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https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/04/22/world/ukraine-russia-war-news#russias-military-paid-a-high-price-for-the-kremlins-victory-in-the-ruined-city-of-mariupol
Mariupol, a strategic port city, was targeted on the first day of Russia’s invasion two months ago. It has been surrounded by Russian forces for some 50 days and been the scene of some of the most intense fighting of the war. While the defenders of the city are now confined to the steel plant, Ukrainians and western military analysts said that in weeks of fighting they killed high-ranking Russian soldiers and many members of elite Russian fighting units. Even as the city around them was reduced to rubble, Ukrainian soldiers continued to ambush and attack Russians entering the city. It is impossible to know exactly how many Russian soldiers were killed in the battle but the Institute for the Study of War, a Washington think-tank, said they suffered “high casualties.” “Russian forces involved in the battle of Mariupol are likely heavily damaged and Ukrainian forces succeeded in tying down and degrading a substantial Russian force,” according to the group’s analysis. |
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Originally Posted By SafetyFirst: Does it look like a panic button at the bottom of the table? My eyesight is not so great but that is what it looks like to me. View Quote Nah, but there IS another photo of that meeting that does show a hidden panic button. That photo’s doctored anyway but the other one shows a set of buttons to Putin’s left, under the table edge. I think I saw it on Twitter but can’t find it right now. |
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Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Yea, skip to about 7 minutes in, the amount of worldwide nuke testing was insane, plus the Mega ton stuff. Or you can speed the video up to get the idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLCF7vPanrY View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Originally Posted By K5FAL: Originally Posted By Glock63: Lol, complete bullshit. The nuclear winter crap has been debunked a million times. Yep, if they only knew how many atmospheric tests the US, USSR, UK, France, and China did early in the Cold War, including big ones like Castle Bravo and Tsar Bomba. We should all be dead now. Yea, skip to about 7 minutes in, the amount of worldwide nuke testing was insane, plus the Mega ton stuff. Or you can speed the video up to get the idea. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLCF7vPanrY Always amused by the test that Francy did in the middle of the ocean. I mean who are they going to surrender to next. |
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Originally Posted By Jack67: That’s some good stuff right there. Some cold analysis by the professionals who’ve at least gotten their own boots dirty. Only 1/2 way through it, but one big take away for me - May 9 is likely to be a major pageant and tear jerker in order to announce the calling up of massive reserves and additional conscripts for a hell-or-highwater style Götterdämmerung. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Jack67: Originally Posted By PurpleOtter: Long read .PDF download of a think tank analysis of the protracted conflict: Download .pdf Operation Z: The Death Throes of an Imperial Delusion That’s some good stuff right there. Some cold analysis by the professionals who’ve at least gotten their own boots dirty. Only 1/2 way through it, but one big take away for me - May 9 is likely to be a major pageant and tear jerker in order to announce the calling up of massive reserves and additional conscripts for a hell-or-highwater style Götterdämmerung. Kinda like Goebbels’ infamous “Total War” speech? |
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Originally Posted By ludder093:
View Quote gotta admit that is one good looking dog. Seems smart too. |
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Putin races to salvage military secrets on board sunken Moskva: Russian president 'scrambles eight-ship flotilla to wreck of Black Sea Fleet flagship to secure coding devices and unexploded missiles' as dead crew families blast Kremlin 'lies' over sinking
