@foxtrot08



Why not include 5w40? I’ve never seen a straight 10w  diesel oil. Is kubota saying that 5w is to light for start up?

Also, can anyone explain in dummy language how a liquid flows less when heated?

This is what it goes in

Can I borrow it?

I believe it may be because the drag force of 5w should be higher than 15w, especially in colder conditions. Both viscosities are 40, though.

What's the temp in that shop? Remain above freezing?

I don't see it not working.

I don't believe Foxtrot is a fan of 5W40 IIRC, he is an SME and I value his opinion.

I have done a few tests side by side with 5W/40 and 15W40 and the 5W was noticeably less "honeyed up" than the 15W at below 0 fahrenheit temps in my very unscientific garage experiments.

IIRC he likes and recommends the Kendall 10W30?

I need to buy some and try it.

Lack of viscosity index improvers in 15w40?  More shear resistant than 5w40?  Idk just my guess.

Well I cant find Kendal anywhere. I dont want an oil you can only order. I remember him saying 5w40 t6 is pretty good but shit on the new 15w40 t6 for some reason.

Unless you have an extremely small Diesel engine, or extremely cold environments, 5w40 is solution looking for a problem.


I run it in an extreme stand by diesel generator and my tiny Deere 2305. (Which probably should be 10w30.)



However. Heading to the cigar shop. I’ll post more then. And why.

Yeah, that's the reason I held off, I can't just walk into a store here and buy it. Plus, with some of the discounts they run occasionally the usual suspect brands can be stocked up pretty cheap.

I have run and currently run the Delo 5W40 synthetic in both my old 2000 7.3 PSD and my '14 6.7 Cummins year round. Also Delvac 1300 15W40  and I run the T6 5W30 in my 4.0 Jeep. I think I ran the T6 5W40 in the PSD also years ago.

@Foxtrot08

what do you like for a full synthetic 0W-20 for a subaru crosstrek?

There he is!

I will check in later when he gets back and schools us.

Also, what is your definition of an "extremely cold environment". Thanks Foxtrot.

I can tell you that for 10 years I ran conventional 15/40 in a fleet of 25 trucks.
my last shop job we had over 300 trucks running full syth strait 30 wt.
I have always run the cheapest diesel oil from farm and fleet in my Kubota.
only engine failures I've seen in 25 years were caused from total lack of maintenance or just plain worn out.

you're putting way to much thinking into it
it's just oil
change it regularly and you'll be fine.

5W40 will tend to shear down to a lower viscosity with use because of the VI improvers.

Maybe you could find a full synthetic that doesn't use VIIs or at least minimally uses them. I don't have a lot of experience with wide viscosity range 40W oils. I would assume that a full synthetic 5W40 would be fairly expensive.

Yea, but you also weren’t dealing with dpf’s. A little ring wear just smoked a little. Now it kills the dpf.

We use Kendall 10w30 at work in all the CATs except an experimental D8 that gets CAT 15w40 because it’s theirs and that’s the control oil.

So a CK4 straight 10w just doesn’t exist. You can cross that off the list.


My main problem is a good synthetic blend 10w30 does 95% of the same thing as a full synthetic 5w40, for less than 1/2 the cost.


Not only that, you’ll probably have better fuel dilution protection. Which comes with extended oil drains, high idle times and also emissions equipment.

5w40s and the new 5w30 Diesel engine oils and 0w40 Diesel engine oils are really, really weak to fuel dilution. Once they get hit with fuel their oil drain interval falls a lot. Which means you just need to change your engine oil more often.

If you look at the common denominator there, your choices are really 10w30 or 15w40 for most temps.  

Out of those two, really 10w30 is recommended more for the application.

Now if you were in an arctic environment/really cold, which I define as under -10F sustained, yeah. I would say a 5w40 or 0w40.

