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Posted: 5/21/2022 2:44:39 PM EDT
[#1]
I'm going with irons, but training is the real difference
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Posted: 5/21/2022 2:45:04 PM EDT
[#2]
FP
NI |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 2:45:54 PM EDT
[#3]
Quoted: How about speed inside 7-10 yards, which is quicker dot or iron sights? Point shooting. |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 2:47:13 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Point shooting. We are talking about hitting, not just shooting. |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 2:47:22 PM EDT
[#5]
It's irrelevant
Eta ... first post nailed it. Its training and practice |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 2:49:47 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's irrelevant Yup You should be able to close your eyes, draw, and be on target with the same sight picture, regardless of whether you're using dots or irons. |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 2:50:30 PM EDT
[#7]
The only difference I have noticed is with multiple targets. I'm a lot faster with a dot on multiples.
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Posted: 5/21/2022 2:51:18 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Point shooting. My standard is keeping shots at speed on a 6" circle, not just anywhere inside the silhouette. I have to use sights to do that at 7-10 yards. |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 2:53:57 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We are talking about hitting, not just shooting. Yea, I updated the OP to be more specific. |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 2:54:00 PM EDT
[#10]
A to that distance a flash sight picture (point shooting) is fine.
But the answer is training. If training is equal the answer is dot |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 2:55:48 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm going with irons, but training is the real difference |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 2:56:32 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only difference I have noticed is with multiple targets. I'm a lot faster with a dot on multiples. This. I'm faster and more accurate on 6" steel plates at 10 yds with a dot. Better yet with a circle around the dot. |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 2:56:59 PM EDT
[#13]
Muscle memory.
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Posted: 5/21/2022 2:58:49 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted: The only difference I have noticed is with multiple targets. I'm a lot faster with a dot on multiples. Quoted: This. I'm faster and more accurate on 6" steel plates at 10 yds with a dot. Better yet with a circle around the dot. These are relevant. |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 2:59:03 PM EDT
[#15]
Red Dots have a little bit of training to raise them and find the red dot. It is more difficult than it sounds. Sometimes you will go past it where you don't see it and it is off to the left or right.
I think if I were you iron or point shooting would be better for a while. If you can train some Red Dot would be better around 10 yards but I think I just might shoot center mass as fast as possible. Does your pistol point really naturally for you? If so maybe Red Dot. Can you borrow one or go shooting with someone that has one on the same pistol? |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 2:59:30 PM EDT
[#16]
Vision has a lot to do with it.
Visual acuity and skill in using that vision... |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 3:01:04 PM EDT
[#17]
RDS if you are going to line up the front and rear iron sight. If you just use the front sight might be good as.
ETA: assuming good daylight conditions. |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 3:01:44 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Muscle memory. I've been shooting handguns 30+ years. I'm not a competitor or John Wick but I don't suck either; fair generalization that I can keep 3-4 rounds a second on a 6"circle at 7 yards or so with Glock 17 and fixed sights. |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 3:03:28 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Vision has a lot to do with it. Visual acuity and skill in using that vision... I'm nearsighted, wear glasses for driving; those glasses tend to fuzz my front sight. |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 3:04:01 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: RDS if you are going to line up the front and rear iron sight. If you just use the front sight might be good as. ETA: assuming good daylight conditions. Front sight, front sight, front sight |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 3:05:10 PM EDT
[#21]
My GUESS is a dot would be ever so slightly slower only because I suspect we'd try to be a bit more accurate with a dot as opposed to being "close enough!" with irons.
But training training would close that gap to negligible differences I imagine. |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 3:06:29 PM EDT
[#22]
Whichever you have more experience with
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Posted: 5/21/2022 3:07:31 PM EDT
[#23]
OP, have you ever tried shooting at a target 30 feet away with both?
 I'll let you in on a secret: sig triggers (or maybe the plastic pistol guys have came up with something equal now?) + RDS is like auto aim in old FPS games. It's retardedly easy  seriously, you've gotta try it |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 3:07:55 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A to that distance a flash sight picture (point shooting) is fine. But the answer is training. If training is equal the answer is dot Flash sight picture is not point shooting. |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 3:09:37 PM EDT
[#25]
It depends on how much practice you have with a dot and that model of pistol. IME if you change grip angle, etc. the dot can be a bit slower to pick up, it’s less forgiving to a bad presentation. Some reticle are better than others for this, the Vulcan reticle in the Primary Arms Holosuns has a large circle that helps rectify this and gives instant feedback to a bad presentation, much like irons. On just a dot reticle the dot may be completely out of the window, unlike irons there is no quick reference like the front sight, BUIS help but aren’t as fast to pick up with the MRDS in the way.
Practice alleviates this, but if switching from a VP9 to a Glock, for instance, there can be a bit of a learning curve. Use the same or similar pistols and it’s more of a non issue. VP9 to P320 to 2011 and I don’t notice it. The dot really shines on multiple targets, distance accuracy and target focus. It also make sight radius a nonissue. If you practice with a dot like you should be irons, it’s not an issue. Just pick up a dot for the first time and there is a learning curve. |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 3:10:17 PM EDT
[#26]
All other things being equal an RDS will always be faster.
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Posted: 5/21/2022 3:11:37 PM EDT
[#27]
You should just try both for a few months and put yourself on a timer. Find out what works best for you. I'm using a rmr mostly now.
