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Posted: 11/27/2018 11:00:26 PM EDT
[#1]
It’s been swell sharing space with you in GD.
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Posted: 11/27/2018 11:06:46 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
I have a 2018 ninja 650 I bought salvaged and fixed up as my first bike. Ive put ~700 miles on it, but now I’m thinking I’d like to move to a liter bike. How drastic is the transition? I’m obviously not finding the ninja to limit me under normal riding conditions, but I feel like I would enjoy knowing I have more top end then ~120, not that I get up there very often. Insurance is the same for both. Thoughts? Is the 1k an instant death sentence like everyone claims, or will I not really notice the extra kick until I actually ask for it? Something like the Ninja will be a bit more mellow and retain a similar riding position as your 650. It will be like getting on your current 650 with a decent torque hit all around. The liter sport bikes can do city riding decently, in fact I'd say they do it a whole lot better than the 600 super sports. It's really not that fun commuting on one though. You'll never get to (legally) use anywhere close to the power on hand, and the temptation is always there. With the 650 (And even the 1000 twin) you can at least thrash the throttle for a bit and enjoy a shift or two. Technically you don't even need to shift any of the modern liter bikes for any city driving as 1st gear will cover it all. They aren't comfortable either, and this is coming from someone who did a half a week camping trip on one with everything strapped to his back just to say that I could. In the end everyones a bit different in what they like, but I've gotten rid of my sport bikes until I can afford more time (and money) into tracking them. Other than that all they ever did was sit in a corner barring a weekend or two for more city-fun bikes. |
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Posted: 11/27/2018 11:11:05 PM EDT
[#3]
How long did it take to do the 700 miles?
That’s a normal weekend of riding for some folks. If that’s your entire experience I’d say wait a year or 12K and ask again. |
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Posted: 11/27/2018 11:12:58 PM EDT
[#4]
Few things in life feel like twisting the throttle of an open class bike.
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Posted: 11/27/2018 11:19:31 PM EDT
[#5]
A whole 700 miles, OMG it's turbo Busa time.
Nobody here can tell you if you are ready for for that kind of jump, I'm not talking about skills cause we all know you don't have any.....yet. We're talking about knowing when and where to use such a bike. I've been riding since I was a wee lad and I'm in my 50s now, My KTM 1190R Adv bike still amazes me on how quick it really is and I've put 15k miles on it this last year. If I would have owned it when I only had 700 miles under my belt I would have been dead by the end of the week. 
ETA, It just struck me on your post that in that 700 miles you have had you little 650 above 120 on multiple occasions, you are prime candidate to have a short life on an open class bike. |
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Posted: 11/27/2018 11:19:46 PM EDT
[#6]
Speed is intoxicating. But if you are doing 120 you are riding in a straight line, you need to learn to lean and really drive that bike. If you want to go fast, go to the track. 700 miles isn't anything. You need to really understand the limits of a motorcycle because they far exceed your limits.
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Posted: 11/27/2018 11:34:05 PM EDT
[#7]
A 1000cc super bike? Or a 1000cc naked bike? BIG difference...but honestly neither are great for a guy with 700 miles under their belt.
I spent 40k miles on an SV650 and still couldn't ride that thing to it's full potential. My vote would be a big no. But really you're the only one that can answer this question. |
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Posted: 11/27/2018 11:35:33 PM EDT
[#8]
Learn to ride your 650 first. 700 miles is nothing. And, it is much harder to learn to ride well on a liter bike. That's a long discussion in itself.
Do some track days on your bike and learn how to control it properly. Then, you'll get a lot more out of whatever bike you move into. |
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Posted: 11/27/2018 11:35:58 PM EDT
[#9]
What you have posted already shows poor judgement and lack of experience. A liter bike is going to get you into a lot more trouble, a lot faster.
