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Posted: 2/6/2022 10:47:03 PM EDT
My parent's house in TN burned on Friday morning. They are insured with Farm Bureau, and have a meeting with the adjuster on Monday. I told them to send me a copy of their policy via email to review. I also told them not to sign a damned thing put in front of them right now.

Legal dudes, what are common pitfalls when it comes to this situation?  I know enough about contract language to pick apart a contract, but don't know what questions I (and by extension my folks) should be asking, or what actions should be taken.

I can look up TN insurance caselaw in Lexis or Westlaw, but have no practical experience in this. Totes not a lawyer, but may end up needing one if Farm Bureau gets shitty.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 2/6/2022 11:12:02 PM EDT
[#1]
My mother’s house burned last July. Adjuster came and saw damage, asked about any problems that could have caused the fire. Later determined a squirrel chewed through an outside power line. He asked for list of things lost along with estimated costs. Make those estimated cost High. Mom got total insured amount 3 weeks after fire and $160k for contents a couple weeks later. No lawyer needed.
Link Posted: 2/6/2022 11:51:05 PM EDT
[#2]
Sucks bro. Glad they are OK though.
Link Posted: 2/6/2022 11:55:36 PM EDT
[#3]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Sucks bro. Glad they are OK though.
View Quote


Thankfully, my sister was there to measure the fireplace for a gas log insert. My dad is getting recovered from a bout of lung cancer and couldn't keep up with splitting firewood. He was asleep and my sister noticed smoke in the kitchen from a collapse of the chimney used by the wood burning stove in the kitchen that got into the wall. If it had happened at any other time, or if my sister hadn't been there, I don't know that my parents would still be alive.
Link Posted: 2/7/2022 7:22:02 AM EDT
[#4]
I sure hope it all works oot for all of you.
Link Posted: 2/7/2022 7:41:04 AM EDT
[#5]
We had a fire in Sept. of 2018 (still in Alabama at the time) and our insurance co. treated us very well-----not the slightest problem.
I imagine they'll be fine........but it still sucks.
Link Posted: 2/7/2022 7:46:23 AM EDT
[#6]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
 Hey OP... I used to be the guy who worked for insurance companies, and determined the value of every little thing in your house. The guy who would go head-to-head with those fire-truck-chasing professional loss adjusters. I may be able to help you not get screwed when filing your claim.

Our goal was to use the information you provided, and give the lowest damn value we can possibly justify for your item.

For instance, if all you say was "toaster" -- we would come up with a cheap-as-fuck $4.88 toaster from Walmart, meant to toast one side of one piece of bread at a time. And we would do that for every thing you have ever owned. We had private master lists of the most commonly used descriptions, and what the cheapest viable replacements were. We also had wholesale pricing on almost everything out there, so really scored cheap prices to quote. To further that example:

   If you said "toaster - $25" , we would have to be within -20% of that... so, we would find something that's pretty much dead-on $20.01.
   If you said "toaster- $200" , we'd kick it back and say NEED MORE INFO, because that's a ridiculous price for a toaster (with no other information given.)
   If you said "toaster, from Walmart" , you're getting that $4.88 one.
   If you said "toaster, from Macys" , you'd be more likely to get a $25-35 one.
   If you said "toaster", and all your other kitchen appliances were Jenn Air / Kitchenaid / etc., you would probably get a matching one.
   If you said "Proctor Silex 42888 2-Slice Toaster from Wamart, $9", you just got yourself $9.
   If you said "High-end Toaster, Stainless Steel, Blue glowing power button" ... you might get $35-50 instead. We had to match all features that were listed.

I'm not telling you to lie on your claim. Not at all. That would be illegal, and could cause much bigger issues (i.e., invalidating the entire claim). But on the flip side, it's not always advantageous to tell the whole truth every time. Pay attention to those last two examples.

