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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:12:23 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Prices did reflect that. Aguila 9mm in 2010- $200 per case of 1,000 Aguila 9mm in 2018- $180 per case of 1,000 IMI 556 in 2012- $359 per case of 1,200 IMI 556 in 2018- $290 per case of 1,200 I have receipts for these prices. And today it is $840 per 1200. At midway. That’s a massive jump from 2012–2018. It’s crazy |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:12:58 PM EDT
[#2]
I remember when I was young and first getting into shooting in the early 2000's, Wal-Mart was selling 550 round bricks of Federal 22lr for less than $6.00. Adjusted for inflation that same box of ammo should cost $8.44 today. That's half of what they were moving for during the "salad days" a couple of years ago. Some of you guys have your head burried in the sand if you truly believe that ammo companies were on hard times back then lol.
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:15:15 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: One would think they could run the primer machines 24/7 and plenty of primers Are they hiring, I could pocked handfuls of primers while working  And give us reloaders an ability to continue to build our ammo stashes up without having to pay massive prices on factory loaded ammo? Don’t see that as their agenda. They rather keep making factory ammo and enjoy their bigger profits. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:18:41 PM EDT
[#4]
God damn some of you are spoiled children.
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:20:41 PM EDT
[#5]
Look at all the experts we have in supply, demand, and market economics.
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:23:05 PM EDT
[#6]
It is what it is.
Get it for a good price when you can and if you can. All this echo chamber isn't going to change what they do or don't do, sadly. Losing the Lake City contract to Winchester, I am sure had a great deal to do with production changes. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:24:01 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm still crying about Wolf primer availability, fuck those other brands. I don't even remember what happened it's been so long, did Obama ban the import or something. Those were some spicy primers. S&B picked a shitty time to jump out of the market |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:26:11 PM EDT
[#8]
Edited ~ medicmandan
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:26:43 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: God damn some of you are spoiled children. This x 2 |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:33:27 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: God damn some of you are spoiled children. This. Fucking babies need to learn from this and stock up when prices come back down. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:34:32 PM EDT
[#11]
<------- laughs in 458 Socom
To those of us paying attention, we've had ample warning. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:34:38 PM EDT
[#12]
Takeaway: If you didn't stock up pre-panic, get ready to bend over because you're going to be paying a whole lot more.
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:37:04 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And give us reloaders an ability to continue to build our ammo stashes up without having to pay massive prices on factory loaded ammo? Don’t see that as their agenda. They rather keep making factory ammo and enjoy their bigger profits. Capitalism bad? |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:37:30 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Im surprised they cant crank out primers relatively easy I mean its a metal cup with some sensitive boom powder and a anvil on top Primer compound can go boom easily Not the safest thing to manufacture. The permits for that stuff is amazing and time consuming to get |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:38:43 PM EDT
[#15]
They will be expanding capacity with Remington.
The Remington plant was rumored to be running at 25% capacity if not lower, when they went bankrupt. Federal can optimize that plant, bring it up to 100% capacity, then also probably optimize it. Increasing over all production out of that facility once it’s cleaned up. But he’s absolutely right. It’s probably a 3 to 5 year build out for a new plant or even expanding a current production facility. Edit: Assuming you had ~1B+ dollars to throw at this. It would take you a few weeks to months to close on a piece of land. It would take approximately ~5-6 months to get the building permits, zoning approvals. It would probably take another ~6 months to get the environmental approvals to build. I’m guessing several months, to a year to get the fire storage approvals of the chemicals. Depending on your state fire codes and the like. It would probably take a few months to a year to get ATF approval. A few months to engineer the building. Then re engineer it. Then engineer it again for all the above approvals. Now you’re also ordering and designing machines. You would break ground. Assuming you’re building ~200,000 square feet. You’re talking a year build out for the warehouse, parking, office area. Getting utility approvals. Getting the proper electric run. Getting the building stood up. Hopefully by then your machines are built. As they’re custom made and engineered. It will probably take you 4-6 months to get them rigged, hooked up. Then you have to test and optimize. During this time you’re now hiring and training work force. It will take 6 months to a year to properly train your work force. Another year to optimize it all out before you’re running at 100%. During all this, you’re negotiating with raw material suppliers. Brass, copper, lead, steel, chemicals. Hopefully the major suppliers of those components can increase their capacity to supply you. In some supply chains there’s just not enough surplus. So you can’t get enough to run optimally. Or they’re yearly contracts which if you buy in, prices go up. So there’s 5 years. And probably 1B+ dollars. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:39:16 PM EDT
[#16]
Did anyone else notice the empty shelves behind him? Are they shipping that fast that they don't need to store it? I doubt it.