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Posted: 11/27/2018 11:39:19 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Few things in life feel like twisting the throttle of an open class bike. Quoted:
How long did it take to do the 700 miles? Snip
Quoted:
A proper sport bike like the ZX10r Snip As a shorter guy at 5’ 7” i actually find myself wishing the pegs on the 650 were a tad higher and father back, with the bars a little lower, but I don’t know how different a more racey bike is. I’m trying to snag a ride on a buddy’s 2017(18?) cbr1000RR to compare. I guess my question becomes, when people suggest against beginning on 1k bikes, is it because the throttle is so responsive it’s easy to dump yourself in a corner, or because they accelerate so fast it’s easy to wreck going into a corner too hot? The former I could understand for myself because I’m inexperienced, but the latter I think I could manage because I simply don’t ride that aggressively in the first place. |
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Posted: 11/27/2018 11:49:32 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A whole 700 miles, OMG it's turbo Busa time.
Nobody here can tell you if you are ready for for that kind of jump, I'm not talking about skills cause we all know you don't have any.....yet. We're talking about knowing when and where to use such a bike. I've been riding since I was a wee lad and I'm in my 50s now, My KTM 1190R Adv bike still amazes me on how quick it really is and I've put 15k miles on it this last year. If I would have owned it when I only had 700 miles under my belt I would have been dead by the end of the week.
ETA, It just struck me on your post that in that 700 miles you have had you little 650 above 120 on multiple occasions, you are prime candidate to have a short life on an open class bike.
The little 650 tops out at 120, it doesn’t go past that 
Only twice on a long straight road with no traffic if that helps! I tapped 120 to see what it would do, I don’t think I’ve touched over 80 on the highway, even when a Nissan mirano wanted to race
I think there’s a difference between knowing I could go fast, and actually doing it, but I don’t know which is why I’m asking here. I’m really trying to figure out when someone says “you’d be dead on a 1k” where they think a crash is going to occur, and how that meshes with my personality. Are we talking accidentally grabbing too much throttle and looping myself into a guardrail, or thinking I’m rossi cause I bought a liter bike and I run into a tree off of a corner? |
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Posted: 11/27/2018 11:51:29 PM EDT
[#12]
What usually happens is: You start riding with other people, some a bit more experienced than you. They carry more speed through the turns than you able to, so you end up giving it a bit more throttle to catch up between turns. This works fine for a while, then at some point you end up coming into a corner that is tighter than you thought it was going to be, you don't think you can make the turn, panic, and end up riding off the road at high speed into the trees. The slightly less common variation is the same, but you end up jabbing at the brakes mid corner and low side, which is a much better crash scenario than the former, but still a crash.
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Posted: 11/27/2018 11:53:12 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What you have posted already shows poor judgement and lack of experience. A liter bike is going to get you into a lot more trouble, a lot faster. What did your sport bike progression look like? |
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Posted: 11/27/2018 11:57:30 PM EDT
[#14]
It's a little bit of both, really. The throttle will be quite a bit more responsive and it doesn't help that the tucked position and lack of thinking that you are thrashing the throttle really hides speed. You can (and will) find yourself going faster than you need to be, simply because the bike is just lofting itself down the road. A corner comes around and surprise, you are doing 90 and you have no idea what to do. All 700 miles of experience tells you to slam on the brakes in a panic and down you go.
