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Posted: 9/1/2021 2:31:27 PM EDT
[#1]
Four more voids created... that will soon be filled by leftists.
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Posted: 9/1/2021 2:37:44 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/grand-jury-elijah-mcclain-investigation-indicts-officers-medics-2019-death-n1278240 Two police officers, one former officer and two paramedics in Aurora, Colorado, will face charges in the death of Elijah McClain, a young Black man who was detained, placed in a chokehold and given a powerful sedative in a confrontation with police in 2019. Ketamine and other anesthetics that are not used with dedicated breathing support have ALWAYS been some of the more dangerous types of General Anesthesia. The easy availability of Pulse Oximeters has made their use somewhat safer. If the PO2 of the blood starts to drop alarms go off. The use of a Pulse Oximeter is often a requirement when these type of drugs are used. The difference between "insensate" and "dead from not breathing" can be very narrow. Especially if EtOH or other drugs are involved. |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 4:43:32 PM EDT
[#3]
I am surprised they went after the paramedics.
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Posted: 9/1/2021 4:45:03 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Four more voids created... that will soon be filled by leftists. Is that the narrative now, all kinds of leftists just sitting around waiting for cops retire, die or go to prison so they can replace them ? |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 4:46:15 PM EDT
[#5]
I find it hard to care, in this case.
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Posted: 9/1/2021 4:46:42 PM EDT
[#6]
Coc 4 and 7, deleted~justsayin
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Posted: 9/1/2021 4:50:27 PM EDT
[#7]
Why shoot him up with ketamine after he had been cuffed?
Why not just toss him in back and haul him off to jail? |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 4:57:24 PM EDT
[#8]
what's going to get them is they posed for a pic iirc
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Posted: 9/1/2021 5:00:27 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ketamine and other anesthetics that are not used with dedicated breathing support have ALWAYS been some of the more dangerous types of General Anesthesia. The easy availability of Pulse Oximeters has made their use somewhat safer. If the PO2 of the blood starts to drop alarms go off. The use of a Pulse Oximeter is often a requirement when these type of drugs are used. The difference between "insensate" and "dead from not breathing" can be very narrow. Especially if EtOH or other drugs are involved. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/grand-jury-elijah-mcclain-investigation-indicts-officers-medics-2019-death-n1278240 Two police officers, one former officer and two paramedics in Aurora, Colorado, will face charges in the death of Elijah McClain, a young Black man who was detained, placed in a chokehold and given a powerful sedative in a confrontation with police in 2019. Ketamine and other anesthetics that are not used with dedicated breathing support have ALWAYS been some of the more dangerous types of General Anesthesia. The easy availability of Pulse Oximeters has made their use somewhat safer. If the PO2 of the blood starts to drop alarms go off. The use of a Pulse Oximeter is often a requirement when these type of drugs are used. The difference between "insensate" and "dead from not breathing" can be very narrow. Especially if EtOH or other drugs are involved. If you give someone ketamine then you should be monitoring them. SPO2 is not a good indicator as they are already becoming hypoxic when you start to see a drop. End Tidal Capnometry/Capnography is a much better metric. You can see the breathing rate (and other things) on your monitor. |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 5:01:36 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Coc 4 and 7, deleted~justsayin I don't know anything about this case, but I feel like this should be quoted before its deleted. ETA: After reading the article the charges sound like they are politically motivated. |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 5:05:08 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: all kinds of leftists just sitting around waiting for cops retire, die or go to prison so they can replace them ? Where was any such thing stated? |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 5:05:28 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am surprised they went after the paramedics. I'm not. 1) They gave the Ketamine on orders from the police, not on their own judgement of medical need. 2) They gave medication to a patient who was capable of consenting, without his consent. 3) They gave him 150% of the max dose for his weight. 4) It's debatable, but likely that the ketamine was the direct cause of death. |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 5:07:47 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not. 1) They gave the Ketamine on orders from the police, not on their own judgement of medical need. 2) They gave medication to a patient who was capable of consenting, without his consent. 3) They gave him 150% of the max dose for his weight. 