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Link Posted: 5/14/2024 10:46:39 PM EDT
[#1]
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Originally Posted By pineywoodsbuck:
The pre-golden tablet era of Joseph Smith, was notorious for stealing people's money, he was an absolute con man. He had to flee from every town he lived in because he had freaked out the townspeople with his affinity for married women and 13-year-old girls.
He wanted to make himself King Jospeh, this was after he became mayor of Nauvoo Illinois where he had the town's first newspaper destroyed because it printed critical articles of his theocratic "king" beliefs.
Eventually, 200 of the town's God-fearing citizens had enough of him and killed him.

Then, to keep the sex cult going, Bringham Young took it over and moved the group to Salt Lake City Utah - they had to go that far out west in 1840 because no one wanted them around. After all, their beliefs were so radical and not tolerated by men with young girls and wives.

This came from Wikipedia
View Quote


The sequence of events that drove them to Illinois also makes for interesting reading.
Link Posted: 5/14/2024 10:53:18 PM EDT
[#2]
Lol.

Link Posted: 5/14/2024 10:53:55 PM EDT
[#3]
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Originally Posted By patsue:  Orthodox Christianity has always stood on the eternally preexistent Christ of John 1:1 and 1:14 and much more both old and New Testament.  Mormons don’t.  It is just that simple.  My whole family on my dad’s side is Mormon and they admit this.  The Christ of the LDS Church is not compatible in any way that is important with the Christ of the Bible. It was Joseph Smith and his followers who came along and redefined this. It doesn’t matter who is on the cross and how you define Son of God if one is eternally preexistent and the other isn’t. Not an insult.  Just core theology of who Christ actually is.  Patrick Swayze
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Link Posted: 5/14/2024 11:06:31 PM EDT
[#4]
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Originally Posted By callmestick:


Horse shit.  No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to buy property in those nice neighbor hoods.  You can always buy land out in the county to build your dream favala.
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If they buy the property there, it’s theirs to do with as they see fit. Anyone arguing otherwise has a common thought process with the socialists that there needs to be some form of governance over other peoples property.
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 12:12:52 AM EDT
[#5]
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Originally Posted By Landsat8:


The Tijuana, Mexico Temple is definitely one of my favorites.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/416227/IMG_9083_jpeg-3214268.JPG
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Originally Posted By Landsat8:
Originally Posted By Ryan_Scott:


Most Mormon temples are kind of modern/art deco. They’d be better off with gothic, neoclassical or even Romanesque.


The Tijuana, Mexico Temple is definitely one of my favorites.

https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/416227/IMG_9083_jpeg-3214268.JPG


That's spectacular.

10/10 would let them build that next to my house.
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 12:29:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 56xdx_Z] [#6]
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Originally Posted By pineywoodsbuck:
The pre-golden tablet era of Joseph Smith, was notorious for stealing people's money, he was an absolute con man. He had to flee from every town he lived in because he had freaked out the townspeople with his affinity for married women and 13-year-old girls.
He wanted to make himself King Jospeh, this was after he became mayor of Nauvoo Illinois where he had the town's first newspaper destroyed because it printed critical articles of his theocratic "king" beliefs.
Eventually, 200 of the town's God-fearing citizens had enough of him and killed him.

Then, to keep the sex cult going, Bringham Young took it over and moved the group to Salt Lake City Utah - they had to go that far out west in 1840 because no one wanted them around. After all, their beliefs were so radical and not tolerated by men with young girls and wives.

This came from Wikipedia
View Quote


What a nut. In my mind, Joseph Smith's idea the God the Father was once a man who gained godhood, was a fantasy about himself becoming God
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 2:52:49 AM EDT
[#7]
This is wild testimony from today.

Height & Light: Essential for Worship, LDS Lawyer Says at Planning Meeting for Lone MT NV Temple
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 6:57:48 AM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By eagarminuteman:

If they buy the property there, it’s theirs to do with as they see fit. Anyone arguing otherwise has a common thought process with the socialists that there needs to be some form of governance over other peoples property.
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That's a moronic take. The city had established zoning laws and restrictions on building height well before the Mormons even contemplated building their temple there. People coming together and establishing rules to keep nuisances out of their residential neighborhood isn't 'socialism'
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 7:00:30 AM EDT
[#9]
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Originally Posted By MartinSsempa:


That's a moronic take. The city had established zoning laws and restrictions on building height well before the Mormons even contemplated building their temple there. People coming together and establishing rules to keep nuisances out of their residential neighborhood isn't 'socialism'
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Originally Posted By MartinSsempa:
Originally Posted By eagarminuteman:

If they buy the property there, it’s theirs to do with as they see fit. Anyone arguing otherwise has a common thought process with the socialists that there needs to be some form of governance over other peoples property.


