop or soldier paid to seek out confrontation then you have a different mission than someone simply trying to prevent being robbed or carjacked. And even at five to seven yards the performance differential between irons and optics is measurable. Add movement, stress, low/poor lighting or any other variable and that difference grows. You would have the same results with a JFrame or a race gun inside of 7-yards in a robbery. Someone grabs you by the shirt collar at 7/11 and says give me your gun/car keys. Jframe in your jacket pocket that your hand is already holding beats the Stacatto [WITH SPENDY RDS MOUNTED] in your waistband. Exactly. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 10:31:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Never_A_Wick]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StevenH: A B class guy who shoots all alphas doesn’t have a shooting deficiency, he has a stage planning and movement deficiency. Hell my ex wife was C class shooting a 1911 and never shot anything but alphas. Guys who shoot all alphas never finish anywhere but the bottom 1/3 of the field. They have a lot more than a planning and movement deficiency. They’re also slow AF. ETA I have the opposite problem. My raw time is fast, my hits need work. Personally I’d rather be fast with poor hit percentage than shoot all alphas and be slow. The former is easier to fix. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 10:32:13 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StevenH: You would have the same results with a JFrame or a race gun inside of 7-yards in a robbery. Someone grabs you by the shirt collar at 7/11 and says give me your gun/car keys. Jframe in your jacket pocket that your hand is already holding beats the Stacatto in your waistband. No, I would not. I also don’t pocket carry because I have at least average intelligence. |
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WY, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 10:32:37 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Lots of people waiting around https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/433221/7b17e119-8bfc-405a-bed0-cb2dddfab545-1_a-3212128.JPG Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By hydrostatic_cling: I think collectively everyone else is waiting for the guy with a revolver to finish his Lots of people waiting around https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/433221/7b17e119-8bfc-405a-bed0-cb2dddfab545-1_a-3212128.JPG I shoot GM in Steel Challenge with an iron sight lever gun in PCCO. Stages are different. I'm on the RDS train, I just don't feel like I'm at some serious disadvantage with irons. Being good with irons is no reason to poopoo RDS. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 10:33:31 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: I may just mis remember it. I think my point is that even in a match there's a lot more to winning than just split times. If I'm standing there doing bill drills my times will be measurably faster with a rds. If you factor in running over broken terrain managing your surroundings, etc than a 0.2 faster bill drill isn't indicative of anything meaningfull. Now if the performance difference was significant than I'd think different. Absolutely right. Splits don’t win matches. Transitions do. They might get you a stage win occasionally on a stand and shoot. Most matches are a mixture of stage types, so the “splits get chicks” crowd won’t be taking the overall win home. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 10:34:33 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lawless_Flogic: I shoot GM in Steel Challenge with an iron sight lever gun in PCCO. Stages are different. I'm on the RDS train, I just don't feel like I'm at some serious disadvantage with irons. Being good with irons is no reason to poopoo RDS. There’s so much what-the-fuck in this statement I don’t know where to start. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 10:34:54 PM EDT
[#10]
The RDS zealots are like listening to crossfitters or ketards. Just shut the fuck up already and do what suits you. It isn’t a religion you have to preach. No one gives a shit.