I remember one specific customer... he had some old, piece of shit projector (from mid-late 90s) that could stream a equally piece of shit consumer camcorder. Worth like $5 at a scrap yard. It had some oddball fucking resolution it could record at, though -- and the guy strongly insisted that we replace with "Like Kind And Quality" (trigger words). Ended up being a $65k replacement, because the only camera on the market happened to be a high-end professional video camera (as in, for shooting actual movies). $65-goddam-thousand-dollars because he knew that loophole, and researched his shit.

Remember to list fucking every -- even the most mundane fucking bullshit you can think of. For example, if I was writing up the shower in my bathroom:

   Designer Shower Curtain - $35
   Matching Shower Curtain Liner for Designer Shower Curtain - $15
   Shower Curtain Rings x20 - $15
   Stainless Steel Soap Dispenser for Shower - $35
   Natural Sponge Loofah - from Whole Foods - $15
   Natural Sponge Loofah for Back - from Whole Foods - $19
   Holder for Loofahs - $20
   Bars of soap - from Lush - $12 each (qty: 4)
   Bath bomb - from Lush - $12
   High end shampoo - from salon - $40
   High end conditioner - from salon - $40
   Refining pore mask - from salon - $55

I could probably keep thinking, and bring it up to about $400 for the contents of my shower. Nothing there is "unreasonable" , nothing there is clearly out of place, nothing seems obviously fake. The prices are a little on the high-end, but the reality is, some people have expensive shit -- it won't actually get questioned. No claims adjuster is going to bother nitpicking over the cost of fucking Lush bath bombs, when there is a 20,000 item file to go through. The adjuster has other shit to do, too.

Most people writing claims for a total loss wouldn't even bother with the shower (it's just some used soap and sponges..) -- and those people would be losing out on $400.

Some things require documentation & ages. If you say "tv - $2,000" -- you're getting a 32" LCD, unless you can provide it was from the last year or two w/ receipts. Hopefully you have a good paper trail from credit/debit card expenditure / product registrations / etc.

If you're missing paper trails for things that were legitimately expensive -- go through every photo you can find that was taken in your house. Any parties you may have thrown, and guests put pics up on Facebook. Maybe an Imgur photo of your cat, hiding under a coffee table you think you purchased from Restoration Hardware. Like... seriously... come up with any evidence you possibly can, for anything that could possibly be deemed expensive.

The fire-truck chasing loss adjusters are evil sons of bitches, but, they actually do provide some value. You will definitely get more money, even if they take a cut. But all they're really doing, is just nitpicking the ever-living-shit out of everything you possibly owned, and writing them all up "creatively" for the insurance company to process.

Sometimes people would come back to us with "updated* claims. They tried it on their own, and listed stuff like "toaster", "microwave", "tv" .. and weren't happy with what they got back. So they hired a fire-truck chaser, and re-submitted with "more information." I have absolutely seen claims go from under $7k calculated, to over $100k calculated. (It's amazing what can happen when people suddenly "remember" their entire wardrobe came from Nordstrom.)
View Quote

Link Posted: 2/7/2022 8:02:17 AM EDT
[#7]
Don't close out your claim until you can't drag it out any longer. You will ALWAYS remember other things that you lost in the fire/claim and once it's closed, have fun.
Link Posted: 2/7/2022 8:32:21 AM EDT
[#8]
Same happened to my parents few years ago. As I recall the hardest thing was remembering and writing down the contents. It was just a year or so after I got married so I still had a lot of stuff still there. My renters insurance coverage covered my stuff as well.
Their adjuster was a good guy. He told them after a few days to calm down, imagine you are sitting on the couch and picture and write down what was on this wall, then what was on this wall, etc until they inventoried each room.  Having my sister and I there as they did this helped remember a lot of small but important things that my parents missed. Good luck
Link Posted: 2/7/2022 8:39:26 AM EDT
[#9]
No first hand experience here, but my sister dealt with it years ago. Be prepared to fight for every penny.

A friend that had his condo burn hired a third party adjuster to keep the insurance co in check.
Link Posted: 2/7/2022 8:46:47 AM EDT
[#10]
My father’s house burned down (total loss)  in April of last year. It was a challenging time to rebuild and get him situated. Happy to help with any specifics you need. I am not a legal advisor, but the games the insurance company play will be interesting for you.

