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Posted: 10/1/2018 1:00:26 PM EDT
This use of big data to pull together information on food satiety, nutrient density, and "keto score" to inform diets is amazing. Info is grouped by title, then an image (for the TL;DR crowd), followed by a link that takes you to a web page that includes some data embedded behind the dots. I'm going to chew on this a bit before posting anything else.
Plant Based Data Satiety vs Keto 
https://public.tableau.com/profile/marty.kendall7139# Keto Score vs Nutrient Density 
https://public.tableau.com/profile/marty.kendall7139# Satiety vs Nutrient Density 
https://public.tableau.com/profile/marty.kendall7139# Carnivore Data Keto Score vs Nutrient Density 
https://public.tableau.com/profile/marty.kendall7139# Satiety vs Nutrient Density 
https://public.tableau.com/profile/marty.kendall7139# Satiety Score vs Keto Score 
https://public.tableau.com/profile/marty.kendall7139# Omnivore Data Keto Score vs Nutrient Density 
https://public.tableau.com/profile/marty.kendall7139# Satiety vs Keto Score 
https://public.tableau.com/profile/marty.kendall7139# Satiety vs Nutrient Density 
https://public.tableau.com/profile/marty.kendall7139# Edited to improve organization and delete duplicate tables. |
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Posted: 10/1/2018 1:33:30 PM EDT
[#1]
Huh. Yeah gonna take a while to "digest" all that.
 Makes you want to reevaluate some diet choices though at first glance. |
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Posted: 10/1/2018 1:54:50 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Huh. Yeah gonna take a while to "digest" all that. Makes you want to reevaluate some diet choices though at first glance. In terms of meals per day, 2 meals per day = lowest caloric intake IF those meals were breakfast and lunch. Worst 2-meal combo was breakfast and dinner. Lunch/Dinner somewhere in between. Also, if you eat three meals per day, eating 11% of total daily calories as protein at breakfast was correlated with lowest caloric intake i.e. 2000 calories per day total intake means 220 calories of protein (54g) at breakfast. Apparently he's gone all big data on MyFitnessPal inputs. Pretty cool stuff. |
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Posted: 10/1/2018 2:31:42 PM EDT
[#3]
I hate it when people post crappy groups like this. If you can't shoot any better than that at 100yards, then give up.
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Posted: 10/1/2018 3:04:53 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, I've seen some other interesting stuff this system has put out about the impact of macro ratios and number of meals per day on caloric intake. Short answer - best for weight loss is plenty of protein and fiber. You can do high protein/high fat and be successful, but choose your fats carefully and keep them tied to protein in whole food form. In terms of meals per day, 2 meals per day = lowest caloric intake IF those meals were breakfast and lunch. Worst 2-meal combo was breakfast and dinner. Lunch/Dinner somewhere in between. Also, if you eat three meals per day, eating 11% of total daily calories as protein at breakfast was correlated with lowest caloric intake i.e. 2000 calories per day total intake means 220 calories of protein (54g) at breakfast. Apparently he's gone all big data on MyFitnessPal inputs. Pretty cool stuff. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Huh. Yeah gonna take a while to "digest" all that. Makes you want to reevaluate some diet choices though at first glance. In terms of meals per day, 2 meals per day = lowest caloric intake IF those meals were breakfast and lunch. Worst 2-meal combo was breakfast and dinner. Lunch/Dinner somewhere in between. Also, if you eat three meals per day, eating 11% of total daily calories as protein at breakfast was correlated with lowest caloric intake i.e. 2000 calories per day total intake means 220 calories of protein (54g) at breakfast. Apparently he's gone all big data on MyFitnessPal inputs. Pretty cool stuff. I'm not real familiar with some of those high nutrient, satiating, low carb veggies either. May need to try some. |
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Posted: 10/1/2018 3:45:54 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Huh, that's fascinating. Makes me want to try IF with breakfast and lunch, instead of lunch and dinner. I could see that it would definitely cut down on total calories since I'm not usually very hungry in the mornings. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Huh, that's fascinating. Makes me want to try IF with breakfast and lunch, instead of lunch and dinner. I could see that it would definitely cut down on total calories since I'm not usually very hungry in the mornings. So much for the 6 small meals per day crowd 
If someone logged less than 100% of their goal intake for the day, it means that they ate less than their goal intake. If they recorded more than 100% of their goal, it indicates that they were not able to keep their intake below their target. The data analysis suggests that: If you ate more than three meals a day, you’re likely to consume more calories than average. One meal a day (OMAD) seems to help you eat less than average. However, the optimum daily meal frequency appears to be two meals if you are looking to maintain a sustained calorie deficit. 