That's a moronic take. The city had established zoning laws and restrictions on building height well before the Mormons even contemplated building their temple there. People coming together and establishing rules to keep nuisances out of their residential neighborhood isn't 'socialism'

For the greater good.
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 7:31:09 AM EDT
[#10]
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Originally Posted By sabocat:


The sequence of events that drove them to Illinois also makes for interesting reading.
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Originally Posted By sabocat:
Originally Posted By pineywoodsbuck:
The pre-golden tablet era of Joseph Smith, was notorious for stealing people's money, he was an absolute con man. He had to flee from every town he lived in because he had freaked out the townspeople with his affinity for married women and 13-year-old girls.
He wanted to make himself King Jospeh, this was after he became mayor of Nauvoo Illinois where he had the town's first newspaper destroyed because it printed critical articles of his theocratic "king" beliefs.
Eventually, 200 of the town's God-fearing citizens had enough of him and killed him.

Then, to keep the sex cult going, Bringham Young took it over and moved the group to Salt Lake City Utah - they had to go that far out west in 1840 because no one wanted them around. After all, their beliefs were so radical and not tolerated by men with young girls and wives.

This came from Wikipedia


The sequence of events that drove them to Illinois also makes for interesting reading.


There were Mormon settlements led by James Strang in Wisconsin and Michigan too.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voree,_Wisconsin

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_Print_Shop

Link Posted: 5/15/2024 8:28:42 AM EDT
[#11]
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Originally Posted By AbleArcher:

For the greater good.
View Quote

It’s a bit wild how little people know what the defining traits of capitalism are and what the defining traits of socialism are.
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 9:11:39 AM EDT
[#12]
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Originally Posted By fingas:
Should the people of Fairview not be able to collectively decide that they don't want to live among tall buildings?
View Quote

Should the people of California not be able to collectively decide that they don’t want to live among so called “assault weapons”?
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 10:20:04 AM EDT
[#13]
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 10:22:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: BMSMB] [#14]
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Originally Posted By Zhukov:

I don't see it that way. There's no gatekeeping because nothing I say will keep a Mormon person from worshiping in the way they want to nor will it affect any kind of "access" to something I have. What exactly am I guarding the gate for? I can't stop what anyone else does. The argument in here is merely academic and comes down to definitions.
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Isnt this a thread about actively trying to stop the Mormons from building places of worship, with many comments in support of the opposition because "Mormon bad"?
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 10:24:10 AM EDT
[#15]
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 10:24:21 AM EDT
[#16]
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 10:26:42 AM EDT
[#17]
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 10:33:08 AM EDT
[#18]
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Originally Posted By eagarminuteman:

It’s a bit wild how little people know what the defining traits of capitalism are and what the defining traits of socialism are.
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Originally Posted By eagarminuteman:
Originally Posted By AbleArcher:

For the greater good.

It’s a bit wild how little people know what the defining traits of capitalism are and what the defining traits of socialism are.


Who knew George Washington was a socialist.
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 10:37:21 AM EDT
[#19]
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Originally Posted By thedownzero:

Should the people of California not be able to collectively decide that they don’t want to live among so called “assault weapons”?
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Originally Posted By thedownzero:
Originally Posted By fingas:
Should the people of Fairview not be able to collectively decide that they don't want to live among tall buildings?

Should the people of California not be able to collectively decide that they don’t want to live among so called “assault weapons”?

Should a specific religion be forced down their throats?  

Our freedoms (all of them) demand  a very high level of responsibility.
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 10:38:58 AM EDT
[#20]
At least 4 mods and staff up in this thread and it’s still going.

Link Posted: 5/15/2024 10:40:28 AM EDT
[#21]
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Originally Posted By exDefensorMilitas:


Who knew George Washington was a socialist.
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Now you’re just putting words in my mouth lol. I haven’t even called anyone a socialist, just that they share a thought process with the ideology. Pure capitalism wouldn’t have things such as zoning laws because private property rights are a core tenet of the system. It’s how the system works. Governmental regulation of private property “for the good of the community” is not a capitalist idea.
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 10:41:45 AM EDT
[#22]
Tell them you will build a Mosque next door
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 10:43:39 AM EDT
[#23]
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Originally Posted By BTccw:

Should a specific religion be forced down their throats?  

