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Posted: 4/23/2015 10:17:13 PM EDT
[#1]
sounds good so far good sir thank you and mr hollis.
now that soon has come i am anxiously awaiting soon |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 4/23/2015 10:22:34 PM EDT
[#2]
Nolo~
Thank you sir for spearheading this uphill effort. (My Tavor and trust need a Form 1 fun switch) |
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Posted: 4/23/2015 10:25:28 PM EDT
[#3]
Good job on you nolo!
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Posted: 4/23/2015 10:31:47 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MSC182:
This times a million!  Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MSC182:
Originally Posted By antman311:
Originally Posted By Maroonfeather:
snip Awesome summary. Thank you. This times a million! Glad to do it. Hope it gives everybody a better idea of this part of the process. The Judge seemed pretty engaged with both parties and had clearly done some homework beforehand. I didn't detect any obvious bias one way or another, she just listened and asked a number of questions. Fingers crossed. |
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Posted: 4/23/2015 10:36:36 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Undefined: Depending on which aspects of the argument you wish to measure, we've waited between 29 and 81 years.... May the next blogger or so called gun rights advocate that claims these cases are being brought at the wrong time or we are pushing for too much too fast choke on their own bile. We've waited for decades. Anyone who thinks it isn't the right time to demand our rights probably thinks the 1960s were too soon for African Americans to demand their rights, or that women's suffrage should still be on the distant horizon rather than an indisputable reality. Too many second amendment supporters have died waiting. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Undefined: Originally Posted By NoloContendere: Originally Posted By Fugitive: Kicking myself for not buying some beers for Nolo afterwards. I've been trying to buy him beer for 3 years now. Finally got him to take A beer at CW4. Fattyfat bought me and Alan dinner. It was very generous of him. I am glad that the arfommers that showed up were very professional and very nice. We argued past one of the judges docket calls and I turned around the gallery was full of attorneys for the criminal docket. I thought, damn, when did they come in? Lol. Timeframe can really be anything. I've waited up to a year and a half for a ruling, I doubt this court will take that long, but it can truly be a while. So, now we wait and see what happens. I'm working another case on nonviolent felon dispossession that will be quite fun as well. Not filed yet, though. Depending on which aspects of the argument you wish to measure, we've waited between 29 and 81 years.... May the next blogger or so called gun rights advocate that claims these cases are being brought at the wrong time or we are pushing for too much too fast choke on their own bile. We've waited for decades. Anyone who thinks it isn't the right time to demand our rights probably thinks the 1960s were too soon for African Americans to demand their rights, or that women's suffrage should still be on the distant horizon rather than an indisputable reality. Too many second amendment supporters have died waiting. Amen. Thanks again to Nolo. Cannot be said enough IMO... |
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Posted: 4/23/2015 10:36:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Diesel_Maximus_2992]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fortydelta: If the Judge mentioned that she was not familiar with NFA stuff, do you think she would research some of the statements from today herself or wait for other hearings and filings to gather facts from the official court documents? If she researches herself, there is a very good chance she could wind up reading this thread. I suggest everyone be on their best behavior. nolo thank you for today |
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Posted: 4/23/2015 10:38:34 PM EDT
[#7]
Can see get a Ms paint courtroom sketch
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Posted: 4/23/2015 10:47:38 PM EDT
[#8]
To Nolo, Mr. Hollis and his team, THANK YOU!!
I really look forward to reading the transcript! |
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Posted: 4/23/2015 10:55:51 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Diesel_Maximus_2992:
too late for some. nolo thank you for today. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Diesel_Maximus_2992:
Originally Posted By fortydelta:
If the Judge mentioned that she was not familiar with NFA stuff, do you think she would research some of the statements from today herself or wait for other hearings and filings to gather facts from the official court documents? If she researches herself, there is a very good chance she could wind up reading this thread. I suggest everyone be on their best behavior. nolo thank you for today. 