- it’s perfectly acceptable to get an advance on the living expenses immediately incurred. It will be deducted from personal property payouts later.
- Trying to deal with day to day stuff will be challenging. My Dad chose to stay on his property, so we rented him an RV to live in. Costs were ~6k/Month, but insurance fully covered.
- He is now in a brand new home and we managed to pay off his mortgage in the proces
- Loss of many memories and personal items was painful, but he came out OK in the end.

Feel free to reach out if you want to bounce anything off me. I handled all the insurance dealings and the contractor for the rebuild.

Good luck and I surely empathize.
Link Posted: 2/7/2022 8:51:12 AM EDT
[#11]
A year+ ago I had a total loss from a tornado. The declarations won't give you enough info, read the contract to find all the "incidentals" you are entitled to and their limits. Temporary housing, storage, cleanup, etc

What they will do varies from company to company though. Some of my neighbors were given cash for temp housing, some were given the keys to rental property, my company (Nationwide) wouldn't give me cash but did rent an RV for me to park in the yard for a year.
Link Posted: 2/7/2022 8:54:43 AM EDT
[#12]
If it wasn't a total loss the insurance company may try to reuse framing that is charred.  They will say they can spray it with some chemical so it doesn't smell.  Have a structural engineer inspect it if that happens.
Link Posted: 2/7/2022 9:36:55 AM EDT
[#13]
looks like a rebuild...
Link Posted: 2/7/2022 11:56:42 AM EDT
[#14]
Link Posted: 2/7/2022 12:05:07 PM EDT
[#15]
contact a private insurance adjuster
Link Posted: 2/7/2022 1:23:50 PM EDT
[#16]
Yumago's quote is very valuable.

My SIL had a house fire some years ago and hired an independent adjuster. She told us that it all worked out due to the help of the adjuster.

A handful of years ago my Wife and I spotted a house fire on our street and called it in. After fire and police arrived, we headed home and walked back probably 45 minutes later. There must have been 6+ fire-chaser adjusters that landed on that property with clipboards. The homeowner arrived and was inundated. Personally, I'd never hire the fire-chaser adjusters, but I certainly would be looking for a reputable adjuster. I couldn't possibly list all the items in my house and we only moved to NH 3 yrs ago, so seeing what we own is fairly fresh in the back of my mind.

Good luck.
Link Posted: 2/7/2022 5:47:56 PM EDT
[#17]
The adjuster was in the house under 2 minutes and declared it a total loss.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 2/7/2022 6:22:09 PM EDT
[#18]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
My mother’s house burned last July. Adjuster came and saw damage, asked about any problems that could have caused the fire. Later determined a squirrel chewed through an outside power line. He asked for list of things lost along with estimated costs. Make those estimated cost High. Mom got total insured amount 3 weeks after fire and $160k for contents a couple weeks later. No lawyer needed.
View Quote
Some adjusters can be really good.  Not so much with Geico.
Link Posted: 2/7/2022 8:34:33 PM EDT
[#19]
Evidently, the first thing the adjuster did was hand my dad a check for 12 months of temporary living expenses at $1200 a month.
Link Posted: 2/7/2022 8:47:21 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Evidently, the first thing the adjuster did was hand my dad a check for 12 months of temporary living expenses at $1200 a month.
View Quote


I'm glad that they're not being stingy.

My dad lost a rental to fire and had to spend tens of thousands proving that he couldn't rebuild.

He used an independent adjuster.

