We have 700lb black bears so I have to imagine there are plenty 700lb browns. They're the exception sure, no doubt.  But they're out there.

What’s the difference?

Minimum?  $10?

if I was specifically in the woods fishing or doing alot of hiking on trails, remote, no cell service, a g19 in a chest holster with FMJ's with a 12g shotgun on my back, with slugs and 00, like the mossberg shockwave.
if I was just fucking around, doing mainly human stuff with occasional pictures off the road, or etc, not really expecting anything but just to have "something", a g19 appendix
if I lived up there id have a 10mm glock, or a 44mag wheel gun, but again, id have a shotgun with any choice of sidearm if I was doing anything that involved off the beaten path stuff

thats just my experience talking with family that have lived in AK, hunted in AK and out west, and friends that do guided fishing in AK. the usual I find lately usually involves a shotgun somewhere.

This thread is not about east coast oversized raccoons (black bear).

Any difference in temperament?

Buffalo Bore has a 9mm round designed for large bears. The company owner suggests a larger caliber if you can handle it, but made this round for those that shoot 9mm often and are more comfy with it. There is a documented case of this round putting an attacking grizzly down on his website. This would be MY minimum.

About 6-700lbs.  Coastal browns gorge on salmon and pack on fat.  They generally ignore humans.  Interior bears are lean and hungry and mean.

In that case, any .35 caliber or greater center fire handgun with a deep penetrating bullet.

Stick, string with a pointy arrow is all you need.

Yeah, goofy fish eaters v apex predators. But I only lived in Alaska a few months so always willing to learn from GD

You don't have brown bear (the species) in MI. There are black bear (the species) with brown/cinnamon coats. Apologies if that's what you meant.

I'd like to discourage it from killing me.

We'll be in mostly touristy areas, but my wife is the type that says, "Ooooh, where does this trail go?"

I recall a story about a fishing guide in Alaska who killed an attacking brown bear with his 9mm S&W 3913 loaded with 9 rounds of Buffalo Bore cast loads.

Cast bullets that can penetrate deep seem to be the key.

I have a 45-70 for when we lived in bear country in Alaska.  Most hunters in Alaska do not use anything less than a magnum rifle cartridge or perhaps 45-70 for brown bear hunting.  My wife has a 30-06 as a backup gun from a bear hunt and she shoots it well, but it wouldn't be plan A for a grizzly hunt.

If I don't want to carry a long gun I feel better with bear spray.  The outcomes with bear spray are actually pretty good.

Finally I will carry a 357 with hard cast but really more for black bear country than brown bear country.  Maybe smaller lower 48 brown bears it might be ok.

I'm sure you can lethally wound a brown bear with a smaller gun, but I would not be confident in a smaller round's ability to drop one quickly or efficiently if it were riled up.

People will try to tell you that you won't have any trouble on the high-traffic tourist trails but that is not the case.  There've been tourists attacked by bears on the Mary Mountain Trail, the Elephant Back trail, in a couple of different campgrounds just outside the park, etc...
When I was in the Colter Bay campground in 2007, a young grizzly bluff-charged my friend while he was setting up to cook dinner at our campsite.

Bullet shape and construction matter more than caliber. Flat nosed FMJ penetrates deeper than round nose FMJ.  .380 ball actually penetrates deeper than 45ACP ball. Hard cast 380 penetrates an obsurd distance.

A hard cast .35-40 caliber bullet is going to behave similarly no matter the cartridge case it is fired from.

Where the “big” handguns might have an advantage is the ability to penetrate deep like a hard cast 10mm or .357 while also expanding.

I carried a Glock 20 in Alaska because it’s what I locally acquired.

I carry a 9mm in Wyoming & Montana because it’s what I prefer.

hi cap 9mm loaded w FMJ

lots of rounds.  decent penetration.  low recoil.  

everything i have read : success = multiple shots on target FAST

we're not talking HUNTING success.  we are talking DEFENSE success

That new Win 115 Gn military FMJ penetrates well

Bear spray.

I don't live in Bear Country, but I'd be comfortable carrying a GLOCK 20/29 with a 15-round magazine of 200/220 grain hard cast lead, they penetrate very deeply. But you might want an aftermarket barrel. , GLOCK's polygonal rifling doesn't work well with unjacketed bullets. If I'm choosing a revolver, I'd opt for 454 Casull. A 44 Rem Mag with cast lead is very potent, but if you're limited to 6 rounds, get more powerful rounds. Aside from that, maybe a 12-gauge with slugs, or a 358 Winchester or larger rifle, and take the sling OFF.