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:40:35 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: <------- laughs in 458 Socom https://tnstatic.net/attachments/img_20210112_191540-jpg.534797/ To those of us paying attention, we've had ample warning. Where is the rest of your .458 socom ammo? I can burn through that in no time with my range trips. I assume you have way more than that stashed to replace what you shoot every month. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:42:38 PM EDT
[#18]
Just skip to the 3:00 mark. Everything before is just lib keywords and virtue signaling.
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:42:39 PM EDT
[#19]
Well, at least Trump reversed the Obama EO that blocked Tula primers. At least I can buy those again.
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:44:30 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They will be expanding capacity with Remington. The Remington plant was rumored to be running at 25% capacity if not lower, when they went bankrupt. Federal can optimize that plant, bring it up to 100% capacity, then also probably optimize it. Increasing over all production out of that facility once it’s cleaned up. But he’s absolutely right. It’s probably a 3 to 5 year build out for a new plant or even expanding a current production facility. I really doubt it will take 3 to 5 years to put in a primer machine/process in an existing plant for surge capacity. At today's prices the ROI would be quick. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:44:32 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Primer compound can go boom easily Not the safest thing to manufacture. The permits for that stuff is amazing and time consuming to get Weird I ordered some primer compound mix and it was non hazmat |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:45:36 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I do not recall ammo prices so cheap they were almost paying us to take it. Ever. I do recall panics that wiped the shelves out a few times of most calibers due to shootings and election stuff. But I never recall a point where there is not one box of ammo of any caliber on a shelf. Zero calibers on the shelf now. No 12 gauge. No .357 sig. no .357 magnum. No hunting calibers. I check the stores around me. They are not getting ammo in. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: What are you talking about? 2017 and 2018 was some of the best ammo buying ever, they where almost paying us to take it. How quickly you all forget. lol I do not recall ammo prices so cheap they were almost paying us to take it. Ever. I do recall panics that wiped the shelves out a few times of most calibers due to shootings and election stuff. But I never recall a point where there is not one box of ammo of any caliber on a shelf. Zero calibers on the shelf now. No 12 gauge. No .357 sig. no .357 magnum. No hunting calibers. I check the stores around me. They are not getting ammo in. You are checking the wrong stores then. You gotta go to the chain stores. Walmart, Big 5, Academy, Sportsman’s warehouse.. This week I’ve seen ammo on store shelves including 12 and 20 Ga slugs and birdshot, 22Lr, 17HMR, 556, 6.5Creedmore, 50BMG, 38 Super, .260, 7mm Mag, 300 Savage, 32S&W, 32ACP and others at normal retail prices. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:46:14 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I really doubt it will take 3 to 5 years to put in a primer machine/process in an existing plant for surge capacity. At today's prices the ROI would be quick. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They will be expanding capacity with Remington. The Remington plant was rumored to be running at 25% capacity if not lower, when they went bankrupt. Federal can optimize that plant, bring it up to 100% capacity, then also probably optimize it. Increasing over all production out of that facility once it’s cleaned up. But he’s absolutely right. It’s probably a 3 to 5 year build out for a new plant or even expanding a current production facility. I really doubt it will take 3 to 5 years to put in a primer machine/process in an existing plant for surge capacity. At today's prices the ROI would be quick. See my edit. It would be extremely costly. I assume Remingtons plant had primer making facilities. If they can increase capacity there, that’s the fastest bet. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:46:41 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: From a business standpoint it wouldn't make sense either. Their machines are all long paid for. Why would they spend capital to add more machinery that would sit idle for years at a time? They are cranking out plenty of ammo, there's just no backstock right now. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yes, add more production capability for primers so it can sit idle next time ammo and reloading is back to low again just like every other fucking panic so far. 2 years ago it was cheap and people didn't stock up. After a mass shooting or election it goes up, then comes down. Plan ahead people. Not a companies job to take all the risk of adding new shit to keep you supplied when you didn't plan ahead enough. Depends on the time it takes to bring new manufacturing capacity online. Figure there is at least 12-18 months of pent up demand in ammo purchasing, and that gives you a back of an envelope number where the market will absorb additional supply at higher than normal prices. May or may not be enough to pay for the capital investment in additional capacity. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:48:04 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where is the rest of your .458 socom ammo? I can burn through that in no time with my range trips. I assume you have way more than that stashed to replace what you shoot every month. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: <------- laughs in 458 Socom https://tnstatic.net/attachments/img_20210112_191540-jpg.534797/ To those of us paying attention, we've had ample warning. Where is the rest of your .458 socom ammo? I can burn through that in no time with my range trips. I assume you have way more than that stashed to replace what you shoot every month. Yeah there's more. Just my last bench session. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:49:44 PM EDT
[#26]
Is this guy deaf?