I have hand guns with RDS I have been using for well over a decade. Before they were a thing I was shooting USPSA in Limited and Production and became very proficient with iron sights. I do both. I have carry guns with and without RDS depending on how I feel that day. I can tear up a stage with an RDS equipped gun, but I can do the same with irons so I really don’t feel disadvantaged when I carry without. Options are great and I enjoy being able to use both on my handguns and long arms. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 10:35:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hydrostatic_cling: Scream it loud, get a tattoo of it, buy a billboard, and pay for a superbowl commercial to say it. It does not make it true. Antiquated items for today, and specifically this thread which is about RDS for carry pistols. Discount eccentric contrarians from discussion and the only people serious about carry pistols are using semi-autos and they are wholly embracing red dot sights. Those not convinced at this point of the superiority of RDS pistol solutions over irons-only setups are people who cannot be convinced, and are not worth the time. Today's revolver shooter joining discussions are like someone going into a powerlifting gym to tell people about crossfit. Glad you and others enjoy it, but don't expect sympathy if you can't accept their status as obsolete. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hydrostatic_cling: Originally Posted By StevenH: Revolvers are making a comeback Scream it loud, get a tattoo of it, buy a billboard, and pay for a superbowl commercial to say it. It does not make it true. Antiquated items for today, and specifically this thread which is about RDS for carry pistols. Discount eccentric contrarians from discussion and the only people serious about carry pistols are using semi-autos and they are wholly embracing red dot sights. Those not convinced at this point of the superiority of RDS pistol solutions over irons-only setups are people who cannot be convinced, and are not worth the time. Today's revolver shooter joining discussions are like someone going into a powerlifting gym to tell people about crossfit. Glad you and others enjoy it, but don't expect sympathy if you can't accept their status as obsolete. You sound like one of the guys shooting with a semi with a rds that I beat with an iron sighted revolver.  Attached FileI haven't used that one for a while 
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Posted: 5/11/2024 10:36:00 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: No, I would not. I also don’t pocket carry because I have at least average intelligence. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: Originally Posted By StevenH: You would have the same results with a JFrame or a race gun inside of 7-yards in a robbery. Someone grabs you by the shirt collar at 7/11 and says give me your gun/car keys. Jframe in your jacket pocket that your hand is already holding beats the Stacatto in your waistband. No, I would not. I also don’t pocket carry because I have at least average intelligence. How do you conceal carry in winter clothing? I have my normal carry gun in my normal holster. But it’s not really accessible in a winter parka. So a Jframe or similar revolver goes in the pocket of the outermost garment |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 10:36:50 PM EDT
[#13]
The RDS deniers have some doozies in this thread.
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Posted: 5/11/2024 10:37:44 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lawless_Flogic: I shoot GM in Steel Challenge with an iron sight lever gun in PCCO. Stages are different. I'm on the RDS train, I just don't feel like I'm at some serious disadvantage with irons. Being good with irons is no reason to poopoo RDS. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lawless_Flogic: Originally Posted By 03RN: Originally Posted By hydrostatic_cling: I think collectively everyone else is waiting for the guy with a revolver to finish his Lots of people waiting around https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/433221/7b17e119-8bfc-405a-bed0-cb2dddfab545-1_a-3212128.JPG I shoot GM in Steel Challenge with an iron sight lever gun in PCCO. Stages are different. I'm on the RDS train, I just don't feel like I'm at some serious disadvantage with irons. Being good with irons is no reason to poopoo RDS. Can you find where I've poopooed rds? |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 10:39:02 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: You sound like one of the guys shooting with a semi with a rds that I beat with an iron sighted revolver. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/433221/original_1ecb95c1-19db-42b9-a2bd-ed635df-3212135.JPG I haven't used that one for a while I have seen your videos…. You shoot well, and seem to be quite proficient with a revolver too…. but let’s be honest, if you beat a semi-auto equipped with an RDS at a match with your revolver, the other shooter sucked pretty bad 
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Posted: 5/11/2024 10:39:41 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StevenH: How do you conceal carry in winter clothing? I have my normal carry gun in my normal holster. But it’s not really accessible in a winter parka. So a Jframe or similar revolver goes in the pocket of the outermost garment Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StevenH: Originally Posted By 45-Seventy: Originally Posted By StevenH: You would have the same results with a JFrame or a race gun inside of 7-yards in a robbery. Someone grabs you by the shirt collar at 7/11 and says give me your gun/car keys. Jframe in your jacket pocket that your hand is already holding beats the Stacatto in your waistband. No, I would not. I also don’t pocket carry because I have at least average intelligence. How do you conceal carry in winter clothing? I have my normal carry gun in my normal holster. But it’s not really accessible in a winter parka. So a Jframe or similar revolver goes in the pocket of the outermost garment Same way I clear a hoody or flannel shirt |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 10:41:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: hydrostatic_cling]