I'd rather be able to hit that 5-8k RPM band where things are flat than not be able to hit those rpms at all without getting a felony. |
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Posted: 11/27/2018 11:57:34 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I guess my question becomes, when people suggest against beginning on 1k bikes, is it because the throttle is so responsive it’s easy to dump yourself in a corner, or because they accelerate so fast it’s easy to wreck going into a corner too hot? Like playing basketball for the first time against someone that plays on a high level...you can't even think fast enough to respond to what's happening right in front of you. Or fielding a baseball ripped down the third base line for the first 100 times. You can see it happening but you can't physically react fast enough to do anything about it. This is a liter bike. Things happen at such a rate on these bikes that it's unbelievable. I've been on several 1k's, including a S1000RR...and no thanks. I just don't see the point. 120 is already way too fast, and any monkey can twist the throttle on a straight and reach top speed...takes zero skill. Also, it's far more fun to ride a slow bike fast, than to ride a fast bike slow. Which, unless you're on an airport landing strip, you're going to be doing exactly that on a 1k bike. Again, if you think you can make it work. Give it a shot. I'd just hate to see another statistic when the only real reason you've given is '120 isn't fast enough'. |
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Posted: 11/28/2018 12:05:00 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
cut ETA well ya beat me to it! What did your sport bike progression look like? Some may disagree with me, but a fast bike practically begs to go fast and it makes going fast feel deceptively slow, until something unexpected happens. |
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Posted: 11/28/2018 12:08:38 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Learn to ride your 650 first. 700 miles is nothing. And, it is much harder to learn to ride well on a liter bike. That's a long discussion in itself. Do some track days on your bike and learn how to control it properly. Then, you'll get a lot more out of whatever bike you move into. You got a lotta learning to do, just hope that the lessons are cheap and not too painful. It's a LOT easier to learn to ride on a smaller bike, for lots of reasons. And, to be blunt, if the throttle goes forward, you dont need a bigger engine. Dont be a straight-line squid, learn about corners, traction, power modulation, and CONTROL. Do some track days. |
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Posted: 11/28/2018 12:15:31 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You know when you start doing something new, and everything happens really fast and you have a hard time keeping up with what's going on? Cognitive load is high because everything is extremely new and your brain hasn't figured out what to apply conscious focus on and what to ignore via the sub-conscious. Like playing basketball for the first time against someone that plays on a high level...you can't even think fast enough to respond to what's happening right in front of you. Or fielding a baseball ripped down the third base line for the first 100 times. You can see it happening but you can't physically react fast enough to do anything about it. This is a liter bike. Things happen at such a rate on these bikes that it's unbelievable. I've been on several 1k's, including a S1000RR...and no thanks. I just don't see the point. 120 is already way too fast, and any monkey can twist the throttle on a straight and reach top speed...takes zero skill. Also, it's far more fun to ride a slow bike fast, than to ride a fast bike slow. Which, unless you're on an airport landing strip, you're going to be doing exactly that on a 1k bike. Again, if you think you can make it work. Give it a shot. I'd just hate to see another statistic when the only real reason you've given is '120 isn't fast enough'. I get what you’re saying about not even being able to think fast enough, very good point. |
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Posted: 11/28/2018 12:40:46 AM EDT
[#19]
It's all in the wrist. Only as fast as you want it to be. Faster, yes, but also smoother and lower revving.
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Posted: 11/28/2018 1:01:41 AM EDT
[#20]
personally I want a lot more miles than that before deciding to make that kind of jump.
and several track days. I imagine the 650 you have will surprise you at a track day |
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Posted: 11/28/2018 1:17:00 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’m really trying to figure out when someone says “you’d be dead on a 1k” where they think a crash is going to occur, and how that meshes with my personality. Are we talking accidentally grabbing too much throttle and looping myself into a guardrail, or thinking I’m rossi cause I bought a liter bike and I run into a tree off of a corner? You want something more fun than your 650, get a supermoto, it's even slower yet will make you smile more. I still enjoy riding a supermoto more than any other style of motorcycle. They are very forgiving and very capable, it's the ultimate learner through expert bike. There isn't a rider out there that wouldn't learn better skills with time put on one. |
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Posted: 11/28/2018 6:58:29 AM EDT
[#22]
Your 650 ninja has about 72 horsepower. A liter sport bike has nearly 200. Its going to be a massive difference, and as said above with 700 miles under your belt things are going to happen so quick you will not be able to comprehend and react correctly fast enough. Bad idea man.
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Posted: 11/28/2018 8:34:02 AM EDT
[#23]
Keep riding your 650 until you think you're wringing it all out.
