Looking to get my first nice piece.

I've had a combat b I've loved for the last few years but would like a new auto diver.

Pry in the 3 to 3500 range, looking at nice used examples, (complete set)

Obviously it's a very personal choice but would love some feedback from some of you that have some nice timepieces as to what you like best, or would pick if you could only have one nice diver..

My list I'm contemplating;

BB58
Pelagos
Seamaster/speedy (speedy may be pushing it $)
U50
Superocean 42

I'm a 7.25 wrist, would like a bracelet I can swap out for some of my nato's..

It would be a almost everyday watch, not expecting it to stay pristine.

I know the black bay vs seamaster debate has been done to death, again assuming you could only have one in your collection..

Look forward to any feedback!!

That list is it for The Who’s who of the price range.

Get the one that calls you the most. You can get the others next.

ETA: 7.25” wrist? Pelagos.

I’d wait a month or so. I think the new models are about to drop.

Except for an 8L35 Seiko or an Oris you have already nailed the highest quality in the 1500 to 3500 range.

I love my BB58 as a dressy but casual diver with a retro look. I really wanted a Pelagos to start, its the perfect tool watch in my mind but it was a bit too big for me. I have a 6.25" wrist, your 7.25" is probably about perfect for one.

I’m in the exact same boat as you. I also have a 7.25” wrist. I’m also considering nearly the exact same models. I’ve almost narrowed it completely down to the Tudor lineup. I’d highly suggest you get hands on with whatever you’re considering.

The Pelagos is great is nearly every way. The sizing is perfect for our 7.25” wrists. The titanium case is awesome and lightweight. The weight of it offsets the super tall case. I prefer the case finish to the other Black Bays as the big slab sides don’t stand out so much, especially with the helium escape valve. I think the Pelagos is the dive watch of dive watches. If I wanted to learn how to dive, I’d buy a Pelagos in a heartbeat. The bracelet is on a whole new level, it’s honestly as close to perfect as you can get. The bezel is perfect. It looks great on a nato or even a leather strap. Nearly everything is perfect except for one thing…. The damn dial. I think the dial is so boring and unattractive. Between the matte finish and the stupid text all over it, I feel that they killed it. Yes it’s a tool watch, it doesn’t need to be flashy, but it drives me crazy. I like the date on the Pelagos. Not enough people talk about how perfectly it blends the date into the dial. I don’t think the date on the Pelagos is intrusive at all. The LHD is just a weird watch. Fake aged indices on a modern diver doesn’t make sense to me. On the wrist it feels boring, but in the same way a 4th gen Toyota Supra has ‘boring’ looks. They have the performance under the hood, but if you didn’t know more about the car, you could mistake it for a Mitsubishi Eclipse. The Pelagos has the power under the hood. I prefer the black, as the blue might restrict you more as your only watch. It might just be the best tool watch out there, but at the end of the day, the looks don’t do it for me as a ‘one watch collection’. I would love it as a second or third ‘nice’ watch, but I don’t think I would ever be satisfied if it was my only watch.

The BB58 is another nearly perfect watch. They’re much more traditional and dressier than the Pelagos. They’re more refined and the proportions fit a daily watch better for me. You might think the watch feels small on the wrist. It’s not a huge watch and our 7.25” wrists make the watch start to feel small compared to modern standards. Forget about modern standards. 39mm is not too small for us. I personally think it’s just right. The thickness of the BB58 makes it a beauty and you will forget it’s on your wrist. It feels more substantial than the Pelagos in my opinion, even though it might be considered to be ‘less of a watch’. Like the Pelagos, the BB58 has an amazing bracelet and I would highly recommend you get the bracelet with it. My personal problem with the BB58 is strictly the color options. I personally hate the options available at the moment. Both are homages to the older Tudors, but I don’t find either particularly attractive. The black 58 has gilt all over it. I don’t like the gilt. It’s the equivalent of ‘battleworn’ finish on a firearm. Sure it’s kinda cool, but once you see a gun that’s actually had it’s finish worn down to metal from actual use, you know that the fake finish is just that… fake. Gilt just seems gimmicky to me. I doubt the watch will look good 50 years from now. I know I know that I’m probably over critical of it, but it kills the watch for me. On the other hand the blue 58 has way to much blue for my tastes. Lots of people love blue watches and this would be a great one for those folks. I think the blue 58 looks dead sexy on a cognac leather nato strap, but I don’t get excited about the color on the bracelet or most natos. I think the blue restricts your dress slightly more than the black. I’ve tried really hard to overcome my opinions of the BB58 colors, but I just can’t at this time. I really hope they come out with a more conservative choice down the road. All that being said, if you like the color options in the BB58 line, I would HIGHLY suggest you try on a BB58. I think you’ll come home with one.