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OK, USA
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Posted: 4/23/2015 10:56:19 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By MauserMatt:
To Nolo, Mr. Hollis and his team, THANK YOU!! I really look forward to reading the transcript! This. Bravo and (continued) good luck! |
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Posted: 4/23/2015 11:10:26 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AJSully421:
Two suits. The one that did the talking reminded me of the nerdy inventor from the Simpsons with the nasally voice. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By AJSully421:
Originally Posted By JPD158:
I'm curious how many suits showed up for the other side and if they looked like the bunch of idiots they are? good work today Nolo!Cursed machineguns! With the barrel shrouds, and the shoulder things, and GAHOYVEN Form 1's. |
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Posted: 4/23/2015 11:16:38 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Maroonfeather:
Glad to do it. Hope it gives everybody a better idea of this part of the process. The Judge seemed pretty engaged with both parties and had clearly done some homework beforehand. I didn't detect any obvious bias one way or another, she just listened and asked a number of questions. Fingers crossed. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Maroonfeather:
Originally Posted By MSC182:
Originally Posted By antman311:
Originally Posted By Maroonfeather:
snip Awesome summary. Thank you. This times a million! Glad to do it. Hope it gives everybody a better idea of this part of the process. The Judge seemed pretty engaged with both parties and had clearly done some homework beforehand. I didn't detect any obvious bias one way or another, she just listened and asked a number of questions. Fingers crossed. Thank you for your transcript. Did I read that right the DOJ brought up both sides of the trust issue? A trust is not a person. No matter what we said previously a Trust is a person. 
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Posted: 4/23/2015 11:28:36 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fortydelta:
If the Judge mentioned that she was not familiar with NFA stuff, do you think she would research some of the statements from today herself or wait for other hearings and filings to gather facts from the official court documents? If she researches herself, there is a very good chance she could wind up reading this thread. I suggest everyone be on their best behavior. For the most part everyone is aware that this thread is being actively watched by ATF, DoJ and I'm sure the court may come across it. Thankfully this judge isn't someone who arbitrarily reached a ruling before arguments. We may still loose. But I feel like she's going to give it the due dilligence it deserves. A lot of information was packed in the motions before arguments and I'm sure she has a good amount of research to chew on at this point. Hopefully things go well. |
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Posted: 4/23/2015 11:29:51 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eagle34:
Thank you for your transcript. Did I read that right the DOJ brought up both sides of the trust issue? A trust is not a person. No matter what we said previously a Trust is a person. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eagle34:
Originally Posted By Maroonfeather:
Originally Posted By MSC182:
Originally Posted By antman311:
Originally Posted By Maroonfeather:
snip Awesome summary. Thank you. This times a million! Glad to do it. Hope it gives everybody a better idea of this part of the process. The Judge seemed pretty engaged with both parties and had clearly done some homework beforehand. I didn't detect any obvious bias one way or another, she just listened and asked a number of questions. Fingers crossed. Thank you for your transcript. Did I read that right the DOJ brought up both sides of the trust issue? A trust is not a person. No matter what we said previously a Trust is a person. That's what I was confused about as well. Didn't the DOJ argue that the reason it was not legal for trusts to manufacture machineguns is because persons are basically the same as trusts because they act on behalf of trusts and weird shit that didn't logically make any sense like that? |
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Posted: 4/23/2015 11:31:05 PM EDT
[#15]
Mods should consider moving his to team.....
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Posted: 4/23/2015 11:33:02 PM EDT
[#16]
Thanks again Nolo!!
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Posted: 4/23/2015 11:33:18 PM EDT
[#17]
I cant imagine that the Judge would spend any amount of time reading this thread. I'm sure she has way too much on her place to waste that amount of time.