Sounds like he is using T's in place of S's in his speach. Also he's a damn fudd! Only focused on muh hunting rounds. More hunters are good just look at this diverse group we are showing you.  |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:50:38 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Capitalism bad? It is what it is. My local ranges are ghost towns. One of the busiest indoor ranges in Kansas City had one person using it. It used to have waiting lists. There are plenty of people that can afford ammo regardless of prices going up. I also understand it makes zero sense from a business standpoint to build a new factory to catch up. Plenty of things happening to cause this ammo situation. So here we are. But the people here screaming “you didn’t prepare, you don’t have a ammo fort”! Are right. But my question to them is are you still shooting at your normal pace without worrying about your stash getting low? And what is your monthly training course of fire? I like to shoot. A bunch. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:52:31 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is this guy deaf? Sounds like he is using T's in place of S's in his speach. Also he's a damn fudd! Only focused on muh hunting rounds. More hunters are good just look at this diverse group we are showing you. Highest margin ammo. Do you really think production cost of a 150gr FMJ 308 and a 165g “vita shock” Sierra Game King 308 are that much different? One pre panic cost 50 cents a round about. The other pre panic was about $2 a round. Production cost difference is maybe at best a few cents. It’s his job to make the company as much money as possible. Thus, hunting ammo. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:53:23 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Takeaway: If you didn't stock up pre-panic, get ready to bend over because you're going to be paying a whole lot more. Yeah it sure does suck for the new guys getting into reloading. I'm fine, I bought primers by the 5k case at $16-$18 per thousand. The only thing that got me was the Large Rifle, I depended on Wolf for those and didn't buy enough before we stopped getting them with only a couple thousand left. I got some Palma brass so I can use small rifle too. I have 22 conversions for pistol and AR and a ton of pre-Obama 22lr, worst case I just use those as much as possible to stay fresh without burning too much real ammo. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:53:52 PM EDT
[#30]
Almost as if the company is not responsible for providing what you want at a price you think it should be at and instead it's goal is to make money.
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:56:59 PM EDT
[#31]
A LGS owner about 30 minutes from me told me that Federal obtained the contract to produce much (if not all?) of the armed services ammo. He said Lake City is out.
