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Posted: 2/2/2021 8:46:42 AM EDT
[#1]
Quoted: I watched it again the other day and something puzzled me. Are his wife and adopted kid killed by the crow because he lead the army through their sacred burial ground (as an act of retaliation) or is is because he crossed their burial ground that somehow he was cursed and some injuns happen to massacre his family ? I say this because the timeframe in between the two events seems to be too short for it to really be retaliation. And also because is has some kind of premonition while crossing back. What do you think is what the director wanted to suggest ? Because he led the army through the burial ground. No 'curse', but the disrespect would not be tolerated. |
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Posted: 2/2/2021 8:46:56 AM EDT
[#2]
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Posted: 2/2/2021 8:47:28 AM EDT
[#3]
I think it was retaliation. He had been in good terms with the Crow up until that point.
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Posted: 2/2/2021 8:55:29 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryRetaliation. They probably had a couple days to do this. I doubt it was just a four hour ride, and four back.  How was this not at least the second post?! |
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Posted: 2/2/2021 8:59:32 AM EDT
[#5]
I took it as retaliation, and if memory serves that is expanded on in the book "Liver Eating Johnson".
I know the part you are thinking "premonition"....I always thought that was more of his ability to hear/smell/note some "odd" going on. |
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Posted: 2/2/2021 9:10:07 AM EDT
[#6]
I wondered the same when I first watched the movie but according to Wikipedia and IMDB trivia, he notices her blue decorations added to the burial site.
I don't think the movie emphasized it as clearly as it could have but maybe that was by design to add a sense of supernatural to it as well. |
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Posted: 2/2/2021 9:15:04 AM EDT
[#7]
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Posted: 2/2/2021 9:15:36 AM EDT
[#8]
I need to read more about Liver eating Johnston anyway.
Last time i was in red Lodge i didn’t know he had lived there. Talk about some kind of Uber bad ass ! One tale ascribed to Johnson[5][6] (while other sources ascribe it to Boone Helm[7]) is that while on a foray of over five hundred miles (800 km) in the dead of winter to sell whiskey to his Flathead kin he was ambushed by a group of Blackfoot warriors. The Blackfoot planned to sell him to the Crow, his mortal enemies, for a handsome price.[vague] He was stripped to the waist, tied with leather thongs and put in a teepee with only one very inexperienced guard. Johnson managed to break through the straps. He then knocked out his young guard with a kick, took his knife, scalped him, and then quickly cut off one of his legs.[dubious – discuss] He made his escape into the woods, surviving by eating the Blackfoot's leg, until he reached the cabin of Del Gue, his trapping partner, a journey of about two hundred miles (320 km). |
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Posted: 2/2/2021 11:03:46 AM EDT
[#9]
Very interesting video
 John "Liver Eating" Johnston the real life mountain man who inspired the movie Jeremiah Johnson |
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Posted: 2/7/2021 8:25:38 PM EDT
[#10]
It’s on right now one one of the poorz movie channels, REELZ.
When he’s building the cabin and cutting a tree down with Caleb, he sees a Hawk. He says it would take him a week of riding to get over the mountain to the Musselshell, and says the hawk, “he’s already there”. So he was likely gone for several days with the settler party, and the guy from “the Jeffersons”. And then maybe a couple days back. |
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Posted: 2/7/2021 10:02:12 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: or is it because he crossed their burial ground that somehow he was cursed and some injuns happen to massacre his family? @Shung It was retaliation. Watch the scene early in the movie where he's out hunting with Bearclaw and they run into Paints-his-shirt-red. The arrow hits the tree. Bearclaw looks at the symbol painted on it and says "Fellow by the name of Paints-his-shirt-red, that's his sign." Fast forward to the scene where Jeremiah gets back to the cabin and finds his family dead. He sits there all night in shock. In the morning, his horse wanders over to the door of the cabin. He goes out the door. Stuck in the wall is an arrow. It has the same symbol on it. Jeremiah had become good friends with PHSR, but he did a major violation of the rules and they punished him for it. Their burial ground, their rules. |
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Posted: 2/7/2021 10:05:42 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I know the part you are thinking "premonition"....I always thought that was more of his ability to hear/smell/note some "odd" going on. Or he just had a feeling that he fucked up and they knew it. |
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Posted: 2/7/2021 10:13:28 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: according to Wikipedia and IMDB trivia, he notices her blue decorations added to the burial site. Well, I guess I have to watch it again for the 23457th time now. 
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Posted: 2/7/2021 10:21:12 PM EDT
[#14]
There’s a ton of subtle brilliant details in the film. A couple of my favorites:
The people he meets in the first half of the movie, he sees again in the second half, but in reverse order. Paints his shirt, Bear Claw, Crazy Woman, Del Gue. Of course the Crazy Woman is dead when he returns, but it’s all reversed at the end. Del Gue finds Jeremiah, and he has hair; he doesn’t want to fight Indians, unlike their first meet. Johnson feeds Bear Claw, instead of the other way around. Paints his Shirt greets him instead of ignoring him. When he’s talking to Bear Claw at the end, think of “winter” as a metaphor for death. The whole convo is about death. Which is why Bear Claw turns and subtly wipes a tear away at the end of the discussion. Brilliant movie. |
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Posted: 2/7/2021 10:26:30 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Shung It was retaliation. Watch the scene early in the movie where he's out hunting with Bearclaw and they run into Paints-his-shirt-red. The arrow hits the tree. Bearclaw looks at the symbol painted on it and says "Fellow by the name of Paints-his-shirt-red, that's his sign." Fast forward to the scene where Jeremiah gets back to the cabin and finds his family dead. He sits there all night in shock. In the morning, his horse wanders over to the door of the cabin. He goes out the door. Stuck in the wall is an arrow. It has the same symbol on it. Jeremiah had become good friends with PHSR, but he did a major violation of the rules and they punished him for it. Their burial ground, their rules. And then Johnson slaughtered their no-good asses with the utmost savagery! 
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Posted: 2/7/2021 10:31:22 PM EDT
[#16]
was something from his cabin placed at the burial site? for some reason I thought something a "piece of fabric" was placed at the site is what triggered the urgency to get home.
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Posted: 2/7/2021 10:55:06 PM EDT
[#17]
“You don’t believe that do you?”
“Doesn’t matter, they do.” That is all you need to know. |
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Posted: 2/7/2021 10:58:14 PM EDT
[#18]
I don't think the cause and effect was there. I think the director was showing that Johnson had been with the Indians for so long that he was like them. I think he believed that the burial ground was sacred and he had a premonition when he returned thru it because he had become "one" with the land. I believe that the attack was just a normal war party attack.
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Posted: 2/7/2021 10:59:20 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: “You don’t believe that do you?” “Doesn’t matter, they do.” That is all you need to know. YES!!! |
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Posted: 2/7/2021 11:00:38 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I took it as retaliation, and if memory serves that is expanded on in the book "Liver Eating Johnson". I know the part you are thinking "premonition"....I always thought that was more of his ability to hear/smell/note some "odd" going on. Another good read is "Crow Killer".....sorry,don't remember the author's name |
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Posted: 2/7/2021 11:01:50 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wondered the same when I first watched the movie but according to Wikipedia and IMDB trivia, he notices her blue decorations added to the burial site. I don't think the movie emphasized it as clearly as it could have but maybe that was by design to add a sense of supernatural to it as well. |
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