4) It's debatable, but likely that the ketamine was the direct cause of death. EMS is not going to administer any drugs, especially something as strong as Ketamine, because an officer told them to. Anything that they administered was done so out of their own judgement. |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 5:14:30 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: EMS is not going to administer any drugs, especially something as strong as Ketamine, because an officer told them to. Anything that they administered was done so out of their own judgement. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm not. 1) They gave the Ketamine on orders from the police, not on their own judgement of medical need. 2) They gave medication to a patient who was capable of consenting, without his consent. 3) They gave him 150% of the max dose for his weight. 4) It's debatable, but likely that the ketamine was the direct cause of death. EMS is not going to administer any drugs, especially something as strong as Ketamine, because an officer told them to. Anything that they administered was done so out of their own judgement. And as a corollary to that, any EMS that administers medication based solely on the command of a police officer has no business being in medicine, period. Remember, "Just following orders" is not a valid defense. |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 5:16:20 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: EMS is not going to administer any drugs, especially something as strong as Ketamine, because an officer told them to. Anything that they administered was done so out of their own judgement. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm not. 1) They gave the Ketamine on orders from the police, not on their own judgement of medical need. 2) They gave medication to a patient who was capable of consenting, without his consent. 3) They gave him 150% of the max dose for his weight. 4) It's debatable, but likely that the ketamine was the direct cause of death. EMS is not going to administer any drugs, especially something as strong as Ketamine, because an officer told them to. Anything that they administered was done so out of their own judgement. You may be right. I read up on the case a while back and remember someone stating that the cops asked for the shot. If that's wrong, I still think they F'd up. |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 5:16:53 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know anything about this case, but I feel like this should be quoted before its deleted. ETA: After reading the article the charges sound like they are politically motivated. They had a pretty weak case for seizing him in the first place so…that’s a complication. |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 5:20:41 PM EDT
[#17]
They murdered him because someone called 911 and told them he had a mask.
 Minute-To-Minute Breakdown Leading Up To Elijah McClain's Deadly Stop | NBC News NOW |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 5:22:01 PM EDT
[#18]
There are really some truly hate filled people on this forum.
It must be the worst I've ever seen. |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 5:23:27 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I don't know anything about this case, but I feel like this should be quoted before its deleted. ETA: After reading the article the charges sound like they are politically motivated. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Good. I hope those cops receive a swift execution. I don't know anything about this case, but I feel like this should be quoted before its deleted. ETA: After reading the article the charges sound like they are politically motivated. I really don’t know how you can come to the conclusion that this is mostly political. They fucked up bigly and someone ended up dead. |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 5:27:18 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You may be right. I read up on the case a while back and remember someone stating that the cops asked for the shot. If that's wrong, I still think they F'd up. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm not. 1) They gave the Ketamine on orders from the police, not on their own judgement of medical need. 2) They gave medication to a patient who was capable of consenting, without his consent. 3) They gave him 150% of the max dose for his weight. 4) It's debatable, but likely that the ketamine was the direct cause of death. EMS is not going to administer any drugs, especially something as strong as Ketamine, because an officer told them to. Anything that they administered was done so out of their own judgement. You may be right. I read up on the case a while back and remember someone stating that the cops asked for the shot. If that's wrong, I still think they F'd up. At 20:45 Firefighter says they're going to give him Ketamine when the EMS arrives. They then go on to talk about how strong he is due to "whatever he's on". So the cops set him up to be sedated to death, by assuming he was on drugs. How nice of them.  RAW: Bodycam video shows incident where man died following struggle with Aurora police |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 5:28:31 PM EDT
[#21]
Interesting.
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Posted: 9/1/2021 5:29:30 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They murdered him because someone called 911 and told them he had a mask.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGlHMZQtO7UWow...  |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 5:30:25 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are really some truly hate filled people on this forum. It must be the worst I've ever seen. You will blindly defend anyone with a badge, won't you? 
