In hindsight we can say for sure that the cop was a deadly threat to the resident.

That will probably stay in the back of the mind for more than a few individuals there.

This is one the things that bugs me the most about modern LE. They are civilians themselves. Every single last one of them are civilians themselves. Stop referring to other people as civilians. You are one, too!!

Now apply exactly that to the airman.

The bottom line is it is quite obvious the airman did not need to be shot.  The cop in this case simply freaked out.  Could be he should never have been a cop, could be his training sucked, could be a lot of things.  But the bottom line is most rational normal people probably would not have shot the guy.  

If the airman would have done something with the gun that was concerning, aim it, pointed it? there would be a lot more reason for him to have been shot.  

Its just not there.  The cop screwed up.  He may get it out of it legally depending how their laws are written.  But hiding behind a law favoring the cop for just in case circumstances, doesn't change this airman never needed to be shot.  Those hard core defending should really check their moral compass.  

This shooting should literally never happened.  And hindsight is not a driving force.  It's obvious without hindsight.

I agree. I was just trying to address a specific point. Maybe I did a poor job. Maybe it's inappropriate to do so in threads like these.

+1

Well we've had posters claiming that what the resident did was brandishing.  Aka threatening the officer.  So it's pretty much clown world here.

Naw man its all good.  Just having a discussion in print.  You know all the issues that presents.  Its all good.  

I can't speak for everyone.

Okay, within that context I can go along with that.

Yeah, context is important, and oh so easy in text. No worries

According to the current anchor shot thread going on right now, yes. A pistol in your hand warrants instant execution.

Care? Not sure what you even mean by that.

Historically the word civilian has been defined as non-military.

Now we have LE Generals taking the podium, with 4 stars on their shoulders and collars, and referring to to every non-LEO as a civilian. It’s a departure from a historical norm and when historical norms change it elicits discussion.

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What's crazy is I NEVER SAID THAT!  I'm going to assume that your reading comprehension and command of the English language are garbage.  Your later paragraph proves this when you confuse the definition of assumed and verified.  Another failure of comprehension can be seen here:There is lots of legal shit that can kill you.  Whether or not Fortson committed a crime is irrelevant.  He completed the three elements of AOJ.  That's Ability (can aim and fire before the knocker can do anything about it), Opportunity (he's within a few feet without the knocker being securely behind cover), and Jeopardy (the choice to have the pistol in hand AND display it to the knocker instead of concealed from view or holstered instead of held.)

Yet again: I DID NOT SAY ANY OF THAT!  I did not claim that the mere existence of a weapon is threatening.  I did not say that FL law said that.

1) It is reasonable for anyone outside the door to feel threatened by the door being opened with the pistol visibly in hand.  If that wouldn't scare you then I am concerned for you.
2) He caused the effect by his choice.  It is possible to be prepared and keep the pistol out of sight so that argument is bunk too.

Open carry has nothing to do with this situation.

I heard that the ROEs in Iraq and Afghanistan were messed up, but learning that the ROE overrode your right to self-defense is a VERY sad day.

We do have bodycam with the word "police" being audible a few seconds before the door is opened.  You can argue it wasn't him, it was misunderstood, or he was talking to himself about calling the police instead of answering the door if you want.  I'm going to stick with it being Fortson and he knew or knew it was likely it was the police until and unless the deputy's or a witness's statement is released and says otherwise.

There's a big difference between assuming and them showing it to you.  I've been arguing from the assumption that everyone understood this.

This was very much advertent on Fortson's part.  Well, that's not quite true -- you could argue that he accidently opened the door or that he simply forgot he was holding the pistol.

Strange that you excoriate the deputy for staying to the side and shooting while simultaneously claiming you would get yourself out of the fatal funnel.  That statement demonstrates that, at least subconsciously, you know the truth.

Posting that image is dishonest as all hell.  He didn't bring his hand up until the deputy had completed his presentation and could not have stopped himself.

Care as in spend their free time worrying about it. The stars on that guy's costume have no bearing on my life.

That fat ass looks like a South American general with hos stupid stars and ribbons. And he’s still a civilian.

Boy, you really hate freedom don't you.

The fact that our military is out there in a hostile nation and wait for hostile intent but our cops and cop defenders think that a police force operating in our own nation shouldn't have to wait for hostile intent and can just gun down anyone they see who has a firearm on them - that's whacked.

So before you say but he didn't have the firearm just on him, he had it in his hand.    Do you really think it takes substantially more time to pull from your holster and shoot than it does to move your hand from at your side with gun in it to up and shooting?


ALSO - it's really telling that you don't want the American Citizens to make up a jury for a cop.  What the fuck dude? You serve the citizenry. The citizenry are your peers.  No one gets a jury of people of the same profession.  You think an owner of a strip club who gets accused of overlooking a little handjob for an extra $40 should be judged only by other stripclub owners?  Of course not.

Shootings by acorns?

Ever take a full power shot by an acorn? I doubt it.

C’mon man, this is ridiculous. Everyone knows you can’t kill ghosts and skeletons with guns. Duh.

Pro tip: everyone is. Unless you're active duty, or can be recalled, you're not special.

