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Posted: 10/16/2021 11:44:09 PM EDT
[#1]
I’ve shot and have experience with all of them.
Obviously all great. If u was buying one for myself, it’d likely be a Nighthawk. It’s not for any objective reason other than I personally like them better. Wilson second. This is from the point of view of a gun to actually use, not a safe queen. |
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Posted: 10/16/2021 11:44:30 PM EDT
[#2]
Alchemy and/or Cabot is the answer you seek...
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Posted: 10/16/2021 11:46:14 PM EDT
[#3]
I personally like Nighthawk and Wilson but Baer is only slightly behind.
Brown is good too at the price point. I've just never had a poor experience with a Wilson or Nighthawk which makes sense since they're just down the road from each other and Nighthawk is a lot of former Wilson employees. If you're dead set on accuracy and a tight fit, nothing beats a Baer. |
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Posted: 10/16/2021 11:46:40 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Alchemy and/or Cabot is the answer you seek... I knew someone who wouldn’t let me touch his Cabot without putting gloves on. 
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Posted: 10/16/2021 11:48:44 PM EDT
[#5]
I've owned them all.. I still have a Nighthawk and Les Baer.. the Les BOSS is one of the most accurate 1911's I've ever owned. Funny enough, the Les was also the least expensive of those listed.
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Posted: 10/16/2021 11:53:37 PM EDT
[#6]
I’ve owned Wilson and Baer. They are both well made, solid, accurate pistols. The Wilson’s are a bit more money and they feel a little more polished - like fancier and well broken in smoothness. The Baer is tight and needs to be broken in and feels more no nonsense and less options. Depending on you and what you are looking for, one of them will speak to you a bit louder than the other.
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Posted: 10/16/2021 11:54:18 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I knew someone who wouldn’t let me touch his Cabot without putting gloves on. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Alchemy and/or Cabot is the answer you seek... I knew someone who wouldn’t let me touch his Cabot without putting gloves on. I've known two Cabot owners and both are not even big gun guys. One of those "I have to own the the most expensive setup for some social media back pats." Pretty sure they both have put less than 500 rounds in them total. Both are tech types that will sometimes buy a random gun because it was in a Call of Duty game or it's considered "Tier 1." I have another friend with at least 25k+ handloads through his 10+ year old Wilson Combat CQB. That gun is well loved. |
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Posted: 10/16/2021 11:54:34 PM EDT
[#8]
When I was in the market for a good 1911 I found a Baer someone had been using for competition - lovingly, not abused. It had a lot of rounds through it but doggone if that thing wasn’t still tight as a drum. Edit: like “this thing is still hard to field strip” tight. That was impressive.
It was for some reason priced quite expensive even though it was used, so for a few more bucks I wound up with a new Ed Brown and haven’t looked back. I love the thing. But I still think about that Baer! |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 12:05:40 AM EDT
[#9]
I have a Baer Custom Carry. It's been very accurate, haven't had any malfunctions yet, though I'm still breaking it in round count wise.
I guess it's common knowledge, but Baers are fitted a little tight. I haven't noticed much difference to Springfields other than frame to slide fit has no movement, the barrel bushing is fucking tight though. Nighthawk and Wilson shouldn't be too different, from what I understand the guy that started Nighthawk used to work at Wilson. People say something like "Baers are fitted tight, Wilsons are fitted right." But to me, mine seems perfectly put together. I heard that the difference is the amount of finishing on internal parts. If you completely disassemble it, (which I still haven't attempted  ) supposedly you will see rougher finish and more tool marks on Baer internal parts, compared to Wilson's.The coating on my CC is pretty weak in some spots I think it's basically blued. It gets scratched up pretty easy. That's about all I know. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 12:10:52 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've owned them all.. I still have a Nighthawk and Les Baer.. the Les BOSS is one of the most accurate 1911's I've ever owned. Funny enough, the Les was also the least expensive of those listed. That’s because they ship in a cardboard box instead of a fancy canvas case. Or at least my TRS did way back when. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 12:13:45 AM EDT
[#11]
Budget ?
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Posted: 10/17/2021 12:15:33 AM EDT
[#12]
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Posted: 10/17/2021 12:16:56 AM EDT
[#13]
A friend had (has?) a Nighthawk.