I have an '07 ninja 650 that's my loaner/backup track bike. It takes someone with a lot of skill to pass me in the twisties even on that clapped out pos. |
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Posted: 11/28/2018 9:15:54 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You want something more fun than your 650, get a supermoto, it's even slower yet will make you smile more. I still enjoy riding a supermoto more than any other style of motorcycle. They are very forgiving and very capable, it's the ultimate learner through expert bike. There isn't a rider out there that wouldn't learn better skills with time put on one. Nothing makes me feel more like a hero than a Supemoto. And I'm the guy that enjoys schooling kids on sportbikes while riding a R1200GSA on knobbies. |
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Posted: 11/28/2018 10:00:04 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's all in the wrist. Only as fast as you want it to be. Faster, yes, but also smoother and lower revving. The first bike I bought when I was 21 was a liter bike. A 2008 FZ1. I still have one, a newer model, and I've got around 28k miles under my belt on one. Never came close to dropping it yet (except for that one time when I found sand in a corner...which is also the first time I've ever scraped a peg). My chicken strips are small, but I ride for fun...not to push the limits. Pushing the limits can get expensive (and painful) fast... |
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Posted: 11/28/2018 10:09:40 AM EDT
[#26]
I would not really consider a ninja 650 as a proper 600 sport bike. In reality, The difference between your 650 a liter bike is pretty drastic. I would not underestimate the modern 600, it’s a fantastic bike. I have owned over 30 motorcycles and only three of them were not 600s pick up a 2008 or newer Yamaha R6 and you will be GTG.
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Posted: 11/28/2018 10:25:42 AM EDT
[#27]
comparison you can understand.
You're a 16 yr old in his first honda civic for a week and think youre ready for a Ferrari. Sure they're both cars and drive similarly at 35mph.... the similarities end there. if youre dead set on looking cooler... the likely motivation..... get a 600 sport bike Thats the jump from civic to ss camaro...... You may think the ferrari comparison is silly... and it is.... because the liter bike is much faster than a Ferrari |
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Posted: 11/28/2018 10:57:36 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would not really consider a ninja 650 as a proper 600 sport bike. In reality, The difference between your 650 a liter bike is pretty drastic. I would not underestimate the modern 600, it’s a fantastic bike. I have owned over 30 motorcycles and only three of them were not 600s pick up a 2008 or newer Yamaha R6 and you will be GTG. The main reason I stick to L twins on the street. The I4 standards are also great as they're tuned more for torque in the street riding RPM range instead of all out balls to the wall power up top which is great for racing/track riding, but IMO junk for honest street riding. The 1k's have the benefit of having such an over abundance of power which gives them enough down low to be useful given the similar weight of the bike to the 600 class bikes. |
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Posted: 11/28/2018 12:38:55 PM EDT
[#29]
@-Time-
You are a new rider, with 700 miles, and you think you are "ready" for a 1k? Let me tell you, from a fellow new rider this season, with 3k miles this fall, and a couple trips through Cherohala Skyway, and the Tail of the Dragon, you are in no shape to be riding a liter bike. Case in point. I personally stress absolute control over speed, and my personal bike is an FZ07. Last ride this season I fuckin ate it, and I put the bike up for the season. Getting too cold, wet, and leaves were starting to cone down. It was time. I lost controll over an off camber corner where, with all 60hp, unloaded the suspension and I panick grabed brakes, locked it up, and lowsided into a fence. It went down exactly how the above poster said it happens. And I was in the same spot as you. Bike tops out at 110ish, and I was looking to get an FZ09. Now I know I need a lot more time before I even think about stepping up. PM me if you have any questions. Edit: The bike you have, and the bike you "want" to go to are in two completely different worlds. I don't think you realize how fuckin fast a liter bike is, and how quick it can get there. To put it in perspective, that's like going from a Civic to a 1k AWHP GTR, and I am no stranger to fast cars. My daily is a 750whp CTS-V and can break into the 9s in the 1/4 on a good day. When you get a couple years on the bike you have, you need to look at 600cc supersports first, before you think about a 1k. |
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Posted: 11/28/2018 1:14:04 PM EDT
[#30]
Get your bike on the track and learn to ride it then maybe go to a 600 superport.
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Posted: 11/28/2018 2:11:11 PM EDT
[#31]
The insurance on a ninja 640 is the same as a S1000RR? I had to pass on a S1000R because the insurance was crazy something like $150-$200 a month but the 06 Speed Triple I bought was like $20 a month.