But being in Ky you don’t really see that. So a 10w30 works clearly. A good provider will have a solid cold flow performance, with a sustained shear strength.  The cold flow performance will typically be within a few degrees of a 5w40 full synthetic. Thus kinda pointless.  


Now if you were in a very warm environment, southern Florida, Texas, AZ. I’d say a 15w40 is probably a better choice because your engine will run warmer.  But since you’re in a mild climate.  10w30.


As for brands, yeah. I’m a Kendall fan boy. But there’s decent manufacturers otherwise too.  Chevron, Petro Canada, mystik / citgo.  Even some private label brands are very solid as well.

But the range of manufacturing variance in Diesel engine oils is a lot more than PCMOs.   Thus I’d like to stick with a highly rated one. Because it’s not just the engine you’re trying to protect. It’s the emissions equipment.  You have to look at the Noack volatility test. You have to look at the sulfated ash. The DD13 wear scare test. Etc.  

My second to Kendall would be the Delo XLE 10w30. It holds up well. Castrol vectron is another solid oil. But very expensive and harder to find.


All that being said.  A 5w40 absolutely will not hurt your engine. If that’s what you have, send it. And if you don’t want to buy anything different. I get it.  It absolutely will not hurt anything.  The only thing I would look at is the oil life. But if you’re not extending your drains, then whatever. It’s just a little more expensive.

Subaru. Made by idemitsu.


After that really most 0w20s are fine. The box for PCMOs are very small to fit with in spec.  Not a lot of Better or worse. Just stay away from like dollar general oil and shit. Major brands are good.

The new t6 15w40 they made intentionally worse, and expensive.

The reason you buy a 5w40 is either extended drain, fuel economy or cold flow.

And you in theory can recoup your money from it.


A full synthetic 15w40 checks none of those boxes. Maybe extended drain intervals.  But still, it’s expensive. And with emissions equipment.... whhhhyyyy?


Whyyyy did they take a perfectly good group 3 base oil and make it fucking worse?


Why? Marketing. Because it’s Rotella. People buy it. And pay oh so stupid prices for it.

10-4.

i like penzoil because i can get it at walmaht, it's relatively inexpensive, the jug has two handles for pouring, and it's marked in half quart increments.

Yeah it’s fine.  A passenger car motor oil for the most part is a passenger car motor oil.  

That ones good. Their GTL base oil is actually a fantastic group 3 product. Great VI, great cold flow.  Some additive issues but that’s not your problem. They figured out the chemistry mostly on it.

10-4.  you're the best!

I run Shell Rotella 15w-40 in my F350 (460EFI) because I buy it in 5 gallon buckets as my diesel Ford tractor uses it too. Both also use the FL1A filter.

Truck has 208K and is still going strong

Probably for equipment that old, you’re fine running whatever.

New equipment gets a little different.


Plus if you did oil sampling between the two it would be eye opening.  Kendall for fleets does the two change challenge.

They’ll give a drum to a fleet.  Free oil sampling for two oil changes. Run it side by side.

You’ll see the difference in the sampling.

Rotella just uses a cheap polymer package which shears. Fast.  It’s really bad in like stationary generators and large equipment.  

The t6 5w40 is the only thing in their line up that is okay. Because they have the group 3 GTL base oil.

Do you know who makes kubota oil? And if Kendall isn’t available is motorcraft just as good? Wally carries it.

Yes.  

For the most part it’s Phillips 66 / Kendall. Thus the only other super UDT2 approved product, besides Kubota’s, is Kendall hyken 052+ / powertran xp.

Kubota oil is fine. Motorcraft is also very good.

do you have a blog?

i'd watch all your youtube videos on oil and such.

Ar15.com is the closest to a blog I have.

I got banned from bobistheoilguy for calling out amsoil and shell shills on their bullshit.

Proprietary blend my ass. Scamsoil buys base oil and additives from the same people I do. And they like me better.

Thanks for the info, makes me feel a little better.

I do it for simplicity, and it's cheap oil.