This is population data and not necessarily prescriptive, but it provides some great material for research hypotheses as well as science-based n=1 personal experimenting. Link to main site: https://optimisingnutrition.com/ |
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Posted: 10/1/2018 7:40:49 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Huh. Yeah gonna take a while to "digest" all that. Makes you want to reevaluate some diet choices though at first glance. Leafy greens, shellfish, whitefish, and organ meats - liver of all types - and rare clearly the things to eat for those wanting to get leaner. Grains (especially processed or combined with fat - cakes, cookies, etc), nuts, and cheese are clearly things to avoid or minimize. Pretty close to the original hypothesis of paleo. Just add liver and cut nuts. Of the keto favorites, butter and cream don't do very well. Both are very bottom left. |
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Posted: 10/2/2018 9:23:54 AM EDT
[#7]
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Posted: 10/2/2018 11:34:15 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think that the last chart in the first post has the best info. How to get the most nutrients for the fewest calories if you're trying to lean out (top right) OR what foods have a lot of nutrients that you can eat a lot of if you're trying to gain mass (high left). Leafy greens, shellfish, whitefish, and organ meats - liver of all types - and rare clearly the things to eat for those wanting to get leaner. Grains (especially processed or combined with fat - cakes, cookies, etc), nuts, and cheese are clearly things to avoid or minimize. Pretty close to the original hypothesis of paleo. Just add liver and cut nuts. Of the keto favorites, butter and cream don't do very well. Both are very bottom left. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Huh. Yeah gonna take a while to "digest" all that. Makes you want to reevaluate some diet choices though at first glance. Leafy greens, shellfish, whitefish, and organ meats - liver of all types - and rare clearly the things to eat for those wanting to get leaner. Grains (especially processed or combined with fat - cakes, cookies, etc), nuts, and cheese are clearly things to avoid or minimize. Pretty close to the original hypothesis of paleo. Just add liver and cut nuts. Of the keto favorites, butter and cream don't do very well. Both are very bottom left. |
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Posted: 10/2/2018 11:37:03 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hate it when people post crappy groups like this. If you can't shoot any better than that at 100yards, then give up. Thanks a lot 
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Posted: 10/2/2018 2:27:45 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah, looks like I need to eat asparagus more often ( I love it, just don't buy it too often) and see if I can track down endives. I need to study the meat a little more and consider changing things up. Not sure if I'm willing to eat liver regularly... If that's too much, a couple of slices of braunschweiger. You could even dice it into eggs or chicken/tuna salad to cover the taste. Beef liver is a bit stronger, so burying it under onions caramelized in bacon grease is helpful. |
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Posted: 10/2/2018 3:07:31 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
4-8 oz of chicken livers, dredged in egg then almond flour and Old Bay, fried in the fat of your choice for 4-6 minutes, then dipped in a sauce of avocado oil mayo + chipotle & lime or Old Bay or Buffalo sauce. If that's too much, a couple of slices of braunschweiger. You could even dice it into eggs or chicken/tuna salad to cover the taste. Beef liver is a bit stronger, so burying it under onions caramelized in bacon grease is helpful. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yeah, looks like I need to eat asparagus more often ( I love it, just don't buy it too often) and see if I can track down endives. I need to study the meat a little more and consider changing things up. Not sure if I'm willing to eat liver regularly... If that's too much, a couple of slices of braunschweiger. You could even dice it into eggs or chicken/tuna salad to cover the taste. Beef liver is a bit stronger, so burying it under onions caramelized in bacon grease is helpful. |
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Posted: 10/2/2018 3:14:48 PM EDT
[#12]
Braunschweiger definitely takes some getting used to.