I would be more scared of a ghost than a guy with a gun or knife. A gun can dispatch an armed bad guy, how do you dispatch a ghost or other monster?

That's classified.

I never have and hope I never do. They must be pretty vicious judging by how some react to them.

That contraption from the Ghostbusters movie! We’ll never get them from the government through the 1033 program I bet.

https://bencrump.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/Roger-Fortson-girlfriend-FT-video.mp4
Ben Crump released part of the FaceTime video from the girlfriend.  Conveniently the shooting and everything before it is cut.

Police Activity on Youtube has the body cam video and it is much clearer than the video in the OP.

I appreciate your input.  I will call on you again should I require your unique perspective of reality.

Maybe because we're always told to just comply when police bark orders, such as  I don't know, maybe "open the door!"

The one time that happened to me, I did go to my door with my weapon in hand. Once I clearly saw a deputy through the large window in my door, I placed my weapon on my workstation adjacent to the foyer. Then answered the door. Roger's apartment doesn't have a large window to observe visitors, and did not appear to have anywhere to immediately place the weapon once ordered to open the door. Y'all are doing some serious mental gymnastics to convince yourselves he brought it on himself, or had ill intent.

That you're even attempting to compare one's posture in their own residence with that during a traffic stop tells me you are not a serious person.

He was complying with orders. Just like everyone says to do.

I seem to recall her asking clarification after firing off a few rounds...but that's just from memory. It raised my eyebrows at the time.

What the thin blue line is failing to understand is that since st floyd of fentanyl and BLM, half the country hates you. And many of you have displayed an absolute fear of apprehending actual criminals. So you resort to harassing the easy targets, you know so you can all go home at night. But those easy targets are the only ones left that support you. Well that support is dwindling. I guess you can say your family has your back, but the rate of DV within LEO is staggering, so do they?

I could have saved you a lot of typing. Answering a door and opening a door are not the same thing. Answering a door is a series of steps, one of which might be opening the door, if one is so inclined. While answering the door, one can gather additional information from the senses to make a decision on a) opening the door, b) telling the visitor to pound sand, c) ignoring the visitor, d) taking cover and returning fire. At any point from A to C, new information can come to light and alter one's decision. Your perception of the threat can change from red to green pretty quickly, especially once you realize it's buddy cop ordering you to open the door.

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I read his last sentence to mean that if he was, in fact, a criminal he'd have been UN-likely to answer (and open) the door in the manner he did. But I may have misread it.

Man, I want THAT GUY's prison wallet. Mine will only hold a toothbrush.

I think it's fair to say he likely knew, or at least was somewhat confident it was police at the time he OPENED the door. That doesn't mean this was the case when he retrieved the firearm, or even while walking to the door. He managed to de-escalate from "I wish a MF'er would" to "oh hey, officer" pretty quickly - which is more than we can say for the officer.

Evidently you and your “half the country” have plenty in common with BLM.  You take one, two - hell, a dozen highly emotional incidents over the years - to be proof positive of all cops are bastards.  The whole time ignoring that there are millions of absolutely boring police/citizen contacts a year.  

I suggest getting your emotions under control.  Not doing so inevitably leads to citing the same, single bullshit DV study of some a couple hundred random PD officers.  Does the family of an over emotional liar have his back, do they?  

I have a gun in my night stand.
It's not in a holster, just in the drawer, 92fs with a thumb safety.

If I hear something weird it's going to be in my hand and I can imagine opening the door still holding it.

It would be pointed at the ground just like this guy and it would never occur to me in a million years that anyone would think that's a threat.

Cop is simply a murderer.

I haven’t invoked any emotion. I’m presenting you with societal facts. I know you’re dying to tell me to pick up the can, you can do that yourself civilian

The internet disagreed with you… but maybe a stern letter to them may correct the definition?

Maybe bozo can check state law that defines branding… just a thought

Uh… the post was about someone comparing the deputy actions to combat operations clearing a house. It is not! Not even close. Then went on to say the soldier would face a court martial… as you know the soldiers jury would be made up of soldiers, all which have had combat training, most of which would have been deployed.  The deputy would not have jurors with the same base… but continue to be outraged

The acorn slayer was West Point grad, in special ops, beeed deployed to Afghanistan twice…from what I read. But continue on.

Brandishing?  I've posted it several times.  Requires the multiple factors that aren't met by holding straight down in a non threatening manner.

Just curious.  Why do you continue to engage obviously ignorant civilians (emphasis mine since you ensured we knew our caste) and prolonging this pointless thread?  Because it should be obvious by now that all non-cops are just too stupid to get what you are saying.

I can only surmise that you continuing to engage all us ignoramuses only serves to further stroke your ego and reinforce in your mind just how much better you are than the civilians you lord over.  The whole sheepdog thing, amirite?

Why the hell would I shoot him?

Jesus some of you are terrified at the thought of people carrying a weapon.

While I get Crump is a shitbag of the highest order, there's not much suspicious about that.

A FaceTime call is still a phone call, and are not normally recorded. It stands to reason the recording was by the person on the other side and they only began recording when there was a reason to do so (the person on the other side of the call getting shot).

You do understand that the ROE eventually ended up with us only being able to RETURN fire, right? He's not shooting at you? You don't get to pop his grape.