I’m personally not a fan of the double AR coated crystal of the Seamaster. The outer coating with get scratched. I think it’s completely unacceptable for a tool watch. Otherwise, the polar dial is a beautiful watch. The bracelet sucks though. Seamasters belong on natos in my opinion.

Speedmasters can be found in your budget if you’re not too picky. I’d highly recommend one. I have no negatives on a Speedmaster. I hope to buy one someday. If I could only have one watch, I’d personally rather not have a chronograph though. I think a Speedmaster makes a perfect second watch.

U50 is a great tool watch option. I posted on here a few weeks ago about a Black Bay vs the U50. People in the know overwhelmingly leaned towards Tudor. I think the U50 would be great, but I get the impression that it’s in a whole different class than Tudor. I wish I could get hands on one. It’s the only watch on your list that I have not tried on before.

Make sure to try on any Breitling before you buy. I really liked pictures of them online, but once I tried one on I hated it. I really hated it. They seem over polished everywhere and way to flashy for me. Again, just an opinion.

This is all coming from a guy who is new to watches and has spent the last 4 months shopping for the right watch. My local AD ordered me a Black Bay heritage with the steel bezel and date on Saturday to try on. I’m pretty sure it’s my perfect daily watch. I hope my rants help, it’s all from a perspective from a guy that has only tried them on for about 2 minutes so take it for what it’s worth. Like Finslayer said, get the one that calls to you. Forget what people say on the internet. Try them on before purchasing if you can. Even with my nit-picky complaints you absolutely cannot go wrong with any of the watches in your list.

Have a look at the older Breitlings. They will get you a nice leap in quality for a lot less money.

They have the “signature” Breitling bezel features, and are pretty cheap because the “chiclet” bracelet isn’t as desirable as the “slash cut” bracelet. That might not matter to you since you plan on putting it on a NATO.

The Breitling Colt is usually a few $$$ more. The applied markers , combined with the concentric pattern on the GMT is an interesting dial.

Black and Blue dials are common of the market. Orange dials are hot right now.







Save the unspent dollars for the future Rolex.

ETA: Most Breitlings are way too polished. I hate the bling of it too. Most of the polish goes away with a NATO. There are several brushed models, or you can have yours brushed. I brushed the Abyss in that picture.

Both Breitling and TAG seem to have lost a significant amount of market share in the past fifteen years or so.

To currently well under 5% each.

The market only seem to tolerate one overpriced success brand, one best watch for the price brand, etc.

Consider a DOXA Sub 300T?



or a DOXA Sub 300 with the top hat crystal and COSC movement?



Both are available in several dial/hand/bezel combinations.

TAG fit, finish, and feel hasn’t really moved with market expectations. There are exceptions of course, but he isn’t looking for a Monaco or special release. Going from his Glycine diver to a TAG diver would be a lateral move IMO.

What Breitling lacks in in-house-movement it makes up for in the parts you can see (case, dial, bracelet). Since he has no qualms about buying used Breitling’s unpopularity in the market works in his favor.

Is this just another watch or are do you think you are starting on a collecting journey?

The Speedy, that would be a budget buster, is the only true icon watch on your list.



The Seamaster isn’t a bad choice. The collection has some iconic references (like the SMP) but it doesn’t have the upper level collector status of the Speedy.



Either would be a good starting point for a collection.

When and where would you wear this new watch (Meaning how rough will it be treated)?

