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Posted: 10/18/2022 11:38:33 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By spydercomonkey: Sort of circling back to guns for a moment. Based on the rifle combat Ukraine has been getting into, videos seem to show either close range gunfights, or long range sniping often with thermals. However I imagine most of this is due to those being the two types of shootings where videoing the action is really possible (whats a 400yd gunfight look like on a go pro but shooting at the horizon..) So my question is, for anyone who may be in the know - are magnified optics useful in Ukraine? Or is most of the daytime gunfighting fairly close range / fast where a RDS is more practical? Seeing if there are lessons learned in Ukraine that we could apply to our own firearms setups. One of the harder truths for gun guys is that, in a conventional war, individual weapons aren't particularly important. The battlefield is dominated by air power and artillery. The infantry fight revolves around crew served weapons. Individual weapons become most relevant in self defense and in close quarters type situations. History tells us the overwhelming majority of infantry engagements happen within 250M. This has been accepted as true since WWII. This isn't to say troops shouldn't be equipped for contact beyond that distance, but equipment choices for scenarios that might happen shouldn't be made at the expense of readiness for scenarios that will happen. From a squad/platoon level perspective, I think the DMR concept is still valid. One or two guys should have the capability to reach out just in case. For the individual though, I think a standard carbine with a RDS is pretty much optimal. FWIW, I'm still skeptical that any LPVOs are durable enough for widespread battlefield use. Company or higher level specialists? Yes. DMRs? Maybe. Line joes? LOL no. |
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USA
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Posted: 10/18/2022 11:38:42 AM EDT
[#2]
Conventional wisdom says:Reuters | Vladimir Putin is safe in power for now, but risks lie ahead, sources say
There is a long winter ahead and things are going to change IMHO. |
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USA
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Posted: 10/18/2022 11:41:11 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Swampgrass: I thought a while back Israel said they were in when Iran started sending shit ? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Swampgrass: Originally Posted By stgdz: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
And the Israelis won't lift a finger to help. I thought a while back Israel said they were in when Iran started sending shit ? Few days ago. Israel want to test their missile defense systems against the Iranian stuff. |
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USA
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Posted: 10/18/2022 11:47:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: HIPPO]
[#4]
These weapons could be used to strike well beyond Ukraine. |
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Posted: 10/18/2022 11:50:53 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fervid_dryfire: Who is that, some Russia propaganda mouthpiece? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fervid_dryfire: Originally Posted By HIPPO: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: lol. Dimitry said yesterday he heard rumors of this, so I didn't post because they were rumors, turns out he had a good source apparently.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FfGIPo7XoAAUdVn?format=jpg&name=small Hope he gets his wig split. Who is that, some Russia propaganda mouthpiece? Igor Girkin Strelkov Yes and no, he is a Russian FSB Agent war criminal that some consider the architect of the 2014 Russian takeover on the Donbass. He was relieved of command and recalled back to Russia after the shoot down of the Malaysian airliner MH17. Lately he’s been very critical of the military war effort on his Telegram channel. He’s very pro Russian but thinks they aren’t trying hard or brutal enough. Word is he got arrested and put back in uniform after the kremlin got tired of his criticism. He is either on trial or has been tried in the Netherlands for murder in absentia for the shoot down of MH17 Ukrainians are crowd sourcing a bounty on his head for capture to turn him over to face justice. |
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Posted: 10/18/2022 11:51:16 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Article: https://defence-blog.com/russia-lost-its-most-advanced-air-defense-system-in-ukraine/ I think it simply proves that Russia never had a counter to HARM missiles, or a real ability to intercept rounds like Himars. Its interesting, the wording however makes it sound like the system was on the move/displacing, meaning that it was not actually operating. |
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USA
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Posted: 10/18/2022 11:53:23 AM EDT
[#7]
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Posted: 10/18/2022 11:55:31 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO: These weapons could be used to strike well beyond Ukraine. Eastern Poland? That's a non-threat. |
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Posted: 10/18/2022 11:55:39 AM EDT
[#9]
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Posted: 10/18/2022 11:57:16 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Swampgrass: I thought a while back Israel said they were in when Iran started sending shit ? That was one Minister (defense?) making a comment, and not the Prime Minister. |