Anyone able to verify that? If true, it would make sense in light of that video put out by the CEO about a month ago when he shows them making ammunition...that could’ve just been to fulfill contractual obligations. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:57:25 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is what it is. My local ranges are ghost towns. One of the busiest indoor ranges in Kansas City had one person using it. It used to have waiting lists. There are plenty of people that can afford ammo regardless of prices going up. I also understand it makes zero sense from a business standpoint to build a new factory to catch up. Plenty of things happening to cause this ammo situation. So here we are. But the people here screaming “you didn’t prepare, you don’t have a ammo fort”! Are right. But my question to them is are you still shooting at your normal pace without worrying about your stash getting low? And what is your monthly training course of fire? I like to shoot. A bunch. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Capitalism bad? It is what it is. My local ranges are ghost towns. One of the busiest indoor ranges in Kansas City had one person using it. It used to have waiting lists. There are plenty of people that can afford ammo regardless of prices going up. I also understand it makes zero sense from a business standpoint to build a new factory to catch up. Plenty of things happening to cause this ammo situation. So here we are. But the people here screaming “you didn’t prepare, you don’t have a ammo fort”! Are right. But my question to them is are you still shooting at your normal pace without worrying about your stash getting low? And what is your monthly training course of fire? I like to shoot. A bunch. I’m still shooting once a week. sometimes it’s rifles, other times it’s handguns, and occasionally shotguns. Yesterday I shot 100 rounds of 22LR and 50 Rounds of 9mm. I’m not a reloader so I save my 45, 10mm, 38 and 357 brass for friends that do. I don’t bother picking up 9mm brass. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:57:39 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are checking the wrong stores then. You gotta go to the chain stores. Walmart, Big 5, Academy, Sportsman’s warehouse.. This week I’ve seen ammo on store shelves including 12 and 20 Ga slugs and birdshot, 22Lr, 17HMR, 556, 6.5Creedmore, 50BMG, 38 Super, .260, 7mm Mag, 300 Savage, 32S&W, 32ACP and others at normal retail prices. I’m in the Columbia Missouri area. The academy and bass pro here have been empty for quite awhile. The one in rolla was doing great for a bit but it was empty last time I checked. I know it’s out there. It’s just not what it used to be. I know it will get back to normal. It’s just frustrating right now |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:57:42 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And give us reloaders an ability to continue to build our ammo stashes up without having to pay massive prices on factory loaded ammo? Don't see that as their agenda. They rather keep making factory ammo and enjoy their bigger profits. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: One would think they could run the primer machines 24/7 and plenty of primers Are they hiring, I could pocked handfuls of primers while working And give us reloaders an ability to continue to build our ammo stashes up without having to pay massive prices on factory loaded ammo? Don't see that as their agenda. They rather keep making factory ammo and enjoy their bigger profits. Primer manufacture is a manual "by hand" process. I would imagine the guys who do it are working overtime. Most shooters don't reload, so I can understand why all the primers are going toward ammo manufacture. Primers were incredibly cheap a couple of years ago. There were GB deals throughout 2019 where every primer size could be had for less than $25/K (including hazmat and shipping) if you bought several thousand, and sometimes much less. I bought a bunch of small rifle primers and ended up paying $17/K. That was the time to stock up. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:59:24 PM EDT
[#35]
Some of you sound entitled. Get over yourselves.
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Posted: 1/21/2021 12:59:29 PM EDT
[#36]
Calling BS on the fine gentleman .
This is what happens when you have ( 1 ) one company controlling a large segment of any product . Makes no difference what the commodity or product may be . Basically a monopoly. And he gets to promote any lame ass excuse he pleases . gd |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 1:00:03 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A LGS owner about 30 minutes from me told me that Federal obtained the contract to produce much (if not all?) of the armed services ammo. He said Lake City is out. Anyone able to verify that? If true, it would make sense in light of that video put out by the CEO about a month ago when he shows them making ammunition...that could’ve just been to fulfill contractual obligations. Lake City is government owned. It is run by ammunition suppliers. Federal / Vista outdoors lost the contract to run it last year. Olin / Winchester now operates it. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 1:00:23 PM EDT
[#38]
He sounds like an SJW retard.
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Posted: 1/21/2021 1:00:35 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Look at all the experts we have in supply, demand, and market economics.  Attached File |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 1:01:34 PM EDT
[#40]
Little or no competition in an industry=shortages and higher prices.