There are a few 800 pound Black Bears killed in North Carolina and Pennsylvania every year.

Have you been around any bears at all while hiking where you live ?

Black bears?

10mm is my choice

Rolled up news paper

Last one I scared off with a spatula waving it over my head

Sharp stick

I elk hunt around Yellowstone, and the grizzly are very aggressive up there.  Used to carry a 44mag, like everyone else.  Lately I've gone to a 10mm with Buffalo Bore ammo, because I can shoot it faster and more accurately.  I can reload it in about a second if I have to and it is easier to carry.  

Don’t overthink bear protection.  People try to achieve hunting results for bear protection and that’s dumb.  A FMJ 9mm will stop a bear just as fast as 44 mag

You want DRT 12 ga slug.

Realistically, with any handgun, be it 44, 460, or 9mm, etc, the only way you're going to stop cold a bear (of any size) is to damage its central nervous system.  Basically a head or spine shot.     Handguns just don't deliver the kind of damage that high powered hunting rifles do.  

So it's a controversial opinion, but my opinion is that all handguns are woefully inadequate for the task of killing bears, but a 9mm with a flat nose hard cast bullet or similar very deep penetrating bullet is not substantially more inadequate than a 10mm or 44 or whatever else.

10mm handgun for me. Keep a shotgun with slugs in camp.

Not for the bear, but for the knee of the person you're with?

All cases have been researched and verified.......

https://www.ammoland.com/2022/04/update-of-pistol-defenses-against-bears-123-cases-98-effective/#axzz8Euifa9bp

While a 9mm might work to discourage most anything, I'd want more if going into brown bear country for say a back pack trip or hunting.

10mm is overall best due to penetration and number of rounds per mag. I'd use extreme penetrators or hard cast lead. Can get a 10mm conversion barrel for Glock 21 if you have one.

45 super (or SMC) can be used in your 45cal pistol if it has a fully supported chamber (might want to upgrade recoil spring, possibly add a compensator.) So just get another barrel if necessary. Fewer rounds per mag than 10mm, but about equal energy (maybe less cross sectional energy.) 460 Roland gets to be an expensive setup, but even better.

I think those are better than the revolver choice, though some will think revolvers are less prone to jamming. Kinda heavy though, for back packing. Plus you need a whole new, expensive gun vs a new barrel for your Glock 21, let's say (or no change for your HK USP 45).

I'd want a lot of rounds to account for misses or warning shots, or the bear continuing to 'bear' down on you. More shots on target equals faster incapacitation. And they have to be able to penetrate. Normal 45 acp is not adequate for reliable skull penetration of a big brown bear.

If using smaller calibers, aim for the fatal T zone to get skull penetration, as the skull is thinner at the eye sockets and nasal cavities. 9mm and smaller could work there if you were lucky enough to get such a hit on a charging bear (tough shot).

Whatever one uses, really needs to be super accessible, like in a chest harness or on your hip, because the bear can be on you in a split second, leaping out of nearby brush. Videos I've seen go down scary fast.

If two people are hiking, one could use bear spray as a first line of defense while the second has a gun out.  Personally, I'm shooting if the bear is charging close, bluff or no bluff.

For bear spray, instructional videos I've seen say, as the bear is charging, to spray a cloud in the region between you and the bear, so the cloud may be accumulating at 15' while the bear is at the 20' mark and closing fast. Basically, don't wait till the bear is 15 feet away, as it will be too late to stop the charge. And don't stop spraying. Don't do half second bursts (hopefully your friend has another can too, ha).

It gets hard to decide whether it's a brownie or a Grizzly in BC, until you get uncomfortably close.

.357 mag will do the job though, so I have been told
I have taken one with a .303 and I quit hunting after that. Fucker stalked me and charged me.

Not a handgun but my great great uncle used a 303 British living in Alaska his whole life to kill bears

He was a WW1 veteran and a WW2 veteran

Infantry and he used the SMLE that was issued to him in the Great War.  He was in the US 30th infantry division which was attached to the British and equipped with British equipment

He had no problem killing any bear to include the Kodiak brown bears with the 303

Shot placement is everything.  He was a crack shot with nerves of steel after being in the world wars.