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Posted: 9/1/2021 5:32:20 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: At 20:45 Firefighter says they're going to give him Ketamine when the EMS arrives. They then go on to talk about how strong he is due to "whatever he's on". So the cops set him up to be sedated to death, by assuming he was on drugs. How nice of them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uI9cBHgCS4Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I'm not. 1) They gave the Ketamine on orders from the police, not on their own judgement of medical need. 2) They gave medication to a patient who was capable of consenting, without his consent. 3) They gave him 150% of the max dose for his weight. 4) It's debatable, but likely that the ketamine was the direct cause of death. EMS is not going to administer any drugs, especially something as strong as Ketamine, because an officer told them to. Anything that they administered was done so out of their own judgement. You may be right. I read up on the case a while back and remember someone stating that the cops asked for the shot. If that's wrong, I still think they F'd up. At 20:45 Firefighter says they're going to give him Ketamine when the EMS arrives. They then go on to talk about how strong he is due to "whatever he's on". So the cops set him up to be sedated to death, by assuming he was on drugs. How nice of them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3uI9cBHgCS4I hate to quote myself, but: @ 22:40 I think the same fire fighter who said they'd give him Ketamine tells arriving EMS to give him 500. |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 5:37:38 PM EDT
[#25]
According to body cam audio, these were McClain's last words as he was restrained by police officers:
I can't breathe. I have my ID right here. My name is Elijah McClain. That's my house. I was just going home. I'm an introvert. I'm just different. That's all. I'm so sorry. I have no gun. I don't do that stuff. I don't do any fighting. Why are you attacking me? I don't even kill flies! I don't eat meat! But I don't judge people, I don't judge people who do eat meat. Forgive me. All I was trying to do was become better. I will do it. I will do anything. Sacrifice my identity, I'll do it. You all are phenomenal. You are beautiful and I love you. Try to forgive me. I'm a mood Gemini. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. Ow, that really hurt! You are all very strong. Teamwork makes the dream work. Oh, I'm sorry, I wasn't trying to do that. I just can't breathe correctly. |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 5:40:18 PM EDT
[#26]
What was their "reasonable articulable suspicion" to stop him?
What crime did they suspect he had committed? |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 5:43:23 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What was their "reasonable articulable suspicion" to stop him? What crime did they suspect he had committed? It's tough to pin cops on criminal prosecutions-look at the guy they killed in the hotel hallway-but sneering Derek Chauvin may have changed that. The ketamine injection sounds bad |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 5:43:37 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are really some truly hate filled people on this forum. It must be the worst I've ever seen.  The cops that killed a guy for wearing a mask? |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 5:47:50 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are really some truly hate filled people on this forum. It must be the worst I've ever seen. |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 5:55:02 PM EDT
[#30]
Lost here, why give Ketamine?
He was handcuffed. Hog tie him 4 point restraints, something else. the dying it was not the cops fault, but the paramedics |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 5:55:37 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What was their "reasonable articulable suspicion" to stop him? What crime did they suspect he had committed? These assholes protected and served the shit out of him!  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 5:55:50 PM EDT
[#32]
I remember this case, very tragic what happened to this poor guy, I hope his family gets some closure and some justice.
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Posted: 9/1/2021 5:56:28 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You will blindly defend anyone with a badge, won't you? You will blindly damn anyone who does not share your hate, won't you? |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 5:57:42 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not. 1) They gave the Ketamine on orders from the police, not on their own judgement of medical need. 2) They gave medication to a patient who was capable of consenting, without his consent. 3) They gave him 150% of the max dose for his weight. 4) It's debatable, but likely that the ketamine was the direct cause of death. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I am surprised they went after the paramedics. I'm not. 1) They gave the Ketamine on orders from the police, not on their own judgement of medical need. 2) They gave medication to a patient who was capable of consenting, without his consent. 3) They gave him 150% of the max dose for his weight. 4) It's debatable, but likely that the ketamine was the direct cause of death. That’s the part that was missing. Cops don’t have the legal or medical authority to order anyone give any medication. This is a prime example of why, when at the intersection of medicine and policing, you tell the officer to kindly piss off if you’re EMS, a nurse or a doctor. Wait for a judge to order you to do something and then do it under protest no matter how innocuous it may seem. let them take the blame. |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 5:58:13 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You will blindly damn anyone who does not share your hate, won't you? Who hates who here? |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 5:59:02 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lost here, why give Ketamine? He was handcuffed. Hog tie him 4 point restraints, something else. the dying it was not the cops fault, but the paramedics The police wanted him drugged, in their expert opinion, he was too strong for them to handle while alive. |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 5:59:58 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You will blindly damn anyone who does not share your hate, won't you? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You will blindly defend anyone with a badge, won't you? You will blindly damn anyone who does not share your hate, won't you? What hate? These assholes killed a man for wearing a mask and you think that is ok?
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Posted: 9/1/2021 6:01:05 PM EDT
[#38]
Even if the paramedics were correct in the excited delirium assessment, they got the Ketamine dose way wrong.