Putin has launched a major salvage operation to the wreck of the downed Black Sea Fleet flagship to secure military secrets including coding devices, unexploded missiles, and possibly even attempt to bring the bodies of dead sailors back home, naval experts have claimed. An eight-ship salvage flotilla including Kommuna, the world's oldest active warship, and submarine has been sent to the site of the sunken Moskva 80 miles off the coast of Odessa from Sevastopol, the large naval base in Russia-annexed Crimea, according to a report by Forbes. Military expert HI Sutton has suggested that Putin may be hoping to retrieve 'cryptological materials - radios and keys indicating secret codes - as well as any weapons or logs that might be of interest to a foreign power'. He explained that the sole purpose of the 315ft-long Kommuna, which was built 110 years ago for Tsar Nicholas II's navy and served in the Imperial and Soviet navies during both world wars, is to recover sunken vessels and cargo after a shipwreck or other maritime casualty. But since the Moskva is around 160ft under water, experts believe it is unlikely that Kommuna will attempt to salvage the entire wreck. A US defence official told Forbes: 'That would be an enormous engineering task, to try to bring that ship up to the surface. We've seen no indication that they have shown any interest in doing that.' The angry families of Russian servicemen desperately searching for their sons who they said served on the Moskva warship prior to its sinking have hit out at Kremlin 'lies' and 'bullying' after Putin had promised them they would not be sent to the warzone in Ukraine. Some relatives have been warned they will not get financial 'compensation' for their loved-ones' deaths if they go to the media. Despite this, brave Dmitry Shkrebets, father of Yegor Shkrebets, has launched a campaign to force out the truth about what happened to the warship - and their sons - faced with a wall of obfuscation from the Russian authorities. He told Current Times: 'All the guilty should be punished for what they did. Or rather, what they didn't do.' It took the Russian military more than a week to acknowledge that one serviceman died and 27 dozen others were missing after the ship - one of its flagship cruisers - sank in the Black Sea, reportedly the result of a Ukrainian missiles strike. Russia's Defence Ministry said in its announcement on Friday the ship had been damaged by a fire, with 396 crew members evacuated. The ministry did not offer any explanation for its earlier claims that the full crew got off the vessel before it sank. The loss of the Moskva, one of three missile cruisers of its kind in Russia's fleet, was shrouded in mystery from the moment it was first reported early on April 14. Ukraine said it hit the ship with missiles. The Russian Defence Ministry would not acknowledge an attack, saying only that a fire broke out on the vessel after ammunition detonated, causing serious damage. In this photo provided by the Russian Defense Ministry Press Service, Russian navy missile cruiser Moskva is on patrol in the Mediterranean Sea near the Syrian coast on December 17, 2015 Continued Yegor Shkrebets, 20, a conscript who went missing after the Moskva cruiser death. Posing with his father Dmitry Shkrebets. Yegor Shkrebets posing with other sailors at Moskva cruiser, 4 days before the ship sank. Among them is another missing conscript, Mark Tarasov, 24 |
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Originally Posted By SafetyFirst: Does it look like a panic button at the bottom of the table? My eyesight is not so great but that is what it looks like to me. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By SafetyFirst: Originally Posted By M-1975: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/177432/amqu5r18n2v81_jpg-2358250.JPG Does it look like a panic button at the bottom of the table? My eyesight is not so great but that is what it looks like to me. Could it be as simple as Putin being nervous and panicy because he is not used to being near anybody? |
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Bad things happen in isolated instances in an armed populace, horrific things happen to a disarmed populace. 20th Century Democide https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM
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Originally Posted By realwar: Putin races to salvage military secrets on board sunken Moskva: snip... View Quote I don't get russia's reactions to this as it would have been a slam dunk Goebbels/Dresden media event. With FlightRadar showing an RC-135 and AWACS in the area, they could've easy spread the news that the Muskva had been hit with the help of NATO/U.S. with significant casualties. That would've ginned up public support in russia and put the west on the defensive. Instead, they continued to lie to the point of absurdity. Never interrupt your enemy when they're making a mistake but the news and propaganda potential was a missed opportunity by the russians. Makes you wonder is anyone in charge is sober with a functioning liver. |