As has been stated you are moving from a not fast 650 to one of the fastest 1000s. I would definitely recommend finding middle ground if you are determined to replace your bike. |
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Posted: 11/28/2018 2:53:08 PM EDT
[#32]
The 650 Ninja is a perfect commuter bike. We have one. Technically its my wifes but I have ridden it more than she has. It has decent grunt and its light and fun.
I also have a CBR1100XX a Speed Triple 1050 and a Tiger 1050 so I rarely ride the ninja. I would say particularly since its a rebuilt bike and not going to be worth a lot you should keep it even if you get another bike unless you just dont have room. The only real gripe about the Ninja is the insane puzzle box of a fairing it has. Liter bikes are not a death sentence but it depends on the rider and on the bike. All bikes are very different. My XX is pretty docile on the low end and very stable at any speed. You have to twist it hard to really get scary but when you do you better be hanging on because it will hit 150mph like absolutely nothing. The Speed Triple on the other hand I have accidentally wheelied thru intersections a couple times despite having ridden since I was a kid and having owned the S3 for years. I think its a bike that an inexperienced rider could easily crash due to how easily the front end wants to point at the sky but its also very small and light and easier to man-handle. Just make sure you wear your gear and don't get all ham fisted and you should be fine but there is definitely the potential for it to get away from you much more easily than the Ninja. |
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Posted: 11/28/2018 4:16:41 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The insurance on a ninja 640 is the same as a S1000RR? I had to pass on a S1000R because the insurance was crazy something like $150-$200 a month but the 06 Speed Triple I bought was like $20 a month. As has been stated you are moving from a not fast 650 to one of the fastest 1000s. I would definitely recommend finding middle ground if you are determined to replace your bike. What would your opinion be on a liter bike in a lower power mode? for any of the guys who petition starting on smaller bikes really, would a 1000cc machine at 60% power not be the basic equivalent to an actually 600cc super sport? It seems one camp is basically, “have self control and you’ll be fine” and the other is “you won’t learn shit and you’re very likely to fuck yourself up” is there a middle ground on a restricted liter bike? |
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Posted: 11/28/2018 4:18:09 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Get your bike on the track and learn to ride it then maybe go to a 600 superport. |
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Posted: 11/28/2018 4:23:11 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You’re relatively close in NY, know of any tracks around MD? From my brief look I can only find dirt stuff in Maryland. Summit Point WV VIR Virginia. N2 trackdays hits most tracks up and down the east coast |
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Posted: 11/28/2018 4:23:36 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: On the street? I'm not a fan of 600 class super sports on the street. If I were to ride an I4 sport bike on the street(which I wouldn't), it would be a 1k because the 600's just don't have the grunt down in the street riding RPM range. I constantly have to be swapping gears to get it in the power. The main reason I stick to L twins on the street. The I4 standards are also great as they're tuned more for torque in the street riding RPM range instead of all out balls to the wall power up top which is great for racing/track riding, but IMO junk for honest street riding. The 1k's have the benefit of having such an over abundance of power which gives them enough down low to be useful given the similar weight of the bike to the 600 class bikes. |
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Posted: 11/28/2018 4:37:11 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@-Time- Snip Quote HistoryQuoted:
@-Time- Snip My question then is, how do you determine a metric to decide if you’re ready? If you’re riding as safe as possible, you would theoretically never get close to edge of traction, and therefore never find the limit of a corner, no matter what bike you’re on, so the more power argument is moot because you wouldn’t be using it in corners. Obviously this doesn’t reflect reality because pushing boundaries is fun, and then the argument becomes that the capacity for injury is higher, therefore you should shy away from liter bikes. Not suggesting I have the correct personality to start on a 1k, but for someone that you believed had a tentative and calm enough personality, could you comfortably recommend a liter bike as a first bike, knowing that they could be responsible with the power, and simply don’t in general because most people don’t have that character type, or am I missing something? Quoted: Pitt Race near Pittsburgh Summit Point WV VIR Virginia. N2 trackdays hits most tracks up and down the east coast |
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Posted: 11/28/2018 4:43:58 PM EDT
[#38]
Have you thought of something bigger yet, not 1k big?