He killed hundreds of bears from 1920 until his death in 1992

There wasn’t much regulation on hunting bears in Alaska until the 70s I think.

There're grizzlies that are just as big as the average coastal brownie..Big male browns get pushed off the rivers by younger males often and end up pushing inland and mating with grizzly sows..happens all the time, and you end up with a huge grizzly that looks identical to a grizzly but is bigger..I know because I have one laying on my bed, he squared 9'2"...huge by grizzly standards, but average for a brownie...There are several visual differences between them, browns have a more square wide head, grizzlies square but more longer...browns generally have 1 color of brown for fur, a grizzly can go from almost black on the legs to dark brown to almost blond on their hump and back..A browns coat is pretty short at 2" to 3"on average, where a grizzly may have fur up to 6" or more longer especially around their neck...When it comes to getting trophy scored, grizzly and coastal browns get scored together, the island browns such as the kodiak are scored separate...

One thing folks overlook on their woods guns is a weapon light.

Yeah, yeah.  I know it's light out 24/7 for a bit in AK.
But there's a lot of darkness too.

I keep a G20 w/ TLR1HL on my chest at all times in the woods.

Don't forget to practice. Shit happens fast innawoods.

Meh, my big grizzly we  estimated went 650 pds fresh from the den in the spring...F&G head bear biologist who sealed it, estimated it would have gone 1,000 to 1200 pounds in the fall..that for a 5 year old boar...bears reach adulthood at 8 years old....

These 2 bears, one an obvious grizzly by markings, skull shape, and fur at 5 years old was a foot larger than the brownie we took..both came off the same ridge line fresh from their dens that were less than 3 miles apart 2 years apart....The brownie aged to 13 years old, and he showed the scars of lots of fights...

Attached File



Attached File

Knowledge and intelligence in a bear thread? Get out!

Everyone knows 105mm is the minimum caliber you need.

The glock 40 is the longslide 10mm. The reply was saying that 10mm and 454 aren't comparable because 357 can surpass 10mm.

Full auto reciprocating barreled 50 BMG or it's your funeral..

This.  

Who wants minimum, with something that can kill you, I doubt you ever hear "what's the minimum"?

I hate glocks, but that would be my set up if I had to deal with AK sized bears.

I dont see talked about often is light.  My encounter with a black bear happened at night.  My GSD picked it up and ran out from under the tarp we were sleeping under.  Distance was close enough I was going to shoot as soon as my dog got out of the way.  I had on a headlamp and my pistol had a TLR-1 that I flipped on and kept pointed at the bears eyes.  It seemed the bear was having a hard time seeing me or even maybe my dog and kept trying to circle until it gave up and ran off.  This was mid winter, cold enough the bears are usually hibernating.  I'd put money on that bear having a go at me if my dog hadnt alerted me to what I thought was a squirrel about 30 yards away.  Turns out bears are much quieter despite their size and was inside 30 feet away when I saw it first.  I just would not have had much time to react, though I did have my pistol on my chest and sleeping bag unzipped.

ETA:

Ideally I'd bring my 870.  Its got a light, a four round side saddle, and a sling.  It takes care of a lot of the four legged pest problems for me here.  Legally it gets to be a shit show having a loaded long gun in a car, or if you cant take it somewhere theft becomes a concern.  Ideally though I'd like a long gun with me away from home.  Who knows  the house could burn down or get broken into and it could be an egg outside that basket.  Shotgun plus handgun set up to CCW FTW.

9mm underwood or buffalo bore +p hardcast

Someone needs to convince met that 9mm +p hardcast can't penetrate through a bear's skull or shoulder. Everything I've seen says it will.

That said my woods gun is a 40cal loaded with hardcast.

Lots of cases with spray and gun, but no time to use them as well.

Todd Orr years ago, the mauling in Big Sky this year. A sidearm isn’t a guarantee either.

This is a good point. When I'm in the woods I also always have a fixed blade knife on my belt that I can grab with either hand. If the spray and the gun don't work I want to be able to stab whatever is physically on top of me.

If a mountain lion attacks you, you probably won't know about the attack until you're on the ground and it's trying to bite your neck. At that point in time I doubt your gun will be useful. A knife you can get to might improve your odds from none to slim at that point.