Thank you guys for the great feedback.

@x_red_beard_x

Man you know what's funny,  I literally could have written your post. Lol

I truly like all the watches I've listed,  it just seems they are all missing just a little something.  Hard to explain.

Completely agree on your Tudor notes,  almost down to a T.  I actually really like the LHD, but don't want a left crown for my kinda one and only..

Watch will be almost everyday use, gym, mowing, wrenching on my truck, plan to wear it on shift on Med calls, or even fighting structure fires.. I won't be easy on it..

@Finslayer any timeframe on the new Tudor releases? Or just shortly in the future? Maybe to wait for that would be wise..

Thx again guys

Just to clarify, I know a speedy maybe pushing it $ wise..

The speedy pro's are all standard auto's, while the FOIS's are all hand wind correct?

Not sure what to think about the crystal options on those for my intended use..

Regarding a speedy, I'd highly recommend getting a manual. It adds to the watch in my opinion. Kinda like manually grinding coffee beans every morning. There's something better about it. It helps me slow down in the morning. For certain watches, that can be desirable. The speedy's crown has a beautiful windup mechanism. I don't know how to explain it except there is a very positive engagement and it's pleasing.

Hesalite vs sapphire. I personally don't care. You can polish hesalite so it's not much of a problem for me.

My daily is a Sangin Atlas with an eight o-clock crown. I know, it's weird, but a left hand crown shouldn't be a deal breaker in my opinion. Try it on, I bet you like it. If the Pelagos is calling your name and you like the aesthetics, jump on one. You won't regret it.

Usually they were consistent on release dates / quarters but since C19 shut down the big trade shows - they just kind of do it here or there.

Spring gets the big releases and then they did a fall one too.

Sorry for all the questions from the watch noob here.. was the new bronze 58's the fall release, or did they debut those this last spring?

In your view you think the new 40mm pelagos has a chance to be seen this fall?? If legitimate

Interesting.. I kinda like that way of thinking.  On the manuals I guess they don't "charge" so to speak at all when being worn.? Just basically set time and wind every few days? Or wind everyday to keep time set and keep them going?

Also, just to add. Crazy to see the ETA "smiley" BB prices climb like they are..

Good grief

Yes sir, manual watches just require you to wind them up when you put them on. There’s no rotor so it won’t self-wind. A manual watch ensures you stay ‘engaged’ to your watch

Remember the Speedy Pro doesn't have a screw-down crown. That plus the pushers means it's feet-dry for me, which also means the Speedy is a great collection watch but not a great EDC for most people.

The Seamaster Pro is my favorite single watch in that price range. Redbeard mentioned the outer AR issue, which I agree with. I personally like the bracelet.

I like Sinn watches.  You might want to look at these:

U1 Collection

U2 Colleciton

U50

Longines Hydroconquest? Comes in different sizes and colors to suit your taste. I have a 43mm silver dial on order.

It’s the Tudor Rose dial man… The shields are meh

I took a lot of abuse as a little boy for that Rose because my watch “was a girls watch.” I wish I still had it.

The updated re-issue was a nostalgia buy for me.

Vote for Pelagos. Love mine.

Those Sinn's are sweet. They have a few I really do like.. I think the U50 calls to me the most.. if I had a few nice watches in a collection it would have a spot, as my only nice auto I'm just not sure yet...

Haven't really considered the Longines, will look into those more for sure..

Funny, the Pelagos is getting alot of love. That's one I haven't seen in person.  Probably if the LHD version wasn't a 9 o'clock crown I wouldn't be looking for insight, as I'd pry pull the trigger.  Maybe I'm making to much of that.

I’m not saying I don’t own one, but like many other Swiss I have, DOXA is one of those companies where I am paying for a level of fit, finish, and movement available for half the price.

For dive watches, Glycine seems to be about the entry point for Swiss.  And while Swiss made seems about on par with fit, finish, lume,  and quality of say- a nice Orient dive watch.
A slight step up to Squale and it seems to be on par with a nice Seiko dive watch, but with Lume not as strong.
At the 1000$ Swiss price point something weird happens.  You can find a level fit, finish, quality etc. seen on a dozen or more Swiss brands, that have prices from 600 to 1000 to 1500 to 2000 to 2500.