Now, I could see her assigning one of her clerks or interns to read it and give her a brief on it. |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 4/23/2015 11:56:20 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Grendel-OK:
I cant imagine that the Judge would spend any amount of time reading this thread. I'm sure she has way too much on her place to waste that amount of time. Now, I could see her assigning one of her clerks or interns to read it and give her a brief on it. You never know but if she does maybe they will realize that we are as a whole a very normal group of firearms owners. It's painful to see our country willingly give up their rights under influence of opinion and not fact. I really hope that the judge can be fair and impartial and not be swayed by public opinion or by fear of the unknown. If the judge takes time to really understand the issues and can make her judgement without personal emotion I would feel good about the outcome. Nolo keep it up we are all very proud of your efforts I really wish there were more we could do to help you. |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 12:02:32 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eagle34:
Thank you for your transcript. Did I read that right the DOJ brought up both sides of the trust issue? A trust is not a person. No matter what we said previously a Trust is a person. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eagle34:
Originally Posted By Maroonfeather:
Originally Posted By MSC182:
Originally Posted By antman311:
Originally Posted By Maroonfeather:
snip Awesome summary. Thank you. This times a million! Glad to do it. Hope it gives everybody a better idea of this part of the process. The Judge seemed pretty engaged with both parties and had clearly done some homework beforehand. I didn't detect any obvious bias one way or another, she just listened and asked a number of questions. Fingers crossed. Thank you for your transcript. Did I read that right the DOJ brought up both sides of the trust issue? A trust is not a person. No matter what we said previously a Trust is a person. You probably don't want to read too much into my description, my wording may be off. I think they were just trying to claim that a trust doesn't get special consideration over what a person would. I doubt they were reversing their stance during this hearing, I definitely wasn't trying to imply that. |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 12:24:46 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tesla120:
Mods should consider moving his to team..... I can't imagine why. I know I won't unless Nolo asks and I don't see that happening since pretty much any mod or staff would edit this at will for him. |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 12:26:49 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Conju: Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Conju: Originally Posted By Diesel_Maximus_2992: Originally Posted By fortydelta: If the Judge mentioned that she was not familiar with NFA stuff, do you think she would research some of the statements from today herself or wait for other hearings and filings to gather facts from the official court documents? If she researches herself, there is a very good chance she could wind up reading this thread. I suggest everyone be on their best behavior. nolo thank you for today.  |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2015 12:26:54 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fortydelta:
If the Judge mentioned that she was not familiar with NFA stuff, do you think she would research some of the statements from today herself or wait for other hearings and filings to gather facts from the official court documents? If she researches herself, there is a very good chance she could wind up reading this thread. I suggest everyone be on their best behavior. ARFCOM GD: Where experts come to research Due Process. I don't think that's right. I do think it's hopeful or helpful when a judge claims "I'm not familiar with category____ of laws." It leaves open the possibility that said judge comes to the conclusion "why hasn't anyone sued over this before?" because they're so awful on his/her own. The judge's research is likely going to be historical documents, case law, and statutes she's probably never even seen before. Internet forums are unlikely. |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 3:38:20 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost:
No. Soskins presented the .gov side. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By jaqufrost:
Originally Posted By Conju:
Originally Posted By Maroonfeather: Thank you. Did anyone from DOJ side show up to observe (individuals)? Really? And after the judge specifically asked for young attorneys to brief. Hmmmmm. |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 3:50:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Mariner82]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eagle34:
Thank you for your transcript. Did I read that right the DOJ brought up both sides of the trust issue? A trust is not a person. No matter what we said previously a Trust is a person. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Eagle34:
Originally Posted By Maroonfeather:
Originally Posted By MSC182:
Originally Posted By antman311:
Originally Posted By Maroonfeather:
snip Awesome summary. Thank you. This times a million! Glad to do it. Hope it gives everybody a better idea of this part of the process. The Judge seemed pretty engaged with both parties and had clearly done some homework beforehand. I didn't detect any obvious bias one way or another, she just listened and asked a number of questions. Fingers crossed. Thank you for your transcript. Did I read that right the DOJ brought up both sides of the trust issue? A trust is not a person. No matter what we said previously a Trust is a person. Worked for them with the Obungocare "It's a fee. Except when it isn't; then it's a tax." argument. 
Honestly, the arguments they presented sound like they make the case for the Plaintiff. As for the judge needing to read up on NFA and 2A stuff... really all she needs to do is read all the attachments to Nolo's brief! The Congressional Record of the NFA hearings really tell her all she needs to know about NFA, and it would anger any rational person. The whole Hughes Amendment is the definition of an arbitrary and capricious law. |
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NV, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2015 4:01:47 AM EDT
[#25]
NOLO, is the redacted date not an admission of guilt in and of itself? Is the NFA list in its entirety not a relevant piece of evidence in this case? Surely an investigation into the identity of anyone who was "allowed" to take private possession of a post ban should be considered. If a link to anyone at the ATF (or any .gov for that matter) can be proven, thats quite damaging information!