Something like a Ducati 848/959? 848's can be had at a pretty good price these days, they have the definite 'cool' factor, full race, sounds amazing, and they're faster than the 650 without being crazy. I might be biased...I love my 848. SV1000S - Less cool, cheaper, and faster without being nuts. Any other 800-1000cc L-Twin style bike or even any large displacement standard bike. So many options out there...but if you want a 1k, and nothing else is going to scratch that itch, go get one. |
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Posted: 11/28/2018 5:27:14 PM EDT
[#39]
for me the power of a 1000 is as intoxicating as anything Ive ever tried. Ive tried drugs & just meh. I drink weekly & could quit tomorrow.
Love getting on one every once in a while. Would die or be in jail if I owned one. but but I'm different. I'll ride it slow. Like getting a hot gf to go celibate. What's the point. Ive seen this same stupid argument from a 1000 newbs. Some got lucky. Others died. Most got some level of mangled and never rode again. My experience is jaded because I was in the motorcycle business for a long time. I didnt just deal with my circle of friends.... I saw lots people's friends. I saw them as excited new riders that were sure they could handle it. and then I saw their parents spouses & kids and heard the sad storiess after that all sound pretty similar. They all usually start much like yours here. Riding is an art you'll never master. The trick is to live long enough to try. What's the hurry dude walk down n fuck em all. Good luck on your new 1000 though because Anyone that asks this question never listened. |
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Posted: 11/28/2018 5:39:21 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Liability, no point in me putting full coverage on a bike I have so little in, and I would buy a wrecked s1k to fix long before I bought a brand new bike. What would your opinion be on a liter bike in a lower power mode? for any of the guys who petition starting on smaller bikes really, would a 1000cc machine at 60% power not be the basic equivalent to an actually 600cc super sport? It seems one camp is basically, “have self control and you’ll be fine” and the other is “you won’t learn shit and you’re very likely to fuck yourself up” is there a middle ground on a restricted liter bike? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The insurance on a ninja 640 is the same as a S1000RR? I had to pass on a S1000R because the insurance was crazy something like $150-$200 a month but the 06 Speed Triple I bought was like $20 a month. As has been stated you are moving from a not fast 650 to one of the fastest 1000s. I would definitely recommend finding middle ground if you are determined to replace your bike. What would your opinion be on a liter bike in a lower power mode? for any of the guys who petition starting on smaller bikes really, would a 1000cc machine at 60% power not be the basic equivalent to an actually 600cc super sport? It seems one camp is basically, “have self control and you’ll be fine” and the other is “you won’t learn shit and you’re very likely to fuck yourself up” is there a middle ground on a restricted liter bike? What everyone is saying is that someone with so few hours is at a much higher rate of getting themselves in trouble on a liter bike. Most people just don’t realize how crazy they are. In the end it’s up to you but like everything in life it’s all good till it’s not and on a motorcycle that can mean the end of your life. |
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Posted: 11/28/2018 6:12:05 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They all usually start much like yours here. Riding is an art you'll never master. The trick is to live long enough to try. What's the hurry dude walk down n fuck em all. Good luck on your new 1000 though because Anyone that asks this question never listened. |
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Posted: 11/28/2018 6:27:50 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: for me the power of a 1000 is as intoxicating as anything Ive ever tried. Ive tried drugs & just meh. I drink weekly & could quit tomorrow. Love getting on one every once in a while. Would die or be in jail if I owned one. but but I'm different. I'll ride it slow. Like getting a hot gf to go celibate. What's the point. Ive seen this same stupid argument from a 1000 newbs. Some got lucky. Others died. Most got some level of mangled and never rode again. My experience is jaded because I was in the motorcycle business for a long time. I didnt just deal with my circle of friends.... I saw lots people's friends. I saw them as excited new riders that were sure they could handle it. and then I saw their parents spouses & kids and heard the sad storiess after that all sound pretty similar. They all usually start much like yours here. Riding is an art you'll never master. The trick is to live long enough to try. What's the hurry dude walk down n fuck em all. Good luck on your new 1000 though because Anyone that asks this question never