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Posted: 10/18/2022 11:58:14 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Harlikwin: Its interesting, the wording however makes it sound like the system was on the move/displacing, meaning that it was not actually operating. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Harlikwin: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Article: https://defence-blog.com/russia-lost-its-most-advanced-air-defense-system-in-ukraine/ I think it simply proves that Russia never had a counter to HARM missiles, or a real ability to intercept rounds like Himars. Its interesting, the wording however makes it sound like the system was on the move/displacing, meaning that it was not actually operating. Certainly a possibility as well, but such high value items usually come with multiple short range air defense systems that are supposed to blunt an attack on it while it's in transport. I would have expected multiple TOR units with this system as we've seen in multiple satellite photos with the systems in Crimea. |
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Posted: 10/18/2022 11:59:46 AM EDT
[#12]
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USA
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Posted: 10/18/2022 12:02:30 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bassgasm: Eastern Poland? That's a non-threat. Until you piss them off. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 10/18/2022 12:02:52 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO:
Makes you wonder about the dirt and leverage russia has over Israeli politicians… Probably nothing, it's Israel just watching out for itself. |
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Posted: 10/18/2022 12:07:00 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
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Posted: 10/18/2022 12:10:41 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mal_means_bad: Russia has around 900,000 railcars, so 10,000 sidelined isn't too bad but about a quarter are "at risk" Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mal_means_bad: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Yea, I think this just points out how sanctions slowly creep in in some cases to cause much bigger problems for the sanctioned country later on. |
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Posted: 10/18/2022 12:11:12 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M-1975:
.22LR mini 1919 and a camera stabilizer would be havoc. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 10/18/2022 12:13:17 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bassgasm: One of the harder truths for gun guys is that, in a conventional war, individual weapons aren't particularly important. The battlefield is dominated by air power and artillery. The infantry fight revolves around crew served weapons. Individual weapons become most relevant in self defense and in close quarters type situations. History tells us the overwhelming majority of infantry engagements happen within 250M. This has been accepted as true since WWII. This isn't to say troops shouldn't be equipped for contact beyond that distance, but equipment choices for scenarios that might happen shouldn't be made at the expense of readiness for scenarios that will happen. From a squad/platoon level perspective, I think the DMR concept is still valid. One or two guys should have the capability to reach out just in case. For the individual though, I think a standard carbine with a RDS is pretty much optimal. FWIW, I'm still skeptical that any LPVOs are durable enough for widespread battlefield use. Company or higher level specialists? Yes. DMRs? Maybe. Line joes? LOL no. As a shooter the rifle and optics was very important. But that was because I was camping out in a over watch where I am looking for individuals or small party targets. Outside of that realm, I 100% agree. Crew serve, and the ability to call in Arty-mortars-fastmovers-rotary was the game changers on the battlefield during contact. IMO, I would not setup my in (America) civilian rifle based purely off battlefield setups. Base your setup on what you will use it for, your expectations of threats, your environment. Not to say that one doesnt use the battlefield to validate the durability of a weapon or optic, that is different. Running something that is proven is preferred. IMO, a RDS is going to be plenty for vast majority. For folks with stigmatisms, shop around find what your eyes like. But I also agree on LPVOs for your line guys, I dont think its vital and I too have concerns with long term durability in regards to everyday deployment use. |
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Posted: 10/18/2022 12:15:05 PM EDT
[#19]
Videos of the warheads in the tweets below.
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Posted: 10/18/2022 12:20:29 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mal_means_bad: Russia has around 900,000 railcars, so 10,000 sidelined isn't too bad but about a quarter are "at risk" Given this is Russia, how bad does it have to be to be deadlined? If it still rolls it's good, if it derails it's down? |
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USA
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Posted: 10/18/2022 12:23:42 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bassgasm: Eastern Poland? That's a non-threat. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bassgasm: Originally Posted By HIPPO: These weapons could be used to strike well beyond Ukraine. Eastern Poland? That's a non-threat. That is based off of the assumption that they would be based in Belgorod. Put them in Smolensk or Belarus and 1000 km looks very different. |
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USA
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Posted: 10/18/2022 12:26:34 PM EDT
[#22]