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: You sound like one of the guys shooting with a semi with a rds that I beat with an iron sighted revolver. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/433221/original_1ecb95c1-19db-42b9-a2bd-ed635df-3212135.JPG I haven't used that one for a while The only way you're beating a good pistol shooter is if the scorer has a TBI and drops an entire digit from your el pres time. |
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WY, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 10:43:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Lawless_Flogic]
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: There’s so much what-the-fuck in this statement I don’t know where to start. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: Originally Posted By Lawless_Flogic: I shoot GM in Steel Challenge with an iron sight lever gun in PCCO. Stages are different. I'm on the RDS train, I just don't feel like I'm at some serious disadvantage with irons. Being good with irons is no reason to poopoo RDS. There’s so much what-the-fuck in this statement I don’t know where to start. Go check the rules and ask why .38 Special was added for PCC in SC. Somewhere around 72 when people started complaining and I had to have my Area rep step up to get .38 added to the PCC cartridge list. Got down to around 68, but Kenny still makes me look like a little bitch. ETA: in case this is your hang up, rules say may, not must use optics. I shoot PCCO and PCCI with the same rifle. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 10:43:42 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Never_A_Wick: I have seen your videos…. You shoot well, and seem to be quite proficient with a revolver too…. but let’s be honest, if you beat a semi-auto equipped with an RDS at a match with your revolver, the other shooter sucked pretty bad Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Never_A_Wick: Originally Posted By 03RN: You sound like one of the guys shooting with a semi with a rds that I beat with an iron sighted revolver. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/433221/original_1ecb95c1-19db-42b9-a2bd-ed635df-3212135.JPG I haven't used that one for a while I have seen your videos…. You shoot well, and seem to be quite proficient with a revolver too…. but let’s be honest, if you beat a semi-auto equipped with an RDS at a match with your revolver, the other shooter sucked pretty bad I don't really disagree. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 10:47:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Never_A_Wick]
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: I don't really disagree. I like your honesty Really if I had the money laying around to get a no-shit 9mm revolver worked over and race ready so I could get decent with it and smoke a bunch of fudds at a USPSA or especially an ICORE match…. I’d do it. But it’s kind of like single stack. I bought a whole setup, gun, belt, mags, etc etc, and haven’t shot it at a single match yet 
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Posted: 5/11/2024 10:52:18 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hydrostatic_cling: The only way you're beating a good pistol shooter is if the scorer has a TBI and drops an entire digit from your el pres time. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hydrostatic_cling: Originally Posted By 03RN: You sound like one of the guys shooting with a semi with a rds that I beat with an iron sighted revolver. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/433221/original_1ecb95c1-19db-42b9-a2bd-ed635df-3212135.JPG I haven't used that one for a while The only way you're beating a good pistol shooter is if the scorer has a TBI and drops an entire digit from your el pres time. Actually, an El presidente is where I'll place as well as good auto guys. I'm really not giving up much time with moonclips if any. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 10:54:57 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Never_A_Wick: I like your honesty Really if I had the money laying around to get a no-shit 9mm revolver worked over and race ready so I could get decent with it and smoke a bunch of fudds at a USPSA or especially an ICORE match…. I’d do it. But it’s kind of like single stack. I bought a whole setup, gun, belt, mags, etc etc, and haven’t shot it at a single match yet Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Never_A_Wick: Originally Posted By 03RN: I don't really disagree. I like your honesty Really if I had the money laying around to get a no-shit 9mm revolver worked over and race ready so I could get decent with it and smoke a bunch of fudds at a USPSA or especially an ICORE match…. I’d do it. But it’s kind of like single stack. I bought a whole setup, gun, belt, mags, etc etc, and haven’t shot it at a single match yet I'm honest because I post a lot of videos to back up what I claim. Fwiw during the last arfcom pistol challenge I used an iron sighted .357 mag to tie for 1st. Beating a lot of other good shooters with mrds so I do have my days. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 10:57:00 PM EDT
[#23]
I’m all on board the RDS train, but after seeing several posters claiming the data backs up their advantages, I would be interested in seeing it.