Based on what I could find, the dose of Ketamine for ED is 4-5mg/kg Elijah weighed 140lbs or 63kg Dose should have been 250-320mg. They gave him 500mg This dose was 156%-200% of the recommended dose. Ketamine is used by some vets for euthanasia. It's not something to fuck around with. This was depraved indifference to Elijah's life, at best. At worst, they put him down like a dog. |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 6:02:41 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: EMS is not going to administer any drugs, especially something as strong as Ketamine, because an officer told them to. Anything that they administered was done so out of their own judgement. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm not. 1) They gave the Ketamine on orders from the police, not on their own judgement of medical need. 2) They gave medication to a patient who was capable of consenting, without his consent. 3) They gave him 150% of the max dose for his weight. 4) It's debatable, but likely that the ketamine was the direct cause of death. EMS is not going to administer any drugs, especially something as strong as Ketamine, because an officer told them to. Anything that they administered was done so out of their own judgement. There's no way that a Medical Director would allow the administration of Ketamine in the prehospital setting based solely on the Paramedic's judgement. There has to be some type of Protocol that dictates when, why and under what clinical circumstances (i.e. excited delirium) Ketamine may be administered. If Ketamine is ,based on the Paramedics judgement, warranted but the situation doesn't fit within the protocol, then they should call their Medical Command for a consult and obtain permission to administer Ketamine... |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 6:03:02 PM EDT
[#40]
40p
Quote HistoryQuoted: The police wanted him drugged, in their expert opinion, he was too strong for them to handle while alive. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Lost here, why give Ketamine? He was handcuffed. Hog tie him 4 point restraints, something else. the dying it was not the cops fault, but the paramedics The police wanted him drugged, in their expert opinion, he was too strong for them to handle while alive. The paramedic was a dumbass if that is why Ketamine was given |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 6:03:14 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The police wanted him drugged, in their expert opinion, he was too strong for them to handle while alive. This guy?  Attached FileThe coroner's report states that McClain was 5 feet 6 inches (1.68 m) tall and weighed 140 pounds (64 kg). |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 6:03:59 PM EDT
[#42]
Ketamine has a really low risk of respiratory depression and wears off pretty quickly.
I’m no medical examiner but I doubt the dude died from the Ketamine… more likely the “excited delirium” w/ heart condition. The paramedics likely did the Special K because they were tasked w/ getting the guy under control and transported to a hospital. I’d seriously doubt they did it at the direction of a cop. Bottom line is that if people don’t want cops killing people when taking them into custody for bullshit stuff, perhaps cops shouldn’t be expected to use violence to enforce stupid nanny-state laws and run every aspect of peoples’ lives. (All that said, is there a problem with wearing a ski mask or balaclava in Colorado even if it’s not winter?) |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 6:05:24 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You will blindly damn anyone who does not share your hate, won't you? What hate are you talking about? Please use your words like an adult and explain. |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 6:06:35 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You will blindly damn anyone who does not share your hate, won't you? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You will blindly defend anyone with a badge, won't you? You will blindly damn anyone who does not share your hate, won't you? What hate have I shown in this thread? Please feel free to point it out to me. |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 6:08:09 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What hate? These assholes killed a man for wearing a mask and you think that is ok? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: You will blindly defend anyone with a badge, won't you? You will blindly damn anyone who does not share your hate, won't you? What hate? These assholes killed a man for wearing a mask and you think that is ok? He seems like the kind of guy that would have helped hold the victim down, if he could. 
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Posted: 9/1/2021 6:08:19 PM EDT
[#46]
why cops continue to show up for work baffles me.
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Posted: 9/1/2021 6:08:38 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These assholes protected and served the shit out of him! https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1874/6F8B2963-C587-4CEF-99A7-246983AD628C_jpe-2074721.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What was their "reasonable articulable suspicion" to stop him? What crime did they suspect he had committed? These assholes protected and served the shit out of him! https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1874/6F8B2963-C587-4CEF-99A7-246983AD628C_jpe-2074721.JPG They look like the office copier got jammed. |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 6:09:24 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you give someone ketamine then you should be monitoring them. SPO2 is not a good indicator as they are already becoming hypoxic when you start to see a drop. End Tidal Capnometry/Capnography is a much better metric. You can see the breathing rate (and other things) on your monitor. It is, of course, hard to know from the article what level of care was being provided during the transport. I would consider, at a minimum, SpO2 and a cardiac monitor to be indicated. Capnography would of course be the gold standard here. |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 6:09:26 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What was their "reasonable articulable suspicion" to stop him? What crime did they suspect he had committed? |
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Posted: 9/1/2021 6:12:23 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This guy? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/1874/20999EF8-373A-4BD7-8002-0127C8D3E6B9_jpe-2074725.JPG The coroner's report states that McClain was 5 feet 6 inches (1.68 m) tall and weighed 140 pounds (64 kg). "Whatever he's on, he has incredible strength!" "Yeah, crazy strength!" 
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