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Posted: 4/24/2015 5:47:56 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Maroonfeather:
Glad to do it. Hope it gives everybody a better idea of this part of the process. The Judge seemed pretty engaged with both parties and had clearly done some homework beforehand. I didn't detect any obvious bias one way or another, she just listened and asked a number of questions. Fingers crossed. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Maroonfeather:
Originally Posted By MSC182:
Originally Posted By antman311:
Originally Posted By Maroonfeather:
snip Awesome summary. Thank you. This times a million! Glad to do it. Hope it gives everybody a better idea of this part of the process. The Judge seemed pretty engaged with both parties and had clearly done some homework beforehand. I didn't detect any obvious bias one way or another, she just listened and asked a number of questions. Fingers crossed. If you're ever in Nashville, I owe you a beer. Thanks for the write up! |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 5:52:58 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tesla120:
Mods should consider moving his to team..... Interesting idea. On the one hand, this subject has attracted many new members to the site, and if it were to disappear from GD new threads would be created. On the other hand, now that this is in court it might be nice to redact some of the discussion prior to media types becoming interested. Perhaps move this thread to team, create a new official thread in GD, and closely moderate the official thread? Heavy moderation is never ideal, and contrary to much of what makes this site enjoyable, but most of the banter in GD isn't paid any attention by our own members, let alone the media, and therefore there is little incentive to exert effort to moderate it. These cases will gain in notoriety as they progress, and the attention paid to this site and any discussion on the cases will increase accordingly. |
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GBR
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Posted: 4/24/2015 9:24:00 AM EDT
[#28]
I would be saddened if this thread were moved to team, (presuming that that's a closed-off subscribers area?) but I would understand the reasons for it.
Perhaps some tidying of this thread would be better instead? |
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PA, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2015 9:30:23 AM EDT
[#29]
Thank you, Nolo. Your work is much appreciated.
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Posted: 4/24/2015 9:35:34 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By tesla120:
Mods should consider moving his to team..... Bacause the DOJ can't buy a membership?
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Posted: 4/24/2015 9:48:28 AM EDT
[#31]
Thank you so much to all involved! I really hope we are watching a turning point right now. I hope and pray that my children will never know the injustice and downright criminal denial of God-given rights that we have all endured.
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Posted: 4/24/2015 9:57:51 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ShooterPatriot:
Bacause the DOJ can't buy a membership? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ShooterPatriot:
Originally Posted By tesla120:
Mods should consider moving his to team..... Bacause the DOJ can't buy a membership? Exactly my thought. What's $24.00? Even a broke ass, working Joe like me can afford that. The gov's got $Trillions. I think having a judge who doesn't have a lot of pre-concieved ideas about 2A and NFA might work in our favor. Justice is blind and all that. In any event, its wait and see. The wheels turn slow sometimes but we've been putting up with Hugh's since '86. What's a few days, weeks, or even months? |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 10:10:33 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Adam-Wayne:
That's what I was confused about as well. Didn't the DOJ argue that the reason it was not legal for trusts to manufacture machineguns is because persons are basically the same as trusts because they act on behalf of trusts and weird shit that didn't logically make any sense like that? They also said MG's are not that common, therefore they can ban them, even though the banning is the reason they are not common. |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 10:11:00 AM EDT
[#34]
Nolo, thanks for fighting the good fight.
Thanks to the local guys that showed up in support. |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 10:18:34 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Captain_Morgan:
Nolo, thanks for fighting the good fight. Thanks to the local guys that showed up in support. +1. I am proud that we have Nolo in MS. Aside from these proceeding, he is very involved in state legislation and has moved the ball forward in MS. Hopefully, we will be getting Constitutional Carry in the near (year or two) future.