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Posted: 10/2/2018 4:02:34 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've done beef and didn't care for it (and that's saying something because I'm one step away from being a human garbage disposal). I'll try chicken though, this weekend maybe. I don't necessarily enjoy the beef liver, but I didn't always enjoy salad either. If you have a meat grinder, you might look at grinding some liver into a hamburger. It doesn't take much to get the benefits - a couple oz. |
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Posted: 10/2/2018 4:04:00 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Braunschweiger definitely takes some getting used to.  creamy. Then I'm like  And on to  a little bit, but I eat 2/3 of a little round slice and give the rest to my dog who loves it. Then I do it one more time. All over and done with, Vitamin A/choline/etc inbound.
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Posted: 10/2/2018 6:42:41 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Grass fed is more mild than grain fed. Calf is more mild than beef. Chicken is more mild than either. I buy mine from the same place I get pastured eggs. I eat 5-6oz most weeks. I don't necessarily enjoy the beef liver, but I didn't always enjoy salad either. If you have a meat grinder, you might look at grinding some liver into a hamburger. It doesn't take much to get the benefits - a couple oz. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I've done beef and didn't care for it (and that's saying something because I'm one step away from being a human garbage disposal). I'll try chicken though, this weekend maybe. I don't necessarily enjoy the beef liver, but I didn't always enjoy salad either. If you have a meat grinder, you might look at grinding some liver into a hamburger. It doesn't take much to get the benefits - a couple oz. |
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Posted: 10/2/2018 7:47:40 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hmm...I don't have a meat grinder but I could chop it up and mix with some ground beef. |
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Posted: 10/3/2018 10:01:47 AM EDT
[#17]
Adding endives, chicken livers and beet greens to grocery list.
I used to love liverwurst as a kid. Haven't had it in years. Will try to get some. |
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Posted: 10/3/2018 10:47:21 AM EDT
[#18]
I have no idea how to interpret those charts.
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Posted: 10/3/2018 12:05:48 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have no idea how to interpret those charts. If you're trying to lean out, more satiety is better If you're trying to gain weight, you may want to look at more lower satiety foods If you're committed to Keto, higher keto score is better. The guy has some algorithms that crunch out the score and there aren't many details on his web site. As far as I can tell: -Nutrient Density is based on micronutrient content per calorie -Satiety is derived from data mining food logs in my fitness pal and similar apps and associating consumption of a given food with total caloric intake -Keto Score is based on the insulin that the food creates i.e. the more fat and/or fiber per calorie AND the lower the carb count (and to a lesser extent protein, especially dairy protein) the higher the score |
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Posted: 10/3/2018 3:14:58 PM EDT
[#20]
Is it just me, or is alfalfa stupid high on satiety and nutrition?
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Posted: 10/3/2018 4:20:13 PM EDT
[#21]
Am I understanding this right that his theories about meal timing and number of meals is based solely on peoples' self filled diaries on MFP, with all diaries assumed to be complete? If so, seems to be a HUGE source of error there when claiming that breakfast/lunch IF is better than lunch/dinner, without being sure the breakfast/lunch data points didn't just forget to punch in data for dinner
Also, curious on the metric for satiety. I didn't dig through his site, just looked at the JPGs of the charts |
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Posted: 10/3/2018 6:58:00 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Am I understanding this right that his theories about meal timing and number of meals is based solely on peoples' self filled diaries on MFP, with all diaries assumed to be complete? If so, seems to be a HUGE source of error there when claiming that breakfast/lunch IF is better than lunch/dinner, without being sure the breakfast/lunch data points didn't just forget to punch in data for dinner Also, curious on the metric for satiety. I didn't dig through his site, just looked at the JPGs of the charts |
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Posted: 10/3/2018 7:01:07 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is it just me, or is alfalfa stupid high on satiety and nutrition? I just don't know how he calculated the number. Pros and cons to both ways. |
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Posted: 10/3/2018 7:09:31 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah, looks like I need to eat asparagus more often ( I love it, just don't buy it too often) and see if I can track down endives. I need to study the meat a little more and consider changing things up. Not sure if I'm willing to eat liver regularly... |
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Posted: 10/5/2018 6:13:03 PM EDT
[#25]
Joe Rogan has had a couple of great nutrition discussions on his podcast recently. I'll put the youtube links below:
1175: Chris Kresser and Dr. Joel Kahn debate the benefits/drawbacks of Omnivorous Diets (especially ancestral) and Vegan Diets. Great give and take and plenty of science.  Failed To Load Title 1176: Dom D'Augustino and Layne Norton debate keto vs higher carb/traditional diets, especially as regards bodybuilding/strength training  Failed To Load Title And Chris Masterjohn critiques the Kresser/Kahn debate  Kresser/Kahn Vegan Debate on Joe Rogan: My Post-Game Analysis |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 6:11:38 PM EDT
[#26]
Ok I got some chicken liver. We'll see....