Total loss is definitely a good thing, if you can stomach it... trying to fix that house would be a nightmare.
Link Posted: 2/7/2022 8:59:49 PM EDT
[#21]
The independent adjuster suggestions are horrible ideas. Let the insurance company do their job, then, if you can't negotiate a fair settlement, that's when you hire an independent.  In my case they "liquidated" the policy" meaning I was paid max for everything except personal property and that was more than fair. If I'd hired an adjuster he couldn't have possibly gotten me more and I would have had to pay him too
Link Posted: 2/7/2022 9:05:34 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The independent adjuster suggestions are horrible ideas. Let the insurance company do their job, then, if you can't negotiate a fair settlement, that's when you hire an independent.  In my case they "liquidated" the policy" meaning I was paid max for everything except personal property and that was more than fair. If I'd hired an adjuster he couldn't have possibly gotten me more and I would have had to pay him too
View Quote



Agree on this. Independent is the nuke from orbit option after other negotiations have failed.
Link Posted: 2/7/2022 9:07:51 PM EDT
[#23]
Yeah, they have been good so far, and my parents didn't have nice stuff in general. I just wanted to make sure I was aware of common pitfalls.
Link Posted: 2/7/2022 9:11:44 PM EDT
[#24]
You should absolutely hire one of those evil fire truck chasing public adjuster that are going to easily get you 30-40% more than you’ll get trying to go up against the carrier on your own.

The insurance company adjusters hate us because we level the playing field and force the carrier to actually pay a claim fairly.  

Not every insurance company or adjuster willfully screws their claimants, but the whole claims process is designed to “control” claims aka minimize claim payouts.

You need an advocate on your side to get through a major loss like that.  I can give you some recommendations if you want to drop me a PM.
Link Posted: 2/7/2022 9:13:56 PM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The independent adjuster suggestions are horrible ideas. Let the insurance company do their job, then, if you can't negotiate a fair settlement, that's when you hire an independent.  In my case they "liquidated" the policy" meaning I was paid max for everything except personal property and that was more than fair. If I'd hired an adjuster he couldn't have possibly gotten me more and I would have had to pay him too
View Quote


I disagree.  Generally, being able to control the process from day 1 with a professional on your side will yield far better results than that same professional having to unfuck your 6 month old claim that didn’t work out the way you wanted to.
Link Posted: 2/7/2022 10:44:55 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I disagree.  Generally, being able to control the process from day 1 with a professional on your side will yield far better results than that same professional having to unfuck your 6 month old claim that didn't work out the way you wanted to.
View Quote
They are not going to pay more than the policy. My experience, tornado, many of the homes around me were total loss too, most of the insurance companies paid out the entire policy. It was well worth my time to read my contract, there were numerous provisions that allowed more compensation than stated in my declarations. Of course some companies were better than others and a couple, out of 25-30, of my neighbors did get independent adjusters. My guess is, today, there are a lot of underinsured homes out there. My loss was Apr '20 and I got a very fair settlement, (it was enough to build a larger/nicer new home and salvage the garage from the old one) property values started soaring right after that. We rebuilt something totally different and I'm significantly underinsured already, just 15 mos after we completed construction.

I would guess it won't be much of a battle to get 100% on a house that's 20% underinsured. FWIW; I had Nationwide and they were "okay" (it took a while to settle personal property), USAA treated their customers the best by far, but their premiums are high. Allstate was the worst.
Link Posted: 2/8/2022 12:37:38 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The adjuster was in the house under 2 minutes and declared it a total loss.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/29456/received_1254718678271779_jpeg-2270640.JPG
View Quote



TN is a "valued policy" state for fire. If a property is declared a total loss, the insurance company is required to pay policy limit on buildings.

(the contents can still be adjusted)
Link Posted: 2/8/2022 4:27:10 PM EDT
[#28]
The following info/example was a commercial structure, but it wouldn't have been any different if it were a house.

Back ~11 yrs ago the roof collapsed due to snow loading at my gun club in MA. We had an insurance policy that had a "code requirements" override. Over the years, the building and fire codes change and thus, a lot of extra expense was required to rebuild to the current codes. It turns out that our policy covered such an event and they paid out significantly more than the insured amount for that reason. So it pays to check the fine print in your policy carefully.

Also, my homeowners policy has an automatic escalation clause for increase in value/cost to rebuild. As long as you have that, they will not treat you as "uninsured" if a loss occurs and the cost to rebuild is significantly higher than the insured amount. So again, check the policy.
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