Our freedoms (all of them) demand  a very high level of responsibility.
View Quote

I fail to see how a building in town is synonymous with a religion being forced down their throats. Are we gonna start claiming that any mosques or cathedrals are religion being forced down our throats?
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 10:48:06 AM EDT
[#24]
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Originally Posted By nightstalker:
Tell them you will build a Mosque next door
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Both religions are based on sex.
Both are works based.
Both worship a false “God”.
One has a better marketing plan.

Who could tell the difference?  

Link Posted: 5/15/2024 10:50:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: BTccw] [#25]
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Originally Posted By eagarminuteman:

I fail to see how a building in town is synonymous with a religion being forced down their throats. Are we gonna start claiming that any mosques or cathedrals are religion being forced down our throats?
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Originally Posted By eagarminuteman:
Originally Posted By BTccw:

Should a specific religion be forced down their throats?  

Our freedoms (all of them) demand  a very high level of responsibility.

I fail to see how a building in town is synonymous with a religion being forced down their throats. Are we gonna start claiming that any mosques or cathedrals are religion being forced down our throats?


Except those “temples” are built in such a way as to draw EVERYONES’s attention to them.  Are you going to REQUIRE everyone to own a gun?

I would agree with your Mosque and Cathedral analogy.  They are designed for the same purpose…. By equally ungodly men.
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 10:53:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Fushaw] [#26]
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Originally Posted By BTccw:



Both religions are based on sex.
Both are works based.
Both worship a false “God”.
One has a better marketing plan.

Who could tell the difference?  

View Quote


The radical Mormons are coming to a town near you to commit genocide, rape your goats, and institute religious law and stone the infidels...
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 10:54:09 AM EDT
[#27]
*is surprised this thread is still going*
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 10:54:54 AM EDT
[#28]
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 10:55:19 AM EDT
[#29]
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Originally Posted By BTccw:


Except those “temples” are built in such a way as to draw EVERYONES’s attention to them.  Are you going to REQUIRE everyone to own a gun?
View Quote

So because they build their places of worship in the way they desire, it’s somehow being forced down their throat lol. Don’t like it, don’t look. Simple as.

And no I don’t require anyone to do anything, that’s not how freedom works. Even when I disagree with what people are doing with their property.
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 11:02:37 AM EDT
[#30]
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Originally Posted By eagarminuteman:

So because they build their places of worship in the way they desire, it’s somehow being forced down their throat lol. Don’t like it, don’t look. Simple as.


And no I don’t require anyone to do anything, that’s not how freedom works. Even when I disagree with what people are doing with their property.
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Originally Posted By eagarminuteman:
Originally Posted By BTccw:


Except those “temples” are built in such a way as to draw EVERYONES’s attention to them.  Are you going to REQUIRE everyone to own a gun?

So because they build their places of worship in the way they desire, it’s somehow being forced down their throat lol. Don’t like it, don’t look. Simple as.


And no I don’t require anyone to do anything, that’s not how freedom works. Even when I disagree with what people are doing with their property.


Apparently you don’t have as much experience with LDS temples as I do. You can’t NOT see them…. From everywhere. That is what they are designed for…..that IS their purpose. So yeah, they are forcing their religion down my throat-and people using your argument now wish to restrict my eyesight—-


Link Posted: 5/15/2024 11:03:52 AM EDT
[#31]
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Originally Posted By Zhukov:

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Originally Posted By Zhukov:
Originally Posted By BTccw:

Both religions are based on sex.
Both are works based.
Both worship a false "God".
One has a better marketing plan.

Who could tell the difference?  



Nothing I said is untrue… is it?  
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 11:03:57 AM EDT
[#32]
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 11:05:34 AM EDT
[#33]
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Originally Posted By Fushaw:


The radical Mormons are coming to a town near you to commit genocide, rape your goats, and institute religious law and stone the infidels...
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Originally Posted By Fushaw:
Originally Posted By BTccw:



Both religions are based on sex.
Both are works based.
Both worship a false “God”.
One has a better marketing plan.

Who could tell the difference?  



The radical Mormons are coming to a town near you to commit genocide, rape your goats, and institute religious law and stone the infidels...