He's the CEO of how many companies? His job is to increase profits not reduce prices. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 1:01:40 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Calling BS on the fine gentleman . This is what happens when you have ( 1 ) one company controlling a large segment of any product . Makes no difference what the commodity or product may be . Basically a monopoly. And he gets to promote any lame ass excuse he pleases . gd Not even close to a monopoly. Federal / vista outdoors isn’t even vertically integrated. Olin is a chemical company that makes ammo. Federal just makes ammo. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 1:01:47 PM EDT
[#42]
Lol at the entire first half of the video I’m sure that’s what their customers are glad to hear. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 1:03:20 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They will be expanding capacity with Remington. The Remington plant was rumored to be running at 25% capacity if not lower, when they went bankrupt. Federal can optimize that plant, bring it up to 100% capacity, then also probably optimize it. Increasing over all production out of that facility once it’s cleaned up. But he’s absolutely right. It’s probably a 3 to 5 year build out for a new plant or even expanding a current production facility. Edit: Assuming you had ~1B+ dollars to throw at this. It would take you a few weeks to months to close on a piece of land. It would take approximately ~5-6 months to get the building permits, zoning approvals. It would probably take another ~6 months to get the environmental approvals to build. I’m guessing several months, to a year to get the fire storage approvals of the chemicals. Depending on your state fire codes and the like. It would probably take a few months to a year to get ATF approval. A few months to engineer the building. Then re engineer it. Then engineer it again for all the above approvals. Now you’re also ordering and designing machines. You would break ground. Assuming you’re building ~200,000 square feet. You’re talking a year build out for the warehouse, parking, office area. Getting utility approvals. Getting the proper electric run. Getting the building stood up. Hopefully by then your machines are built. As they’re custom made and engineered. It will probably take you 4-6 months to get them rigged, hooked up. Then you have to test and optimize. During this time you’re now hiring and training work force. It will take 6 months to a year to properly train your work force. Another year to optimize it all out before you’re running at 100%. During all this, you’re negotiating with raw material suppliers. Brass, copper, lead, steel, chemicals. Hopefully the major suppliers of those components can increase their capacity to supply you. In some supply chains there’s just not enough surplus. So you can’t get enough to run optimally. Or they’re yearly contracts which if you buy in, prices go up. So there’s 5 years. And probably 1B+ dollars. Or you could just get Thornton to handle it all...  Back to School (1986) - Thornton Talks Business Scene (4/12) | Movieclips |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 1:04:27 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A LGS owner about 30 minutes from me told me that Federal obtained the contract to produce much (if not all?) of the armed services ammo. He said Lake City is out. Anyone able to verify that? . He’s got it backwards. Lake city is run by Olin now |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 1:06:21 PM EDT
[#45]
I'm on a weak data connection at work. Has he at least stopped whining yet?
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Posted: 1/21/2021 1:06:31 PM EDT
[#46]
Here's the summary.
Obama fucked with the lead production/availability - $ > $$ (No new capacity added) Proposed Bills, false flag events, ammo tax scares, import restrictions - $$ > $$$ (No new capacity added) Dem. President, lots of new shooters, gun shelves bare - $$$ > $$$$$ (No new capacity added) Can now sell from manufacturer to distributor, and distributor to seller/end user at a higher price, with no extra plant/facility costs = no reason for them to change what they're doing when they can increase profits and they have no competition... |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 1:08:55 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Are you motherfuckers making anything or did you all die?" Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Does anyone actually believe that the number one question had anything to do with the health of the workers? This is bs propaganda "Are you motherfuckers making anything or did you all die?" 
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Posted: 1/21/2021 1:10:10 PM EDT
[#48]
Your failure to prepare for your needs long term is now the manufacturer and distributors fault. Got it.
CEO that wants his company to prosper so it can survive the lean times is filthy greed. Got it. This place is getting dumber all the time. |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 1:10:16 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Man, everyone is bagging on this guy hard for some reason. They're obviously working to capacity and likely not interested in turning away sales. However building a new factory is 10's (if not100's) of millions, and years of investment that may not be needed when the market pulls back. Plus, if there is any major gun legislation it could put a big dent in any future sales/capacity needs. If he said they're building a new factory in every state starting now, people would be pissed it wasn't already done next week. Lot of people sound like spoiled children/libs demanding a company ask "how high" as soon you you say jump. This is what a panic looks like and it's nothing new. The " if there is any major gun legislation it could put a big dent in any future sales /capacity needs " is the reason . And they don't have to buy . Rent/lease is a real thing . And perhaps there would not be a " panic " if supply was available . Even if spotty . 10's if not 100's of millions of cost . Please . you can build an entire strip shopping center for 10 million . |
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Posted: 1/21/2021 1:14:04 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just skip to the 3:00 mark. Everything before is just lib keywords and virtue signaling. Your employees handle explosives and lead all day, and you're worried about a cold virus. No one gives a shit about more women and minorities hunting, unless you're trying to grab the Fudd vote. Also, if you prioritize hunting ammo during an election year, you were either certain that Trump was going to win, or you are an absolute dumb fuck. |
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