Post the science. |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 10:59:01 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Actually, an El presidente is where I'll place as well as good auto guys. I'm really not giving up much time with moonclips if any. Thanks for a good laugh. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 11:04:19 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Krombompulos_Michael: The RDS zealots are like listening to crossfitters or ketards. Just shut the fuck up already and do what suits you. It isn’t a religion you have to preach. No one gives a shit. I have hand guns with RDS I have been using for well over a decade. Before they were a thing I was shooting USPSA in Limited and Production and became very proficient with iron sights. I do both. I have carry guns with and without RDS depending on how I feel that day. I can tear up a stage with an RDS equipped gun, but I can do the same with irons so I really don’t feel disadvantaged when I carry without. Options are great and I enjoy being able to use both on my handguns and long arms. I only pipe up when the Fudd Lords spew their typical BS. They're "just as good", can't answer training questions, they know exactly how their gunfight is going to go and the exact distance... blah blah. I don't give a shit what people carry, or how they carry. 87% of this board are squared away pocket carrying gunslingers! |
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MS, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 11:08:27 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: No, I would not. I also don’t pocket carry because I have at least average intelligence. Would it be rude to ask if you have ever been in a real gunfight? |
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TN, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 11:10:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: PeterPangenderPhD]
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Never_A_Wick: After a certain level I agree. I can shoot right there with M and some GM shooters on stand and shoot stages. At those, I am pretty damn fast. Stages involving movement I do not do as well at. Mainly it’s an issue with my hits. Generally my overall time is top 3 but maybe not my overall placing because I’ve got 30% Charlies  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Never_A_Wick: Originally Posted By StevenH: Stage management and movement between shooting boxes often trumps actual marksmanship After a certain level I agree. I can shoot right there with M and some GM shooters on stand and shoot stages. At those, I am pretty damn fast. Stages involving movement I do not do as well at. Mainly it’s an issue with my hits. Generally my overall time is top 3 but maybe not my overall placing because I’ve got 30% Charlies My symphonies are right on par with Beethoven, except for the parts with piano. Also parts with strings. But I can hit the keys just as fast. But pretty much almost the same except for how it sounds. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 11:13:20 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Lawless_Flogic: Go check the rules and ask why .38 Special was added for PCC in SC. Somewhere around 72 when people started complaining and I had to have my Area rep step up to get .38 added to the PCC cartridge list. Got down to around 68, but Kenny still makes me look like a little bitch. ETA: in case this is your hang up, rules say may, not must use optics. I shoot PCCO and PCCI with the same rifle. I suppose there’s no video of you ripping some sub-two second strings with your iron sighted lever gun, though. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 11:14:39 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SW-14: I’m all on board the RDS train, but after seeing several posters claiming the data backs up their advantages, I would be interested in seeing it. Post the science. Start here. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 11:15:24 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ExFed1811: Would it be rude to ask if you have ever been in a real gunfight? Nope, and yes. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 11:20:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Missilegeek]
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By SW-14: I’m all on board the RDS train, but after seeing several posters claiming the data backs up their advantages, I would be interested in seeing it. Post the science. https://www.sagedynamics.org/ Download the RDS whitepaper from the homepage. Edit beat badly |
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MS, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 11:24:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: ExFed1811]
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: Nope, and yes. Because, I will freely admit that I have only been in two. I had iron sights both times and I'm still here. So you had electronic sights on your pistol when it happened to you? |
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WY, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 11:24:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Lawless_Flogic]
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: I suppose there’s no video of you ripping some sub-two second strings with your iron sighted lever gun, though. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: Originally Posted By Lawless_Flogic: Go check the rules and ask why .38 Special was added for PCC in SC. Somewhere around 72 when people started complaining and I had to have my Area rep step up to get .38 added to the PCC cartridge list. Got down to around 68, but Kenny still makes me look like a little bitch. ETA: in case this is your hang up, rules say may, not must use optics. I shoot PCCO and PCCI with the same rifle. I suppose there’s no video of you ripping some sub-two second strings with your iron sighted lever gun, though. There are, but I don't Facebook. If you know Kenny, you can ask him yourself. ETA: hit up Kurt at Area 2 and ask him. Lol. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 11:25:18 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DavidY: Does that have a loaded chamber indicator on the top? Could it be that causing the issue? That's what's causing it, but it's not an issue. I train with the red dot lens obscured, so carbon on the lens doesn't affect me. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 11:34:00 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 03RN]
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hydrostatic_cling: Thanks for a good laugh. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By hydrostatic_cling: Originally Posted By 03RN: Actually, an El presidente is where I'll place as well as good auto guys. I'm really not giving up much time with moonclips if any. Thanks for a good laugh. Really just showing your ignorance on this one Came in 2nd on this stage. Towards the end you'll see me reload, shoot 2, then reload before changes sides on the barricade due to a mandatory reload there. Even with that extra reload I cam in 2nd.  Bear camp 6/11 stage 4 |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 11:35:01 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: Originally Posted By SW-14: I’m all on board the RDS train, but after seeing several posters claiming the data backs up their advantages, I would be interested in seeing it. Post the science. Start here. Awesome, thank you. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 11:38:25 PM EDT
[#37]
All we need is the bacon fat guy to show up and we can mark our bimonthly pistol RDS thread off of the checklist.