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Posted: 4/24/2015 10:28:33 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Undefined:
Too many second amendment supporters have died waiting. That short sentence hit me hard. Throughout this whole process, thoughts and memories of my uncle have been popping up randomly, though I haven't really consciously focused on them much. My uncle was the consummate "gun guy" - an old school gunsmith, hand loader, bullet caster (he used to cast bullets for the local PD back in the day), tinkerer, Civil War and WWII buff, and all around firearms aficionado. He possessed an encyclopedic knowledge of firearms and their inner workings, and was always genuinely excited to talk guns with anyone who was interested. Since I was the only other "gun nut" in the family, we used to talk for hours about guns and shooting on a regular basis. He was a true patriot, and he loved his country. Years ago when I was young and dumb, I had a wild idea that I was going to open up a gun shop. I had gone so far as to start putting together a rough idea of startup costs, writing a business plan, and researching business loan availability. I called him up to talk it over, assuming he would be excited and maybe offer to give me some advice to get me started. He did offer advice, but it wasn't what I expected. He told me I needed my head examined to even be considering it. He went on to describe life as a gun enthusiast before GCA, FOPA, AWB, etc. He talked about the freedoms he used to know that even in his lifetime had been whittled away to a mere shadow of what they once were. The disgust and obvious contempt he held for those in our government who had trampled the rights he had previously enjoyed surprised me, as I'd never heard that type of sentiment from him before. We talked for a long time, and by the time he had finished, I was already seriously reconsidering my plan. I'm glad we had that discussion and I think of it often whenever I hear of yet another government overstep with regards to firearm ownership. My uncle died in November of 2010, never having seen even a faint glimmer of hope that our rights might be restored someday. RIP, Uncle Tom. I want so bad to win this one for you. |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 11:07:27 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DaveyDug:
That short sentence hit me hard. <snip> My uncle died in November of 2010, never having seen even a faint glimmer of hope that our rights might be restored someday. RIP, Uncle Tom. I want so bad to win this one for you. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DaveyDug:
Originally Posted By Undefined:
Too many second amendment supporters have died waiting. That short sentence hit me hard. <snip> My uncle died in November of 2010, never having seen even a faint glimmer of hope that our rights might be restored someday. RIP, Uncle Tom. I want so bad to win this one for you. Damn man, I'm sorry to hear that. He sounded like one hell of a guy. All the more reason to keep fighting the long war against the ATF & the rest of the Feds 
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Posted: 4/24/2015 11:13:20 AM EDT
[#38]
Interesting time to be a supporter of the 2nd Amendment, that is for sure. Great job to everyone involved.
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Posted: 4/24/2015 11:14:46 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DaveyDug: That short sentence hit me hard. Throughout this whole process, thoughts and memories of my uncle have been popping up randomly, though I haven't really consciously focused on them much. My uncle was the consummate "gun guy" - an old school gunsmith, hand loader, bullet caster (he used to cast bullets for the local PD back in the day), tinkerer, Civil War and WWII buff, and all around firearms aficionado. He possessed an encyclopedic knowledge of firearms and their inner workings, and was always genuinely excited to talk guns with anyone who was interested. Since I was the only other "gun nut" in the family, we used to talk for hours about guns and shooting on a regular basis. He was a true patriot, and he loved his country. Years ago when I was young and dumb, I had a wild idea that I was going to open up a gun shop. I had gone so far as to start putting together a rough idea of startup costs, writing a business plan, and researching business loan availability. I called him up to talk it over, assuming he would be excited and maybe offer to give me some advice to get me started. He did offer advice, but it wasn't what I expected. He told me I needed my head examined to even be considering it. He went on to describe life as a gun enthusiast before GCA, FOPA, AWB, etc. He talked about the freedoms he used to know that even in his lifetime had been whittled away to a mere shadow of what they once were. The disgust and obvious contempt he held for those in our government who had trampled the rights he had previously enjoyed surprised me, as I'd never heard that type of sentiment from him before. We talked for a long time, and by the time he had finished, I was already seriously reconsidering my plan. I'm glad we had that discussion and I think of it often whenever I hear of yet another government overstep with regards to firearm ownership. My uncle died in November of 2010, never having seen even a faint glimmer of hope that our rights might be restored someday. RIP, Uncle Tom. I want so bad to win this one for you. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By DaveyDug: Originally Posted By Undefined: Too many second amendment supporters have died waiting. That short sentence hit me hard. Throughout this whole process, thoughts and memories of my uncle have been popping up randomly, though I haven't really consciously focused on them much. My uncle was the consummate "gun guy" - an old school gunsmith, hand loader, bullet caster (he used to cast bullets for the local PD back in the day), tinkerer, Civil War and WWII buff, and all around firearms aficionado. He possessed an encyclopedic knowledge of firearms and their inner workings, and was always genuinely excited to talk guns with anyone who was interested. Since I was the only other "gun nut" in the family, we used to talk for hours about guns and shooting on a regular basis. He was a true patriot, and he loved his country. Years ago when I was young and dumb, I had a wild idea that I was going to open up a gun shop. I had gone so far as to start putting together a rough idea of startup costs, writing a business plan, and researching business loan availability. I called him up to talk it over, assuming he would be excited and maybe offer to give me some advice to get me started. He did offer advice, but it wasn't what I expected. He told me I needed my head examined to even be considering it. He went on to describe life as a gun enthusiast before GCA, FOPA, AWB, etc. He talked about the freedoms he used to know that even in his lifetime had been whittled away to a mere shadow of what they once were. The disgust and obvious contempt he held for those in our government who had trampled the rights he had previously enjoyed surprised me, as I'd never heard that type of sentiment from him before. We talked for a long time, and by the time he had finished, I was already seriously reconsidering my plan. I'm glad we had that discussion and I think of it often whenever I hear of yet another government overstep with regards to firearm ownership. My uncle died in November of 2010, never having seen even a faint glimmer of hope that our rights might be restored someday. RIP, Uncle Tom. I want so bad to win this one for you. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2015 11:42:22 AM EDT
[#40]
I've been lurking everyday since this was posted- Thanks Nolo, keep fighting the good fight.