Like I said-one has a better marketing plan.
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 11:06:20 AM EDT
[#34]
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Originally Posted By BTccw:


Like I said-one has a better marketing plan.
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LOL
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 11:06:33 AM EDT
[#35]
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 11:07:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: medicmandan] [#36]
[Deleted]
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 11:09:37 AM EDT
[#37]
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Originally Posted By BTccw:


Apparently you don’t have as much experience with LDS temples as I do. You can’t NOT see them…. From everywhere. That is what they are designed for…..that IS their purpose. So yeah, they are forcing their religion down my throat-and people using your argument now wish to restrict my eyesight—-


View Quote

Notre Dame cathedral must be forcing religion down Parisians throats since it’s big and you can see it. And how dare they build a building on property they bought.

Church buildings forcing religion down your throat sounds awfully similar the leftist claim of “words are violence” lol
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 11:10:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: medicmandan] [#38]

Now your attitude towards this situation makes sense.
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 11:11:20 AM EDT
[#39]
it could be worse...


Link Posted: 5/15/2024 11:11:43 AM EDT
[#40]
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Originally Posted By Zhukov:

Oh - you're actually getting back on topic. No fair!

Yeah, I fully agree with you that the city's attempt to squash the building of the church is complete BS, although I don't see it so much as "Gatekeeping Mormons" as much as the NIMBY mentality so many suburbanites succumb to. I'm pretty sure they'd be up in arms if another church came along and tried to plop in a mega structure.
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Originally Posted By Zhukov:
Originally Posted By BMSMB:

Isnt this a thread about actively trying to stop the Mormons from building places of worship, with many comments in support of the opposition because "Mormon bad"?

Oh - you're actually getting back on topic. No fair!

Yeah, I fully agree with you that the city's attempt to squash the building of the church is complete BS, although I don't see it so much as "Gatekeeping Mormons" as much as the NIMBY mentality so many suburbanites succumb to. I'm pretty sure they'd be up in arms if another church came along and tried to plop in a mega structure.
To be fair, their proposed building plan violates the zoning laws.  Not broadly defending zoning laws here, but a city refusing to grant a zoning exemption isn't the same thing as squashing a building.  Counties and municipalities grant or deny zoning variances all the time and public comment and other soft concerns are ALWAYS an issue.  The Mormon church or whatever it is, isn't special in that regard.  It would also be inaccurate to describe their attempts to legally circumvent the zoning variance denial as "lawfare".

Now, if they decided to start legal campaigns against politicians, using trumped up charges, contortions of law, slander, etc in order to prevent the council or board from doing their job and destroy their lives, then that would be one way to earn the "lawfare badge".
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 11:14:46 AM EDT
[#41]
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Originally Posted By Zhukov:

That is a cunning game you're trying to play with the phrasing in your argument. I could point out how some of the traits you believe in were also shared by some very unsavory group (take your pick) and then try to draw a similar analogy, then coyly respond with "did I say something untrue?" when you object.

I disagree with Mormon theology but your attempt to smear them the same as Islam is ridiculous.
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Originally Posted By Zhukov:
Originally Posted By BTccw:

Nothing I said is untrue  is it?  

That is a cunning game you're trying to play with the phrasing in your argument. I could point out how some of the traits you believe in were also shared by some very unsavory group (take your pick) and then try to draw a similar analogy, then coyly respond with "did I say something untrue?" when you object.

I disagree with Mormon theology but your attempt to smear them the same as Islam is ridiculous.


Nice deflect and attack general.



Link Posted: 5/15/2024 11:19:16 AM EDT
[#42]
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Originally Posted By eagarminuteman:
Now your attitude towards this situation makes sense.
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Experience?
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 11:20:14 AM EDT
[#43]
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Originally Posted By eagarminuteman:

Notre Dame cathedral must be forcing religion down Parisians throats since it’s big and you can see it. And how dare they build a building on property they bought.

Church buildings forcing religion down your throat sounds awfully similar the leftist claim of “words are violence” lol
View Quote


As I've travelled around the world, some of the best architecture in each culture is tied to religion. Cathedrals, shrines, temples, mosques, etc. are all man's attempt to build something to glorify God and their beliefs. I love the architecture, the artwork, the dedication, and the history tied to many of these buildings. I've never felt the need to join any religion because of their building design and prominence. I still find them really cool.

There are also a lot of very poorly done newer builds that are more reminiscent of a public county building and not a place of worship.