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Originally Posted By Jack67: Thiat was a great post to clarify it. I also don’t buy the sniping angle - SoF are not sneaking that close to CPs, that consistently. That’s naive to think so. This whole thing is so reminiscent of classic mistakes from the past. The biggest one that comes to mind is Panzer Group West HQ in Normandy in June 44. They stood-up a command for all mobile forces to organize a D-Day counter-attack. The Germans were fresh from the Eastern Front, ignored all advice from Rommel’s staff and others about allied capabilities. Set up a CP in the clear at a lovely Chateau and started broadcasting away. Within days they’d been not only ID’d by comint but absolutely obliterated in a coordinated RAF strike. Germans had to hand command of the units off to an SS ground general idiot and all their mobile resources were wasted for weeks until a CoC could be re-established. Honestly it seems there’s just little substantial difference between that behavior and error and what we are seeing here. These repeated Russian losses just smack of the same arrogance and ignorance - absolutely no understanding of a modern battlefield. It’s like they’ve never, ever, had a realistic wargame with an understanding of opponent capabilities. View Quote You can snipe with 127mm too. It’s just a larger caliber. |
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Mariupol - The Battle for Azovstal - New Special Report Preview
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Originally Posted By dispatch55126: I don't get russia's reactions to this as it would have been a slam dunk Goebbels/Dresden media event. With FlightRadar showing an RC-135 and AWACS in the area, they could've easy spread the news that the Muskva had been hit with the help of NATO/U.S. with significant casualties. That would've ginned up public support in russia and put the west on the defensive. Instead, they continued to lie to the point of absurdity. Never interrupt your enemy when they're making a mistake but the news and propaganda potential was a missed opportunity by the russians. Makes you wonder is anyone in charge is sober with a functioning liver. View Quote As far as I can tell they have been trying to imply that NATO either helped or did it themselves. Their internal propaganda (even aside from Moskva) has already shifted to heavily implying if not outright stating that they are really righting NATO which is why things aren't going so smoothly. There is ample evidence of that. Effectively this is Kursk all over again, proving that Putin/Russia haven't learned a thing. They were NEVER going to be able to sweep Moskva under the rug. It isn’t an expendable T72 with a nameless crew from the boondocks. Its a prestige unit in a prestige service with family members who actually matter (somewhat) in Russian society. It was a bad mistake to lie so blatantly about Moskva - it may cause Russians to wonder what else they are lying about. |
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Originally Posted By spydercomonkey: https://www.nytimes.com/live/2022/04/22/world/ukraine-russia-war-news#russias-military-paid-a-high-price-for-the-kremlins-victory-in-the-ruined-city-of-mariupol Mariupol, a strategic port city, was targeted on the first day of Russia’s invasion two months ago. It has been surrounded by Russian forces for some 50 days and been the scene of some of the most intense fighting of the war. While the defenders of the city are now confined to the steel plant, Ukrainians and western military analysts said that in weeks of fighting they killed high-ranking Russian soldiers and many members of elite Russian fighting units. Even as the city around them was reduced to rubble, Ukrainian soldiers continued to ambush and attack Russians entering the city. It is impossible to know exactly how many Russian soldiers were killed in the battle but the Institute for the Study of War, a Washington think-tank, said they suffered “high casualties.” “Russian forces involved in the battle of Mariupol are likely heavily damaged and Ukrainian forces succeeded in tying down and degrading a substantial Russian force,” according to the group’s analysis. View Quote Books will be written even movies made about them |
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Only God will judge me.
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Originally Posted By RolandofGilead: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/45602/20220423_141040_2_jpg-2359389.JPG View Quote Lol clowns |
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Only God will judge me.