GM reccomends 5w40 Mobil 1 as a substitute for 15-40 conventional in the DMax

Attached File

I'm glad to hear this, that's usually what I run in our other Fords (5.4 and 4.6 2Vs).

Isuzu recommends factory fill with Delo XLE 10w30 Dmax engines.

I run shell rotella 5w40 synthetic year round in my 99 E350 with the 7.3 international.  The synthetic got rid of those cold weather romps diesel like to do.

We should be friends.

This makes me want to try the 5w40 in my tractor. She romps good in the cold. It doesn't have a block heater, and of course doesn't like the cold.

Little machines that you over maintain, it’s a good choice.

Example, my generator had 24 hours on it when I changed its oil. But it’s outside. In the cold and weather. So I change it yearly.  And it gets 5w40.

My 2305 sits in my cold detached garage. It gets 5w40. No block heater.  It certainly quieted it down.  


My big tractors in a semi heated, insulated garage? 15w40.

Even they’re over maintained. Yearly oil changes. No more than 100-150 hours.

Edit:

I’d also recommend checking / changing your coolant on a small tractor.  If it’s a small diesel, drain and flush it with final charge.

Thanks for the tips/info.

It's a "small" tractor I use to make hay. Ford/NH 3930.

I like Fords

We had one of those as our small tractors on the old farm (680 acres) - bomb proof tractors.

Good machines. Not sure if I’d run 5w40 in it due to potential seal seal issues.  I’d probably add a block heater or bubbler to the antifreeze.

Maybe ask here:  https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

the real question is why do they design engines to take odd amounts of oil.  Got an ATV that takes something like 2.2 qts.  why not 2, why not 3.  What am I going to do with .8 qt of oil?

Very few questions asked there, couldn’t be answered here by either myself or D_man.

There’s a few additive chemists there. But that’s about it.

Engineering. The filter capacity/size. The amount of travel distance between the sump and filter.  Or the oil pump to the upper part of the engine.  Etc.

Don't know you, but I already like you.

@boolzi

As a fellow KUBOTA owner, what is the dpf?

I use Rotella T6 5w40 for simplicity... wish it got a discount for drums!

1) Works ok in my Cummins 6.7L for extended drain intervals.  UOA showed plenty good at 12k mi
2) JASO rated for my motorcycles.

I am on my third Duramax.  All have run Mobile1, 5W40 after the factory oil is out.  I run it 365 days a year in the oil patch and pulling trailer.  Keep my trucks five years and usually I have about 200k miles or so on the odometer by then.  Never been an issue.  Lots of -40 weather too but also lots of +80 weather.  Lots of guys tell me I am doing it wrong and nothing but 15W40 should be in there.  Don’t know what to say.  Works for me.

I love these oil threads.  

@raisedbywolves

Diesel particulate filter

One of the many issues with the dpf is not being able to see smoke from an engine, like burning oil.

15w40 is listed by the manufacturer for all listed temperature ranges. It is a very commonly available and used oil grade. Why do you not want to follow the manufactures recommendations?  Also, the manufacturer lists 10w-30 for all temp ranges. I have never looked for 10w30 because 15w40 is recommended for my truck and it does fine where I live.

The viscosity of the both single weight and multi weight oil will decrease with temperature of the oil. I don't know why people think it gets thicker with the increase in temperature.

Old style single weights would be very thick at cold temperatures and would thin out rapidly as they are heated. So a 10 weight oil at 0 degrees would be much thinner than a 40 weight oil at 0. At 160 degrees, the 10 weight oil would be thinner than the 40 weight and might be too thin for proper lubrication.

Multi grade oils behave like much lower weight single grade oils at low temperatures and heavier weight single grade oils at higher temperatures. They aren't getting thicker at high temperatures they are getting less thin than a single grade oil that would be thin enough for a cold start.

Thanks for the discussion again foxtrot 08 .

i want to be Foxtrot08 when i grow up.