I really like the Provo City Center temple that was rebuilt after the old tabernacle burnt down.
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 11:20:17 AM EDT
[#44]
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Originally Posted By thedownzero:

Should the people of California not be able to collectively decide that they don’t want to live among so called “assault weapons”?
View Quote


Exhibit A for the average room temperature IQ GDer.

The constitution restricts the government from infringing on the right to keep and bear arms. Where in the constitution does it say that local government can't implement zoning laws to keep residential neighborhoods appearing a certain way?
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 11:23:26 AM EDT
[#45]
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Originally Posted By BTccw:


Experience?
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Bitterness more like it. I know plenty of people with experience with the LDS church that don’t display this much contempt for their former religion.
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 11:23:30 AM EDT
[#46]
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Originally Posted By BTccw:


Apparently you don’t have as much experience with LDS temples as I do. You can’t NOT see them…. From everywhere. That is what they are designed for…..that IS their purpose. So yeah, they are forcing their religion down my throat-and people using your argument now wish to restrict my eyesight—-


View Quote

You have no rights to the view off of your property...
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 11:24:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 80085] [#47]
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Originally Posted By Zhukov:

That is a cunning game you're trying to play with the phrasing in your argument. I could point out how some of the traits you believe in were also shared by some very unsavory group (take your pick) and then try to draw a similar analogy, then coyly respond with "did I say something untrue?" when you object.

I disagree with Mormon theology but your attempt to smear them the same as Islam is ridiculous.
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Originally Posted By Zhukov:

That is a cunning game you're trying to play with the phrasing in your argument. I could point out how some of the traits you believe in were also shared by some very unsavory group (take your pick) and then try to draw a similar analogy, then coyly respond with "did I say something untrue?" when you object.

I disagree with Mormon theology but your attempt to smear them the same as Islam is ridiculous.


I agree with you Zhukov but at the same time Joseph Smith saw himself as Muhammad so perhaps a comparison is somewhat valid for the founder of Mormonism.

In the heat of the Missouri “Mormon War” of 1838, Joseph Smith made the following claim:

“I will be to this generation a second Muhammad, whose motto in treating for peace was ‘the Alcoran [Koran] or the Sword.’ So shall it eventually be with us — ‘Joseph Smith or the Sword!’”


No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230–231

https://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2010/10/joseph-smith-i-will-be-second-mohammed.html?m=1

And completely unrelated but found in think link as a quote direct from Documentary History of the [Mormon] Church, vol.6, pp.408–409 is this gem:

“I have more to boast of than ever any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such a work as I. The followers of Jesus ran away from Him, but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.”
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 11:24:52 AM EDT
[#48]
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Originally Posted By Fushaw:


As I've travelled around the world, some of the best architecture in each culture is tied to religion. Cathedrals, shrines, temples, mosques, etc. are all man's attempt to build something to glorify God and their beliefs. I love the architecture, the artwork, the dedication, and the history tied to many of these buildings. I've never felt the need to join any religion because of their building design and prominence. I still find them really cool.

There are also a lot of very poorly done newer builds that are more reminiscent of a public county building and not a place of worship.

I really like the Provo City Center temple that was rebuilt after the old tabernacle burnt down.
View Quote

I’ve seen pictures from LDS friends. Been to Utah a handful of times and I want to see it in person. We have 3 temples within an hour of my home, and I don’t mind looking at any of them.
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 11:28:46 AM EDT
[#49]
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Originally Posted By 80085:


I agree with you Zhukov but at the same time Joseph Smith saw himself as Muhammad so perhaps a comparison is somewhat valid for the founder of Mormonism.



No Man Knows My History, second edition, (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1971), p. 230–231

https://www.johnsanidopoulos.com/2010/10/joseph-smith-i-will-be-second-mohammed.html?m=1
View Quote

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 5/15/2024 11:37:56 AM EDT
[#50]
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Originally Posted By Zhukov:

That is a cunning game you're trying to play with the phrasing in your argument. I could point out how some of the traits you believe in were also shared by some very unsavory group (take your pick) and then try to draw a similar analogy, then coyly respond with "did I say something untrue?" when you object.

I disagree with Mormon theology but your attempt to smear them the same as Islam is ridiculous.
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I hate to be the "AktshUaly" guy but...

Especially before Mormonism began reforming itself into a more mainstream organization, the comparison between Islam and Mormonism was pretty common.

If you're interested, you might want to check out the book, Mormonism: The Islam of America, originally published in 1912.

https://www.amazon.com/Mormonism-Islam-America-Bruce-Kinney/dp/B015NEM1ZY
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