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Originally Posted By Jack67: These repeated Russian losses just smack of the same arrogance and ignorance - absolutely no understanding of a modern battlefield. It’s like they’ve never, ever, had a realistic wargame with an understanding of opponent capabilities. View Quote To be fair, I don’t think any Army really trains it, to be fair. At the CTCs platoon leaders and company commanders drop like flies, but because it’s their report card, Bn cdrs and BDE cdrs are almost never out of the fight. US TOCs in OEF/OIF weren’t that special; you have this weird situation where a small country with limited fires is probably getting the best ISR in the world. On the offense, knocking out a CP is far more important then logistics as clearly the Russians don’t train it at a low level. My guess is being Russians they’d have the adjacent HQ take over as well, but yeah, this is a new development. The ability to sigint a HQ and crush it is new. Forgotten art. |
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Originally Posted By Zhukov: You can obviously do a lot with less, and we created nuclear weapons with little more than slide rules. Things are a lot more technology dependent now. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Zhukov: Originally Posted By USMCTanker: The Russians have historically "done more with less" when it comes to nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles. They successfully launched two FBMs from subs in the Arctic in 2019, so they must be doing something right. Also, they recently developed an autonomous nuclear powered torpedo with a 2 MT warhead, so they obviously don't lack for the wherewithal to be innovative in areas we don't bother with. You can obviously do a lot with less, and we created nuclear weapons with little more than slide rules. Things are a lot more technology dependent now. What I was getting at is how the Soviets were able to achieve with higher mathematics written out on chalkboards what we did with the aid of computers, primitive as they may have been at the time. They had the intellectual talent to get it done. In an era when upscale retail stores in Moscow used the abacus because they didn’t have cash registers like we did and do in the west, the USSR overcame technological challenges and were still able to put an RV on target from thousands of miles away using mad math skills. After the collapse of the USSR, computers with all of their computational power became available to Russia. I wouldn’t count on their ICBMs and FBMs not working just because their rolling stock was neglected while in storage, any more than I would count on a launch order from Putin being ignored by his senior military officers because we can’t understand how anyone could think like that. Obviously, this conflict has a very strong potential to expand and go global. We may get a front row seat to witnessing just how good the Russians are at maintaining the readiness of their strategic nuclear forces. |
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Brimstone: The missiles the UK could send Ukraine - explained |
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Originally Posted By CharlieR: To be fair, I don’t think any Army really trains it, to be fair. At the CTCs platoon leaders and company commanders drop like flies, but because it’s their report card, Bn cdrs and BDE cdrs are almost never out of the fight. . View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By CharlieR: Originally Posted By Jack67: These repeated Russian losses just smack of the same arrogance and ignorance - absolutely no understanding of a modern battlefield. It’s like they’ve never, ever, had a realistic wargame with an understanding of opponent capabilities. To be fair, I don’t think any Army really trains it, to be fair. At the CTCs platoon leaders and company commanders drop like flies, but because it’s their report card, Bn cdrs and BDE cdrs are almost never out of the fight. . While yes, the rotation influences their report card and feedback is occasionally sought by the senior mentors on poor performing Bn cdrs, the main reason they are rarely out of the fight is because it is a $28Million exercise(in JRTC's case) designed to exercise and refine the BCT and Bn staffs and that commander is needed to drive most staff processes. There is simply enough time in the rotation to lose the commander and derail any potential improvement the unit is making. Push the rotation from 14 to 30 days and you might have an opportunity to lose a commander for the day+ it takes to get a replacement at a CTC. For now, we just have to settle for when he takes off with his TAC CP for too long. |
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Originally Posted By Bunn19: A few teams of saboteurs with MANPADs or loitering suicide drones could wreak havoc on their strategic bomber fleet. I'd love to see a bunch of their Blackjacks get taken out on landing or take off with MANPADs or blow up/set on fire on the apron with switchblade 600s or other loitering suicide drones. View Quote More strategic targets would be trains, fuel depots, munitions depots, supply convoys, etc. Cut off their ability to resupply and their war effort grinds to a halt. |
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Originally Posted By Zhukov: I don't think this got the attention it deserved from the tl;dr crowd, so let me post some salient info...