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Posted: 4/24/2015 12:04:53 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ejeviking: Good story, one that bears repeating. Sorry for your loss and thank you for sharing. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By ejeviking: Originally Posted By DaveyDug: Originally Posted By Undefined: Too many second amendment supporters have died waiting. That short sentence hit me hard. Throughout this whole process, thoughts and memories of my uncle have been popping up randomly, though I haven't really consciously focused on them much. My uncle was the consummate "gun guy" - an old school gunsmith, hand loader, bullet caster (he used to cast bullets for the local PD back in the day), tinkerer, Civil War and WWII buff, and all around firearms aficionado. He possessed an encyclopedic knowledge of firearms and their inner workings, and was always genuinely excited to talk guns with anyone who was interested. Since I was the only other "gun nut" in the family, we used to talk for hours about guns and shooting on a regular basis. He was a true patriot, and he loved his country. Years ago when I was young and dumb, I had a wild idea that I was going to open up a gun shop. I had gone so far as to start putting together a rough idea of startup costs, writing a business plan, and researching business loan availability. I called him up to talk it over, assuming he would be excited and maybe offer to give me some advice to get me started. He did offer advice, but it wasn't what I expected. He told me I needed my head examined to even be considering it. He went on to describe life as a gun enthusiast before GCA, FOPA, AWB, etc. He talked about the freedoms he used to know that even in his lifetime had been whittled away to a mere shadow of what they once were. The disgust and obvious contempt he held for those in our government who had trampled the rights he had previously enjoyed surprised me, as I'd never heard that type of sentiment from him before. We talked for a long time, and by the time he had finished, I was already seriously reconsidering my plan. I'm glad we had that discussion and I think of it often whenever I hear of yet another government overstep with regards to firearm ownership. My uncle died in November of 2010, never having seen even a faint glimmer of hope that our rights might be restored someday. RIP, Uncle Tom. I want so bad to win this one for you.  |
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SC, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2015 12:17:08 PM EDT
[#42]
hopefully this goes forward and I can tell my kids about how shitty it used to be and how many freedoms we've gained back. hopefully. soon.
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2015 12:32:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Cypher214]
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By IHTFP08: hopefully this goes forward and I can tell my kids about how shitty it used to be and how many freedoms we've gained back. hopefully. soon. Damn straight. It's fun to tell new and new-ish shooters about life before 2004... I feel like an old geezer around a campfire saying "back in 'em days... a single Glock mag was $100 and your AR stock wouldn't move at all!! You damn kids don't know real hardship!" |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 1:25:08 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mariner82:
Really? And after the judge specifically asked for young attorneys to brief. Hmmmmm. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Mariner82:
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:
Originally Posted By Conju:
Originally Posted By Maroonfeather: Thank you. Did anyone from DOJ side show up to observe (individuals)? Really? And after the judge specifically asked for young attorneys to brief. Hmmmmm. Well, Soskins is 4'9" and about 87 lbs, so he fits some of the criteria. Whoever said earlier that he looks like Milhouse from the Simpsons was dead-on |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2015 1:45:56 PM EDT
[#45]
so whats going on now? sounds like waiting for more debates or answer?
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Posted: 4/24/2015 1:52:28 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By fattyfat:
Well, Soskins is 4'9" and about 87 lbs, so he fits some of the criteria. Whoever said earlier that he looks like Milhouse from the Simpsons was dead-on They said he reminded them of Professor Frink not Milhouse. Lets focus on the case though. I can't say thank you enough to Nolo and Heller. Give em hell.  