listened. Quote HistoryQuoted: for me the power of a 1000 is as intoxicating as anything Ive ever tried. Ive tried drugs & just meh. I drink weekly & could quit tomorrow. Love getting on one every once in a while. Would die or be in jail if I owned one. but but I'm different. I'll ride it slow. Like getting a hot gf to go celibate. What's the point. Ive seen this same stupid argument from a 1000 newbs. Some got lucky. Others died. Most got some level of mangled and never rode again. My experience is jaded because I was in the motorcycle business for a long time. I didnt just deal with my circle of friends.... I saw lots people's friends. I saw them as excited new riders that were sure they could handle it. and then I saw their parents spouses & kids and heard the sad storiess after that all sound pretty similar. They all usually start much like yours here. Riding is an art you'll never master. The trick is to live long enough to try. What's the hurry dude walk down n fuck em all. Good luck on your new 1000 though because Anyone that asks this question never listened. Quoted: I just want to let everyone know I appreciate their time and patience, I hope my asking further questions doesn’t come off as being hard headed and not listening, I am, I just sometimes need a why to better comprehend, rather than just being told no, so thank you. |
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Posted: 11/28/2018 6:36:17 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My question then is, how do you determine a metric to decide if you’re ready? If you’re riding as safe as possible, you would theoretically never get close to edge of traction, and therefore never find the limit of a corner, no matter what bike you’re on, so the more power argument is moot because you wouldn’t be using it in corners. Obviously this doesn’t reflect reality because pushing boundaries is fun, and then the argument becomes that the capacity for injury is higher, therefore you should shy away from liter bikes. Thanks! This argument really isn't about safety, you threw that out the window when you bought a motorcycle, this is an argument about gaining a good skillset to ride well. Tip toeing around on a liter class super sport will not get you those skills quicker, it will hinder your progress bigly. The skillset you'll be lagging on learning are the ones that keep you alive when you are riding along " safely as possible " and the deer jumps out, or the rock falls, or the car pulls out, ad infinity. There are million ways for something not in your control to fuck you hard. The less time and miles you can spend learning what to do at the bikes max ( or close to ) the less likely one of those things will happen to you before you have the capability to avoid the things not in your control. |
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Posted: 11/28/2018 6:48:04 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Jeremy223 pretty much laid out what is going to happen, Speed comes QUICKLY between corners even when you are not giving it the beans. You probably aren't even using 1/2 of the braking available to you at this point in your riding. My guess is you'll realize you are coming in way too hot and grab what you think is a little too much brake, the rear end will wiggle and you'll freak the fuck out and let go of the brakes completely ( shame, you were just starting to learn what it feels like when you are backing it in ). Then you will look at a tree/gardrail/cliff/car/rock on the outside of the corner, target fixate and that is exactly where you will end up, I've personally watched more than one guy do it. You'll be laying there thinking " man that happened fast " and hopefully you'll be OK, there is always that possibility you'll be all fucked up and need a helo ride or worse, worse not being dead, worse meaning you wish you had already died because you can't move your arms/legs and you shit yourself but the only way you can tell is the smell cause your certainly can't FEEL the wet load in your shorts. Learn the skills on the slower bikes first, you'll have a lot more time to feel and understand what the evil 2 wheeled death machine is trying to tell you while you work on interpreting what to do from the information you are getting. The feedback loop you need to make it work isn't something you get by chance, you have to work for it and pay for in seat time, LOTS and LOTS of seat time. You want something more fun than your 650, get a supermoto, it's even slower yet will make you smile more. I still enjoy riding a supermoto more than any other style of motorcycle. They are very forgiving and very capable, it's the ultimate learner through expert bike. There isn't a rider out there that wouldn't learn better skills with time put on one.
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Posted: 11/28/2018 6:56:07 PM EDT
[#45]
I had a 2008 ninja 650r and put over 70k miles on it before I jumped to a bigger bike. The 650r is a tame little pipsqueek compared to a liter bike. you would be much better off getting a 600 or like I did and a get something like a Triumph triple.