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/18/2022 12:30:51 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By panthermark:Bottom line is that in hindsight, EVERY administration COULD have done more, but there is no need to point fingers because AT THE TIME, no one knew how things would turn out. (You know, like how training and equipping the Afghans turned out to be beyond useless). If you want someone to blame, his name is Vladimir Putin. /thread Quoted, not because I have anything to add, but because it needs to be said again. |
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Posted: 10/18/2022 12:34:41 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
This is a MUCH bigger thing than most realize. A lot of their bearings were FAG/SKF and they will NOT get any replacements in the future. The chinese stuff is SHIT and even the own domestic crap is barely usable ( until it shits the bed, usually pretty quickly ) No trains running, no supplies to the front. |
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Posted: 10/18/2022 12:34:52 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By M-1975:
Lots of 1950s cars parked there. UA has a lot of old cars? |
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Posted: 10/18/2022 12:39:01 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Staying at pretty low altitude their entire flight, they are physically smaller than a man and made of some composites and plastic, which makes them difficult to detect on Soviet SAM radar systems. I figured russians would adapt eventually. Now Ukranians have to adapt again. Hopefully they can keep up with our help. They need some new kind of air defense pronto. It seems like a computer controlled auto cannon or machine gun would be a good fit for this, provided the computer can somehow see the drone. |
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USA
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Posted: 10/18/2022 12:40:01 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HIPPO:
Yeah I doubt the interception rate is even close to that. They definitely need better anti drone / air defense. But if it was true, that kinda goes opposite to the whole "they're targeting innocent civilian apartments", since 88% of the drones are knocked out of the sky hitting whatever they land on, instead of its target. |
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Posted: 10/18/2022 12:40:29 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By 4xGM300m: I guess they have enough pilots, many ejected and got rescued, some planes were destroyed on the ground, some planes made it back to base and were written off as unrepairable. I'm wondering if they might have bought some Iranian pilots along with the drones. Sorta like a daily deals bundle or something. |
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Posted: 10/18/2022 12:40:54 PM EDT
[#29]
Ukraine moves to cut diplomatic ties with Iran over supplies of suicide drones to Russia
 Ukraine moves to cut diplomatic ties with Iran over supplies of suicide drones to Russia |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 10/18/2022 12:42:13 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Internally the wheels coming off the Russian war machine |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 10/18/2022 12:43:09 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Article: https://defence-blog.com/russia-lost-its-most-advanced-air-defense-system-in-ukraine/ I think it simply proves that Russia never had a counter to HARM missiles, or a real ability to intercept rounds like Himars. |
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Posted: 10/18/2022 12:45:49 PM EDT
[#32]
Originally Posted By veritas8985: Until you piss them off. I think you mis-understand my position. Originally Posted By HIPPO: That is based off of the assumption that they would be based in Belgorod. Put them in Smolensk or Belarus and 1000 km looks very different. And then what? The Russians could fire their shitty Iranian ballistic missiles with conventional warheads into Poland or any other NATO nation, but they are unlikely to achieve any meaningful strategic victory in the process. On the other hand, sending those missiles into Poland is almost certain to receive a response of Tomahawks and/or B2s flying into Russia with far more significant effects on target. The Russians have done a lot of stupid stuff, but firing those missiles anywhere outside of Ukraine would be a level of "hold my wodka" well beyond anything they've shown so far. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 10/18/2022 12:46:30 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: I figured russians would adapt eventually. Now Ukranians have to adapt again. Hopefully they can keep up with our help. They need some new kind of air defense pronto. It seems like a computer controlled auto cannon or machine gun would be a good fit for this, provided the computer can somehow see the drone. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By stone-age: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest: Staying at pretty low altitude their entire flight, they are physically smaller than a man and made of some composites and plastic, which makes them difficult to detect on Soviet SAM radar systems. I figured russians would adapt eventually. Now Ukranians have to adapt again. Hopefully they can keep up with our help. They need some new kind of air defense pronto. It seems like a computer controlled auto cannon or machine gun would be a good fit for this, provided the computer can somehow see the drone. Wonder when we will see German 88's with short fuses being deployed |
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Posted: 10/18/2022 12:48:46 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mal_means_bad: Russia has around 900,000 railcars, so 10,000 sidelined isn't too bad but about a quarter are "at risk" Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mal_means_bad: Originally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