Finicky as all hell with ammo. I know it’s been back at least once, and he was told something about “breaking in period“, fuck all that. Not for that price. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 12:22:13 AM EDT
[#14]
I have a Baer, very well fitted and accurate. Agree that the higher priced ones like Brown are finished better but not really fitted better. Have a Jim Clark Sr build, much more ''hand made'' and fitted and cruder in looks but absolutely perfection in how it actually works. It's like everything rides together on greased glass. It's a joy to just work the action and feel everything as it locks up.
If you ever run across a Briley at a good price, I'd suggest you snap it up, they were built under the eyes of the very good master gunsmith Claudio Salassa and are extremely well built pistols. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 12:25:28 AM EDT
[#15]
Les Baer would get my vote out of those.
Those Cabot's look real good too. Several years back I went with a Luke Volkmann 1911 though. 
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Posted: 10/17/2021 12:25:41 AM EDT
[#16]
Some really good information here on some of the 1911's, but not all. 2011 Severns Custom "THUNDER IN THE WEST" shoot-out!
Severns custom 2010 holiday shoot-out...the report! |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 12:26:47 AM EDT
[#17]
I’ve had a Wilson CQB since 2000. I can’t imagine one being smother or better fitted. It is amazing. Very happy with the purchase. Would buy again. I’ve shot a baer and wouldn’t hesitate to buy one for the right price but it wasn’t as nice as my Wilson.
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Posted: 10/17/2021 12:29:28 AM EDT
[#18]
You can buy to Baers for the price of one Nighthawk, if you find the right dealer, and get the right model. Which means, in a practical sense, you could get one to carry, and get another of the same type to shoot the crap out of.
You also can sometime find some pretty good values on the resale market. In this price range you probably also want to look at the Springfield Pro, Guncrafter, and Rock River Arms. I have a Baer, two Pros, and a RRA. Bought at different times, for different prices. I shoot the Pros more than anything else, but if I was dipping my toe in the water, I'd honestly choose a new or used Baer of the options you mention, and spend the $1000 you save on ammo and training. At the other end of that you could be in a better position to decide if one of the Nighthawk or Wilsons were the a better choice. If you could still get a Wilson CQB for 2k, but those days are long gone. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 12:29:57 AM EDT
[#19]
As others have mentioned, ACW.
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Posted: 10/17/2021 12:40:18 AM EDT
[#20]
Surprised hearing the Nighthawk issues.
I bought a used one years ago and initially had problems with the (non-labeled) ACT magazines that came with it. I switched over to 47D and Tripp mags and it ran fine. Should never have sold that gun. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 12:44:10 AM EDT
[#21]
In for answers.
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Posted: 10/17/2021 12:46:21 AM EDT
[#22]
You get what you pay for and there’s a reason that a Nighthawk or Wilson costs more than a Baer. The heart of a 1911’s accuracy is how the slide stop pin fits the barrel legs and how the barrel hood fits the slide. Those are the two areas that take the longest to fit properly, and the two areas where Baer saves time by overcutting the hood and undercutting the legs. That’s the famous Baer break-in….you’re smashing the two most critical parts for accuracy into each other until the gun runs properly.
At least for now, Nighthawk and Wilson do it right. There is nothing inherently wrong with a Baer, but at the point that Baer hammers a pistol into lock-up and sends it out, those other two companies are probably spending a couple more hours perfectly fitting the barrel legs to eliminate barrel bump and cut another inch off your group at 50 yards. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 12:47:28 AM EDT
[#23]
I've shot a Nighthawk and a Wilson side by side. The finish on the Nighthawk was better, but the Wilson was a better gun overall. Never shot the other two brands mentioned.
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Posted: 10/17/2021 12:55:16 AM EDT
[#24]
I have a Wilson that is my EDC, and an Ed Brown that belonged to a friend of mine who passed away. Both are extremely well built and work flawlessly.
You can't go wrong buying either. The Les Baer guns I've shot worked fine but no direct ownership experience for them or Nighthawk.  |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 1:02:25 AM EDT
[#25]
I have had my Wilson CQB forever, it has never failed me.
I shot a Nighthawk, it felt nearly as nice as my Wilson ( my CQB has a lot of of rounds through it, so smoother than that new Nighthawk ). Either way you cant go wrong. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 1:06:19 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A friend had (has?) a Nighthawk. Finicky as all hell with ammo. I know it’s been back at least once, and he was told something about “breaking in period“, fuck all that. Not for that price. Absolutely right. There shouldn’t be any break in period. They need to figure out what’s wrong and fix it. Early Nighthawk had issues, so they brought in a famed and eccentric 1911 smith called Bob Marvel to fix them. He introduced the one gun, one gunsmith concept. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 1:34:55 AM EDT
[#27]
I've owned them all except Nighthawk, mostly because I never saw a Nighthawk I would care to own, at least until very recently.