Then again I like my body parts where they are. YMMV. eta read thru all the posts, other good suggestion is the duc 848. I ended up with my MV because Duc went with a regular 2 sided swingarm
Even my MV F3 675 still surprises me a bit after 5k miles. 650r 65HP MV 675 F3 128HP BMW S1kRR 193HP Ye nope, Even after 15 years riding total and over 75k miles between bikes (70k 650r, 5k MV) |
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Posted: 11/28/2018 6:59:04 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A whole 700 miles, OMG it's turbo Busa time.
Nobody here can tell you if you are ready for for that kind of jump, I'm not talking about skills cause we all know you don't have any.....yet. We're talking about knowing when and where to use such a bike. I've been riding since I was a wee lad and I'm in my 50s now, My KTM 1190R Adv bike still amazes me on how quick it really is and I've put 15k miles on it this last year. If I would have owned it when I only had 700 miles under my belt I would have been dead by the end of the week.
ETA, It just struck me on your post that in that 700 miles you have had you little 650 above 120 on multiple occasions, you are prime candidate to have a short life on an open class bike. OP, maybe there is a nice bike in between what you have now and a 1000cc sport bike? Who wudda thunk? |
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Posted: 11/28/2018 7:18:22 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This guy knows what's up. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Jeremy223 pretty much laid out what is going to happen, Speed comes QUICKLY between corners even when you are not giving it the beans. You probably aren't even using 1/2 of the braking available to you at this point in your riding. My guess is you'll realize you are coming in way too hot and grab what you think is a little too much brake, the rear end will wiggle and you'll freak the fuck out and let go of the brakes completely ( shame, you were just starting to learn what it feels like when you are backing it in ). Then you will look at a tree/gardrail/cliff/car/rock on the outside of the corner, target fixate and that is exactly where you will end up, I've personally watched more than one guy do it. You'll be laying there thinking " man that happened fast " and hopefully you'll be OK, there is always that possibility you'll be all fucked up and need a helo ride or worse, worse not being dead, worse meaning you wish you had already died because you can't move your arms/legs and you shit yourself but the only way you can tell is the smell cause your certainly can't FEEL the wet load in your shorts. Learn the skills on the slower bikes first, you'll have a lot more time to feel and understand what the evil 2 wheeled death machine is trying to tell you while you work on interpreting what to do from the information you are getting. The feedback loop you need to make it work isn't something you get by chance, you have to work for it and pay for in seat time, LOTS and LOTS of seat time. You want something more fun than your 650, get a supermoto, it's even slower yet will make you smile more. I still enjoy riding a supermoto more than any other style of motorcycle. They are very forgiving and very capable, it's the ultimate learner through expert bike. There isn't a rider out there that wouldn't learn better skills with time put on one. he's right....... I did it 2nd day on my 1000 and it was a 1986 with 65hp |
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Posted: 11/28/2018 8:08:53 PM EDT
[#48]
OP, good luck. There's more to engines than just a cc#.
Try different styles until you find the engine type that speaks to you before you worry about how big it is. |
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Posted: 11/28/2018 8:17:04 PM EDT
[#49]
You control the machine
If you're mature/smart enough it shouldn't matter what you're riding. It's the same as telling people they should start shooting with a .22 or start reloading on a single stage press... Buy what you want and don't behave like a fool. |
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Posted: 11/28/2018 8:19:47 PM EDT
[#50]
I can see that the Ninja 650 may not be the most exciting bike ever, but there’s some solid advice in this thread from experienced guys.
One bit, the track. You can learn more in one track day, maybe 100mi, then you can in 10k street miles. A well ridden 650 can humiliate a poorly ridden liter bike. A poorly ridden liter bike can get you killed. Quickly. Whacking the throttle open a literbike is an intoxicating rush.......one that most speed junkies cannot resist. If you don’t know what you’re doing, it can tie you into knots before you can even process it. It’s much more fun to ride a slow bike fast than a fast bike slow. Welcome to the world of two wheels. It’s an absolute blast. Just take a bit of time before you throw a leg over something as intense as a 1k bike. |
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