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Posted: 10/6/2018 7:35:54 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ok I got some chicken liver. We'll see.... |
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Posted: 10/6/2018 8:05:12 PM EDT
[#28]
I mixed up some braunschweiger with cream cheese and spices. It's MUCH easier to get down that way.
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Posted: 10/6/2018 8:39:25 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I mixed up some braunschweiger with cream cheese and spices. It's MUCH easier to get down that way. 
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Posted: 10/6/2018 8:48:35 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is my base recipe. https://www.everydaymaven.com/crispy-spiced-chicken-livers/ Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Ok I got some chicken liver. We'll see.... |
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Posted: 10/13/2018 9:27:09 AM EDT
[#31]
Is there a definition of how "satiety" is measured in these graphs? I was totally confused at seeing all of the leafy greens listed as more satiating than any protein or fat but when I followed that chart's link and saw that hovering over a point gives the measurements used, I realized I was reading the chart correctly and the leafy greens had measurements of 1.0+ while protein and fat foods were all < 1.0.
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Posted: 10/13/2018 10:01:08 AM EDT
[#32]
Alfalfa, endive and olive salad with sardines and eggs.
That's interesting info. Thanks for posting. |
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Posted: 10/13/2018 11:09:22 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Alfalfa, endive and olive salad with sardines and eggs. That's interesting info. Thanks for posting. |
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Posted: 10/13/2018 3:54:57 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is there a definition of how "satiety" is measured in these graphs? I was totally confused at seeing all of the leafy greens listed as more satiating than any protein or fat but when I followed that chart's link and saw that hovering over a point gives the measurements used, I realized I was reading the chart correctly and the leafy greens had measurements of 1.0+ while protein and fat foods were all < 1.0. |
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Posted: 10/13/2018 3:56:03 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You know, that sounds kinda appetizing. |
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Posted: 10/13/2018 4:22:45 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If I can top it with flying fish roe Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
You know, that sounds kinda appetizing.
I think I'd prefer salmon roe, myself. |
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Posted: 10/13/2018 4:25:09 PM EDT
[#37]
Cake is solidly at the bottom.
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Posted: 10/13/2018 8:11:54 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Dammit.
I think I'd prefer salmon roe, myself. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You know, that sounds kinda appetizing.
I think I'd prefer salmon roe, myself. |
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Posted: 10/13/2018 8:15:06 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
TBH, I'd really like to swap the sardines for fried oysters and then the smash would be in full effect. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You know, that sounds kinda appetizing.
I think I'd prefer salmon roe, myself. |
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Posted: 10/13/2018 9:53:27 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Link where Marty Kendall discusses satiety calculation: https://optimisingnutrition.com/2018/10/09/calculating-satiety/. Tl;dr is that lean protein and high fiber foods have the highest satiety |
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Posted: 10/14/2018 8:28:53 AM EDT
[#41]
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Posted: 10/30/2018 6:59:12 PM EDT
[#42]
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Posted: 10/30/2018 7:20:06 PM EDT
[#43]
I need to loose weight... what and when do I eat based on those charts?
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Posted: 10/30/2018 7:30:50 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I need to loose weight... what and when do I eat based on those charts? |
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Posted: 10/30/2018 10:48:59 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Braunschweiger definitely takes some getting used to. |
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Posted: 10/30/2018 11:24:21 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think it's delicious! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Braunschweiger definitely takes some getting used to. |
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Posted: 11/4/2018 9:06:51 PM EDT
[#47]
That first image is fucked. Y-axis has mustard greens at the same "keto score" as donuts.
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Posted: 11/18/2018 8:14:52 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I need to loose weight... what and when do I eat based on those charts? Look up a TDEE calculator online and get a rough idea how many calories a day you need (set it to sedentary). Eat 500-1000 calories less a day than you need. Eat actual food and nothing processed. Do not eat sugar and flour. Recalculate every 10 pounds of weight loss or so. |
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