Wilson and Nighthawk put the most hand fitting hours into their guns. Baers are rougher but still way ahead of your typical production 1911. They'll fit a bushing about as tight as possible and let the lower lugs and slide stop fight it out, which is where the famed "tightness" comes in and why they're hard to rack. Brown is somewhere in the middle but my general opinion is that they tend to rely on good CNC work and keeping close tolerances in lieu of having a gunsmith go over the gun to correct issues or get the perfect fit, where Wilson and Nighthawk tend to go that extra mile. However, Brown's customer service seems so universally unpleasant to deal with that if you do have a problem, it might be tough to get them to help. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 1:49:17 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve owned Wilson and Baer. They are both well made, solid, accurate pistols. The Wilson’s are a bit more money and they feel a little more polished - like fancier and well broken in smoothness. The Baer is tight and needs to be broken in and feels more no nonsense and less options. Depending on you and what you are looking for, one of them will speak to you a bit louder than the other. Having to “break in” a high end 1911 is a bad sign. When you “break in” a gun you’re essentially causing wear to parts to reduce friction and there’s no way to control how much wear is being done to each surface. This necessarily means the gun is never going to be as accurate as it could have been. It might still be extremely accurate but having unnecessary amounts of friction is a sign of subpar craftsmanship. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 1:52:07 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That’s because they ship in a cardboard box instead of a fancy canvas case. Or at least my TRS did way back when. No, it’s because they spend less time on finish, surfacing, and fitting. If you inspect a Baer, Wilson and Alchemy in person it’s not even close which of the three has had the lease time spent on it. Baer makes a great gun but facts are facts. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 1:56:44 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've owned them all except Nighthawk, mostly because I never saw a Nighthawk I would care to own, at least until very recently. Wilson and Nighthawk put the most hand fitting hours into their guns. Baers are rougher but still way ahead of your typical production 1911. They'll fit a bushing about as tight as possible and let the lower lugs and slide stop fight it out, which is where the famed "tightness" comes in and why they're hard to rack. Brown is somewhere in the middle but my general opinion is that they tend to rely on good CNC work and keeping close tolerances in lieu of having a gunsmith go over the gun to correct issues or get the perfect fit, where Wilson and Nighthawk tend to go that extra mile. However, Brown's customer service seems so universally unpleasant to deal with that if you do have a problem, it might be tough to get them to help. Nighthawk does make customs though if you don't necessarily want a standard model. I have 2 2011 builds on order that will look like nothing in their lineup. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 2:34:49 AM EDT
[#31]
If I wanted a nicer looking 1911 I'd go with Wilson, if I wanted more customization I'd go with Nighthawk. They're both about the same in my book.
I'll likely pick up a Nighthawk for shooting USPSA Single Stack or have them make me a 2011 if Atlas won't build me a full custom gun. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 2:36:45 AM EDT
[#32]
We have a Night hawk, and it is worth having!!!!!
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Posted: 10/17/2021 2:49:04 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If I wanted a nicer looking 1911 I'd go with Wilson, if I wanted more customization I'd go with Nighthawk. They're both about the same in my book. I'll likely pick up a Nighthawk for shooting USPSA Single Stack or have them make me a 2011 if Atlas won't build me a full custom gun. Atlas doesn't do customs. I've seen a few guys get a minor change to a slide or some other slight change but it took extreme begging. Since they're assembling guns from Phoenix Trinity components I'm sure it isn't easy for them to make a change to a model. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 2:54:28 AM EDT
[#34]
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Posted: 10/17/2021 2:58:02 AM EDT
[#35]
I would go with Nighthawk and get the DLC.
Wilson's finish is dogshit that doesn't hold up. For how much those guns cost it is an embarrassment how much their finish sucks. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 4:59:53 AM EDT
[#36]
Anecdotal, but my new purchase Baer was disappointing and suffered from poor QC and cracked frame, and concave slide from the fitting stage (I guess). Terrible CS despite paying $$$ for that factory fix too. FJB and LB.
Nighthawk was a much better investment. I have a Wilson Beretta that's absolute tits. YMMV |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 5:11:40 AM EDT
[#37]
I bought an Ed Brown, beautiful gun, it got dirty and started jamming within the first 100 rounds. It was consistent with jamming and needed constant lube for the next few hundred rounds.