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Posted: 5/21/2022 3:12:14 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm nearsighted, wear glasses for driving; those glasses tend to fuzz my front sight. I’m in bifocals. I’m way better with the dot if I’m not wearing my glasses then I am with irons. Slightly better seeing the dot then then the front sight with glasses. Part if that is I’m not focused on the dot, I’m focused on the target. |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 3:14:51 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We are talking about hitting, not just shooting. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Point shooting. We are talking about hitting, not just shooting. |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 3:15:42 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These are relevant. As a side note: My first 30 years of handgun shooting was target style, Bullseye or Metallic Silhouette. Breaking the perfect sight picture came very hard for me, as did slapping (semi joking) at the trigger. The red dot got my focus off the sights and on the target. Slow fire, I'm still more accurate with irons. Rapid fire multiple targets, I'm faster with a dot. |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 3:16:58 PM EDT
[#31]
Point shooting....
Why is it bad? Targets 5 to 6 feet away... Start shooting when barrel clears stomach.... |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 3:17:16 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In a class I trained in that focused partially on point shooting we were continuously hitting shotgun shells against a berm from about 10 yards. Instinctively pointing is quicker then any other possible form of aiming. Not as accurate but I feel like with a small amount in training most would be confident in using it. That's true with shotguns...not so much on pistols But agree with the sentiment that simply shooting your guns, trumps most technical advantages in terms of accuracy. |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 3:18:24 PM EDT
[#33]
With proper presentation and consistent fundamentals, a red dot is going to be both faster and more accurate for a given person.
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Posted: 5/21/2022 3:29:29 PM EDT
[#34]
Red dot
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Posted: 5/21/2022 3:37:17 PM EDT
[#35]
Sites at that distance are just to confirm not get a hard sight picture. Natural point of aim is king in that range. That being said red dot is faster. Ask yourself which is easier to see and confirm a glowing red dot that is or is not on target or 2 small pieces of iron that you have to confirm that it’s lined up.
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Posted: 5/21/2022 3:39:02 PM EDT
[#36]
If I have no time to aim, I will rely on point shooting as I gain enough time to find my sight picture.
For me, it's easier with a red dot and it's not even close. |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 3:43:43 PM EDT
[#37]
Bought a Glock 17 MOS and put a red dot on it. Hated it at first.
Practice , muscle memory and a new set of sights before I got it down. Put a set of raised night sights on and got the co witness correct. I like the red dot a lot more now, but still have a great iron sight picture. |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 3:55:14 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Point shooting. Yep. That's why I have carried the same two guns for 20+ years. I've never tried, but I'm pretty sure I could keep a 6" group at 10 yards just by feel (or as someone else said, muscle memory). |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 4:01:01 PM EDT
[#39]
How often do you practice live fire and dry fire
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Posted: 5/21/2022 4:01:16 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm nearsighted, wear glasses for driving; those glasses tend to fuzz my front sight. Red Dot. With some training. I’m 51 slightly nearsighted all my life. Now I can’t focus up close either. RDS is magic for me. Single plane focus. Focus on target. Present gun. Dot appears. Bang. I’m way faster with the dot. |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 4:02:24 PM EDT
[#41]
How often do you practice live fire and dry fire
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Posted: 5/21/2022 4:03:11 PM EDT
[#42]
Front sight
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Posted: 5/21/2022 4:04:16 PM EDT
[#43]
I will say Irons and FRONT SIGHT only, no need to line up sights that close. Point shooting for that.
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Posted: 5/21/2022 4:15:48 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: I've never used rds. I have a MOS Glock I could put a dot on. I'm sure a dot is advantageous at like 25 yards. How about speed inside 7-10 yards, which is quicker dot or iron sights? ETA: specifically keeping hits at speed on a 6" circle at 7-10 yards, not just anywhere on a silhouette. I have to use sights to do that, not point shooting. Irons |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 4:17:37 PM EDT
[#45]
I have both. RDS are faster, especially if you want to shoot any type of competition. Learning curve? Not really anything half a case of ammo and some range time won't fix. For real life self defense purposes at 7-10 yards, I don't think most people will even use the sights.
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Posted: 5/21/2022 4:20:48 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yup You should be able to close your eyes, draw, and be on target with the same sight picture, regardless of whether you're using dots or irons. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It's irrelevant Yup You should be able to close your eyes, draw, and be on target with the same sight picture, regardless of whether you're using dots or irons. Please post a video of you shooting with your eyes closed |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 4:27:54 PM EDT
[#47]
 If you somehow find yourself squared off on equal terms against someone like it’s high noon, 30 feet from each other and are not firing from the hip or on the way up…87% chance you lost.Any hits on 12x14 will be just fine. Making it a quick draw contest is bold. Best of luck. |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 4:31:02 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Point shooting. This is my opinion. Inside of 10 yds, I'm just looking to get something downrange at that point. I don't have much time left on the counter if my attacker is that close. |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 4:49:14 PM EDT
[#49]
Yes inside 10 yards point shooting all the way. At the most just looking down top of slide. People are big targets.
In a real fight that close, taking time to find the dot or line up sights might get you killed. |
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Posted: 5/21/2022 4:55:36 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Point shooting. Lulz. As long as accuracy isn’t a component, maybe. Real world measurements will shot dot being the winner given sufficient time and skill level on both. |
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