The decades long reputation/advertising/marketing for Rolex has paid off brilliantly.  And the market seems to tolerate it as the “one” that when all is said and done people are willing to pay 10K for when the watch could probably be matched in quality and finish and produced and sold at a profit for about 3K.

And the market seems perfectly willing to have an alternative, Omega, occupying a slot as just as nice but a better buy.

In the 90s the market also seemed willing to tolerate and have a place for brands, like TAG and Breitling, that were also overprice for the quality, but seemed a bargain compared to a Rolex or Omega.

The resurgence over the past 15-20 years of other Swiss brands, at fantastic price points- seems to have cooled this tolerance.  The widespread internet and access of information also seems to have fueled an interest and market for faded and nearly forgotten historical brands and models that seem to allow for some tolerance for a premium, Like DOXA, Zodiac, etc.  and especially that seem a fantastic bargain at the price point like Squale, Certina, Tissot, etc. And has also generated some interest in brands that seem to offer a great quality at the price like Longines or Oris.

Anyways, not trying to start a watch fight, but it’s very interesting from a historical and business/marketing perspective.

I agree the speedy is an icon.

In all fairness, the super ocean has legit history as a dive watch from the original decade of the modern dive watch, the 1950s.  It may not have beat Blancpain, Rolex, Zodiac, etc.  But the brand does have fantastic history.  But Longines has legit dive history as well.  And you can get a hydroconquest, for far far less.  Or even a retro Nautilus for a little less.

Relatively new model from a company with a long dive watch history and even longer watch history.  I agree it’s a much better buy financially for a similar appearing dive watch.  (Although to be honest, in your hands it is very much a dress diver vs tool diver)

This is a very interesting company I don’t fully understand.

I think an engineer/pilot that was involved in making actually cockpit timepieces then started a watch company about 70 years ago.  I’m not sure if they manufactured the watches or assembled them from Swiss contracted/manufactured parts.  The company becomes even more Swiss related as time goes on with close relationships to Swiss companies and management.  They definitely seem to do their own R and D and design, but being a 4 or 5 hour drive from many Swiss manufacturers I’m still not clear on what parts they manufacture independently vs assemble. (To be fair, even the companies in the “heart and birthplace of German watchmaking”, in Glashutte, who seem fiercely and quickly ready to claim no ties to Swiss watchmaking, are only twice the drive away)

Overall a brand that seems to offer a lot of quality at the price point

I would do a used seamaster 300m on factory rubber.  Its different enough from a submariner, IMO, to be worthy.  A speedmaster will probably blow the budget.  Of the others....a tudor of your flavor on nato.

Not to derail this one, but here is the history of Mr. Sinn.  BTW, the Guinand watches are a nice alternative to Sinn.

Sinn

Yes, definitely an interesting guy.

What is unclear to me is-
What constitutes “Made in Germany”
There were definitely periods where Sinn watches were assembled in Germany from Swiss manufactured components
What periods are Sinn watches entirely made of complete parts made in Germany

Obviously, watch history is a side hobby I like

@FlockaCGulz

That seamaster is gorgeous.  Exactly what I'd go with if I go that route..

Any complaints with the helium escape valve? I wish they would go with the pelagos style, but I know that's iconic Omega..


Started looking harder at the speedy's. They are awfully intriguing.  

What version do you have? Actually Started looking into the speedy reduced. I like the 39 size, seems like a great watch for much cheaper than the pro, not sure if I'd kick myself if I went with a reduced down the road

In my opinion, I would not get a speedy reduced, especially for the 7.25" wrist. There's a good reason they are so much cheaper than the others. It's not the moonwatch. The reduced is an automatic, I think it's basically an ETA2890 movement. A standard 42mm professional is what you seek.

I went down the Speedy Reduced/Date/MK40/Schumacher rabbit hole for a bit.

The Mini Moon isn’t a suitable substitute for the Professional. It is a nice watch to share with your wife/girlfriend.