View Quote wonderful summary, thank you |
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Originally Posted By YaNi05: It would be a good morale boost, but it really doesn't do much strategic. None of their bombers is stealthy, so they're all just launching cruise missiles from outside of Ukrainian airspace. More strategic targets would be trains, fuel depots, munitions depots, supply convoys, etc. Cut off their ability to resupply and their war effort grinds to a halt. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By YaNi05: Originally Posted By Bunn19: A few teams of saboteurs with MANPADs or loitering suicide drones could wreak havoc on their strategic bomber fleet. I'd love to see a bunch of their Blackjacks get taken out on landing or take off with MANPADs or blow up/set on fire on the apron with switchblade 600s or other loitering suicide drones. More strategic targets would be trains, fuel depots, munitions depots, supply convoys, etc. Cut off their ability to resupply and their war effort grinds to a halt. Uh. You would force Russia to maintain massive amounts of internal security forces that can’t be committed to Ukraine. If you were able to kill bombers on the runway that is definitely a huge boost but also a huge hit for Russia. Those pilots should have to risk death for firing cruise missiles and some of them need to be killed. Russia has to know Ukraine can touch them anywhere. |
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Originally Posted By 2tired2run: So how did the Siemens plcs end up in iran? The point of sanctions is to deny dual use technologies. EU countries have been slobbering all over themselves for years to do business with Iran. Point being Germany and others dont give a shit they'll sell their souls to make a buck and their governments either look the other way or actively encourage it. Why do you think the EU is so eager was so eager to do a deal with Iran. They wanted the business just like they wanted Russian energy and business. View Quote It's probably safe to say that there are complex loopholes in sanctions since politicians are in charge of those. Plus, Germany does want Germany wants regardless of their "allies". |
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Originally Posted By dispatch55126: I don't get Russia's reactions to this as it would have been a slam dunk Goebbels/Dresden media event. With Flight Radar showing an RC-135 and AWACS in the area, they could've easy spread the news that the Muskva had been hit with the help of NATO/U.S. with significant casualties. That would've ginned up public support in Russia and put the west on the defensive. Instead, they continued to lie to the point of absurdity. Never interrupt your enemy when they're making a mistake but the news and propaganda potential was a missed opportunity by the Russians. Makes you wonder is anyone in charge is sober with a functioning liver. View Quote Excellent point |
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Originally Posted By Zhukov: I don't think this got the attention it deserved from the tl;dr crowd, so let me post some salient info...
View Quote File this under “Things Not Reported on the Nightly News” for 1000. |
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They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin, 1775 |
Originally Posted By dispatch55126: I don't get russia's reactions to this as it would have been a slam dunk Goebbels/Dresden media event. With FlightRadar showing an RC-135 and AWACS in the area, they could've easy spread the news that the Muskva had been hit with the help of NATO/U.S. with significant casualties. That would've ginned up public support in russia and put the west on the defensive. Instead, they continued to lie to the point of absurdity. Never interrupt your enemy when they're making a mistake but the news and propaganda potential was a missed opportunity by the russians. Makes you wonder is anyone in charge is sober with a functioning liver. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By dispatch55126: Originally Posted By realwar: Putin races to salvage military secrets on board sunken Moskva: snip... I don't get russia's reactions to this as it would have been a slam dunk Goebbels/Dresden media event. With FlightRadar showing an RC-135 and AWACS in the area, they could've easy spread the news that the Muskva had been hit with the help of NATO/U.S. with significant casualties. That would've ginned up public support in russia and put the west on the defensive. Instead, they continued to lie to the point of absurdity. Never interrupt your enemy when they're making a mistake but the news and propaganda potential was a missed opportunity by the russians. Makes you wonder is anyone in charge is sober with a functioning liver. They're possibly trying to avoid WWIII with NATO. Instead of calling it a War, it's called a Special Operation. Denying the ship was sunk by military forces probably in order to subdue any bloodlust for revenge from the Russian public and widening the war. I just think of when Truman called the Korea war a "Police Action", and not a war in order to keep it from boiling over. I just see the parallels there. |
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Has anyone ever documented the now accepted narrative of "Russia expected to take Kiev" and, therefore, win the war in a matter of a few days?