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WY, USA
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Posted: 5/11/2024 11:44:21 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: There’s so much what-the-fuck in this statement I don’t know where to start. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 45-Seventy: Originally Posted By Lawless_Flogic: I shoot GM in Steel Challenge with an iron sight lever gun in PCCO. Stages are different. I'm on the RDS train, I just don't feel like I'm at some serious disadvantage with irons. Being good with irons is no reason to poopoo RDS. There’s so much what-the-fuck in this statement I don’t know where to start. @45-Seventy Point is, stage design is a thing when you talk about rankings and relative value of equipment. If you have five targets at pistol distance, a lever action is quite suitable for the game. It is not superior, inherently, to the obviously better alternatives. It's fuckin weird to have to present my bona fides as an iron sight shooter to defend RDS. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 11:47:17 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Krombompulos_Michael: The RDS zealots are like listening to crossfitters or ketards. Just shut the fuck up already and do what suits you. It isn’t a religion you have to preach. No one gives a shit. I have hand guns with RDS I have been using for well over a decade. Before they were a thing I was shooting USPSA in Limited and Production and became very proficient with iron sights. I do both. I have carry guns with and without RDS depending on how I feel that day. I can tear up a stage with an RDS equipped gun, but I can do the same with irons so I really don’t feel disadvantaged when I carry without. Options are great and I enjoy being able to use both on my handguns and long arms. OP gives a shit. He specifically asked for this discussion to be rehashed, again. Then there are other people asking questions and getting answers. If it makes you angry, maybe don't partake? I hate crossfitters as much as the next guy... But I don't go into threads about crossfitting and talk shit about their gay pullups or whatever and tell them that no one gives a shit about it. That would be weird. |
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Posted: 5/11/2024 11:57:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Never_A_Wick]
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 03RN: Actually, an El presidente is where I'll place as well as good auto guys. I'm really not giving up much time with moonclips if any. I stop-watched your reload at the beginning of your video and it was around 3.5 seconds from shot 6 to shot 7. You are giving up a shit load of time compared to a good semi auto shooter who can reload well. No, most of us are not Ben Stoeger but this is a reload that I think is less than a second.  Ben Stoeger 3.87s El Presidente I don't practice reloads like I should. Dry on the timer I can get one off in a second. At a match I usually see 1.6-1.8, which is too fucking slow. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 12:17:14 AM EDT
[#41]
I have a Glock 19 with rds I carry in my left hand and a sig p360 without sights carry on my right hip. I figure I'm right eye dominant so in a gunfight I'll need the rds for the gun in my left hand. I just point and shoot with the right hand.
This way I'm covered for multiple ranges too. Long range I shoot with my left hand and right hand is for when they're up closer. Been in several simulated gunfights and this is what works best for me |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 12:25:24 AM EDT
[#42]
Iykyk, iydkydk... awesome for competition, awesome for barbieland.
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PA, USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 12:55:32 AM EDT
[#43]
I have a RDS on my carry and shoot better with it. I don't have astigmatism, it cowitnesses, doesn't need a plate, doesn't fog up, doesn't get any blowback on the lense, hasn't come loose, hasn't randomly turned off. Did I miss anything?