Does Russia have 900k actual, serviceable rail cars, or do they have 900k rail cars in the same sense that they "have" 87k or whatever tanks? |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/18/2022 12:49:30 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Billy_Ringo: Maybe the real question is whether Putin cares more about the Russian Empire or Putin's Empire and his personal legacy? If it's the Russian Empire than I agree with basically everything you said. If it's Putin's Empire, then: Over the past month we've seen Putin, the mil-bloggers and Russian TV talking heads point the finger and place more and more blame on the poor execution/ineptitude of the Russian military, including the poor performance of the mobilization. Wagner head Prigozhin has become more vocal and spoken out against the poor performance of the Russian military as well as the DPR and LPR fighting forces. Arrests/detention of the mil-bloggers to reduce their influence. And the recent uptick in comments about fighting NATO/the West instead of just Ukraine. Throughout this war Putin has slipped in several comments pertaining to "what I've been told" thus leaving room for his subordinates to be accused of not providing him with a full picture of the situation. If Putin is looking for an off-ramp, he would deflect blame away from himself and towards others. Raise the public image of those presumably loyal to him, (ie. Prigozhin), silence popular dissent (ie. the mil-bloggers), lay claim that Mother Russia was the victim up against a massive power aligned against it----thus he did all he could but others failed him and they should be blamed--but not himself. And, as far as Putin doubling/quadrupling down by keeping his foot on the pedal via more conscripts to the front, continued nuclear threats and bombing civilian centers, etc.--what else could he do? If he started backing off it would only reduce his stature internally by perceived weakness and externally by reducing the Russian threat of more carnage. And then---there's the West. Are western powers more interested in simply unseating Putin to deal with whoever comes next with a weakened Russian and ending this war in the shorter term? Or---smash the Russian economy and military to a point of no return but in the shorter term inflict greater losses on Ukraine? I happen to think Putin is looking for and setting up an off-ramp to give him some remote chance of retaining his power. But that's just my opinion and I've been wrong many a time before. Both you and Capta bring up excellent points and analysis. Feels very accurate, at least based on what is possible to know about Putin and the inner workings of Russia. Someone will be taking the fall for this debacle for sure. I'm betting Putin would like an off-ramp at this point but he has to try "everything" at least for the internal optics if not to actually see for himself if Russia is in fact feckless against the Western armed Ukraine. Putin will most likely keep putting blame on specific military leaders rather than the dysfunctional culture in the Russian military. If Putin pushed too hard, there may be some pushback and he wants to avoid the 1917 type revolution, which is exactly what Russia needs. |
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Posted: 10/18/2022 12:49:33 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kncook: .22LR mini 1919 and a camera stabilizer would be havoc. I think a .22 rf would run too dirty. But other than that, yeah, it could follow trenches and just spray the russian forces right out of the trench. They wouldn't even be safe in foxholes. A foxhole would just make them stay put long enough to get shot. A couple of those things working during a Ukrainian infantry push would be amazing. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/18/2022 12:50:24 PM EDT
[#37]
It seems like these Iranian drones are hard to be picked by radars or IR seekers in manpads.
What about microphones? The British used giant hearing tubes to detect the approaching German bombers, can a fast drone be equipped with two or three microphones and use them to triangulate and intercept the incoming slow moving drones? In the videos I’ve seen they they all make a distinct loud noise. |
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MN, USA
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Posted: 10/18/2022 12:52:23 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bassgasm: I think you mis-understand my position. And then what? The Russians could fire their shitty Iranian ballistic missiles with conventional warheads into Poland or any other NATO nation, but they are unlikely to achieve any meaningful strategic victory in the process. On the other hand, sending those missiles into Poland is almost certain to receive a response of Tomahawks and/or B2s flying into Russia with far more significant effects on target. The Russians have done a lot of stupid stuff, but firing those missiles anywhere outside of Ukraine would be a level of "hold my wodka" well beyond anything they've shown so far. They hit our shit from 100's of miles away https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Martyr_Soleimani |
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Posted: 10/18/2022 12:52:34 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Chaingun: Lots of 1950s cars parked there. UA has a lot of old cars? Ladas, Moskvitch, Zoporozsh, etc looked the same for decades. Even the ones that continued to be produced post-Soviet Union. |
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Posted: 10/18/2022 12:52:44 PM EDT
[#40]
Sky's Military Analyst, Professor Michael Clarke looks at how Russia is deploying swarms of drones to attack Ukrainian cities.