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"People, ideas, and hardware...in that order!" Col John Boyd
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Originally Posted By doc540: Has anyone ever documented the now accepted narrative of "Russia expected to take Kiev" and, therefore, win the war in a matter of a few days? View Quote Well given how much they put into trying to take it I'd say it was the plan. Are you saying it was not on the menu? |
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Originally Posted By doc540: Has anyone ever documented the now accepted narrative of "Russia expected to take Kiev" and, therefore, win the war in a matter of a few days? View Quote What do you mean? There were captured docs early in the war showing Russia expected to take the whole of Ukraine very quickly. I don't think it was exactly 3 days (but it could have been)...I'm remembering 2 weeks or something like that. Regardless, they certainly expected to take Kiev- it's not a "narrative" Eta US intelligence says Putin expected to capture it in 2 days, and I also now remember a Russian state website that prematurely published the capture of Kiev and destruction of Ukraine's military within a couple days. |
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Originally Posted By kncook: Uh. You would force Russia to maintain massive amounts of internal security forces that can't be committed to Ukraine. If you were able to kill bombers on the runway that is definitely a huge boost but also a huge hit for Russia. Those pilots should have to risk death for firing cruise missiles and some of them need to be killed. Russia has to know Ukraine can touch them anywhere. View Quote You can tie up their forces by attacking targets that result in a strategic victory. Meaning, doing things that moves you closer to winning the war. Trains, bridges, supply convoys, etc. Shooting down a couple bombers is just a PR stunt. They can launch cruise missiles from ships, subs, coastal batteries, and other aircraft (SU-30/34/35). If you consider shooting a couple bombers down a strategic victory, please explain how. It doesn't stop Russia from shooting cruise missiles; it attacks only one delivery platform. |
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Originally Posted By m35ben: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZhWo11NGyg View Quote Now, all they need is some Hellfire to go with it! |
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Originally Posted By Houlagan72: Now, all they need is some Hellfire to go with it! View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Houlagan72: Originally Posted By m35ben: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZhWo11NGyg Now, all they need is some Hellfire to go with it! Brimstone started life as their improved version of Hellfire |
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In the real world off-campus, good marksmanship trumps good will.
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Originally Posted By kncook: Uh. You would force Russia to maintain massive amounts of internal security forces that can’t be committed to Ukraine. If you were able to kill bombers on the runway that is definitely a huge boost but also a huge hit for Russia. Those pilots should have to risk death for firing cruise missiles and some of them need to be killed. Russia has to know Ukraine can touch them anywhere. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By kncook: Originally Posted By YaNi05: Originally Posted By Bunn19: A few teams of saboteurs with MANPADs or loitering suicide drones could wreak havoc on their strategic bomber fleet. I'd love to see a bunch of their Blackjacks get taken out on landing or take off with MANPADs or blow up/set on fire on the apron with switchblade 600s or other loitering suicide drones. More strategic targets would be trains, fuel depots, munitions depots, supply convoys, etc. Cut off their ability to resupply and their war effort grinds to a halt. Uh. You would force Russia to maintain massive amounts of internal security forces that can’t be committed to Ukraine. If you were able to kill bombers on the runway that is definitely a huge boost but also a huge hit for Russia. Those pilots should have to risk death for firing cruise missiles and some of them need to be killed. Russia has to know Ukraine can touch them anywhere. That plus those bombers, especially the Blackjacks, are an irreplaceable asset of their nuclear forces so taking them out directly benefits us and the rest of the West. They've spent a lot of money upgrading those Blackjacks. It would be equivalent to us losing B-2s. |
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German reconnaissance drone "Vector" was delivered to Ukrainian troops defending Dnipro
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Originally Posted By doc540: Has anyone ever documented the now accepted narrative of "Russia expected to take Kiev" and, therefore, win the war in a matter of a few days? View Quote 15 days to capture the whole country |
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View Quote The Biden admin had predicted Kiev would fall within 48hrs. Biden has been wrong his entire life. |
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Originally Posted By realwar: The Biden admin had predicted Kiev would fall within 48hrs. Biden has been wrong his entire life. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By realwar: The Biden admin had predicted Kiev would fall within 48hrs. Biden has been wrong his entire life. And so did at least four retired generals and colonels I saw on CNN and Fox News in January and February (through mid March with some too). All "experts" but they only looked at numbers of weapons and soldiers just like a child would look at toy soldiers on the floor and determine that the most soldiers would win. They never took into account Ukrainian people and Ukrainian history - not one I saw. General Keene just said last week that he will no longer under estimate the Ukrainian people. He has started wearing a USA/ Ukraine flags lapel pin. |
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Patrick Henry is the greatest Founding Father because without him there would be no Bill of Rights!