The date models are more akin to dress casual watches. Some of the bracelets have push button hidden clasps similar to a Rolex President.

There are some interesting references if you have or plan on starting a watch collection. The only reduced I kept is this one…



I’ve heard it called a MK40 or a Japanese Racing. It has a non-typical dial, for a reduced date.

Here is my Seamaster and Superocean along with my Aquaracer. The Omega is definitely the superior watch in every way. If you can find one in your price range you would not be disappointed. That being said a Black Bay is on my list for purchase next if I can't luck into a Submariner.

Thanks! Since I don't do saturation diving, the HEV has the same functionality as the hood scoop on a Tacoma & 4Runner (i.e. cool visual feature; does nothing). I'd be happy without it, but it hasn't caused any kind of problem for me so I'm neutral. My speedy is the sapphire sandwich Moonwatch Professional, pre-owned from DavidSW. The movement is really beautiful to me, so the sapphire makes sense. A purist would get the Hesalite solid caseback version with no regrets. I can't shop for them cuz I'd go broke getting Dark Side of the Moon, Grey Side of the Moon, the silly Snoopy one, and some of the racing ones. The reduced models are nice and have a loyal following, but 38mm to just too small for my wrist.

Mine


Stock photo

Thanks again for spurring some interesting reading.  There is not a ton of detail out there, but GUInand has some significant watchmaking history, from an area both known for Swiss and French watchmaking, seems to be the source of many of the Sinn components and manufacturing, and still offers some great choices.  While an odd combination of French, Swiss, and German overall, the layout of some of their offerings seems to have that perfect case size to dial diameter and depth layout, very clean dial, and that perfect seconds hand kissing the seconds indices, minute hand kissing the minute indices, hour hand kissing the hours indices, and nice length to width hands.  Much of that is lost now with other designs with very cluttered dials, short, fat study hands, hand shapes/styles that are abortions, etc.

agree here but i do really like the Omega Seamasters.  Can't go wrong with them IMO.

crown too!

that is hot

I like the simple appearances like that: white hands on black dial that isn't too busy, like that one or the Vaer Atlantic diver.

on the other hand, I also have this weird fetish for the DOXA dive watches with their weird-ass hands and dial

Some great suggestions in this thread.

My wrist is a hair smaller than yours, and when I tried on the Tudor BB58 I felt it was too small and chose the regular Black Bay. It's a thick watch, but I like it a lot, and the power reserve is fantastic.


I also really like the current Breitling SuperOceans; very clean, sporty look. The big thing holding me back is the use of little set screws to maintain the bezel (seems overly complicated and ripe to fail), and I wish they'd go to an in-house movement for the price.

Either a new Pelagos or a used Seamaster Planet Ocean(You may have to really hunt to find this though, I sold my last one for $3800 and felt it was too cheap.)

You can get a new Pelagos for $3500ish.

OP - go with talks to you but my votes for the BB, Tudor currently is packing a lot of bang for the buck in their BB lineup.
My BB is probably nicer than my Sub date, actually, the fit and finish, not to mention the bracelet is way better.

Tudor today is what a Rolex was when I bought my Sub in 2004- the price is the same too

For whatever it's worth, I just ordered a heritage Black Bay last night. Got to handle another Submariner, it makes me appreciate the Tudor even more. The Sub is incredible in everyway, the proportions and heritage really do make it the perfect diver. From my experience, the machining, fit, and finish of the Tudor are close to being on par with the Rolex. I mean the differences are minimal. The pictures don't do these watches justice. Get hands on them and it'll help you decide.

How about something a little obscure like an Eterna Super Kontiki?

Their quality isn’t on par with current Tudor offerings, but neither is the street price. Maybe the IDF and Kontiki sailing histories might interest you.

That's awesome! What did you end up going with? A 58?

I have actually.  I love the older ones, the newer ones I just can't get as excited about

I would be interested in one of the 1973 Limited Editions, but that’s it. The deal would need to be really good too.

No sir, the heritage 41mm black bar with the stainless bezel with the date window