 Ukraine War: News blackout means 'something big is going on' |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/18/2022 12:57:25 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By R0N: That backside peeling of the armor makes lit look like something other than an ATGM hit Isnt that skirt just thin metal filled with styrofoam for water crossing buoyancy? Inside the big hole is probably the little hole from the shaped charge? Or do you think is was something else totally? |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/18/2022 1:00:30 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
https://www.militarytimes.com/congress/2022/10/17/lawmakers-seek-emergency-powers-for-pentagons-ukraine-war-contracting/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=tw_militarytimes I say "hell yeah brother". But nothing about drones or anti-drones? |
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Posted: 10/18/2022 1:00:44 PM EDT
[#43]
 What would nuclear war look like in Ukraine between Russia and NATO? |
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Posted: 10/18/2022 1:01:20 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By weptek911: That was one Minister (defense?) making a comment, and not the Prime Minister. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By weptek911: Originally Posted By Swampgrass: I thought a while back Israel said they were in when Iran started sending shit ? That was one Minister (defense?) making a comment, and not the Prime Minister. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 10/18/2022 1:01:30 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Bassgasm: I think you mis-understand my position. And then what? The Russians could fire their shitty Iranian ballistic missiles with conventional warheads into Poland or any other NATO nation, but they are unlikely to achieve any meaningful strategic victory in the process. On the other hand, sending those missiles into Poland is almost certain to receive a response of Tomahawks and/or B2s flying into Russia with far more significant effects on target. The Russians have done a lot of stupid stuff, but firing those missiles anywhere outside of Ukraine would be a level of "hold my wodka" well beyond anything they've shown so far. Can't see them getting long range missiles to forward deploy and expanding their options. These are going to be safely launched from deeper in Russia to avoid UA taking them out. They aren't quite that dumb, however dumb enough they will still waste some on an apartment complex in Kyiv |
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Posted: 10/18/2022 1:02:13 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Certainly true. Many people forgot about what Russia is all about or maybe more likely many of us (including me) hoped they had moved beyond their Soviet mentality. Very naive I admit. Also, keep in mind that the democrats totally flipped on Russia "unexpectedly" around the year 2000. Prior to that, especially during the Soviet days, our democrat friends' were all up the Russian's asses with friendly glasnost and Gorbasims, even actively working with the Soviets/KGB to undermine Reagan. Then after the '91 collapse and no more commie-ing by the Russians, the demo-commies really turned their backs on Russia like a jilted lover. The simpleminded Republicans didnt seem to notice this sudden change in the democommie-Russian relationship and many stupids on the right began to like/respect Putin's Russia. Probably equal parts due to Putin's fake propaganda about a "Christian country fighting the globohome"...and the other part liking what the democommies hated. Its all very stupid. If the Russians were still the Soviets and pretending to be fighting for World Communism (like China) they would be zero help coming from them for Ukraine. I just wish that Republicans would re-evaluate their feelings about Russia, albeit 20 years behind the democrats. The democrats didnt start hating Russia because Russia "became" a totalitarian regime hell-bent on world domination but rather because Russia became NATIONALISTIC about it. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER: Originally Posted By Capta: Thing is, the conservative movement did forget the threat of the Russian Empire. Or worse, they were co-opted by Russian influence operations to some degree or another due to domestic political hatreds. I was one of those conservatives. So were several other people here. We got better. The only political operatives here are low-post-count trolls who come in to try to slide the discussion in Russia’s direction. We deal with them rather harshly. Certainly true. Many people forgot about what Russia is all about or maybe more likely many of us (including me) hoped they had moved beyond their Soviet mentality. Very naive I admit. Also, keep in mind that the democrats totally flipped on Russia "unexpectedly" around the year 2000. Prior to that, especially during the Soviet days, our democrat friends' were all up the Russian's asses with friendly glasnost and Gorbasims, even actively working with the Soviets/KGB to undermine Reagan. Then after the '91 collapse and no more commie-ing by the Russians, the demo-commies really turned their backs on Russia like a jilted lover. The simpleminded Republicans didnt seem to notice this sudden change in the democommie-Russian relationship and many stupids on the right began to like/respect Putin's Russia. Probably equal parts due to Putin's fake propaganda about a "Christian country fighting the globohome"...and the other part liking what the democommies hated. Its all very stupid. If the Russians were still the Soviets and pretending to be fighting for World Communism (like China) they would be zero help coming from them for Ukraine. I just wish that Republicans would re-evaluate their feelings about Russia, albeit 20 years behind the democrats. The democrats didnt start hating Russia because Russia "became" a totalitarian regime hell-bent on world domination but rather because Russia became NATIONALISTIC about it. Good summary. The number of conservatives/Republicans who are either "neutral" or favorable to Russia right now is appallingly high. My parents despised the Soviets as I was growing up in the 80s, so I thought all Republicans did- and always would... |
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Posted: 10/18/2022 1:02:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: dillydilly]
[#47]
 Failed To Load Title Love this beat! This too!  ???? ?????? - ???? ?? ? ????? ???? (Meh Remix) |
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Posted: 10/18/2022 1:02:54 PM EDT
[#48]
 Ukrainian drone drops bomb on Russian soldier sending his helmet flying Ukrainian drone drops bomb on Russian soldier sending his helmet flying |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/18/2022 1:05:04 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest:
It just plain sucks to be a wounded Russian. |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 10/18/2022 1:08:15 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AlmightyTallest: More footage coming in.
With the metal peeling outward, it DOES look like the explosion was inside. Although with an alleged 1000Kg bomb...who knows. (I'm sure actual experts will know.) |
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