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Originally Posted By R0N: Brimstone started life as their improved version of Hellfire View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By R0N: Originally Posted By Houlagan72: Originally Posted By m35ben: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZhWo11NGyg Now, all they need is some Hellfire to go with it! Brimstone started life as their improved version of Hellfire Shiiit! I learned two new things today. |
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Originally Posted By YaNi05: You didn't read my post. You can tie up their forces by attacking targets that result in a strategic victory. Meaning, doing things that moves you closer to winning the war. Trains, bridges, supply convoys, etc. Shooting down a couple bombers is just a PR stunt. They can launch cruise missiles from ships, subs, coastal batteries, and other aircraft (SU-30/34/35). If you consider shooting a couple bombers down a strategic victory, please explain how. It doesn't stop Russia from shooting cruise missiles; it attacks only one delivery platform. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By YaNi05: Originally Posted By kncook: Uh. You would force Russia to maintain massive amounts of internal security forces that can't be committed to Ukraine. If you were able to kill bombers on the runway that is definitely a huge boost but also a huge hit for Russia. Those pilots should have to risk death for firing cruise missiles and some of them need to be killed. Russia has to know Ukraine can touch them anywhere. You can tie up their forces by attacking targets that result in a strategic victory. Meaning, doing things that moves you closer to winning the war. Trains, bridges, supply convoys, etc. Shooting down a couple bombers is just a PR stunt. They can launch cruise missiles from ships, subs, coastal batteries, and other aircraft (SU-30/34/35). If you consider shooting a couple bombers down a strategic victory, please explain how. It doesn't stop Russia from shooting cruise missiles; it attacks only one delivery platform. Like I said before. It’s only a part of a larger sabotage op. It doesn’t take a giant amount of troops to do sabotage in Russia….but will cause Russia to hold and secure ALL major logistics and military infrastructure. Those 10 teams of guys attacking targets through Russia can in turn cause Russia to remove THOUSANDS of troops/security forces off the battlefield and keep them at internal positions. Those bombers are super valuable. They would have to commit a lot to protecting them after they are hit. That’s a huge result for little cost. |
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Originally Posted By doc540: Has anyone ever documented the now accepted narrative of "Russia expected to take Kiev" and, therefore, win the war in a matter of a few days? View Quote They sent police units with riot shields and riot helmets & batons in prison trucks! OMOH or whatever they call them. What else do you need to know? They could have done it if Zelinsky hadn’t turned down cowardly Biden’s offer of evacuation. ‘ I don’t need a ride I need ammo’ That fucked up their timetable, that and Ukrainians being bad asses. |
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I've been battling some internal demons this week, so far I'm 0 for 6.
كافر. |
Originally Posted By realwar: The Biden admin had predicted Kiev would fall within 48hrs. Biden has been wrong his entire life. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By realwar: The Biden admin had predicted Kiev would fall within 48hrs. Biden has been wrong his entire life. Yeah, but to be fair the Intel guys told him that and most of us didn't think much different. I mean you're right Biden is almost always wrong, so this isn't an exception. I'm just saying in this case I can't really blame him. Did you predict it would go like it has? Good on you if you did, you're in the minority lol. |
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