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Posted: 4/24/2015 1:53:36 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RevDeadCorpse:
Amen. Thanks again to Nolo. Cannot be said enough IMO... Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By RevDeadCorpse:
Originally Posted By Undefined:
Originally Posted By NoloContendere:
Originally Posted By Fugitive:
Kicking myself for not buying some beers for Nolo afterwards. I've been trying to buy him beer for 3 years now. Finally got him to take A beer at CW4. Fattyfat bought me and Alan dinner. It was very generous of him. I am glad that the arfommers that showed up were very professional and very nice. We argued past one of the judges docket calls and I turned around the gallery was full of attorneys for the criminal docket. I thought, damn, when did they come in? Lol. Timeframe can really be anything. I've waited up to a year and a half for a ruling, I doubt this court will take that long, but it can truly be a while. So, now we wait and see what happens. I'm working another case on nonviolent felon dispossession that will be quite fun as well. Not filed yet, though. Depending on which aspects of the argument you wish to measure, we've waited between 29 and 81 years.... May the next blogger or so called gun rights advocate that claims these cases are being brought at the wrong time or we are pushing for too much too fast choke on their own bile. We've waited for decades. Anyone who thinks it isn't the right time to demand our rights probably thinks the 1960s were too soon for African Americans to demand their rights, or that women's suffrage should still be on the distant horizon rather than an indisputable reality. Too many second amendment supporters have died waiting. Amen. Thanks again to Nolo. Cannot be said enough IMO... |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 2:01:03 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fugitive:
Exactly my thought. What's $24.00? Even a broke ass, working Joe like me can afford that. The gov's got $Trillions. I think having a judge who doesn't have a lot of pre-concieved ideas about 2A and NFA might work in our favor. Justice is blind and all that. In any event, its wait and see. The wheels turn slow sometimes but we've been putting up with Hugh's since '86. What's a few days, weeks, or even months? Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Fugitive:
Originally Posted By ShooterPatriot:
Originally Posted By tesla120:
Mods should consider moving his to team..... Bacause the DOJ can't buy a membership? Exactly my thought. What's $24.00? Even a broke ass, working Joe like me can afford that. The gov's got $Trillions. I think having a judge who doesn't have a lot of pre-concieved ideas about 2A and NFA might work in our favor. Justice is blind and all that. In any event, its wait and see. The wheels turn slow sometimes but we've been putting up with Hugh's since '86. What's a few days, weeks, or even months? I don't think Team gets crawled by search engines since it's restricted, thus less exposure. Little late I think anyway. Thanks to everyone participating and the best of luck to Nolo and those he's representing |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 4/24/2015 3:02:41 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By d16man:
They also said MG's are not that common, therefore they can ban them, even though the banning is the reason they are not common. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By d16man:
They also said MG's are not that common, therefore they can ban them, even though the banning is the reason they are not common. This is what I've always hated about the Heller opinion. It's vague and ambiguous at best when one is faithful to Miller, but when Miller is ignored, Heller is easily interpreted to say that Congress can ban anything and any new technology it wants as long as they do it prior to the public buying it in large numbers. Hopefully this case (may not be with this judge) shines light on the hypocrisy of Personal Defense Weapon vs Machine Gun and the unreasonableness of defining "common use" as some arbitrary "percent of publicly owned" rather than "what a reasonable person would choose" (and for that I'd consider DoD/DHS/FBI/LEO/etc a reasonable person). That said, I still prefer Nolo's standard: "The right preserved by the Second Amendment requires that it be subject to the highest standard of review, and it plainly commands its own standard: shall not be infringed." Originally Posted By Mariner82:
Originally Posted By jaqufrost:]No. Soskins presented the .gov side. Really? And after the judge specifically asked for young attorneys to brief. Hmmmmm. Not exactly. The judge said she wanted whomever had been putting in long nights behind the scenes and was the central person of the case to appear before her. If that happened to be a young lawyer, good, experience for them. She doesn't want some gray haired partner or someone vying for partner swooping in last minute and taking credit for someone else's hard work. Plus she wanted the person at oral to actually be able to intelligently answer questions should she have them. Both sides sent the person that submitted written briefs. |
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Posted: 4/24/2015 3:04:29 PM EDT
[#50]
NOLO,
For the "dangerous and unusual" we did have a member here that got a Form 1 approved for a hand grenade... |
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