Wasn't enjoyable and too temperamental for me, sold it at a loss. I love my Ruger SR1911 series 70 way more, it's perfect and what the 1911 is meant to be. The trigger, fit/finish, performance are all awesome. Zero issues except the case neck gets dented on extraction. Don't care, Ruger makes an exceptional 1911. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 5:52:07 AM EDT
[#38]
I have muliple examples of all. The Nighthawks are where my money goes.
Any problems I call Bob Reeves and they are taken care of in short order. The last two I bought used from Collectors Firearms in Texas. Their grading system is spot on. So Both were "Excellant" condition. I detailed strip and cleaned them, put a new Nighthawk spring kit in them The Kit contains recoil, firing pin, and mainspring springs. So I ended up with two guns in "New" condition for almost a grand less than ordering one. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 7:32:58 AM EDT
[#39]
I have handled them all. I own Baers. You are really paying for style and finish at any higher price than a baer. Not that it’s a bad thing, but if you like basic bitch utility you get a baer. If you want super fancy whatever you get nighthawk.
 Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 10:32:17 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nighthawk does make customs though if you don't necessarily want a standard model. I have 2 2011 builds on order that will look like nothing in their lineup. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I've owned them all except Nighthawk, mostly because I never saw a Nighthawk I would care to own, at least until very recently. Wilson and Nighthawk put the most hand fitting hours into their guns. Baers are rougher but still way ahead of your typical production 1911. They'll fit a bushing about as tight as possible and let the lower lugs and slide stop fight it out, which is where the famed "tightness" comes in and why they're hard to rack. Brown is somewhere in the middle but my general opinion is that they tend to rely on good CNC work and keeping close tolerances in lieu of having a gunsmith go over the gun to correct issues or get the perfect fit, where Wilson and Nighthawk tend to go that extra mile. However, Brown's customer service seems so universally unpleasant to deal with that if you do have a problem, it might be tough to get them to help. Nighthawk does make customs though if you don't necessarily want a standard model. I have 2 2011 builds on order that will look like nothing in their lineup. True, they are probably the go to shop right now for something like that. I also like their interchangeable optic system. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 10:34:18 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anecdotal, but my new purchase Baer was disappointing and suffered from poor QC and cracked frame, and concave slide from the fitting stage (I guess). Terrible CS despite paying $$$ for that factory fix too. FJB and LB. Nighthawk was a much better investment. I have a Wilson Beretta that's absolute tits. YMMV I like Baers and have more of them than any other semi custom, but I think their best days are behind them as a shop. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 10:41:23 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like Baers and have more of them than any other semi custom, but I think their best days are behind them as a shop. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Anecdotal, but my new purchase Baer was disappointing and suffered from poor QC and cracked frame, and concave slide from the fitting stage (I guess). Terrible CS despite paying $$$ for that factory fix too. FJB and LB. Nighthawk was a much better investment. I have a Wilson Beretta that's absolute tits. YMMV I like Baers and have more of them than any other semi custom, but I think their best days are behind them as a shop. Why is that? [best days behind] Mine is old enough that it's has the racing gun dude on the grips]  Attached File |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 10:44:18 AM EDT
[#43]
(Swishes brandy around snifter while smoking cuban cigar) Well if you insist IMHO the Baer will serve you well for a lifetime.
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Posted: 10/17/2021 10:45:36 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why is that? [best days behind] Mine is old enough that it's has the racing gun dude on the grips] Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Anecdotal, but my new purchase Baer was disappointing and suffered from poor QC and cracked frame, and concave slide from the fitting stage (I guess). Terrible CS despite paying $$$ for that factory fix too. FJB and LB. Nighthawk was a much better investment. I have a Wilson Beretta that's absolute tits. YMMV I like Baers and have more of them than any other semi custom, but I think their best days are behind them as a shop. Why is that? [best days behind] Mine is old enough that it's has the racing gun dude on the grips] When I saw a photo of barrel lower lugs cut with a square file, I was like, I’m done. I think the quality of work probably directly varies with how much time Les is looking over shoulders. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 10:50:34 AM EDT
[#45]
I owned a super grade and CQB Wilson ,TR and premier Les Baer.. i still have my Colts .
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Posted: 10/17/2021 10:55:18 AM EDT
[#46]
Now this is a old school build where actual welding and filing was done......does look a bit crude inside except where it really counts.