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Posted: 5/12/2024 12:59:48 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By StevenH: A B class guy who shoots all alphas doesn’t have a shooting deficiency, he has a stage planning and movement deficiency. Hell my ex wife was C class shooting a 1911 and never shot anything but alphas. Why yall yammering on about stage management in a thread about rds on carry pistols? Steel and cardboard aint bad guys. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 1:12:19 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Never_A_Wick: I stop-watched your reload at the beginning of your video and it was around 3.5 seconds from shot 6 to shot 7. You are giving up a shit load of time compared to a good semi auto shooter who can reload well. No, most of us are not Ben Stoeger but this is a reload that I think is less than a second.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RD_Hqt2Z-AI don't practice reloads like I should. Dry on the timer I can get one off in a second. At a match I usually see 1.6-1.8, which is too fucking slow. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Never_A_Wick: Originally Posted By 03RN: Actually, an El presidente is where I'll place as well as good auto guys. I'm really not giving up much time with moonclips if any. I stop-watched your reload at the beginning of your video and it was around 3.5 seconds from shot 6 to shot 7. You are giving up a shit load of time compared to a good semi auto shooter who can reload well. No, most of us are not Ben Stoeger but this is a reload that I think is less than a second. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RD_Hqt2Z-AI don't practice reloads like I should. Dry on the timer I can get one off in a second. At a match I usually see 1.6-1.8, which is too fucking slow. To be fair I think you should also post a video of Jerry shooting an El prez if your posting videos of Stoeger. That was also my second match ever using moon clips. When I'm just working on reloads now I can get down to 2.5 sec shot to shot with a reload. |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 1:16:37 AM EDT
[#46]
Just more baggage
Iron sights are fine |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 1:25:12 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By madcap3k: I have a Glock 19 with rds I carry in my left hand and a sig p360 without sights carry on my right hip. I figure I'm right eye dominant so in a gunfight I'll need the rds for the gun in my left hand. I just point and shoot with the right hand. This way I'm covered for multiple ranges too. Long range I shoot with my left hand and right hand is for when they're up closer. Been in several simulated gunfights and this is what works best for me Is your name Trevor?  A Pimento Sandwich | Pimento | Better Call Saul |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 2:21:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: lazyengineer]
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JamesJones: Red dot is better for new users than irons old guys if just shooting for the first time in my experience. At distance RDS is far superior. Training is superior to both I need to train RDS more  Not really my observation. RDS works well for those who practice and train. And for novice shooters in the comfort of the range. Novice shooters who don't practice often (i.e. most gun owners) Will raise a RDS, it won't be aligned on target, and they'll get an empty window and no idea where the gun is pointing, since no dot, since gun not already mostly on target. I also got sweeped quite nicely by a novice shooter who's RDS was covered in lint, so she of course needs to wipe that off so she can see *Gah! Dude you just swept the whole range with a loaded pistol!!* RDS are an extra layer of complexity that intermediate level shooters (i.e. users on gun forums who shoot a lot), benefit from. And new shooters at a nice comfortable range with all day at whatever pace they like and no stress, can shoot. IMHO, they are oversold as the item for everyone, when really, most shooters don't actually practice shooting. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/12/2024 2:59:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Cajunkraut]
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JBecker_72: When it comes to equipment use, I'll take a GM's opinion over LE any day. Most of you guys aren't even putting hobbyist levels of rounds down range. A few trainings, quals, and then it's Inshallah. Fair enough. Were you as skeptical about the Bureau's opinion that 9mm is the optimal duty and CCW pistol caliber? |
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Posted: 5/12/2024 3:31:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Missilegeek]
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cajunkraut: Fair enough. Were you as skeptical about the Bureau's opinion that 9mm is the optimal duty and CCW pistol caliber? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Cajunkraut: Originally Posted By JBecker_72: When it comes to equipment use, I'll take a GM's opinion over LE any day. Most of you guys aren't even putting hobbyist levels of rounds down range. A few trainings, quals, and then it's Inshallah. Fair enough. Were you as skeptical about the Bureau's opinion that 9mm is the optimal duty and CCW pistol caliber? Yes. The FBI does 2 things well 1. Lie 2. Be incompetent The FBI lab is a known and well documented purveyor of junk science. That includes: bite analysis, hair analysis, track (both shoe and tire) analysis, and brass casing analysis that is all junk science. The FBI lab is responsible for a ton of false convictions in recent history. https://www.science.org/content/article/reversing-legacy-junk-science-courtroom |
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