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Posted: 10/17/2021 10:57:42 AM EDT
[#47]
I have two Wilsons. (Oddly enough, neither is a .45.) Both are superlative guns.
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Posted: 10/17/2021 10:58:40 AM EDT
[#48]
I was wanting a Wilson or nighthawk for a while, but ended up with a Springfield Professional. It scratched my high end 1911 itch.
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Posted: 10/17/2021 11:01:05 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You get what you pay for and there’s a reason that a Nighthawk or Wilson costs more than a Baer. The heart of a 1911’s accuracy is how the slide stop pin fits the barrel legs and how the barrel hood fits the slide. Those are the two areas that take the longest to fit properly, and the two areas where Baer saves time by overcutting the hood and undercutting the legs. That’s the famous Baer break-in….you’re smashing the two most critical parts for accuracy into each other until the gun runs properly. At least for now, Nighthawk and Wilson do it right. There is nothing inherently wrong with a Baer, but at the point that Baer hammers a pistol into lock-up and sends it out, those other two companies are probably spending a couple more hours perfectly fitting the barrel legs to eliminate barrel bump and cut another inch off your group at 50 yards. And now the lower lugs are work hardened with artificial stress risers and they’ll break. Baers aren’t ‘fit really tight’ , they’re not fit. They’re smashed together. Brown and Wilson use very precise machining to build drop-in parts, not sure about Nighthawk these days but a few years ago they were hand fitting barrels and I never saw one that was anywhere near correct. If you’re hell bent on one of those 4, skip the Baer, get one of the other 3, and sent it to Chambers Custom for a new bushing, correct the barrel fit, and check the whole thing over. Or buy a Chambers WMG. Or a Cabot. |
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Posted: 10/17/2021 11:28:49 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And now the lower lugs are work hardened with artificial stress risers and they’ll break. Baers aren’t ‘fit really tight’ , they’re not fit. They’re smashed together. Brown and Wilson use very precise machining to build drop-in parts, not sure about Nighthawk these days but a few years ago they were hand fitting barrels and I never saw one that was anywhere near correct. If you’re hell bent on one of those 4, skip the Baer, get one of the other 3, and sent it to Chambers Custom for a new bushing, correct the barrel fit, and check the whole thing over. Or buy a Chambers WMG. Or a Cabot. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You get what you pay for and there’s a reason that a Nighthawk or Wilson costs more than a Baer. The heart of a 1911’s accuracy is how the slide stop pin fits the barrel legs and how the barrel hood fits the slide. Those are the two areas that take the longest to fit properly, and the two areas where Baer saves time by overcutting the hood and undercutting the legs. That’s the famous Baer break-in….you’re smashing the two most critical parts for accuracy into each other until the gun runs properly. At least for now, Nighthawk and Wilson do it right. There is nothing inherently wrong with a Baer, but at the point that Baer hammers a pistol into lock-up and sends it out, those other two companies are probably spending a couple more hours perfectly fitting the barrel legs to eliminate barrel bump and cut another inch off your group at 50 yards. And now the lower lugs are work hardened with artificial stress risers and they’ll break. Baers aren’t ‘fit really tight’ , they’re not fit. They’re smashed together. Brown and Wilson use very precise machining to build drop-in parts, not sure about Nighthawk these days but a few years ago they were hand fitting barrels and I never saw one that was anywhere near correct. If you’re hell bent on one of those 4, skip the Baer, get one of the other 3, and sent it to Chambers Custom for a new bushing, correct the barrel fit, and check the whole thing over. Or buy a Chambers WMG. Or a Cabot. Well that’s disappointing regarding Nighthawk. A gun shouldn’t need to be fixed if you spend that kind of money. Baer parts have traditionally been solid, so a Baer is usually a good base gun with a rebarrel and a new extractor. Joe Chambers has a really long waiting list….one of the guys at Perry this year mentioned it was 8 years and we all laughed. He builds nice guns, but they are not better than any other pistol built by a good 1911 smith. And just like with every other smith, I’ve heard plenty of people bitch about Joe’s work. Cabot, well that’s for rich guys who don’t actually shoot. I bet they’re fantastic though. Right now Accuracy X and Rock River still have good reputations for accurate 1911s. Personally, I would go with a military-trained smith and just tell him what I want. The gun won’t be as pretty as some of those semi-customs, but it’ll be built right. |
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